Now that Arcadion is out, it's time to talk about gap closers that still have damage

The third fight is filled with dashes that require the use of a gap closer. Many jobs have had the damage component of their gap closers removed to encourage their intended use for utility. However, some jobs still retain damage on their gap closers, which promotes their use for damage rather than utility.

This discrepancy creates a significant advantage for the jobs whose gap closers no longer deal damage, as they can freely use these abilities for their intended purpose without sacrificing DPS. It's clear that the developers recognize this issue, as evidenced by the removal of damage from most jobs' gap closers, similar to what they did with stun and silence abilities in the past.

Please extend this change to the remaining jobs. If there's a need for low potency OGCDs to spam, introduce new OGCDs for that purpose. Don't force us to use utility abilities for damage.

i miss rough divide...

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Originally Posted by Zomkei

i miss rough divide...

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I miss gap closers with flavor in general. GNB, DRK, and DRG now all just glide along the floor to the target.

If you know there’s a movement heavy section don’t use your gap closer in burst. Ffs why would you out yourself like this? Any potential gain from using them under buffs is immediately lost by losing 2/3 of a gcd. Shadowstroll and tragictory are both so unresponsive compared to how plunge and rough divide were too.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

If you know there’s a movement heavy section don’t use your gap closer in burst. Ffs why would you out yourself like this? Any potential gain from using them under buffs is immediately lost by losing 2/3 of a gcd. Shadowstroll and tragictory are both so unresponsive compared to how plunge and rough divide were too.

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Bad take IMO. It's just jank.

What do you if there's a mechanic coming up that requires 2 dashes? Sit on stacks and potentially miss a usage?

There is literally 0 advantage to tethering movement utility to damage rotation. Separating them just makes sense.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Bad take IMO. It's just jank.

What do you if there's a mechanic coming up that requires 2 dashes? Sit on stacks and potentially miss a usage?

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..Yeah?
I mean the damage loss of losing a GCD is bigger.
You guarantee missing a GCD, with more potency to begin with, or you could ''potentially'' lose 150 dash potency depending on the kill time.
Besides, double gapcloser mechanics are rare anyways.

This thread here is the root of the Job homogenization problem that this game has and, because of this kind of takes, will ever have.
The obsession for pointing out discrepancies and requesting for perfect balance has hugely damaged the gameplay during the last years and will mark its end one day from a gameplay perspective.

It's poor design. If every job had damage on gap closers, fine. But some do and some don't (and even more don't now that DT has changed most of them). That's the problem.

oh no we have a desicion to make when to use it, how terrible.

today this and tomorrow a bunch of people will complain about job diversity. and they wish for differences between the jobs

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

It's poor design. If every job had damage on gap closers, fine. But some do and some don't (and even more don't now that DT has changed most of them). That's the problem.

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It's not poor design at all. Everything being the same is lazy design however.
Having variety of gameplay in different jobs is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

oh no we have a desicion to make when to use it, how terrible.

today this and tomorrow a bunch of people will complain about job diversity. and they wish for differences between the jobs

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I don't think the people who want everything to feel like you are fighting a training dummy and the people who want the jobs to be remotely fun or unique are generally the same people.

You'll have to take Onslaught from my cold, dead hands.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

..Yeah?
I mean the damage loss of losing a GCD is bigger.
You guarantee missing a GCD, with more potency to begin with, or you could ''potentially'' lose 150 dash potency depending on the kill time.
Besides, double gapcloser mechanics are rare anyways.

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No, actually. You never sit on stacks but simply suck up the loss and use your range GCD (Unmend/Tomahawk and etc). Well, at least you wouldn't. Now that DRK and GNB's no longer deal damage, you can sit on them all you want.

I feel like I'm watching a nature documentary.

"And here we have the Spotted Skill Issue."

We've been wondering who SE has been dumbing every job down for. It's a pleasure to meet you. Can you tell SE to fix Viera and Hrothgar while you have their ear?

People here are so toxic, they are bringing up an issue where some jobs have a dps loss enforced on them and some don't.
That is a legitimate issue, a small one for sure that will only stop you from reaching top 100 on fflogs or w/e, but is still an issue.

The devs can fix this without removing damage from the gap closers, for example, they can make sure that you would only need to save one stack of a gap closer at a time when designing encounters.
This will make having 2 stacks redundant unless you fuck up, but there you go, some jobs will have more damage, some jobs will have an additional utility against fuck-upary.

I dont understand why so many people are just mindlessly hating on every opinion that even slightly goes against their own, you can both be right and have a middle ground solution.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

No, actually. You never sit on stacks but simply suck up the loss and use your range GCD (Unmend/Tomahawk and etc). Well, at least you wouldn't. Now that DRK and GNB's no longer deal damage, you can sit on them all you want.

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The context is a double gapcloser mechanic.
Which, again, are rare to begin with.

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Originally Posted by DaveFishnomer

I dont understand why so many people are just mindlessly hating on every opinion that even slightly goes against their own, you can both be right and have a middle ground solution.

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Because, as you have already admitted, this is a small issue (if we can even call it an issue) and we shouldn't endure job homogenization because oh no, what about my gold parse.

There are jobs with no damage gap closers, no one is stopping you guys from playing them.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Because, as you have already admitted, this is a small issue (if we can even call it an issue) and we shouldn't endure job homogenization because oh no, what about my gold parse.

There are jobs with no damage gap closers, no one is stopping you guys from playing them.

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Here we go again, if you dont agree with me go play something else, until it's a change to job you like and than rage thread commence.

I'm more sad that we lost DRK's cool Plunge animation and confused as to why DRG's new movement tool isn't a jump. (◍´͈ꈊ`͈◍)

You can choose not to use it in the opener if you need to you know

They're not forcing you to use it in the opener

You can decide "I lose more potency from clipping later by using the gap closer in my opener"

You do not need them to bend how the game works so that you are barred from making a decision you could just be making.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I'm more sad that we lost DRK's cool Plunge animation and confused as to why DRG's new movement tool isn't a jump. (◍´͈ꈊ`͈◍)

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So that they could use the same animation for 3 jobs, but I don't know why they did that instead of just removing the potency and keeping the skills the same otherwise.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Because, as you have already admitted, this is a small issue (if we can even call it an issue) and we shouldn't endure job homogenization because oh no, what about my gold parse.

There are jobs with no damage gap closers, no one is stopping you guys from playing them.

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The middle ground would have been leaving the damn gap closers alone, and letting people with skill optimize them, while players without didn't.

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Originally Posted by DaveFishnomer

Here we go again, if you dont agree with me go play something else, until it's a change to job you like and than rage thread commence.

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I'm not the one asking to make every job the same. If you don't like something, the game offers you options. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I'm more sad that we lost DRK's cool Plunge animation and confused as to why DRG's new movement tool isn't a jump. (◍´͈ꈊ`͈◍)

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To be honest this still blows my mind, hear me out (this coming from a non dragoon player):

Ninja-> drops smoke bomb and teleports to spot, or literally becomes a lightning cat and pounces target
Samurai -> runs and unsheats sword
Red Mage-> magic whips and stabs target
Monk -> literally raging demons target

Why the hell cant dragoon just jump to target like PVP LB in fact just have it animate like the pvp LB but instantly

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Originally Posted by Gilihere

To be honest this still blows my mind, hear me out (this coming from a non dragoon player):

Ninja-> drops smoke bomb and teleports to spot, or literally becomes a lightning cat and pounces target
Samurai -> runs and unsheats sword
Red Mage-> magic whips and stabs target
Monk -> literally raging demons target

Why the hell cant dragoon just jump to target like PVP LB in fact just have it animate like the pvp LB but instantly

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I like the idea of an inverse elusive jump type of animation where they flip or do a proper long jump instead of just an awkward hover across the ground. Like at least give it some flavor for the different jobs lmao.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I'm more sad that we lost DRK's cool Plunge animation and confused as to why DRG's new movement tool isn't a jump. (◍´͈ꈊ`͈◍)

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I mean they constantly take away abilities from this class, every expansion.

Now the toin coss is:
Which one out of Abyssal Drain or Carve and Split will go away first next time.
Or maybe both at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

I mean they constantly take away abilities from this class, every expansion.

Now the toin coss is:
Which one out of Abyssal Drain or Carve and Split will go away first next time.
Or maybe both at the same time?

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Carve and Spit turning into Abyssal Drain after using Delirium is my guess.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

So that they could use the same animation for 3 jobs, but I don't know why they did that instead of just removing the potency and keeping the skills the same otherwise.

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I would of just turned Plunge into a GCD Weaponskill, that way it's only good as a gap-closer. Maybe combo it with Unmend for flavor and increase the "Flood of..." and "Edge of..." abilities range to 20 for weaving in between the two? (I haven't played DRK since ShB, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I can't even remember if "Flood of..." and "Edge of.." are your spam abilities or not. ٩( ᗒᗨᗕ )۶)

Bring back plunge!

I still feel so neutered as a Dragoon without my Spineshatter Dive.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

So that they could use the same animation for 3 jobs, but I don't know why they did that instead of just removing the potency and keeping the skills the same otherwise.

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Probably due to animation dissonance between animation vs effect.

Rough divide is a bit more subtle in its animation, but plunge has you arc through the air and slam a huge greatsword down on the target. For it to do 0 damage would just look -extremely- silly on a perceptional level.
Although they changed the dashes to give a bit of aggro now on the tanks, it would have looked even more silly for you to slam a greatsword down on the target and then the enemy doesn't even recognize your presence.

I may not like it, but from a design perspective its easy to see why they did it. I've seen plenty of animation dissonance complaints from people in other games.