Why not fixing NetCode instead of Graphical update?

Why not fixing NetCode instead of Graphical update?

I mean it cause a lot of delay that I know some people are used to it but it is a major thing in gameplay

if it fixed we can add parry + quick events that will make gameplay more interesting

Something like a graphics update is immediately visible, which makes it easier to quickly catch someone's attention while marketing. It's also much, much easier than a gameplay and infrastructure overhaul, especially with how fundamentally terrible XIV's infrastructure has been since day 1 of 1.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

if it fixed we can add parry

---

I hope you understand that the game is never going to become an action game, no matter how much netcode you improve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garnix

I hope you understand that the game is never going to become an action game, no matter how much netcode you improve.

---

"Parry" skill isn't action or anything..

the issue is when you press a button it will be activated after short time that called "lag" and "Responsiveness"
yes welcome to online gaming

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daralii

Something like a graphics update is immediately visible, which makes it easier to quickly catch someone's attention while marketing. It's also much, much easier than a gameplay and infrastructure overhaul, especially with how fundamentally terrible XIV's infrastructure has been since day 1 of 1.0.

---

I think they got enough resources after the pandemic to not change the gameplay but to reduce the lag between pressing ability and activate it.

I know it will cause overhaul of some code in the game..
but they did it in shadowbringer when they change ALL tanks and healers gameplay..

why not now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

I think they got enough resources after the pandemic to not change the gameplay but to reduce the lag between pressing ability and activate it.

---

You don't know that.

Do you know how much money is actually allocated to FF14? How much money is left after allowing ressources to what needs to be developped? (Future expansion, raid, jobs, music, art, events, etc etc etc). Maybe very little is left... Maybe they don't even have enough for everything they'd like to do... maybe they have a lot left which leads to the next question.

"How much would it cost". Do you know? We know it's a mess, we know it'd be "a lot", but how much "a lot".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

I know it will cause overhaul of some code in the game..
but they did it in shadowbringer when they change ALL tanks and healers gameplay..
why not now?

---

Exactly, why?
Perhaps because that part was easier to fix?
Perhaps the matter was much more pressing and enough money was allowed then but it isn't anymore.
Perhaps there's a risk of making things worse from unsuspected interaction in the spaghetti code.

Or simply they feel it's good enough and that improving it further would just be a waste of money.

And yes, it can be a waste of money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

You don't know that.

Do you know how much money is actually allocated to FF14? How much money is left after allowing ressources to what needs to be developped? (Future expansion, raid, jobs, music, art, events, etc etc etc). Maybe very little is left... Maybe they don't even have enough for everything they'd like to do... maybe they have a lot left which leads to the next question.

"How much would it cost". Do you know? We know it's a mess, we know it'd be "a lot", but how much "a lot".

---

You know, while I understand the logistics of "You need money to fix the game", I'm failing to see how that's my problem as a customer. And after several expansions of the same excuses (1.0 spaghetti code, lack of resources, etc), I have no sympathy left for the condition they've left the game in. Leveling Picto during EA was a massive eye opener for just how terrible the net code is. Look at this skill you can't use while out of combat. Also, it's going to take an entire GCD plus for the game to realize you're in combat, AFTER you hit the mob.

And now I'm seeing poor Elezens in another thread, wearing helmets that just straight up delete their ears, while Viera... can't wear hats because of their ears?

And now with DT's obvious lack of polish, or direction, or, well, much of anything... Nope. Done with their excuses. Done with their lack of resources somehow being my problem as a consumer. Fix the damned game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

You don't know that.

Do you know how much money is actually allocated to FF14? How much money is left after allowing ressources to what needs to be developped? (Future expansion, raid, jobs, music, art, events, etc etc etc). Maybe very little is left... Maybe they don't even have enough for everything they'd like to do... maybe they have a lot left which leads to the next question.

"How much would it cost". Do you know? We know it's a mess, we know it'd be "a lot", but how much "a lot".



Exactly, why?
Perhaps because that part was easier to fix?
Perhaps the matter was much more pressing and enough money was allowed then but it isn't anymore.
Perhaps there's a risk of making things worse from unsuspected interaction in the spaghetti code.

Or simply they feel it's good enough and that improving it further would just be a waste of money.

And yes, it can be a waste of money.

---

1- Do you know how to read financial statements?

go so square enix financial statements in 2019 - 2020 - 2021 and read that or hire someone who can read that..

the game single handedly carry the whole company financially..

2- you don't have to be genius to read through it if you got a simple explanation
game is subscription base (12$)
game is making people buying their expansions (30$)
mog station
over 30 million player base.
If you know 1+1=2 you would know they make money enough to fix game netcode.

...The netcode feels fine? Maybe get better internet tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xurtan

...The netcode feels fine? Maybe get better internet tbh.

---

why not explaining to us what is netcode?
maybe you understand it wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xurtan

...The netcode feels fine? Maybe get better internet tbh.

---

This is 100% a known issue. The netcode for FFXIV has always been hot garbage outside of Japan.
Nothing to do with internet.

instant like for me. this this this please this ffs this.

Completely different areas of specialization. Rendering engineers ain't gonna fix the netcode.

It does need to be fixed though. I'm tired that the game pretends to be an action game and telegraphs things to tell you "dodge this!" and you still eat the aoe even though you moved outside of the telegraph half an hour before the hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

And now with DT's obvious lack of polish, or direction, or, well, much of anything... Nope. Done with their excuses. Done with their lack of resources somehow being my problem as a consumer. Fix the damned game.

---

It is honestly this.
Every companies goal is to make money. "Logically" the best thing any company can do is sell the cheapest product for the highest price possible
None of us here work for SE, none of us are the CEO- nobody here gets anything out of making excuses or reasons why it shouldn't be criticized or something should be given a pass

It's our single role as a consumer to continue pressuring them to improve, always

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taliriah

Completely different areas of specialization. Rendering engineers ain't gonna fix the netcode.

It does need to be fixed though. I'm tired that the game pretends to be an action game and telegraphs things to tell you "dodge this!" and you still eat the aoe even though you moved outside of the telegraph half an hour before the hit.

---

VPR could be much more better job if there is actual fix for netcode
PVP will be immediate popular game mode
raids will be more interesting and actually test people reaction more often in very different ways

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cutestfox

It is honestly this.
Every companies goal is to make money. "Logically" the best thing any company can do is sell the cheapest product for the highest price possible
None of us here work for SE, none of us are the CEO- nobody here gets anything out of making excuses or reasons why it shouldn't be criticized or something should be given a pass

It's our single role as a consumer to continue pressuring them to improve, always

---

Dawntrail has 90 issues and 10 positives..
the idea that "they don't have money" is so silly and uneducated thing to say..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cutestfox

It is honestly this.
Every companies goal is to make money. "Logically" the best thing any company can do is sell the cheapest product for the highest price possible
None of us here work for SE, none of us are the CEO- nobody here gets anything out of making excuses or reasons why it shouldn't be criticized or something should be given a pass

It's our single role as a consumer to continue pressuring them to improve, always

---

They're busy using XIV's income to make games that can't recoup their development costs. I don't think SE's had anything else they consider a success since the first game of the ∞-part FF7 sequel-remake series.

Ok, netcode is not the best if you don't live near a server but it aint that bad except if your routing is crap to begin with.

That said, unequivocally this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daralii

They're busy using XIV's income to make games that can't recoup their development costs.

---

hell even uncle Yoshi tells us to go play other games (preferably SQE games and keep your ffxiv subs up).
As a business having a diverse portfolio is important, and lets not forget that all the money is pooled and redistributed accordingly. If I ever see news that SQE is refactoring the netcode and increasing the budget of FFXIV, I'd believe that they were really in the verge of bankrupcy tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilihere

Ok, netcode is not the best if you don't live near a server but it aint that bad except if your routing is crap to begin with.

That said, unequivocally this:


hell even uncle Yoshi tells us to go play other games (preferably SQE games and keep your ffxiv subs up).
As a business having a diverse portfolio is important, and lets not forget that all the money is pooled and redistributed accordingly. If I ever see news that SQE is refactoring the netcode and increasing the budget of FFXIV, I'd believe that they were really in the verge of bankrupcy tbh.

---

I don't think you understand what is Netcode is and why it is bad.. there is a clear delay when pressing button and when activate it I play very compatitive online games with no issue never face issue unless I play FFXIV.. and many of my friends that live in USA have these issues..

don't act like this is not an issue from the "code" and put the blame on service providers.. which is a bad argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daralii

They're busy using XIV's income to make games that can't recoup their development costs. I don't think SE's had anything else they consider a success since the first game of the ∞-part FF7 sequel-remake series.

---

wasting money on NFTs crap is very disappointed to see..
people who is making these choices are not even gamer.. looking for trends to waste money on project that will neve please anyone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

I don't think you understand what is Netcode is and why it is bad.. there is a clear delay when pressing button and when activate it I play very compatitive online games with no issue never face issue unless I play FFXIV.. and many of my friends that live in USA have these issues..

don't act like this is not an issue from the "code" and put the blame on service providers.. which is a bad argument.

---

That in of itself is not always a netcode issue. Many abilities have animation locks, in which the ability is coded to go off AFTER the animation completes. This has been something SE has been steadily moving away from, but has not done so entirely. DRG jumps used to be the epitome of animation lock issues. PLD Hallowed Ground and WHM Benediction are as well. It's just how the ability itself is designed, which would be a separate request to fix and should have been fixed long ago.

Yes the game has netcode issues, though there may well be a reason it hasn't been fixed. It could be that the work to fix it is too much, as others have said we won't know until SE actually tells us. That said, I am for one all for a netcode improvement but I also know that the people responsible for graphical improvement, job design, and other things are not the people in charge of netcode. That's a separate area altogether.

I would also note that many Japanese gaming companies have terrible netcode designs as much of their designs seem to be a bit outdated. Of course that is pure conjecture based on limited personal evidence, but it very well could be they don't see an issue with it at all because that's the norm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vrankyl

That in of itself is not always a netcode issue. Many abilities have animation locks, in which the ability is coded to go off AFTER the animation completes. This has been something SE has been steadily moving away from, but has not done so entirely. DRG jumps used to be the epitome of animation lock issues. PLD Hallowed Ground and WHM Benediction are as well. It's just how the ability itself is designed, which would be a separate request to fix and should have been fixed long ago.

Yes the game has netcode issues, though there may well be a reason it hasn't been fixed. It could be that the work to fix it is too much, as others have said we won't know until SE actually tells us. That said, I am for one all for a netcode improvement but I also know that the people responsible for graphical improvement, job design, and other things are not the people in charge of netcode. That's a separate area altogether.

I would also note that many Japanese gaming companies have terrible netcode designs as much of their designs seem to be a bit outdated. Of course that is pure conjecture based on limited personal evidence, but it very well could be they don't see an issue with it at all because that's the norm.

---

At least some abilities that do multiple things also do so on different server ticks. I don't know if this was ever changed, but the way Superbolide worked in 5.0 was to bring you to 1 HP and then apply the invulnerability on the next tick, so it was possible to get unlucky and kill yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

The reason why FFXIV dev won't fix the netcode is probably because the netcode is hardest part to fix (this is the main reason why most online games netcode never gets fixed) when just fixing the netcode, it would require making massive amount of changes to the game code too.

If real parry system and quick time events gets added to the FFXIV then i will stop playing FFXIV completely because i simply hate quick time events which is the main reason why i simply hate games like Tomb Raider (2013) that are filled with quick time events and i don't like parry systems either because my reaction time is so bad that almost always i use parry too late.

---

I agree.. it is the hardest but the most rewarding one

but the delay is beyond bad in FFXIV it cannot be compared with other online games even from japan,

Not all games failed to provide Parry-like,
the idea even if parry-like abilities will not to be added,
the delay is so noticeable and frustrating

As some people mentioned in this thread already, the delay issue isnt in the netcode, they're animation locks

As to why SE isnt able to change them yet, we don't know, but thankfully FFXIV isnt really that tight on reaction stuff and more about memorizing mechanics and anticipating them

The low tick rate of the server is very noticeable in PvP.

To be fair the graphical update was much needed, I don't want to be jumpscared by tree leaves ever again.

If the netcode could be improve it would be nice, I'd like to have the japanese triple weaving as well.
Thought we've got used to it for so long and learned to play around, it would throw off so many players.

People have been asking for a fix to this for over a decade. It is most noticeable with ogcd weaving and player position updating. CBU3 has never shown that they even care in the slightest that this issue exists and they likely never will.
Here is a link to a thread that has complied some very detailed threads about the the issue. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...tcode-of-FFXIV
Some of the links in that thread are a decade old.

square enix is a really bad company. ffxiv is literally the only product keeping them afloat. and what to they do in return? milk it and neglect it.

maybe CBU III should just go solo and leave the president of SE to go play with his crypto bs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EponaTBHSMH

As some people mentioned in this thread already, the delay issue isnt in the netcode, they're animation locks

As to why SE isnt able to change them yet, we don't know, but thankfully FFXIV isnt really that tight on reaction stuff and more about memorizing mechanics and anticipating them

---

So yes technically the main culprit is not the netcode but it doesn't help with other issues.
The netcode has a 100ms delay on it (as per SE back in ARR). It was brought down from 200ms back at the beginning of ARR. So if you have like 100-200ms, it's actually 200-300ms with the netcode.
Then there's the issue of actions going through via the server side of things while the animations are on the clients side. The ms issue on top of server/client not lining up makes this a really bad system for new players. It's not as noticeable for most of us who have played it forever since we conditioned ourselves to deal with it.

I'm no expert so that may not be the best way to describe it but essentially it narrows down to this.

I hope it's their next priority. I'm hoping stuff like the one new expert dungeon and the Fall Guys event bringing attention to how much of a delay certain things have helps. Though as much as I love parries in action games, I'm not sure it really fits into the flow of FF14's combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

So yes technically the main culprit is not the netcode but it doesn't help with other issues.
The netcode has a 100ms delay on it (as per SE back in ARR). It was brought down from 200ms back at the beginning of ARR. So if you have like 100-200ms, it's actually 200-300ms with the netcode.
Then there's the issue of actions going through via the server side of things while the animations are on the clients side. The ms issue on top of server/client not lining up makes this a really bad system for new players. It's not as noticeable for most of us who have played it forever since we conditioned ourselves to deal with it.

I'm no expert so that may not be the best way to describe it but essentially it narrows down to this.

---

There is no excuse for action delay for any online game..
As someone who play competitive online games with under 20ms I feel like I am playing the game on slow motion..
I really have to plan things out before pressing for example invul or heals to counter the server tick issue..

being a known issue since 2013 it is not showing a thing but careless of SE management..

I believe developers are doing their best to keep this issue unnoticeable but it is noticeable

You're overthinking it.

The amount of people that care about netcode: ----
The amount of people that care about graphics: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://media.tenor.com/2v3vB-f1uxwA...m-dynamite.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

You're overthinking it.

The amount of people that care about netcode: ----
The amount of people that care about graphics: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://media.tenor.com/2v3vB-f1uxwA...m-dynamite.gif

---

If you do a pool and see of how people are effected by graphic update it will show that it effect 10% or 20% of their enjoyment

but fixing server lag and tick will affect everything.. job design.. fights.. boss.. raids.. mechanics.. and I am sure that all raiders will feel soo appreciated even casual gamers who got hit by AoE that they shouldn't get hit by

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angienessyo

I hope it's their next priority. I'm hoping stuff like the one new expert dungeon and the Fall Guys event bringing attention to how much of a delay certain things have helps. Though as much as I love parries in action games, I'm not sure it really fits into the flow of FF14's combat.

---

specially playing ninja is so painful.. I have latterly learn how to avoid server tick issue with ninja to maximize my damage in raids.. but why?