Seraphism as an upgrade to Dissipation

With how ridiculous button bloat has become, especially when it comes to healing buttons we don't need, I think it would have made more sense for Seraphism to become what everyone initially thought it would be which was an upgrade to Dissipation. I mean, how cool would it be if, instead of eating our fairy, we fuse with her? It would actually be a simple process that wouldn't take up too much time for 8.0:

Step 1: Make it FAIRY THEMED. Just give us a pair of nice fairy wings and that will be more than enough for us in the identity department. Have the new name be Fey Trance.

Step 2: Make the changes to Adlo and Concit mostly cosmetic; keep the potencies the same but let it be instant cast to further help lean into the heal magic buff. This will keep the ability balanced for Recitation.

Step 3: Remove the passive regen and Emergency Tactics reset. This will also be for balance purposes. Seraphism is just absurd with how much healing it can belt out in a few GCDs because of this. Scholar already has a 60 second CD on Recitation; I don't think we need this much. LOL

Edit:

Step 4: Still lock the Scholar out of Fairy abilities. Turn Adloquium into True Embrace and turn Concitation into True Blessing, again keeping the change purely aesthetic just to drive the idea home.

I can count probably on one hand how many times I've used dissipation for emergency aetherflow instead of just for more energy drains. Dissipation is a bad ability, but only because energy drain is one of the most garbage designs in the game.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

I can count probably on one hand how many times I've used dissipation for emergency aetherflow instead of just for more energy drains. Dissipation is a bad ability, but only because energy drain is one of the most garbage designs in the game.

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here we go again....

the catboy and roeg should comment soon enough to tell you how amazing of a design this ability is.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

here we go again....

the catboy and roeg should comment soon enough to tell you how amazing of a design this ability is.

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I will admit, I too have been too mean to Dissipation and never pressed it until I started viewing it as an emergency/optimization tool. Not being afraid to use it fairly regularly since it dismisses your fairy made me realize just how versatile it is. It really helps bring out the job's decision making playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

here we go again....

the catboy and roeg should comment soon enough to tell you how amazing of a design this ability is.

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At least you can say we're consistent ;D

My personal conspiracy theory is that they're SHB summonerifying Scholar. Giving it so much button bloat and awkwardness to manage but making it objectively the most overpowered healer in the game so it attracts new players to complain about it being a mess so they can do an Endwalker esque rework of scholar and fully kill the pet management from the game.

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

I will admit, I too have been too mean to Dissipation and never pressed it until I started viewing it as an emergency/optimization tool. Not being afraid to use it fairly regularly since it dismisses your fairy made me realize just how versatile it is. It really helps bring out the job's decision making playstyle.

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Imo the issue isn't really what it does, it's more that it doesn't do enough because what it gives doesn't interact properly with the rest of the kit.



The idea of trading your fairy for more personal power is fine, it's just that the current numbers feel lack lusters, you get very little bang for your buck basically.

The most common usage are increased deploy and extra dps at the opener.
There are many situation where if you not only need deploy, but would like the extra 20%, then most likely the extra fluff the fairy could provide would be welcomed. this is made either impossible or more difficult to achieve because of the 30s duration.
While it has its use, and 20% extra potency on a critlo is nothing to scough at, we're still talking about a 3min CD here with a downside...
When it comes to the DPS, we're talking about a 300potency gain every 3min requiring 4 weaves, at the usual cost of loosing your fairy for 30s.

Again, very little gain for the cost and CD category here... 300 potency isn't even a single broil, and obviously this is getting worse expansion after expansion as broil potency keeps going up but not ED.

Finally, if you are to use it for healing (as to use dome, indom or excog), then the fact that it is still 20% spell and not just healing actions feels bad. 90% of our healing comes from abilities, yet the one skill meant to give your more abilities usage boosts the remaining 10%. Which can be useful! It sure was on DSR last phase. But a skill should be more usefull than in a nich scenario.

Also, if you were to use it on Excog, Indom or SS, the odds are some of those would be on CD. Basically, 3 AF in 1 go is just overall too much and will see little use. You might be able to use 1 or 2 before your next AF comes off cd. Making for instance Rizomata a much better tool in this regard. There are many instances where 1 extra AF or Addersgall would be useful. Very few where 3 in 1 go would be. And obviously at no extra cost.

Then there's the "no fairy no gauge" issue. People often say "it doesn't matter the gauge is useless". But it does matter, the gauge being useless is irrelevant. It is again part of the whole "it takes and give back very little". You get 3 AF which should give you some other ressource upon use, but you don't get it. The skill doing many things which contradict each others.

You might consider it is still a very strong skill but if some tough healing check are coming, the odds are that Seraphism, Lillybell, Macrocosm or Phylosophia would have a bigger impact than 20% on your critlo or 1 extra broil.

In all honestly, if you were to compair dissipation with every other ability, as to "which one would you rather have for an encounter". When would you pick dissipation? Aetherpact, Lustrate, Emergency Tactic, Physick... So basically the 3-4 skills who've been gathering dust...(most being single target because tank take 0 dmg 90% of the time)

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

Not being afraid to use it fairly regularly since it dismisses your fairy made me realize just how versatile it is. It really helps bring out the job's decision making playstyle.

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It is versatile, and it does bring out the job decision making playstyle, that is not the issue. I love the idea behind the skill. The whole trade-off thing
The issue is that it brings very little for its CD and cost and it feels that there's no cohesion in the skill.

You shouldn't need an extensive scholar experience in endgame just to start "seeing" its potential.

Hi yes the catboi is here to tell you that dissipation is a fantastically designed skill and I don’t want it to upgrade into the ugly wedding dress rip off (side note I will actually give some points to Seraphism here that I didn’t originally anticipate in that I think it’s fantastic design that Seraphism soft conflicts with recitation, that is good design)

But anyway back to dissipation. Dissipation should stay as it is because it’s arguably the strongest CD any healer has and that’s because it’s the only skill that regenerates your entire gauge when you need it, WHM can generate no extra lilys at all and SGE only gets one from rhizomata. Dissipation gives you 3 extra charges, assuming you use them on three extra skills, that’s a sacred soil, an indom and an excog you can throw out just by holding dissipation till you want to use it, and you get a massive spreadlo amplifier on top of this. A skill this strong needs a drawback and locking you out of the fairie is a good one because if you actually organise your skills it isn’t actually a drawback besides losing some embraces.

Too many people look at dissipation and go “3 minute CD to get an entry broil in potency” which really isn’t what dissipation is, you need to think of it as a skill that completely refills your gauge, an equivalent on SGE or WHM I would also advocate to have a downside. Dissipation isn’t a problem because if you made the 20% actions or removed the fairie being removed or both the skill would simply be too powerful, Seraphism is held back by SCH’s mana economy and having to lose damage to GCD heal, if you removed the barriers from dissipation then it would be totally free, it’s simply too powerful and Seraphism since it can’t be a spreadlo amplifier fills a different niche

SCH’s entire design principle is choice generated from dis synergy, it should stay like that, SGE already exists as a “I want the game to play it for me” shield healer

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Imo the issue isn't really what it does, it's more that it doesn't do enough because what it gives doesn't interact properly with the rest of the kit.

The idea of trading your fairy for more personal power is fine, it's just that the current numbers feel lack lusters, you get very little bang for your buck basically.
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You should probably not be talking about Scholar's current state given that your profile says you only have SMN at 90? You haven't even played SCH in the new content. I have and I can say that Dissipation is INCREDIBLE for the new Extremes and it was fantastic for Savage last expansion. Being able to use it to recover mistakes is amazing. I often pop it when the cohealer dies and I need to spam GCD heals on top of needing extra Aetherflow, especially if Seraphism is down. I've single-handedly saved runs of the new extreme thanks to Dissipation exclusively. It's fine if it isn't mandatory for normal content, that's what Energy Drain is there for, to allow it to still be useful.

Is it even possible for them to have an ability ‘upgrade’ into something with an entirely different function to the original? As far as I’m aware there aren’t any ‘upgrades’ in the game as yet that work like this

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Originally Posted by Connor

Is it even possible for them to have an ability ‘upgrade’ into something with an entirely different function to the original? As far as I’m aware there aren’t any ‘upgrades’ in the game as yet that work like this

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The idea of it was that you "fuse" with your fairy but still get locked out of using fairy abilities. It upgrades your gcd heal usage slightly in order to lean into its healing magic buff. Basically Seraphism if it kept to the script and was actually balanced.

All I know is I have literally no room on my hotbar for Seraphism, and that's even without having Physick and Repose because they're useless. I guess I can remove, uh... Esuna? Limit Break? Broil?

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

The idea of it was that you "fuse" with your fairy but still get locked out of using fairy abilities. It upgrades your gcd heal usage slightly in order to lean into its healing magic buff. Basically Seraphism if it kept to the script and was actually balanced.

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Isn't the idea that you just say "fine I'll do it myself" and stop wasting energy maintaining the summon?

Even though I'm not fond of dissipation this is a terrible idea because they serve different purposes. It's akin to having whispering dawn upgrade to fey blessing because they're both fairy heals.
Really the biggest problem is the overload of abilities on scholar it doesn't need, same with most healers. So many spells could be just straight upgrades through traits.
So yeah just upgrade a bunch of scholar abilities through traits and clear up some room for dots please. Also have summon seraph upgrade to rouse.