BLM feedback.

Hey,

Nothing fancy just BLM feedback as described lol, sorry if it's too long:

-New thunder feels really clunky, you cannot double DOT anymore, and you MUST swap fire/ice to be able to do so. If you run low SPS sometimes the timer will literally run out at the end of fire phase if you extend it. It does the same dmg as EW, the difference is most of the dmg comes from the dot now instead upfront, making it less reliable to use for movement unlike EW.

-You cannot have short fire phases anymore without feeling really bad: if the boss is leaving in 7s and you've just got into umbral ice, you MUST cast blizzard 4 even tho you won't utilise all the fire 4s, it feels really bad.

-Removal of ice paradox is simply a mistake, not only it was a cool spell but also it gave you the possibility to weave and move. You had the choice to use it either before or after Blizzard IV to align it with movement , now you don't have that option anymore, also it was a good finisher spell or before downtime.

-New encounters and dungeons have received an increase in movement yet BLM has became more rigid and strict, fire phase now is longer and tighter due to instant fire paradox and flare star.

-Making fire paradox instant in my opinion makes no sense, you are making the AF timer tighter due to the recast and you don't have the option to hold it for movement or anything like that, you don't say "oh yeah let me use paradox here for movement" you just use it when the timer is about to run out, if it aligns, you're lucky.

-AOE rotation: enhance flare was removed and high fire/blizzard nerfed to 100p, the result is simple: using those spells are literally a dps loss, the only thing you do is cast flare twice once you get 3 hearts and then flare star. If you use transpose you can even skip using high fire/blizzard entirely and just use freeze. AOE changes encourages you to not use half of your AOE spells.

-BLM dps is really behind right now, the job feels way more punishing and restricted and yet the damage is not there, I'm happy this was addressed along with MP recovery at low levels.

-Flare star just feels like despair 2.0, doesn't have that much potency and you cannot even carry the stacks into umbral ice.

I'm not even going to mention non standard rotation and transpose tech because it is clear that SE doesn't want you to use it, I could be all day typing about that.

I may have forgotten something but those are the main issues I think, thanks for reading

Mao thanks Deryk for feedsback. Is pretty good points. Mao thinkings is boil down to Devs, for some reason, wanted to ruins spell flow and make lots spells become crappys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao thanks Deryk for feedsback. Is pretty good points. Mao thinkings is boil down to Devs, for some reason, wanted to ruins spell flow and make lots spells become crappys.

---

Maybe if people would stop writing like toddlers, feedback would be taken more seriously. Christ almighty what am I even reading here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

Maybe if people would stop writing like toddlers, feedback would be taken more seriously. Christ almighty what am I even reading here?

---

Mao does RPs in game and on Forum. Mao was adopteds as baby by Dragon Momma. Mao nots know Eorzean language very well buts Mao knows Dragon speakings. If is bother Renko, feel free to ignores Mao.

As a BLM main since 1.0, I do not like these changes to the Job. I have enjoyed every change each expansion brought, but this is the most clunky annoying and weak powered I have seen in 13+ years. I would rather have 1.0 BLM rather than Dawntrails :(

They need to up the damage, increase timers or reduce cast times. Remove Flarestar and bring back Ice Paradox. OR Just revert BLM back to Endwalker state with increased potency and try again in 8.0

As I fear this Savage tier, BLM will be excluded from joining groups like what happened a while in Stormblood when the META was better than BLM and SAMs

I still remember when this meme was floating around during Stormblood

And the changes IF only Mana regen fix for low level and a slight potency increase are planned for 7.01 and 7.05, it will not be enough. BLM needs more action based changes/reworks :/

https://i.imgur.com/XAwvpP5.jpg

Think most people who played Black Mage during Endwalker seriously and done the new extremes, would rather have them roll back the changes. Its not just one button that is gone but entire playstyles. In statics you might be able to work with it, but in pf Endwalker BLM was great, because you had many answers for dynamic situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meie

Think most people who played Black Mage during Endwalker seriously and done the new extremes, would rather have them roll back the changes. Its not just one button that is gone but entire playstyles. In statics you might be able to work with it, but in pf Endwalker BLM was great, because you had many answers for dynamic situations.

---

Yeah I can honestly say I would prefer they removed all Dawntrall changes and abilities, buffed Endwalker abilities to proper balance, and do a rework for 8.0 instead of this frustrating mess atm :/ I cannot fathom how they could fail this badly at a Job that has been pretty good since 1.0/ARR and to Endwalker.

Mao also agrees with Meie and Chandani. Much better said than Mao could has dones. Mao would gladly has taken EW state with boosted potencies than what now exists. At least then there would has been more fluid playstyle whats would allow BLMs to be more flexibles. Flarestar is just not worth the price BLMs must pay.

I've mained BLM since Shadowbringers, and it's the first time I'm considering switching off it. Black Mage now feels horrible to play, I'm going to wait for the apparent potency changes in 7.05, but as of now I'm considering the new and improved BLM opener:

Despair > Transpose > Pictomancer
https://i.imgur.com/mFqS5hR.jpeg

BLM was wonderfully fluid and flexible in ShB and EW. Now it feels clunky, rigid, and unpleasant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

I've mained BLM since Shadowbringers, and it's the first time I'm considering switching off it. Black Mage now feels horrible to play, I'm going to wait for the apparent potency changes in 7.05, but as of now I'm considering the new and improved BLM opener:

Despair > Transpose > Pictomancer
https://i.imgur.com/mFqS5hR.jpeg

BLM was wonderfully fluid and flexible in ShB and EW. Now it feels clunky, rigid, and unpleasant.

---

Its sad but I fear this "Opener" is what is likely going to happen. But I have played BLM only since I started 13 years ago. And if this mess isnt fixed ASAP, I think with Dawntrail is a new journey. it might be time for me to journey away from this game after all this time. I have never ever considered just giving up on XIV, but this BLM changes has pretty much ruined all the excitement I had for MONTHs for this expansion in just less than 1 week into the launch :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altera

Its sad but I fear this "Opener" is what is likely going to happen. But I have played BLM only since I started 13 years ago. And if this mess isnt fixed ASAP, I think with Dawntrail is a new journey. it might be time for me to journey away from this game after all this time. I have never ever considered just giving up on XIV, but this BLM changes has pretty much ruined all the excitement I had for MONTHs for this expansion in just less than 1 week into the launch :(

---

It's depressing isn't it? I know Hanlon's razor states we shouldn't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity, but it certainly feels like nerfing a class to get them to all play the new shiny one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

It's depressing isn't it? I know Hanlon's razor states we shouldn't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity, but it certainly feels like nerfing a class to get them to all play the new shiny one.

---

Maybe in 8.0 they should not make any new Jobs and rather spend all that extra opened devtime to focus on current jobs. There is more than enough Jobs as it is, and rather spend time make each of these more unique

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by awhitet

Flare star just feels like despair 2.0, doesn't have that much potency and you cannot even carry the stacks into umbral ice.

---

Agree with all of what you said, but this is really the crux of the issue for me, I could live with maybe most of these changes bar the ones to Paradox even though I don't like them, but flare star takes these new issues and exacerbates them I feel.

A major concern I have is that they'll only see the potency issues with Flare Star and just buff it, but I think that'll just make the core issues of how rigid the rotation is + Astral soul mechanics not being great even worse. The way you lose all astral soul stacks when switching phases makes having to end a phase early feel even worse than before, prior you knew you were already losing dps but at least that was better than losing enochain altogether, losing your big finishing spell because you're trying to adjust for the fast pace of fights does not feel great at all.

You also just lose flare star during any downtime whatsover, I just got to level 100 a few days ago but I already can't count how many times I've lost the spell because a boss leaves/becomes untargetable/goes into a cutscene, the fact that you can't store astral soul stacks at all feels like a huge oversight imo. I also keep accidentally overcapping it because of the manafont buff and I forget to cast it in the midst of a fight while I'm trying to keep AF up, but that may be just a skill issue on my part as I learn to use it.

I only recently got to 100 so I'm still getting used to the new Flare Star paradigm. The class feels like it's easier to play safe but harder to play optimally and I'm actually enjoying it but I'll have more to say once I've done more EXDRs and beaten the Extremes.

One thing, though, is that complaints about instant paradox making the astral timer tighter don't really make sense to me. They just mean that clearance that used to exist in the second half of your astral phase is now available, instead, in your first. So instead of having 15 seconds less a GCD and then another 15 seconds, you have 15 seconds followed by 15 seconds less a GCD. In fact, you have another 15 seconds minus a GCD if you're willing to just throw your F3P then and there rather than save it for a transpose swap out of your ice phase.

i've done a few dungeons on BLM for leveling and i'm not level 100 yet, but i haven't had problems with the AF timers being too tight as people keep saying

i can easily do 3 GCDs > paradox > 3gcds > F3 > 2gcds >despair as a "comfort" rotation, but i've also fit 4gcds between refreshes when i had to (especially with triple cast or leylines)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

Maybe if people would stop writing like toddlers, feedback would be taken more seriously. Christ almighty what am I even reading here?

---

...they have been using third-person self-referencing for as long as I remember them. If anything, I respect them for not breaking character once on that matter. Their feedback is no less valuable as anyone else actively playing the job, so who are you to judge them for RP talk? Kindly leave Mao alone, not cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melethron123

i've done a few dungeons on BLM for leveling and i'm not level 100 yet, but i haven't had problems with the AF timers being too tight as people keep saying

i can easily do 3 GCDs > paradox > 3gcds > F3 > 2gcds >despair as a "comfort" rotation, but i've also fit 4gcds between refreshes when i had to (especially with triple cast or leylines)

---

Yeah, this is what I was getting at before. If you use F3P in the same fire phase that you get it, and save your two triplecasts and 40s cd swiftcast for emergencies, it's very easy to maintain AF and never miss a Flare Star.

...buuut it's higher DPS to use your triple/swift/f3p proc at very specific times in order to shave as many seconds off your casting, and dodge as many wrong-element damage penalties, as you can. Unfortunately, if you do this it's much easier to get caught with your pants down and lose uptime, Flare Star, or even Enochian all together. So BLM is a lot more about risk management and corner-cutting; it feels a little like playing the job in Heavensward where you were constantly gambling on how long you could go before refreshing AF.

It definitely feels harder to play than it used to be, but I don't mind yet. Maybe it'll bother me as I go but so far it's a new and interesting challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altera

Yeah I can honestly say I would prefer they removed all Dawntrall changes and abilities, buffed Endwalker abilities to proper balance, and do a rework for 8.0 instead of this frustrating mess atm :/ I cannot fathom how they could fail this badly at a Job that has been pretty good since 1.0/ARR and to Endwalker.

---

Agree, this is the low point for BLM. I don't like anything added for DT. Every change has contributed to making the class less interesting and more of a chore. Thunder and short fire phases feel terrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altera

Yeah I can honestly say I would prefer they removed all Dawntrall changes and abilities, buffed Endwalker abilities to proper balance, and do a rework for 8.0 instead of this frustrating mess atm :/ I cannot fathom how they could fail this badly at a Job that has been pretty good since 1.0/ARR and to Endwalker.

---

I agree 100% with this comment and pretty much everything the original post said, I would take 6.X BLM over 7.0 in a heartbeat and would be happy with literally no adjustments. Retrace and the extra polyglot are actually kind of nice though, so I wouldn't mind those staying.

Thanks for the valuable and polite feedback OP. I hope that devs listen to our concerns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RenkoBernkastel

Maybe if people would stop writing like toddlers, feedback would be taken more seriously. Christ almighty what am I even reading here?

---

contributed more than you, just leave.

Putting the trolls aside atm Mao did a great list of the problems with BLM. I don't know who actually thought these changes were actually good but they need to be looked at asap because right now BLM is not looking good atm. BLM was always the one job that stayed the same, there was nothing wrong with it. I may hang up BLM until I see some reverts/fixes

If they added back ice paradox, make thunder buff 45s and let's say make blizzard 3 give 5k mp and b4 5k mp the job would feel way better imo, you would have more options. They should also add the option to use flare star at lower potency if you use it with less stacks.

BLM just needs an overall rework, it's simply not fun and that's why you rarely see any BLM anymore. Throughout all of Dawntrail I haven't encountered a BLM in my dungeons.... they need to shake things up and remove this whole "you're a turret, do turret things" that's why classes like Picto are very enjoyable, because of the mobility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rekujin

BLM just needs an overall rework, it's simply not fun and that's why you rarely see any BLM anymore. Throughout all of Dawntrail I haven't encountered a BLM in my dungeons.... they need to shake things up and remove this whole "you're a turret, do turret things" that's why classes like Picto are very enjoyable, because of the mobility.

---

So you want it to be just like a job that already exists?

The way BLM plays now I constantly feel like I'm doing something wrong. It just feels off all the time. I feel like it flowed really well before but now not so much since AoE on Black Mage feels completely scuffed like OP mentioned.

The decrease in potency for High Fire II and High Blizzard II is odd. The 20 potency loss in DT was a mistake while also adding a small potency bonus to Flare's primary target doesn't seem like a good trade while under level 100.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rekujin

BLM just needs an overall rework, it's simply not fun and that's why you rarely see any BLM anymore. Throughout all of Dawntrail I haven't encountered a BLM in my dungeons.... they need to shake things up and remove this whole "you're a turret, do turret things" that's why classes like Picto are very enjoyable, because of the mobility.

---

BLM hasn't really been a popular job since I started playing back in stormblood, most people just don't like long cast times, which is the core of the job, so it isn't popular, but that's fine. Also "I haven't seen a black mage since dawntrail released" yeah. because they screwed up a lot of stuff people liked about the class. which was part of the point of this thread.

Literally all 3 other casters have fine mobility, if you want that just go play one of those, black mage's trade off for easy mobility was higher damage, and in the past if you played the class well you could be decently mobile, especially in endwalker.

Saying "classes are enjoyable because of mobility" is just your opinion, I enjoy picto because its rotation is flexible, but I love black mage's lack of mobility and timers because in the past it made fights feel like a fun challenge of figuring out how best to use my toolkit to resolve mechanics while still keeping up DPS. Saying "black mage should just be mobile because thats what i like" would be like me insisting RDM PCT and SMN all have timers on their main resources, because thats what I find engaging, even though that wouldn't fit the way those classes are designed at all.

What Azebra said. BLM turret gameplay with rewarding use of Triplecast and Ice Paradox is why I loved the job. Being able to memorise and optimise my BLM in trials and raids to be the optimum unmoving death machine is peak mage fantasy for me.

I've got hopes that they do some adjustments in the future aside from QoL or damage buffs, it's clear that almost everyone doesn't like this iteration of the job, every main BLM I know and day 1 raiders have already swapped to PCT, it does more damage, gives shields, 2m meta buff, and well, waaaay more fun to play and optimise.

So, my feedback on each of the "current issue"

Mana rework
I'm fine with it. We're suppose to do BlizzIV so wether it's a natural tick or a cast matters not.
It is killing the alternate rotation but that's clearly intended but I don't mind it. It probably was a balance nightmare, you design a job to be played a certain way and the optimal way is a clunky mess.
Sure, there's the appeal to the more HC players, but frankly I feel like it left the job in a weird spot.
Regarding low level before umbral soul is unlocked. We'll see what they plan for tomorrow, but the easiest fix would be to make all ice spell cost 0 mp.

Ice Paradox
I also wonder why it was removed.
It made sens thematically and gave us a bit of extra mobility.
However I remember seeing post of people complaining that Ice Paradox was annoying because it forced them to spend more time in umbral... My guess is that people will complain no matter what.

Fire Paradox
I actually like the change. Being able to have a garanteed instant during the fire phase is nice. Instead of doing 3P3 I simply do 4P2.
It also allows for some triple/swift cast weaving nicely.

Thunder
I like the change that we get one after each transition. Not being tied to a proc makes for a smoother experience.
However, the potency reworks makes it a bit weird to use and relay it to an umbral only cast (ideally to weave transpose).
On one hand it's fine because we were already doing that, thunder in umbral. On the other hand it makes it a very poor movement tool.
Perhaps dropping the duration to 15s (while doubling the DoT potency) would make it better as we'd have to use it twice as often. It would also make us not waste half our procs.

I do not believe the nerf to double dot on 2 target is a problem. There aren't that many situations where 2 high hp target are present and tbh with the proc being available at every stance swap, double doting isn't that hard.
Garanteed Thunder proc for 99% of our single target dps compensates for that 1% of the time there are 2 targets. It will still be fine as we have 2 thunder per full cycle, we'll just not be able to have perfect uptime on 2 targets.

Flare Star
Here is where I think something's gone wrong.
As mentioned many times, the new Flare Star works as a finisher which requires a full fire phase to be used.
Which is a twofold problem.
1- We already have a finish in single target and that is Despair. Having an extra finisher every cycle makes the spell redundant
2- It requiring 6 FireIV makes it so that closing an astral phase early, for whatever reason, is not only a DPS loss but a frustrating experience. You're at the 5th FireIV and the boss is about to transition? Enjoy your loss.

The stack not being held in umbral phase obviously is a big reason why problem 2 occurs.
The spell is however very fun in AoE.

Imo, a simple solution which would make the whole experience better would be to make Flare Star stack only obtainable through Paradox, Despair, Flare (x3), use of manafication (30s buff granting 1 free cast)

It would address problem 1 as it would stop being a finisher. You wouldn't always do it at the end, you would just do it after 3 complete phase.
It could be after the third despair or at the beggining of the next firephase.
As an additional benefit, the spell would feel more special. It is something you'd be building over 3 cycles, therefor very high potency could be attached to it.
Its long cast time would also reinforce the whole "big boom incoming, finally!!!"

The second problem would be adressed by not tying it to FireIV but Paradox and Despair which would bring back flexibility regarding shortened fire phase. With only 2 casts required per FirePhase to build the stacks, beside 3s firephase (FireIII > Despair), we'd always be able to get our stacks.

Obviously, this would require the Astral Fire stack to be held while in Umbral Ice. Additionnally, because of the long windup, the stack should also be kept without Enochian to prevent frustration during 1min transition in some savage / ultimates.

Flare dmg
No one talks about this one but, could Flare simply becomes a flat damage on all target? It is already annoying enough to swap target on a 4s cast in dungeon, but on top of it since there's drop on additional targets, we can't simply spam the one target in the middle of the pack as it'll die before everything else.
BLM AOE doesn't seem to be stellar atm so that could also serve as a small dungeon buff.


Summary
Overall it's fine
Waiting to see the changes, but an easy change regarding mp would be to make ice spell free
Thunder would probably feel better with a bigger impact or shorter duration
Flare Star is atm redundant and would, probably, feel better if reworked as a rarer yet much harder hitting spell by gaining charges through Paradox/Despair.
This would also fix the "short fire phase" issue BLM currently face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

So, my feedback on each of the "current issue"

Mana rework
I'm fine with it. We're suppose to do BlizzIV so wether it's a natural tick or a cast matters not.
It is killing the alternate rotation but that's clearly intended but I don't mind it. It probably was a balance nightmare, you design a job to be played a certain way and the optimal way is a clunky mess.
Sure, there's the appeal to the more HC players

---

I don't see why there would be a hardcore to casual divide when it comes to MP. It takes 30 seconds roughly to go through six Fire IV. There will always be situations where you don't have enough time to do that, so why should we have to go through all the steps in the rotation if we can't finish and why should we lose interesting decision making as a result of being forced to go through a rigid rotation? Then you have to consider failing to hit a dying target, which means losing out on MP. Even if you have access to Umbral Soul, isn't it preferable to not have to mash it just to cast? If you're in a two target situation, or happen to be between two back to back set of mobs that can't be simultaneously attacked as is the case in a few dungeons, dealing with MP can become really awkward.

MP regen should come back. Ice spells granting MP can stay as a way to fight ticks, but there was no reason to remove regen entirely.

The thing about the changes is that they feel so ham fisted and not thought out at all. It's extremely obvious by now that the entire goal was 2 parts: Eliminate every single non-standard line including transpose -> F3P, and change how mana regen works to eliminate clunky mana regen situations and help SpS BLM.

Both of these goals are perfectly fine goals, but they chose to amputate the entire limb instead of attempting to heal the problem naturally.

If they wanted to eliminate non-standard lines, all they had to do was examine why they exist at all. If you were to increase the potencies of Blizzard III and Blizzard IV, and make doing that line the highest potency option, most all of non-standard evaporates naturally as it's no longer the best potency option. Creative players could still use non-standard lines to adjust for movement, but it would be at the cost of potency (in some situations).

To go a step further, if you want to ensure that players adhere to the standard line, make Ice phase interesting! Scrap Flare Star entirely, and instead make it so that F4s increase the potency of Blizzard III, and if you complete all F4s, B3 becomes Absolute Zero or something along those lines. Now I can get the reward for my F4s on the back end, Ice phase is more interesting, and I'm less punished for missing one or two F4s because B3 would still be higher than normal due to the scaling previously mentioned. You could even make it so that Absolute Zero buffs B4, further incentivizing planning ahead to ensure you can try and find a reasonable spot to cast those spells.

Yes, please just go back to Endwalker Black Mage. These changes feel like a slap in the face after playing it in Endwalker and finding out it was the most fun job in the game. I would rather Black Mage have gotten the treatment most other jobs got which was no changes except a followup ogcd action on something because SE didn't know how to add something without breaking the whole existing rotation. Just make flare star an upgrade of despair, make flare star stacks not disappear in UI (or remove the gauge), and give us a small amount of movement back with Ice Paradox. It's hilarious to look at PCT and see how much movement it has between GCDs (and support abilities and a 20s movement ability with a movement speed increase?!) and then wonder what happened to Black Mage. It honestly feels like it just wasn't play tested at all and all of the changes were a knee jerk reaction to kill nonstandard rotations (which, who really cares if there is a nonstandard rotation?) which just ended up hurting everyone. It's funny because I always assumed Black Mage would be in a good spot because it's always had one of the most interesting rotations with the most dedicated players. Now it feels like who ever designed it either hates Black Mage players or is just bad at designing jobs, which I know the second part isn't true because the new jobs are really well designed!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krakatoa

To go a step further, if you want to ensure that players adhere to the standard line, make Ice phase interesting! Scrap Flare Star entirely, and instead make it so that F4s increase the potency of Blizzard III, and if you complete all F4s, B3 becomes Absolute Zero or something along those lines.

---

Adding a high damage ice spell has a lot of merit and would have been more of a change up than Flare Star. Such a spell could have also been the focus of the MP change, allow it to be an instant MP restore if SE felt like we really needed one while also keeping MP regen to allow for more dynamic play. I'd support this over what we have now.

I think this post has the best feedback post DT dropping.
Just gonna leave this here:
https://i.imgur.com/mhSAqIF.png

Least amount of clears in current extremes (by 25% less than the second-to-last job, Monk, and just a timid 4.1x less clears than Pictomancer). BLM has always been a niche job but it has never, since HW, been dead last. It's been bottom 3 a few times, but never dead last, and definitely not with this insane gap to the most played caster.
This job feels horrid to play. I've been playing a lot of pictomancer, and it's night and day. I just remember all those people who never touched BLM saying how accessible and "newbie friendly" it was going to become... yea, that's working out fantastic.
It's not just the potency either- this feels bad to play, like you're playing a job from HW but with modern encounter design.
DT being the death knell of this job wasn't in my bingo card, but I guess at least we have Pictomancer.
Genuinely sad about how this turned out. Enough 4am posting, I go lament the current state of job design in my sleep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

I think this post has the best feedback post DT dropping.
Just gonna leave this here:
https://i.imgur.com/mhSAqIF.png

Least amount of clears in current extremes (by 25% less than the second-to-last job, Monk, and just a timid 4.1x less clears than Pictomancer). BLM has always been a niche job but it has never, since HW, been dead last. It's been bottom 3 a few times, but never dead last, and definitely not with this insane gap to the most played caster.
This job feels horrid to play. I've been playing a lot of pictomancer, and it's night and day. I just remember all those people who never touched BLM saying how accessible and "newbie friendly" it was going to become... yea, that's working out fantastic.
It's not just the potency either- this feels bad to play, like you're playing a job from HW but with modern encounter design.
DT being the death knell of this job wasn't in my bingo card, but I guess at least we have Pictomancer.
Genuinely sad about how this turned out. Enough 4am posting, I go lament the current state of job design in my sleep.

---

Yep. For context, BLM used to be about as popular as BRD, with BRD sometimes even falling behind on the rankings. Now BRD has 50% more players despite very little changing with the job in DT. While it's possible that a bunch of people picked up BRD, the difference is more likely due to a huge amount of players dropping BLM.

I just don't get why they'd do this to Black Mage of all things. I can maybe see the idea that you should give a reason to play the shiny new caster job.
1, They didn't do that with the melees in lieu of Viper. I haven't tried any of them, but I've heard that the changes to Dragoon, Ninja, and Monk are pretty well received. I've also heard that Reaper and Samurai are mostly the same.
2, Why do it to Black mage in particular when it's already the least played caster with a reputation for high difficulty?
This makes me think that someone genuinely thought these were good changes to make. Probably without a lot of experience playing Black Mage in anything other than Stone Sky Sea.
Opinions on what's "the issue" are varied among these threads, so I can only hope that they take something from the multitudes of upset loyal practitioners of the Dark Arts, and fix this soon.
If you ask me, Revert the changes to Paradox and Thunder. Including the hard-cast Fire-Paradox.
Make the MP gain from Blizz4 5000, and give 5000 to Ice Paradox.
Change Flare Star to a different ability (we'll call it Astral Star) that can only be cast in Ice phase. Whenever you cast Fire 4 with no Umbral Hearts, you instead gain an Astral Heart (Same place in the guage, just red) then once you use Astral Star, it's damage scales based on how many Astral Hearts you had before going in to Ice. 300 for 1, 400 for 2, 550 for 3. (Yes, that does mean you'd get to use it normally in the normal opener, thanks for noticing.)
This leaves Manafont in a weird place, so how about it also grants a buff that allows Astral Star in fire attunement too. Or maybe just not have it be a pocket ice phase in the first place. Make Manafont into a 4000MP restore that also grants a buff to your next three spells, just enough for two Fire4s and a Despair. (I didn't come up with that. I can't remember who did though. sorry.)

Oddly enough, if you asked me what I'd do to improve Black Mage before the Dawntrail media tours and live letters, I wouldn't know what to tell you. I like the idea of Manafont not being on a 2 minute exact cooldown. Redrawing leylines is a pretty good concept. Aside from that, it was in a pretty good place. I already had a ton of fun just doing any normal or high end content. The one thing I did have a major gripe with is down-syncing. Not having Despair before level 72 makes dropping enochian almost inevitable. Losing Fire4 feels just terrible. And of course, the leveling experience wasn't helped a single bit in Dawntrail. It's been made much worse by the removal of MP ticks. Getting Umbral Soul at 35 doesn't even help that much. Without umbral hearts, I don't really have any reason to stay in Umbral Ice for longer than it takes to regen MP. Might as well just keep the MP regen, and add in an extra way to get it back just in case you're like me, and you love your spell speed too much that you couldn't get two MP ticks under leylines some of the time.

I might try Red Mage again. I heard they're doing pretty well these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

I think this post has the best feedback post DT dropping.
Just gonna leave this here:
https://i.imgur.com/mhSAqIF.png

Least amount of clears in current extremes (by 25% less than the second-to-last job, Monk, and just a timid 4.1x less clears than Pictomancer). BLM has always been a niche job but it has never, since HW, been dead last. It's been bottom 3 a few times, but never dead last, and definitely not with this insane gap to the most played caster.
This job feels horrid to play. I've been playing a lot of pictomancer, and it's night and day. I just remember all those people who never touched BLM saying how accessible and "newbie friendly" it was going to become... yea, that's working out fantastic.
It's not just the potency either- this feels bad to play, like you're playing a job from HW but with modern encounter design.
DT being the death knell of this job wasn't in my bingo card, but I guess at least we have Pictomancer.
Genuinely sad about how this turned out. Enough 4am posting, I go lament the current state of job design in my sleep.

---

I remember at the beginning of Stormblood MCH and SMN were least played jobs. Now both of these jobs are dumbed down and both are one of the most played old jobs in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

This job feels horrid to play. I've been playing a lot of pictomancer, and it's night and day. I just remember all those people who never touched BLM saying how accessible and "newbie friendly" it was going to become... yea, that's working out fantastic.
It's not just the potency either- this feels bad to play, like you're playing a job from HW but with modern encounter design.

---

Welcome to Black Mage. Not the fake black mage that nonstandard worshippers built up as somehow being the real class that was so flexible and freeform because of abusing bad design. The real, core Black Mage. It is a very sloppily designed class that has design decisions made before ARR even launched still present in it because the devs never bothered to actually fix the damned class. In part because of people constantly saying how much they loved the class because the class was so perfect, even though it relied on effectively turning the class into something it wasn't to achieve this. Look at the class without all the nonstandard exploits. This is Black Mage.

To give you an idea of how bad this class is, I saw the problems it has that people are complaining about right now back in 2021. Here's the thread I made where BLM mains who abused nonstandard claimed the class was perfect and I was crazy.

Personally, I don't like pictomancer. It feels like 5 core ideas roughly thrown together and called a class. It feels rough around the edges and half-baked. BLM is in a bad spot, but at least its idea is coherent, even if BLM's core is literally incompatible with DT, BLM itself is still a coherent rotation that has persisted since HW, and not just: "Random crap, go!" the class.

But I'm also going to say this, the only reason I'm happy with the state of BLM right now is that, now that the nonstandard wool has been removed from all BLM main's eyes, they can finally see just how rotten the class actually is.

I just hope that when this is all said and done, the devs revitalize the turret caster gameplay within their encounter meta. The death of turret caster gameplay will be the single largest example of homogenization the game has ever had if it finally and truly dies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranok

Welcome to Black Mage. Not the fake black mage that nonstandard worshippers built up as somehow being the real class that was so flexible and freeform because of abusing bad design. The real, core Black Mage. It is a very sloppily designed class that has design decisions made before ARR even launched still present in it because the devs never bothered to actually fix the damned class. In part because of people constantly saying how much they loved the class because the class was so perfect, even though it relied on effectively turning the class into something it wasn't to achieve this. Look at the class without all the nonstandard exploits. This is Black Mage.

To give you an idea of how bad this class is, I saw the problems it has that people are complaining about right now back in 2021. Here's the thread I made where BLM mains who abused nonstandard claimed the class was perfect and I was crazy.

Personally, I don't like pictomancer. It feels like 5 core ideas roughly thrown together and called a class. It feels rough around the edges and half-baked. BLM is in a bad spot, but at least its idea is coherent, even if BLM's core is literally incompatible with DT, BLM itself is still a coherent rotation that has persisted since HW, and not just: "Random crap, go!" the class.

But I'm also going to say this, the only reason I'm happy with the state of BLM right now is that, now that the nonstandard wool has been removed from all BLM main's eyes, they can finally see just how rotten the class actually is.

I just hope that when this is all said and done, the devs revitalize the turret caster gameplay within their encounter meta. The death of turret caster gameplay will be the single largest example of homogenization the game has ever had if it finally and truly dies.

---

What is the "abuse of non standard" to you? You keep saying that but don't actually give examples of how it somehow sweetened the "poorly designed real black mage".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ririta

What is the "abuse of non standard" to you? You keep saying that but don't actually give examples of how it somehow sweetened the "poorly designed real black mage".

---

Apparently shortening Fire lines is "unintended gameplay" and "abusing bad game design", when the basic idea of "use as much Fire IV in a short time as possible" has been upheld the entire time. I find it unbelievable to call the use of one of your oldest skills, Transpose, in clever ways and skipping certain spells sometimes for fight or cooldown alignment "abuse".

What is actually sad though is how much the job had to be gutted (Umbral Paradox, Sharpcast management, MP recovery rework, Thunder rework) for them to return and put their tinfoil hat on and go "see, I told you the job is bad if you remove all the QoL that is intended to help you deal with new fight mechanics and be creative in your gameplay, it's a fundamentally badly designed job" like wow, no shit.

The irony in their and other people's negative stance to "nonstandard" and how they are happy bordering on delusion that it got destroyed is that the steps that were taken to kill nonstandard (which wasnt even that crazy of a gain anyways) actually hurt Standard BLM equally and only made the job HARDER for beginners, NOT easier.