I think Dark Knight and Gunbreaker losing APM is a shame

I agree with some of the changes in theory, I think it is nice to have a gap closer that can actually be used for utility, and I think merging Blood Weapon and Delirium is an okay idea if it weren't for the nerf to MP generation.

My issue is that these changes come at the cost of APM, because there is nothing to replace the old buttons. Right now it seems that Warrior and Paladin are more appealing to players who prefer a lower APM rotation, while Dark Knight and Gunbreaker appeal to players who prefer higher APM, and the Dawntrail changes seem aimed at making Dark Knight and Gunbreaker more appealing to those who prefer lower APM.

Personally, the higher APM is one of the main reasons I like to play these jobs over Warrior and Paladin, and I just think it's unfortunate that the changes are at odds with that. I think having two tanks each that appeal to those two different groups of players was a good thing, and it's a shame to lose some of that in my opinion.

I'm gonna say, I don't mind losing Plunge and Rough Divide in a vacuum, but I hate the reasoning behind the replacement. If the reasoning was to remove potencies from all basic melee dashes (Intervene, Onslaught) and JUST MAYBE keep Plunge and Rough Divide as a secondary dash ogcd with maybe an extra effect, that would have been cool.

But the goal was to reduce ogcds on the tanks that are by design ogcd heavy. And now Paladin and Warrior get to retain damage on their dashes, Warrior with Primal Rend even gets to keep two and that is unfair.

Plunge was the original tank dash. Then every tank had to get their dash. Now DRK had to lose damage on theirs. Absolutely nothing DRK had remained sacred. We remain an edgy Warrior with magic shintens and our peak gameplay right now is making the best use of TBN without losing damage.

Yoshida speaks of 8.0 as the expansion to address job identity - I will live with DRK for the next 2.5 years and eagerly await that patch - if for no other reason than to check how they completely lost the plot what made DRK interesting in 3.X and 4.X.

Killing old job elements and replacing it with watered down systems of other jobs and an array of "attack with 120s that has no interaction with your kit other than being cooldown-locked" is not what I and certainly many others wanted for the job that actually had an organic action flow, action enhancements and speed buffs.

Only time will tell. Until then I just hope they will adjust the MP generation we lost with two stacks of blood weapon being removed and that TBN remains stalwart in this position - because the absolute last thing we need is to kill the last unique thing about DRK and make TBN a 25s recast no cost no proc barrier to appeal to barse frogs who lose damage because they're bad at using TBN.

Your APM will be unaffected or marginally higher in movement heavy fights from the gap closer change, so this is just fight design dependent. The bigger APM (and DPS) impact comes from Blood Weapon being integrated into Delirium and the resultant loss of two Blood Weapon stacks, which is probably more worth drawing attention to.

I know of streamers who really want to push the claim that WAR is 'finally starting to catch up' in difficulty this time around, but WAR is still ultimately designed for a section of the playerbase that would be gated out of playing the game entirely if it wasn't so accessible and new player friendly. I think the average player isn't going to see significant differences.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Your APM will be unaffected or marginally higher in movement heavy fights from the gap closer change, so this is just fight design dependent. The bigger APM (and DPS) impact comes from Blood Weapon being integrated into Delirium and the resultant loss of two Blood Weapon stacks, which is probably more worth drawing attention to.

I know of streamers who really want to push the claim that WAR is 'finally starting to catch up' in difficulty this time around, but WAR is still ultimately designed for a section of the playerbase that would be gated out of playing the game entirely if it wasn't so accessible and new player friendly. I think the average player isn't going to see significant differences.

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I don't understand Lyth, but where exactly is the APM unaffected into marginally higher in movement heavy fights from that change?

- Bloodweapon got folded into Delirium (-1 APM)
- Unless the MP from the lost stacks are folded in the remaining 3 stacks (600 -> 1000 each), that's -1200MP per minute (-0,4/min in EoS, unsure exact APM), also as you mentioned
- Disesteem is a GCD replacing a different GCD every 2min (+/- 0)
- even if I were to use my new dash on cooldown like I did with Plunge, that's still +/- 0. Without actual movement need, that is -2 APM discounting Enhanced Unmend trait
- our defensives only got upgraded so unlike with Oblation, we will continue doing the same as before.

At best, it is unaffected, at worst it is actually less APM than before and the additions are just visuals with higher potency that trigger from using two free cooldowns that take no resources or management (anymore).

You'll still be pressing the button as an actual movement tool. Cast counts don't just include offensive actions, they include all actions, including weaved defensives and utility actions.

You're right in that it's going to be about a 2 APM loss specifically under pure target dummy conditions, but I think the reason for this change is to allow fight designers to move away from that, alongside smaller hitbox sizes. If fights are designed well, you'll still be pressing your movement tool button in the interests of maintaining uptime. I think the point going forward is that you should have a movement tool that you are using regularly for movement.

If it bothers you, work in Low Blow, Interject, Shirk, and Provoke into your rotation while maximizing your Arm's Length uses and you'll boost your numbers. If you have unused Shadowstride uses then be sure to burn those off as well. You'll still have much lower APM than a NIN who has on demand access to Shukuchi, or a VPR who has on-demand access to Slither (even after allowing for all that defensive fluff that inflates tank cast totals), but at least you can feel like you're keeping pace in the tank race.

I do think it's reasonable to talk about the change to Bloodweapon and Delirium's MP gains, but do I think the change to gap closers are really just there to bring tanks up to speed with everyone else, so that their movement tools are not a limiting factor for fight design. Sometimes change is resisted because people cling to what they know, rather than out of a desire to advocate for the best design. You'll have to remember that Onslaught was downgraded (in response to WAR player demand, no less) from a more modern Gyoten-style gap-closer to a traditional Shoulder Tackle style gap closer because tanks were still mentally stuck on ARR approaches to melee gameplay. I think it's time to break out of that mindset.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Plunge was the original tank dash. Then every tank had to get their dash. Now DRK had to lose damage on theirs. Absolutely nothing DRK had remained sacred. We remain an edgy Warrior with magic shintens and our peak gameplay right now is making the best use of TBN without losing damage.[/B]

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I mean aren't you happy to have a "magic dash" with absolutely no visual identity whatsoever?
Aren't you happy to have your third "dark laser line attack" (what shall we have in 8.0? oh i can't wait ^^) that just looks and fell like an "upgrade" to the previous ones?

Sarcasm and despair aside, if i wanted to play a game with different classe/characters with almost no differences in gameplay and everything focused on vfx, animations and visuals in order to differenciate them, i would have gone to play Genshin or Wuthering Waves.
This is just sad when you look at many classes and how they were "modified"

From my perspective, from heavensward to stormblood the dark knight class changed
there was good and bad that happened to this class, but overall it changed, it was an evolution.
Of course depending of people opinion some liked it and other hated and even to this day i feel like there is no real right or wrong answer.
From shadowbringer onward it felt like a complete downward spiral

Can people enjoy this class now? Absolutely, and they have all the right in the world to.
Is this class well designed? nope.
Now it's just "viable", that's all there is to it
(and depending on the patch/expansion it does the biggest damage out of the tanks, such identity)

Also sorry in advance for the possible deviation of the subject.

It.s because they keep using the idea that would fix dark knight to create a new job instead if you wanna talk about how and why it begin with shadowbringer.

losing high apm doesn't really mean that much when the jobs are already boring 1, 2, 3 (spender) which is every tank design.

Like it or not tanks do need to weave in defensives and other stuff, but the issue is actually that their rotations are genuinely just boring.

Losing Blood weapon was ok for me, its the mp regen from it being combined with Delirium is what we hope to see adjusted in the final patch notes because that is a major oversight unless edge and flood potencies have been increased and I just missed it.

Plunge they literally could have just removed the potency from it and it would have been fine. Then you have enhanced unmend which is still a thing. The gap closers should at least allow you to jump to any target not just an enemy.

In regards to APM I see what they were trying to do. But DRK in particular, after the 2 minute burst you are literally doing 1-2-3 for the next minute until 1 minute burst comes back up and plunge was the filler. Now you dont have that and they didnt replace it with anything. DRK already feels bad before lvl 70. Now its just going to feel bad before lvl 96.

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Originally Posted by The_User

It.s because they keep using the idea that would fix dark knight to create a new job instead if you wanna talk about how and why it begin with shadowbringer.

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Stormblood was the death of DRK, y'all just didn't bury it till ShadowBringers... oh look 2 generic attacks and a gauge (that are a single target / aoe clone of each other, that should be off the gcd...) at the cost of everything that made the class unique, but dont worry, warriors got to do as much damage as dragoons for 2 tiers.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

Stormblood was the death of DRK, y'all just didn't bury it till ShadowBringers... oh look 2 generic attacks and a gauge (that are a single target / aoe clone of each other, that should be off the gcd...) at the cost of everything that made the class unique, but dont worry, warriors got to do as much damage as dragoons for 2 tiers.

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I tend to disagree. While the MP maintenance for Darkside upkeep and the parry proc gameplay was cut out (on top of losing Scourge and Delirium as a combo... should've kept that tbh), many of the things that gave DRK unique identity remained intact in Stormblood.

Rapid MP generation and spending while avoiding bottoming out or overcapping, Blood management in increments of 1, 3, 4, 10 and 50 from various sources with a significant spender in Delirium every 80s. Bloodweapon being the speed buff of dreams and with Delirium it had 47.5% uptime (38/80 seconds), giving it the speed tank identity as well. Then while slightly changed, you still had a variety of offensive actions to enhance with Dark Arts, some providing extra effects like a burst of enmity on Powerslash, Plunge and Dark Passenger (also Blind on DADP) and lifesteal on Abyssal Drain. And with TBN going into 50 blood you had a cool retaliation independent of enmity with Bloodspiller or a burst of blood to manage for Delirium (which returned 1x TBN worth of MP on use).

Overall the theme was threefold for StB DRK:
- speed tank from haste buffs
- enhancer tank via Dark Arts
- high resource generating + spending tank

Which was all lost in 5.0+.

I disagree

I dont mind apm, but when the apm is way too high on specific timings (sometimes its about 80 apm on drk) it's just not fun, it doesn't add anything

I would rather have more apm with a linear distribution, than less apm with high peaks during bursts for example

I'm pretty sure with these changes Dark Knight is going to have the lowest APM in the 1m burst.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I'm pretty sure with these changes Dark Knight is going to have the lowest APM in the 1m burst.

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Lowest APM of all the tanks in general in DT.
I don't know why anyone would play the job in DT lol
APM is the entire reason people played it in EW.
Being lower APM than the axe clown is just too much. But hey, Xenos liked the changes.

GNB losing 2 damage ogcds during brust windows is good, actually. Not having weave space for defensives during 2m windows, which also made it hard to move due to the gapcloser effect fucking sucked hard in criterion. It's still hitting plenty of ogcds outside of it thanks to continuation anyway so it's not like the overall feel of the class is changing.

People complained incessantly about DRK and GNB openers being too busy, those players got exactly what they wanted. Personally I never had any issues with gapclosers dealing damage and was more than okay with all tanks keeping them that way but I knew they would be changed due to the massive amount of complaints. I am at least glad that WAR and PLD got to keep their offensive ones.

DRK and GNB being higher APM than the other two options is definitely a part of their identity and something that should be kept going forward, but I'm not sure what the devs could have done. The animations wouldn't make sense with 0 damage attached to them, so they needed to create new ones. If they wanted to make the openers less busy they could have added abilities used rotationally that CAN'T be used in the opener, something gated behind a resource maybe, but the issue with that is with how the game is so burst damage oriented people would just complain they have tools they can't use in their opener (see MNK and Phantom Rush). Then, if you could pool the resource for these hypothetical abilities to keep APM but (but again, NOT in the opener) people would just hold and use them in their re-opener and just exacerbate the issue.

Most of of the issue with job design can be laid at the feet of people that hyper obsesses over extreme optimization, because they are the only ones that care about small discrepencies that ultimately do not matter. They're the reason why we have the 2min meta, they're the reason why PLD lost Shield Swipe, DRK lost Reprisal and Low Blow procs, why Inner Release got changed to auto crit + dhit etc etc.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Lowest APM of all the tanks in general in DT.
I don't know why anyone would play the job in DT lol
APM is the entire reason people played it in EW.
Being lower APM than the axe clown is just too much. But hey, Xenos liked the changes.

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So to summarize :
we don't have the best burst window anymore
blackest night is enferior to other tank cd
Less APM than others tanks
(and won't speak about all the other stuff that is bad)

The only reason people would play this class would be for nostalgia, gpose or if the devs mess up the potency and make it the tank with the most dps at the beginning of expansion

(I really hope you are wrong about this, but i am scared to look up online data about upcoming APM on tanks, holy hell this is awful ><)

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Originally Posted by Praesul

People complained incessantly about DRK and GNB openers being too busy, those players got exactly what they wanted. Personally I never had any issues with gapclosers dealing damage and was more than okay with all tanks keeping them that way but I knew they would be changed due to the massive amount of complaints. I am at least glad that WAR and PLD got to keep their offensive ones.

DRK and GNB being higher APM than the other two options is definitely a part of their identity and something that should be kept going forward, but I'm not sure what the devs could have done. The animations wouldn't make sense with 0 damage attached to them, so they needed to create new ones. If they wanted to make the openers less busy they could have added abilities used rotationally that CAN'T be used in the opener, something gated behind a resource maybe, but the issue with that is with how the game is so burst damage oriented people would just complain they have tools they can't use in their opener (see MNK and Phantom Rush). Then, if you could pool the resource for these hypothetical abilities to keep APM but (but again, NOT in the opener) people would just hold and use them in their re-opener and just exacerbate the issue.

Most of of the issue with job design can be laid at the feet of people that hyper obsesses over extreme optimization, because they are the only ones that care about small discrepencies that ultimately do not matter. They're the reason why we have the 2min meta, they're the reason why PLD lost Shield Swipe, DRK lost Reprisal and Low Blow procs, why Inner Release got changed to auto crit + dhit etc etc.

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did you do dsr p7 ?
p12s p1 superchain 1 with 2mn burst ?
5-3 rotation on TOP ?

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

did you do dsr p7 ?
p12s p1 superchain 1 with 2mn burst ?
5-3 rotation on TOP ?

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...I have done the first two you mentioned and I am unsure what the third one is, thank you for expecting us to know what 5-3 rotation on TOP means.

And what exactly is that question even supposed to refer to here? You quoted a large block of text, what is your point?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

...I have done the first two you mentioned and I am unsure what the third one is, thank you for expecting us to know what 5-3 rotation on TOP means.

And what exactly is that question even supposed to refer to here? You quoted a large block of text, what is your point?

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my point is that I hardly know someone that enjoy drk busy burst, without using "tools" to triple weav easily

and if you're a drk you should know what 5-3 means (if you dont play casually the job)

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

my point is that I hardly know someone that enjoy drk busy burst, without using "tools" to triple weav easily

and if you're a drk you should know what 5-3 means (if you dont play casually the job)

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The 2min burst during Superchain 1 is not an issue, neither as DRK nor as GNB. It occurs while you are circling the boss and simply move to position depending on Astral/Umbral Tilt. The follow-up 2min is right after Paradeigma 3 and before Limit Cut, an essentially free moment of damage. The only one that may be a bit spicier is the one just before / at Superchain 2A, but that isn't Superchain 1 as you mentioned.

DSR p7 2min bursts are slightly delayed somewhere and aligned with the end of the 2nd Gigaflare cast if I recall correctly. Not the "most" intense from my experience, except for I think during one of the early Akh Morns'?

And just because I am a DRK does not automatically mean I know what 5-3 means, can you actually explain it so more than you in this thread can understand it? If you gonna drop it as info relevant to your argument, explain what it means if people don't know (or better, just explain it beforehand and don't assume we know).

As for people who enjoy busy bursts and not, the easiest solution to not wanting to play jobs with busy bursts is to not play them. Got Paladin and Warrior over there in a corner.
I enjoy the busy bursts DRK and GNB had. I could do it all with double weaving, no triple weaving required as you mentioned. It was fun figuring out the weaving of defensives (especially long, 20s ones) to do my job right.

If I wanted to play a job that is less busy, I would not be playing DRK/GNB. I'd be playing WAR/PLD. So I'm getting a bit tired of job tourists keep coming in and demand DRK to become less busy until we have all tanks play at about the same speed - DRK was the speed + busy tank since inception, goddamnit.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Lowest APM of all the tanks in general in DT.
Being lower APM than the axe clown is just too much.

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Probably not, but it is going to be closer overall. But it really wasnt that big of a difference across a whole fight to begin with.
Its the burst windows that make DRK and GNB busier higher apm jobs and that isn't really changing much.

I do think its dumb that they want to homogenize to this level though, its pretty tonedeaf

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Originally Posted by Praesul

People complained incessantly about DRK and GNB openers being too busy, those players got exactly what they wanted. Personally I never had any issues with gapclosers dealing damage and was more than okay with all tanks keeping them that way but I knew they would be changed due to the massive amount of complaints. I am at least glad that WAR and PLD got to keep their offensive ones.

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They don't balance jobs for people who play them.

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

The only reason people would play this class would be for nostalgia, gpose or if the devs mess up the potency and make it the tank with the most dps at the beginning of expansion

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DRK was doing the most damage of any tank in raid settings for all of Endwalker not just the beginning of the expansion.
Yes even into Anabaseios, a lot of people seem to beleive otherwise because of their inability to use the proper tabs on a certain highscore fansite, lets just say the one that starts with an "r" is basically irrelevant to tanks.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

my point is that I hardly know someone that enjoy drk busy burst, without using "tools" to triple weav easily

and if you're a drk you should know what 5-3 means (if you dont play casually the job)

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Its me I enjoy it.

I don't agree with changing jobs for people who don't like them, and in general theres a lot of people who seem wrapped up in the aesthetics of this job that can't admit that its just not for them.

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Originally Posted by Icecylee

GNB losing 2 damage ogcds during brust windows is good, actually. Not having weave space for defensives during 2m windows, which also made it hard to move due to the gapcloser effect fucking sucked hard in criterion. It's still hitting plenty of ogcds outside of it thanks to continuation anyway so it's not like the overall feel of the class is changing.

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Oh no, minor gameplay friction.
Remove it!

You will be play less busy job than war eventually. Now that war start to have more ogcd to weave during burst.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Probably not, but it is going to be closer overall. But it really wasnt that big of a difference across a whole fight to begin with.
Its the burst windows that make DRK and GNB busier higher apm jobs and that isn't really changing much.

I do think its dumb that they want to homogenize to this level though, its pretty tonedeaf


They don't balance jobs for people who play them.



DRK was doing the most damage of any tank in raid settings for all of Endwalker not just the beginning of the expansion.
Yes even into Anabaseios, a lot of people seem to beleive otherwise because of their inability to use the proper tabs on a certain highscore fansite, lets just say the one that starts with an "r" is basically irrelevant to tanks.



Its me I enjoy it.

I don't agree with changing jobs for people who don't like them, and in general theres a lot of people who seem wrapped up in the aesthetics of this job that can't admit that its just not for them.

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Well I dont like it, there is little occurence with «*pots + burst + personnal cd + group cd + aggro swap or mechanics (superchain 1 for example)*» but there is some, and when it occurs it’s just not fun and I know a lot of drk’s dont like it

I think it’s definitely better to have more busy rotation in between burst and a les busy burst than the other way around

I like drk/gnb way more than war/pld, and I like them to be busy, but having a bit less busy burst is totally fine to me

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Oh no, minor gameplay friction.
Remove it!

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There's good friction and bad friction in gameplay. Minor friction that does *not* effect my decision making (because it's not enough to actually effect what I'm doing or the buttons I'm pressing) and only exist to slightly annoy me for 2 seconds every over minute is, in my opinion, *not* an example of good friction. GNB is perfectly capable of being a high ogcd usage tank without damage gap closers. They have an entire button dedicated towards it which is used constantly.

Plunge was just fun to use. With or without min-maxing apm.

The first tank gap-closer in ffxiv as well... And now it's gone. Replaced with a bore that's more likely to make mobs run to your allies than what was previously which was us lunging at an enemy ramming them with the sword.

Least could have just removed damage on plunge in melee.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Plunge was just fun to use. With or without min-maxing apm.

The first tank gap-closer in ffxiv as well... And now it's gone. Replaced with a bore that's more likely to make mobs run to your allies than what was previously which was us lunging at an enemy ramming them with the sword.

Least could have jusy removed damage on plunge in melee.

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They'd be better off just removing shadowstride and giving Drk a new damage button.
I'd rather have no gapcloser than one that does no damage, because it becomes extremely situational.

So here my additional take on Shadowstride. I already said it's a miserable replacement for Plunge because Plunge broke 1min and non-burst monotony.

But Shadowstride, much like PLD's Intervene, has a small delay before the movement goes into effect and also feels like it doesn't have the smooth weaving Plunge had (Plunge started moving you on button press. The sound effects also feel so empty, I barely register that I press the button because it's so silent.

Can we please have Plunge back and put it on the Blood Gauge with a potency making it damage neutral on average to Bloodspiller? Warrior's Onslaught and Samurai's Gyoten had that and it was great. Movement on demand, does damage, isn't burst mandatory.

Sorry but Shadowstride sucks.

Trajectory feels even worse than Shadowstride does

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Trajectory feels even worse than Shadowstride does

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Clearly this is all an elaborate ruse to just make us all play WAR who has none of this BS to deal with and gets to have virtually every best thing...

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Clearly this is all an elaborate ruse to just make us all play WAR who has none of this BS to deal with and gets to have virtually every best thing...

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Arguably the best thing to do in protest is to play pld/war and abandon drk/gnb. It appears playrate is one of the key metrics they judge a job’s success on regardless of context.

Gunbreaker lost 2 oGCDs that's not exactly the end of the world.
In my opinion it's in a perfect spot, the ammo management evolved in a good way and plays a bigger role in the filler.

DRK's problem is the lack of GCD&oGCDs diversity, even with the new animations, it's kinda disappointing

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I'm gonna say, I don't mind losing Plunge and Rough Divide in a vacuum, but I hate the reasoning behind the replacement. If the reasoning was to remove potencies from all basic melee dashes (Intervene, Onslaught) and JUST MAYBE keep Plunge and Rough Divide as a secondary dash ogcd with maybe an extra effect, that would have been cool.

But the goal was to reduce ogcds on the tanks that are by design ogcd heavy. And now Paladin and Warrior get to retain damage on their dashes, Warrior with Primal Rend even gets to keep two and that is unfair.

Plunge was the original tank dash. Then every tank had to get their dash. Now DRK had to lose damage on theirs. Absolutely nothing DRK had remained sacred. We remain an edgy Warrior with magic shintens and our peak gameplay right now is making the best use of TBN without losing damage.

Yoshida speaks of 8.0 as the expansion to address job identity - I will live with DRK for the next 2.5 years and eagerly await that patch - if for no other reason than to check how they completely lost the plot what made DRK interesting in 3.X and 4.X.

Killing old job elements and replacing it with watered down systems of other jobs and an array of "attack with 120s that has no interaction with your kit other than being cooldown-locked" is not what I and certainly many others wanted for the job that actually had an organic action flow, action enhancements and speed buffs.

Only time will tell. Until then I just hope they will adjust the MP generation we lost with two stacks of blood weapon being removed and that TBN remains stalwart in this position - because the absolute last thing we need is to kill the last unique thing about DRK and make TBN a 25s recast no cost no proc barrier to appeal to barse frogs who lose damage because they're bad at using TBN.

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What I don't get is that combat encourages weaves, However, from StB to the end of Shb Part 1, there is now a big freaking gap there of Ogcds for DRK. And no I'm not using Shadow Stride (screw that move). GNB has continuation to help with this fact. Ogcds give the illusion of speed during weave combos. So why people would want less I don't understand, in my opinion removing ogcds only slows the combat down. Not saying I want my bar to be filled with Ogcds, but they should add to the same button. Or at least remove AD from C&S shared timer. Got one empty space on the first hotbar.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Gunbreaker lost 2 oGCDs that's not exactly the end of the world.
In my opinion it's in a perfect spot, the ammo management evolved in a good way and plays a bigger role in the filler.

DRK's problem is the last of GCD diversity, even with the new animations, it's kinda disappointing

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I like the new animations but they don't even really make noise. They must have fired the SFX team because Disesteem and Shadowstride don't even register to me audibly.

A lot of the changes in vacuum are fine but together they make the heavy APM lose a lot of it's clicks. 5 actions every 2 minutes and 6 every 6 minutes (less mana) is very, very horrible. This means from burst to burst you do few edges of shadow, Salted earth on un-even times before bursts. And 1 Carve and spit. I cannot put into words how much this decreased my enjoyment of the job so much so im seeking another now. While i like having no potency gapclose, we got nothing back for the 4 plunges we had from burst to burst.

I agree with everything in this post, but I wanna add that I miss my gap closer dealing damage. Dungeon pulls are awkward with the new closer.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I like the new animations but they don't even really make noise. They must have fired the SFX team because Disesteem and Shadowstride don't even register to me audibly.

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The saddest part is that the new animations are cut because of Edge of Shadow spam.
This is purely a conjecture but I believe they intend on adjusting DRK&MCH on PLD/DRG level, that this would be an intentional oversight because of future change.