Improving Dawntrail WHM

I already posted this on the Healer strike thread and on it’s discord, but I want to make a WHM thread on the Healer sub-forum.

I think that going into DT, WHM is in a decent spot. There is actually stuff to look forward to this time, unlike in EndWalker. However, there is always room for improvement.

Healing kit is fine. Aside from having Cure I naturally upgrade to Cure II and gaining an action at the level 18-26 range.
- (NEW) The shield timer on the new Divine Caress is too short. It needs to be increased.

As for DPS, we can actually build a mini-rotation using the job’s current DPS kit.

Let’s go over them really quick:

Glare III - Fine As Is
Afflatus Misery - Fine As Is
Dia - 30sec DoT ability
Glare IV - Locked behind a 120sec ability
Holy - Only used in AoE situations.

The problematic DPS actions are Dia, Glare IV, and Holy. These three actions deserve to be used more in WHM’s DPS rotation.

Let’s make some adjustments.

- Shorten Dia’s DoT timer to 15secs. Make WHM press this button more. Potency will have to be adjusted should a change like this occur.

- Decrease Presence of Mind’s CD down from 120secs to 60secs for more Glare IV’s.

- Do not lock Glare IV behind just Presence of Mind. Let WHM use this action more. It can be done in a few ways.

* Introduce a new trait that allows each tick / second of Dia’s DoT timer to proc into Glare IV. This works similarly to BLM’s old Thunder proc ability. For this to work, Glare IV needs to be it’s own button and not locked behind PoM.

* If the above sounds too OP, have Glare IV be a GCD ability with a 20sec CD.

* Have Glare IV be usable after using other actions like Assize and Tetragrammation.

- Enhance Holy into an AoE DoT ability after Presence of Mind is used. This makes Holy, a Final Fantasy staple, usable in a single target rotation for WHM as it’s new “finisher.”

There. A mini-DPS rotation for WHM with no new DPS actions included. The only thing left to do is to have the job gain a weaker version of Glare IV at an early level.

Edit: I understand that some potency nerfs may need to be done for some DPS actions in order for these suggestions to work, but that is something that I can live with.

Feel free to post any other recommendations for WHM.

Give Regen/Medica a proc similar to Thunder proc that frontload's Dia's Dot

Merge Cure 1 and Cure 2, while adjusting the Freecure proc to upgrade Glare 3 into Glare 4

Give Thin Air a trait that can force these procs similar to Sharpcast

Add Protect as a Lily Ability as an AoE mitigation skill on a 60s CD

Add Divine Seal, Stoneskin and Fluid Aura as low level versions of Temperance, Divine Benison and Assize.

the only slight issue I find is that PoM is a powerful healing tool as well. Having it every 60 seconds for Glare IV basically makes it into a damage focused burst ability, seperating Glare IV and giving it like a 25 second CD and have it have 3 charges or something would probably be a better change.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

the only slight issue I find is that PoM is a powerful healing tool as well. Having it every 60 seconds for Glare IV basically makes it into a damage focused burst ability, seperating Glare IV and giving it like a 25 second CD and have it have 3 charges or something would probably be a better change.

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There's no world where you use PoM for healing, it's strictly a tool for DPS.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

DT WHM design sounds near perfect to me. The only thing I'd add is a chance for Dia ticks to proc a Glare 4.

As for things like Regen or Thin Air, or whatever, procing DPS abilities - ugh, a very, very hard no. Why would anyone even think of tying the healing kit to damage? There's a reason SE is removing damage from melee DPS' gap closers.

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If procs from regen made regen uptime a DPS gain then you could heal and do damage with one button, I think that’s a perfectly acceptable idea in a meta that’s scared of healers having complexity because they then might not heal

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

If by complexity you mean mind-numbingly putting regen on every target that doesn't need it until you run out of mana, or wasting Thin Air on DPS and not having it for rez, then sure. Whatever floats your boat

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As opposed to mind numbing pressing glare for 15 minutes

If it’s a choice between completely disconnected healing and damage actions or healing proccing damage and vice versa I’m always going to pick the latter

It wouldn’t even be hard to balance this thereotical scenario, all you would just have to do is make regen+diacloud proc a slight gain over glare but only if the proc is used after say…….12 seconds of dia ticking

So it becomes semi optimal to keep regen up on one person (generally the MT) but spamming regen for diacloud procs would just be a loss as the procs would overwrite each other and you wouldn’t make up the cost of dropping a glare to cast regen

I’m not saying this is the best idea ever but it’s better than what we have now where dia is completely unconnected from the kit despite WHM meant to be mirroring BLM

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

There's no world where you use PoM for healing, it's strictly a tool for DPS.

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In my non-parsing casual raiding group the WHM would use PoM for healing, it can be used for it and should be an option for people less confident in healing. Attaching glare iv to it just fundementally seems like a bad idea to me really gives the vibe to WHMs that if you're not using this ability in this paticular way you are throwing, its like saying you should only use dissipation for the ED dump.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

In my non-parsing casual raiding group the WHM would use PoM for healing, it can be used for it and should be an option for people less confident in healing. Attaching glare iv to it just fundementally seems like a bad idea to me really gives the vibe to WHMs that if you're not using this ability in this paticular way you are throwing, its like saying you should only use dissipation for the ED dump.

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WHM’s healing design just doesn’t work with using POM as a healing tool, it has too long of a CD, it’s too useful as a damage tool and even used as a healing tool it just doesn’t provide that much benefit. It’s biggest benefit would being able to spam something like cure 3 faster but something like harrowing hell or terminal relativity is designed more as a mitigation check

Dissipation is a different beast because it actually has 3 functions (ED dump, spreadlo amplifier and emergency recovery tool in prog)

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

Why would anyone even think of tying the healing kit to damage?

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THAT'S THE ENTIRE LILY SYSTEM????!!!!!!

Genuienly, DT WHM isn't super far off from what I'd like to see. What would I change?

- Dia has a 2.5 second cast time and works like thundercloud on black mage.
- After casting glare 3 three times you get one cast of glare 4
- Every three casts of glare 4 grants "enhanced holy 3" increasing the damage of holy 3 by 300%.
- (free space) Freecure reworked: Cure 1 upgrades to cure 2
- Protect added. Consumes 1 lily. Grants a 300 potency barrier to all party members.

That's all I'd do. DT WHM will probably be fairly fun. Locking G4 behind a 2 minute cooldown is sorta weird, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

Not at all. The blood lily is DPS neutral. It deals the damage of exactly 4 GCDs worth of Glare III - 3 healing lilies and the blood lily itself. You could disregard the entire system and not cast any lily abilities and you wouldn't lose any damage.

If the healing kit was actually tied to damage, it would require the blood lily to deal more damage than 4xGlare III. That in turn would require us to use healing lilies before they cap at 3, even if we don't need them and the target was at full health, simply so we don't lose on extra damage. The opposite scenario is also true, it would make us disregard using healing lilies for healing when we need them, so we have a blood lily ready to go for the 2 minute burst. This would be an entire can of worms that doesn't need to be opened.

Like I said, utility abilities being tied to damage is already an issue with other jobs - so much so that Square is largely decoupling them in DT. Why would you want to pick up someone else's trash?

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Misery is a DPS gain because it allows you to push more glare casts into the burst window than you otherwise would be able to so it 100% is a DPS gain

Example say in the burst window you can either cast 8 glare, 1 dia and 1 misery or 9 glare and 1 dia the first option is 100% a DPS Gain because you are “moving 3 glares from outside the burst window into the burst window”

I'm pushing this thread up due to the recent news from Yoshi-P. WHM was not mentioned. Though the job has "slightly" improved in DT, it still needs some adjustments in order for it to play better.

SE, please consider the changes mentioned on this thread as well as a few extra points that I added on this post as I believe it will benefit the Job as a whole.
- Have Cure I naturally upgrade to Cure II
- Increase the Shield timer on Divine Caress. 10secs is too short
- Reduce the recast time of Presence of Mind from 120secs to 60secs.
- Have Glare IV be usable outside of Presence of Mind. You can either let it be it's own separate GCD ability with a 20sec CD, have Dia potentially proc into the ability, or have the ability be usable after using such actions like Assize and Tetragrammation.
- Reduce the duration of Aero / Dia to 15 seconds and adjust it's potency to compensate.

There are more improvements I'd like to see and are covered on the first page, but the suggestions above should be easier to implement.

In what world would you hit PoM and then not immediately start casting Glare IV? Reason I ask is that - to me at least - I'd rather have Glare III be the button that changes to Glare IV, not the PoM button.

Edit: I suppose having both III and IV available gives you flexibility. IV when mobility needed, III when not.

Whm needs either Pom on 60 seconds and bump the duration also up to 20 seconds. Why are all other self buffs 20 seconds now but Pom isn’t. They really didn’t cook again with healer. Maybe make glare iv a procc and not tied to pom

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

There's no world where you use PoM for healing, it's strictly a tool for DPS.

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Everytime I'm forced to use PoM for healing, I know that parties like this is why healers weren't deleted. Also, that's a new post at tales of DF.

Why not giving cure 1 1.5sec gcd instead of 1.5 sec cast ? That way, it will heal a little bit more than cure 2 par sec (333 power/sec for Cure 1 and 320 power/sec for Cure 2) and even cost less (267 mp/sec for cure 1 and 533 mp/sec for Cure 2).

If we increase cure 1 cost to 450mp, it will cost slighty more than benefic 2 per second. (300 mp/sec for cure 1 and 280 mp/sec for benefic 2)
At this point, let’s reduce cure 2 cost to 700mp so it’s less weaker than benefic 2. (same mp cost and power but still longer cast time)

Tbh those are rather honest addition and would indeed be welcomed.

I'm unsure about Dia being 15s unless the duration could stack back to 30s... I don't know how more interesting of a spell it'd become by having a shorter duration.
One thing for sure it'd enhance whm mobility. But I suppose it can't be worse than 30s DoT which I forget to refresh half the time because i'm spamming the same button.

I feel like a bit more would be nice. Even holy part of the regular rotation would be nice as a bigger spell like 2.5-3s cast/recast and not just a finisher. Altough a finisher would definitely be nice.

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Originally Posted by Jidka

Why not giving cure 1 1.5sec gcd instead of 1.5 sec cast ? That way, it will heal a little bit more than cure 2 par sec (333 power/sec for Cure 1 and 320 power/sec for Cure 2) and even cost less (267 mp/sec for cure 1 and 533 mp/sec for Cure 2).

If we increase cure 1 cost to 450mp, it will cost slighty more than benefic 2 per second. (300 mp/sec for cure 1 and 280 mp/sec for benefic 2)
At this point, let’s reduce cure 2 cost to 700mp so it’s less weaker than benefic 2. (same mp cost and power but still longer cast time)

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Probably because it's GCD inefficient still, which just takes up hotbar space. For the amount of time you're spending to heal with cure 1, you have far more skills that can be used for healing (Regen, Medica II, Afflatus Solace, Tetragrammaton, Asylum, Benediction, etc.) so the skill just becomes far more weaker due to the vast spread of options available as you go higher in level. It doesn't lend itself to becoming stronger in the toolkit because we just have too many that can replace the need for Cure 1. Those other skills can cost far less MP as well (costing 0 MP with lilies or 0 MP + unaffected by GCD with oGCD healing). There's just not enough benefit to Cure 1's adjustment unless you just remove all the future oGCD skills on WHM.

I agree that in current fights, there are many better options than cure 1 or cure 2.

I was just thinking of a way to make cure 1 as GCD efficient than cure 2.

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Originally Posted by Jidka

I agree that in current fights, there are many better options than cure 1 or cure 2.

I was just thinking of a way to make cure 1 as GCD efficient than cure 2.

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Frankly it's hard to find the middleground that is "better than today's Cure I" AND "worse than today's Cure II" for the button.

For once I entertained the idea of having Cure I from lv82 and beyond getting a trait that turns the button into an instant cast, MP free, and cuts lily timer by 3s per cast. But even that is going to be ignored entirely during uptimes.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Frankly it's hard to find the middleground that is "better than today's Cure I" AND "worse than today's Cure II" for the button.

For once I entertained the idea of having Cure I from lv82 and beyond getting a trait that turns the button into an instant cast, MP free, and cuts lily timer by 3s per cast. But even that is going to be ignored entirely during uptimes.

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The only way I could ever see a middle ground for Cure 1 and Cure 2 is if they attached a DPS component to the skill. If they added something like Fluid Aura as an oGCD follow up after Cure 1, even if it doesn't match Stone/Glare in terms of potency, it would still be less of a DPS loss than just firing off a raw Cure 2.

If it had Aero III, and maybe a dia and/or regen proc, I believe it would be great.
Maybe have Holy be on 1.5 rather than the full 2.5 would be nice to avoid clipping with Assize, but frankly? I can't think about much else.

A triplecast equivalent would be neat too I guess.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

- Decrease Presence of Mind’s CD down from 120secs to 60secs for more Glare IV’s.

- Do not lock Glare IV behind just Presence of Mind. Let WHM use this action more. It can be done in a few ways.

- Enhance Holy into an AoE DoT ability after Presence of Mind is used. This makes Holy, a Final Fantasy staple, usable in a single target rotation for WHM as it’s new “finisher.”

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https://media.tenor.com/00TM2XzyNrUA...-this-fire.png

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The only way I could ever see a middle ground for Cure 1 and Cure 2 is if they attached a DPS component to the skill. If they added something like Fluid Aura as an oGCD follow up after Cure 1, even if it doesn't match Stone/Glare in terms of potency, it would still be less of a DPS loss than just firing off a raw Cure 2.

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I mean they could simple make Cure1 potency go from 400 to 700 when you learn Cure2
and make Cure2 a 30s and give it a 1500 potency.

This way both become relevant. You cannot say "Never use Cure1" because Cure2 while better has a 30s. CureIII could see the same treatment to differenciate it a bit more than Medica2 by giving it a 1min CD

And for a really simple fix for Cure 2 and Cure 1: Provide reasons to spam-cast GCD heals, including single-target.

(We'd also find out why we still have Cure 1 and Benefic 1, namely we'd run out of mana otherwise)

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Originally Posted by Carighan

And for a really simple fix for Cure 2 and Cure 1: Provide reasons to spam-cast GCD heals, including single-target.

(We'd also find out why we still have Cure 1 and Benefic 1, namely we'd run out of mana otherwise)

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The hilarious thing is that the god awful SB lily system didn’t actually have a flawed design, its problem was that the game doesn’t justify using the system how the devs obviously envisioned it

If you were casting cure 1/2 like you were in coils then the SB lily system would have actually been decently engaging

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I mean they could simple make Cure1 potency go from 400 to 700 when you learn Cure2
and make Cure2 a 30s and give it a 1500 potency.

This way both become relevant. You cannot say "Never use Cure1" because Cure2 while better has a 30s. CureIII could see the same treatment to differenciate it a bit more than Medica2 by giving it a 1min CD

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This is just the Lily System.