Paladin class needs more healing spells..

I am kinda bummed that a Paladin does not get a healing spell till lv58 Clemancy....

I would have liked to see it like it is in Final Fantasy 4 Cecil as a paladin could use low - mid tier White magic :D

Pre-Lv58 you are more appropriately a "Knight", which is the japanese job name - Paladin is the localized name. You have most defensive actions learned prior to this level and can help a target in a pinch with [Cover]. For those level ranges, I actually recommend using healing potions (HQ Max-Potion) for pinch healing.

Lv56+ you actually receive many holy-, healing- and paladin-themed additions and upgrades:

Lv56: [Divine Veil] -> AOE group shield
Lv58: [Clemency] -> healing spell for self and targets
Lv64: [Holy Spirit] -> holy attack spell for one target
Lv68: [Requiescat] -> holy attack ability enabling more effective use of attack spells
Lv72: [Holy Circle] -> holy attack spell for multiple targets
Lv80: [Confiteor] -> a high-burst holy attack spell
Lv82: [Holy Sheltron] + [Enhanced Intervention] -> upgrades to your defenses + granting regen heals
Lv84: [Divine Magic Mastery II] -> grants selfheals for using attack spells
Lv88: [Enhanced Divine Veil] -> grants Divine Veil further group healing on top of shields
Lv90: [Blade of Valor combo] -> paladin-themed spell-finisher combo

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Originally Posted by MelchiorGaspar

I am kinda bummed that a Paladin does not get a healing spell till lv58 Clemancy....

I would have liked to see it like it is in Final Fantasy 4 Cecil as a paladin could use low - mid tier White magic :D

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Yeah we need more healing so we don't want healers exist

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Originally Posted by MelchiorGaspar

I am kinda bummed that a Paladin does not get a healing spell till lv58 Clemancy....

I would have liked to see it like it is in Final Fantasy 4 Cecil as a paladin could use low - mid tier White magic :D

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That's literally what Clemency is - a "low-mid tier White magic."

I play PLD when i am not playing healer and in my humblest of opinions, Clemency must be the only healing PLDs should have access to as it is more than enough. If it werent for the half convalescence rampart will get in DT, i would suggest to replace the regen from Holy Sheltron and replace it with convalescence effect.

And to be clear, all passive healing from its offendive spells need to be removed, as well.

Its true that Knight/Paladin has limited white magic access in other games of this Franchise but with the current class design more heals would be irresponsible and would lead to even more frustration on healer side.

I would also rather add that Dark Knights identity as Drain Tank would need to be restored. Which is a part of it that got lost entirely and got absorbed by the warrior for some reason.

I feel as if Paladin has a decent amount of healing it's just not all in the Right Areas to me it doesn't make sense that Paladin has healing on Magic attacks, I much rather remove that and have a ogcd target heal (around 800-1200 potency) once per minute, which would put it inline with gunbreaker outside of veil other then that I think its healing would be fairly fine.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I play PLD when i am not playing healer and in my humblest of opinions, Clemency must be the only healing PLDs should have access to as it is more than enough. If it werent for the half convalescence rampart will get in DT, i would suggest to replace the regen from Holy Sheltron and replace it with convalescence effect.

And to be clear, all passive healing from its offendive spells need to be removed, as well.

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This is just untrue, Healing effects are fine on non healer jobs. Removing all healing from non healer jobs doesn't suddenly fix healer outside making them cast put a ogcd once or twice, The content should actually account for tanks strong mitigation and decent sustain effects instead of "lets just remove sustain" This arguement is very tiring because it hinges on the fact that taking away tools from jobs such as Paladin would actually make healer better... it really wouldn't improve them that much, its a encounter issue

Paladin's healing isn't that powerful outside the magic attacks, which personally I don't even think fits the job, if you took that away and kept the regen effect on Paladin it wouldn't even be that strong. The regen is about 175 potency (when you take account that PLD and other tanks dont have the maim and mend passive), which only lasts 12 seconds, are we really going to point out how this of all things makes Paladin "invalidate healers" if a weak regen like that on a non healer can truly invalidate them then again it's a issue with the content design itself. Sustain isn't a massive issue (other then warrior) as it's being shown as... it can be reduced yes, but not all forms of sustain or target healing has to go.

I'm speaking only for PLD. Also this obsession with oGCD healing should not be the answer to everything. Clemency, being a GCD heal, is a cost you have to pay and is perfecty fine. Giving it an oGCD heal removes said choice as it will always be available and can be weaved anytime. It will only be a problem, if PLD's oGCD weaving is strict and choosing the oGCD heal will incur a hit on their performance.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I'm speaking only for PLD.

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Then why are you against the holy knight who uses white magic having some self and target healing? why is it more fitting for other tanks to be able to heal the party target member more effectively then a paladin???

Huh? I merely stated that Clemency should be the only healing PLD should have access to.. did i mention anything about hate? Don't get way ahead of yourself there.

Back when PLD has traited 30% Convalescence exclusive to them and a very expensive Clemency MP cost, they are still able to do good self-sustain. I am the last person who'd wish for Clemency's removal. But we all know how broken WAR is at the moment with all of its healing. I don't want PLD go that route.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I'm speaking only for PLD. Also this obsession with oGCD healing should not be the answer to everything. Clemency, being a GCD heal, is a cost you have to pay and is perfecty fine. Giving it an oGCD heal removes said choice as it will always be available and can be weaved anytime. It will only be a problem, if PLD's oGCD weaving is strict and choosing the oGCD heal will incur a hit on their performance.

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Then why are you against the holy knight who uses white magic having some self and target healing? why is it more fitting for other tanks to be able to heal the party target member more effectively then a paladin???

Clemency is a button you press it when emergency that's it; Having ogcd cooldowns to help manage gives Paladin a sense of actually being able to contribute in a meaningfulway, theirs a choice in that as you have to expend a resource for healing on self or a target.

Not saying the current design is perfect but I rather PLD have target healing that isn't just clemency, clemency is a nice skill in emergencies and still is it's usage hasn't really changed outside now paladin has consistent sustain and decent target regens, but sometimes you will need that burst healing effect.

If other tanks can target players and give them sustain as a OGCD then so should PLD have that option, that or every tank should only have gcd healing because having one tank that loses damage to sustain will always put paladin at a massive disadvantage.

Isnt clemency already filling in the Self-healing amd target healing?

GCD healing is for emergency? You are going to deliberately go out of your way to heal... how is it an emergency? If anything, oGCDs are.

And for the last time, stop insinuating that i hate PLD. I implore you stalk my post history and see if there are anything, even remotely, me hating on PLD.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Huh? I merely stated that Clemency should be the only healing PLD should have access to.. did i mention anything about hate? Don't get way ahead of yourself there.

Back when PLD has traited 30% Convalescence exclusive to them and a very expensive Clemency MP cost, they are still able to do good self-sustain. I am the last person who'd wish for Clemency's removal. But we all know how broken WAR is at the moment with all of its healing. I don't want PLD go that route.

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I would like it to keep it's regen on holy sheltron/intervention personally I think that's fairly balanced, as I pointed out I don't think a regen that is equivalent to 175 potency on a healer that lasts for 12s is as busted as WAR. I do think we can safely remove its healing on magic attacks (personally i'd like some small extra sustain so it doesn't fall behind gunbreaker). All I'm asking here is paladin should at least have healing on par with gunbreaker (as its currently a bit ahead).

Warrior has healing tied to every defensive cooldown now is a outlier Paladin was actually the only tank to not get extra healing this expansion because they got a barrier (which is more mitigation), I think if anything Warrior is the issue here and that Paladin isn't really the biggest concern outside adjusting its sustain away from magic attacks.

I'm fine with rampart having a Convalescence effect, I just think the idea is that it benefits tanks in disproportionation mainly it's going to be really good on warrior.

EDIT:
I'm not saying you hate paladin, nor am I trying to insinuate that I think you're just against it having healing on par with other tanks because you really don't want it to have any form of sustain outside of clemency, clemency also is a dps loss unlike other tanks, I think if you want pld to lose damage to just have sustain then you should think other tanks should follow suit... no?

Considering that PLD is the only tank that has passive reduction via blocking... i know parry (GNB ability that increases parry rate but not Bulwark level) still exists but shield blocks happen more often and are more potent. Giving it more healing received, not only greatly improving the effectiveness of Clemency when casted on themselves, but it will also make the actual role suited for healing to do their job by making theirs do more healing.

The regen most of the times, tick, when i am at full HP, wasting it. If i play healer and let the PLD's Holy Sheltron regen tick, it is taken against me and they Clemency themselves. If the effect of Holy Sheltron was changed from regen to increased healing received, then we'll get rid of this situation.

Finally, i have to wait and see how Guardian giving a 1000p self barrier will fare as when tanks get better gear, they might reach 200k max hp.. that in itself is a spreadlo in my book (Guwrdian + Divine Veil). Now imagine it stacking with the actual crit spreadlo?

I don't want to talk about WAR in more depth here as it isn't the thread for us to do so.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I'm not saying you hate paladin, nor am I trying to insinuate that I think you're just against it having healing on par with other tanks because you really don't want it to have any form of sustain outside of clemency, clemency also is a dps loss unlike other tanks, I think if you want pld to lose damage to just have sustain then you should think other tanks should follow suit... no?

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Other tanks must have theirs adjusted too. I am only focusing on PLD as thr thread is about PLD healing, after all. This isn't the thread to discuss theirs.
https://i.imgur.com/4zKCe7Q.jpeg
Maybe over there, perhaps?

Last thing we need is less job identity in this game. The Paladin healing stays, period.

Clemency is a emergency healing because you are, playing properly, never going to use it outside of an emergency because of the GCD cost.

Reactive healing =/= emergency healing. You don't "save" oGCDs on healers for emergencies either, that's what the GCD heals are for.