RATING SYSTEM SUGGESTION

Did you come across this post and ask what's going on ?
I want to ask everyone in advance that I am absolutely not interested in a reply to this post along the lines of "No it won't work, they'll never add it to the game, I don't want it, etc".
If we let go of the negativity and look at the design issue holistically and together we can reach some consensus.


So what kind of RATING would that be ?

Some players in this game lack a reason to improve.
Yes it's about the style they play and there are methods from the developers themselves to help players improve on spell rotation for example.
Nothing against what has been there so far.
It's awesome and it works.
It still lacks a touch of motivation in my opinion.

So what is the motivation and will such a change hurt anyone ?

My suggestion if applied to the game would not hurt or harm anyone.
On the contrary.
It would just bring motivation to those who really want to be a little bit better or want to have some reason to improve.

In some other games (mostly older ones) after completing a level,instance whether it is a dungeon,raid or training mission after completing a player is graded with a scale ...whether it is for the best completion threshold marked with an S or a grade calculated in numbers like it is for example in the PoTD leaderboard.

How about applying a similar way of rating what a person really deserves and implement in the game absolutely to all instances in the duty finder and so on something like a leaderboard and then reward the player with a message "you were better than say 30% of the players, keep it up!"
Such a message would only be seen on the player's screen and would be calculated for the player.

A very similar system is for example in League of Legends (MOBA) where levels can be achieved with each character and then the player sees how much percentage they have improved by against others.
From time to time he gets a report that he has improved for that season.
I'm not saying that this exact system as it is in this game could be implemented in Final Fantasy XIV but let's develop a little imagination into the design and improve it.

Thank you to everyone contributing to the comments for trying to improve this idea or if they disagree with this idea simply and simply leave the topic and leave a negative opinion that doesn't move the idea/consideration forward for themselves.

There's already a rating system in Lapis Manalis. The second boss's death speech will rank your party and ...well, nobody seems to ever care or try for top rank. :(

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

they'll never add it to the game

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Unfortunately, though it's a response you don't want, it's the response you'll get.

From what I've gathered, it's against the rules to be critical of another player's performance unless prompted for feedback. While you won't be automodded for it, the recipient can report you, and your account can be actioned for it.

This is Square's stance on the topic, and it is unlikely to change.

While I'm not opposed to a DMC/FFXIII-style ranking system (as a casual player with undoubtedly poor parses, I wouldn't mind the game being more in my face about it)...

I am pretty sure the devs would tune it so low that it wouldn't matter. It would undermine years of designing to avoid hurting casual players' feelings.

It was to be expected that there would be someone whose intelligence falls short of understanding the written text. No one in the post wanted to rate the players in any way so that they could argue who was better or not. That's why I wanted to start this discussion about how it could be done with Rating and look for ways to implement it, not reasons why it couldn't be done. Thus the door from this thread is near the header and goodbye.

I would disagree. Motivation is only half the factor. If players aren't enticed by a 15-17 minute dungeon versus a 25-30 minute dungeon then they probably aren't going to pay attention the ranking system if it doesn't amount to anything beyond a pat on the back.

The game needs to put players in a position where they have to improve - Even just relative to the content they are doing. If players aren't in that position then a lot of them won't improve. Players that aren't improving under the current system aren't going to start improving because they got a pat on the back from a score screen.

Instead of a ranking system, it would probably be better to have duty-specific goals/achievements, e.g., "Kill Merciless Matriarch: Rukshs Dheem in Anamnesis Anyder without spawning an avoidable Queen's Harpooner" - Or you can have one on the flipside for "Kill Merciless Matriarch: Rukshs Dheem in Anamnesis Anyder whilst spawning all possible Queen's Harpooner (dependent on kill time)" - Then you are encouraging people to clear the duties in specific or creative ways, versus a... "You completed Tower of Zot in 15 minutes (sync'd) - Rank Achieved: S Rank"

I'm just against people who don't understand the assignment in the text. Just as I will be against you. I wrote that I have your opinion whether you like the proposal or not where the sun does not shine. Still, there are a bunch of people here who don't have the decency to understand that I was trying to develop a discussion on how to implement such a Rating system into the game to motivate and not hurt players instead of looking for reasons why it wouldn't work.

Next!

You don't pay my sub.

/s

IMO unnecessary.

Dungeons are 4man but you can really complete it with just 2-3 people tbh. Same with trials, you can complete with 5-7. Hell, even UWU and UCOB can be completed with 7 people with 1 person on the floor.

What I'm saying is there is no strong need to impose a level/standard of gameplay on players when the game isn't that strict to begin with. FFXIV is a story RPG like the other core titles before it is an MMO. They will not add any kind of features that will discourage the casuals.

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

I'm just against people who don't understand the assignment in the text. Just as I will be against you. I wrote that I have your opinion whether you like the proposal or not where the sun does not shine. Still, there are a bunch of people here who don't have the decency to understand that I was trying to develop a discussion on how to implement such a Rating system into the game to motivate and not hurt players instead of looking for reasons why it wouldn't work.

Next!

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This is discussion forum, not an agree with you forum. If people don't like your idea they are free to post about it. If you don't want that, don't post here.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

There's already a rating system in Lapis Manalis. The second boss's death speech will rank your party and ...well, nobody seems to ever care or try for top rank. :(

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It's funny that you brought this one up because, iirc, the only way to get the top rank is with a 3dps+tank comp (I actually did this when the dungeon dropped, and I could only do it with pots, a specific comp and no healer, I'm quite confident it's impossible with a healer in the party). I wonder if the devs messed up the scaling or did that intentionally.
If the latter, well... *chuckles while eyeing the Healer strike thread*

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

(snip)

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As for the topic, I guarantee you that this will either be public and misused, or private and... it will still likely only bring negativity. I don't think this is the right approach to this problem at all- improvement must be a fun (and optional) path. The game would do better by reconstituting an enjoyable skill ceiling to jobs and most content. I improve because the journey is fun, and the results give me contentment. I doubt I'd have the motivation if the game told me I suck on the end screen of a raid.

It's not that I mind that someone disagrees with me but apparently you can't read either. I just wanted people to engage their minds together to figure out how such a Rating could be implemented into the game if anyone wanted it at all. Instead of the community here starting to think about how it could be done, there are a bunch of less understanding people who can't understand that I'm completely uninterested in their crying about why it couldn't be done and finding reasons why it couldn't be done.

[QUOTE As for the topic, I guarantee you that this will either be public and misused, or private and... it will still likely only bring negativity. I don't think this is the right approach to this problem at all- improvement must be a fun (and optional) path. The game would do better by reconstituting an enjoyable skill ceiling to jobs and most content. I improve because the journey is fun, and the results give me contentment. I doubt I'd have the motivation if the game told me I suck on the end screen of a raid.[/QUOTE]

No it's the fact that any suggestion for change you post on the forum there are 90% of horribly hurt people even if the suggestion or idea itself didn't hurt anyone they are canned so much that they would rather not release another expansion to the game and let the game community die out. Unfortunately, that's the way it is here on the forum. So again and clearly I want to ask everyone to pull away if they have a tendency to express themselves negatively or put down an idea as opposed to thinking how it could be implemented.

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

I'm just against people who don't understand the assignment in the text. Just as I will be against you. I wrote that I have your opinion whether you like the proposal or not where the sun does not shine. Still, there are a bunch of people here who don't have the decency to understand that I was trying to develop a discussion on how to implement such a Rating system into the game to motivate and not hurt players instead of looking for reasons why it wouldn't work.

Next!

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and I am against people who don't encourage an open discussion irrespective of whether they find the proposal a good idea or not. As someone said, this is not an "I agree with you" forum. It's an open forum where people are welcomed to engage with the discussion in question, regardless of what parameters you want to try and dictate for the discussion. Whether you like this fact or not the 'sun is still going to shine', this is something that works both ways.

If you are looking to introduce a system you don't exclusively look for reasons as to why it would work, and try and scrape and claw the feature into the game. You need to understand why such a feature wouldn't work, and what systems might be better to introduce instead, much like a proposed with duty-specific goals and achievements.

You're sabotaging your own thread anyway, good job!

It's funny that you still don't understand the written text. Simply thinking about how a system might work is different from looking for reasons why it might not work. Please learn to read first and then comment so you don't continue to make a fool of yourself.

Next!

If people want to improve then they'll look up guides/vods for rotations and more difficult content or go to ""outside platforms"" to look up the numbers. Ranking systems already exist in different ways in the game.

You already mentioned Deep Dungeons which is fine. There's also PVP ranked and technically Lapis Manalis.

You will also run into the issue that is already prevalent in many discussions on the forum: job simplicity and lack of identity, "preferred" party compositions and the "2 minute meta". It will result in an abject "best way" to play a job which has the logical thorough-line of killing creativity within the job as there is only one way to play it to make number go up.

Additionally, think about how unsyncing and min ilvl would have an impact on these numbers. What about limited jobs?

Also see other comments brought up about the numbers or ranking being used to justify allowing people to participate in content and potentially contributing to more hostility and bullying because of arbitrary numbers.

FF14 is a casual MMO focused on story with other non-required side activities. The target demographic right now are people who don't have a lot of time to play and want to do stuff to unwind. There's no need to add the stress of numbers at the end of easy encounter dungeons.

Regardless of the intent of the thread to spark "positive" ideas of implementation, you have to consider all perspectives in these sorts of discussions, good and bad. If you're not willing to hear negative feedback then you're going to end up with short-sighted analysis of systems that, should at their core, look to drive player engagement and fun but result in the opposite.

So I respectfully disagree with wanting to posit only positive ideas to implement a feature that won't consider the full scope of what it means to implement such design.

Besides, it's already been mentioned that having specific "achievements" within dungeons, like "kill x before x happens", will prompt a lot more fun and engagement and replayability for dungeons then "you did this big number! here is your rank".

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

It's funny that you still don't understand the written text. Simply thinking about how a system might work is different from looking for reasons why it might not work. Please learn to read first and then comment so you don't continue to make a fool of yourself.

Next!

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I'd give you a mirror but you would probably miss what it was showing you.

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

It's funny that you still don't understand the written text. Simply thinking about how a system might work is different from looking for reasons why it might not work. Please learn to read first and then comment so you don't continue to make a fool of yourself.

Next!

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Just like you elected not to read mine.

I am not here to follow your restrictions. Again, it is an open forum, and people are welcomed to engage in any discussion regardless of what you dictate or feel is right. Looking at how a system might work, and why it might not work are both intrinsically tied, regardless of your own personal feelings on the matter. There is simply isn't a sufficient enough merit established around the system. Heck, I even tried to propose an alternative in order to encourage discussion... - But alas, you're more concerned in engaging with meta-discussion.

Just because you try and establish a ruleset around your discussion it doesn't mean people are obligated to follow the aforementioned rules.

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

It was to be expected that there would be someone whose intelligence falls short of understanding the written text. No one in the post wanted to rate the players in any way so that they could argue who was better or not. That's why I wanted to start this discussion about how it could be done with Rating and look for ways to implement it, not reasons why it couldn't be done. Thus the door from this thread is near the header and goodbye.

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Unfortunately for you, this is Square Enix's forum and not yours. You do not get to dictate who can and who can't participate in a thread.

Thus, anyone who ignores some set written rule for the outcome of the discussion I've tried to have here ends up proving interesting values in their own right. Ignorance at a high level. Don't forget to add afterwards that it's my fault I can't debate. I'm laughing at you wasting your time and making yourself ....ehm... by commenting on something that was clearly stated in the thread.

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

Thus, anyone who ignores some set written rule for the outcome of the discussion I've tried to have here ends up proving interesting values in their own right. Ignorance at a high level. Don't forget to add afterwards that it's my fault I can't debate. I'm laughing at you wasting your time and making yourself ....ehm... by commenting on something that was clearly stated in the thread.

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I am glad you realize where the fault. Just look at the common factor with the below points.

- You tried to limit the discussion around tvery specific parameters, which largely only aims to serve an "agree with me" purpose.
- You were more concerned in trying to condescend those in the thread for not indulging in your limiting parameters.
- You were more concerned with trying to engage in meta-discussion around your topic.
- You are conflating intelligence and reading comprehension with a deliberate act of ignoring those rules.

You're laughing at the fact you have not made the distinction between poor reading comprehension and a deliberate act of ignoring your fictitious meta-discussion rules? OK.

OP:

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

It's not that I mind that someone disagrees with me but apparently you can't read either. I just wanted people to engage their minds together to figure out how such a Rating could be implemented into the game if anyone wanted it at all.

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Also OP:

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Originally Posted by ThomasOfEger

I want to ask everyone in advance that I am absolutely not interested in a reply to this post along the lines of "No it won't work, they'll never add it to the game, I don't want it, etc"

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Can you pick a side please?