They are doubling down the gameplay simplification... really?

So with the media tour lifted the changes are almost meaningless and not only that but doesn't feel like a new thing how most jobs are, they all are the same job with different skins wich is really disappointing.

There is a specific thread about BLM but is crazy how BLM was the most affected this expansion and very sad cuz probably was the only surviving job that had some flexibility on its rotation and required some thinking in certain situations but now like all the remaining jobs is just one unique rotation that is honestly very boring, and this is clearly aimed to make it easy on ppl to learn or play the game but is that honestly what ppl need? To numb it down so bad? Why not put an actual decent tutorial? I dont think ppl need a super easy game, they need to know what is a stack marker what is a tank buster, how different this attacks looks, how a pair stack looks, and yes the game does teach you that through the MSQ but under that logic the MSQ is just a big ass tutorial that teach you one or two mechs each expansion that's not good at all.

The content in EW was super easy to begin with, now doing the jobs this easy as well doesn't seem very good.

Imagine being a new player and going to aglaia and miss 60% of the fight cuz:

1. The players destroy the bosses cuz how easy it is or almost non existing mechs
2. The 2 minute burst makes the fights and boss burn so fast that you skip bunch of mechs
3. You dont even need to play good to skip mechs

If I was a new player and later find out that Nald Thal had one amazing cutscene that I never saw cuz the boss died in a snap I wouldn't consider that a good gaming experience.

They said they were going to make the bosses "harder" and not to fall asleep on them and I do really hope so cuz with the new job design in DT there is no other choice

The only gameplay engagement you want from FFXIV are now can be only found from High-End Content such as Extreme, Criterion, Savage and Ultimate, I afraid.

Streamlining the jobs means you can now jump right into high-end content with as little time possible needed to practice and perfect your job's rotation.

As for the mid-core content like Dawntrail's field operation, I don't trust CBU3 to get it right given their current track record.

Not to rain on Anybody's parade but didn't we all know this. He stated there will be no real job changes till 8.0

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

Not to rain on Anybody's parade but didn't we all know this. He stated there will be no real job changes till 8.0

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I think people had some copium that they would add a skill or two usable during downtime between the 2-minute burst phase, so we're not just pressing 1-2-3 for 1.5 minutes.

Instead, these devs made quite the decision to add combos to the 2-minute cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Zadood

The only gameplay engagement you want from FFXIV are now can be only found from High-End Content such as Extreme, Criterion, Savage and Ultimate, I afraid.

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Healers not included.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

Not to rain on Anybody's parade but didn't we all know this. He stated there will be no real job changes till 8.0

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I get that what I don't understand is why they have to make the game more braindead than what already is for another 2-3 years why they have to make the jobs underwhelming boring. All the tanks are now warrior, the melee have crazy regens, and healers just one more button to spam, BLM was a job I played alot in EW savages but they removed all the fun from the job

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

Not to rain on Anybody's parade but didn't we all know this. He stated there will be no real job changes till 8.0

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inb4 when 8.0 comes along he'll move goalposts and say Identity is coming 9.0.

Small indie company pls understand.

*meanwhile in Granblue Fantasy has it in spades*

The best casual content they've made in a long while was the Variant dungeons.
But those more or less died off as people got their rewards and had no reason to keep going.


And the only jobs allowed to have any kind of identity are the DPS and Warrior.

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Originally Posted by AurisNix

I get that what I don't understand is why they have to make the game more braindead than what already is for another 2-3 years why they have to make the jobs underwhelming boring. All the tanks are now warrior, the melee have crazy regens, and healers just one more button to spam, BLM was a job I played alot in EW savages but they removed all the fun from the job

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It makes sense when you realize they only have 4(?) creatively bankrupt job-team developers, and a game producer and director that has seemingly checked out while having no clue how to make a RPG or MMO.

They have no fire outside of graphics/art of the game. Everything else like gameplay content? Nah, as some have said, they've checked out from the game. Look forward to real content almost 4 years from now.
By the way, for anyone waiting on dawntrail's field operation content just be aware that's 1.5 years away in patch 7.3, in 2026.

I'm fascinated by the take that the jobs are streamlined when their tooltips are massive and overly convoluted. I think part of the problem is that they've made the abilities overly complicated in a way that doesn't allow for mixing-and-matching. They're preconstructed toys, not LEGO bricks and they really need to be the latter. Right now, they're really difficult to understand just from the tooltips alone. If the pieces are overly complex, they're only going to be effectively configured into the one thing they were designed for.

I feel like they've stripped so the battle system and in response, put that complexity into the abilities themselves. Interplay is lost and the jobs feel diminished as a result.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

Not to rain on Anybody's parade but didn't we all know this. He stated there will be no real job changes till 8.0

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People thinking there will be major changes in 8.0 is just massive copium. You can more or less predict the way it'll be due to how VPR and PCT work in terms of skills, aka how one skill replaces another and you just press the glowy button. That's 8.0.

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Originally Posted by Sjol

I'm fascinated by the take that the jobs are streamlined when their tooltips are massive and overly convoluted. I think part of the problem is that they've made the abilities overly complicated in a way that doesn't allow for mixing-and-matching. They're preconstructed toys, not LEGO bricks and they really need to be the latter. Right now, they're really difficult to understand just from the tooltips alone. If the pieces are overly complex, they're only going to be effectively configured into the one thing they were designed for.

I feel like they've stripped so the battle system and in response, putted that complexity into the abilities themselves. Interplay is lost and the jobs feel diminished as a result.

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Yeah, you know which job has the most convoluted tooltips in Endwalker currently? Summoner (which is also very intimidating for new players amusingly).

Makes you think.


Either way I do agree with your point. I've come to the same conclusion that they constantly remove any failure state or things to manage, or any choice to do during rotations so that everything plays on its own. It's literally preconstructed toys.

The idea that somebody got paid to design 8.0 summoner is embarrassing .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sjol

I'm fascinated by the take that the jobs are streamlined when their tooltips are massive and overly convoluted. I think part of the problem is that they've made the abilities overly complicated in a way that doesn't allow for mixing-and-matching. They're preconstructed toys, not LEGO bricks and they really need to be the latter. Right now, they're really difficult to understand just from the tooltips alone. If the pieces are overly complex, they're only going to be effectively configured into the one thing they were designed for.

I feel like they've stripped so the battle system and in response, putted that complexity into the abilities themselves. Interplay is lost and the jobs feel diminished as a result.

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The tooltips are convoluted exactly because of job simplification. A lot of these interdependencies and actions leading to other more nested effects mean the tooltips have to be essay-length to cover all the stuff that's been automated and tied to 1 button press instead of spread out amongst all actions.

Yeah, I knew that we wouldn't expect a lot of mechanic novelty in 7.0 but some jobs play exactly the same sans one button press of an action that becomes available during the 2min burst.

Yoshi-P did talk about adding some kind of talent trees in a media tour interview and I feel that is the key giving players a more complex rotation. I think there should be a "causal" talent tree and a "complex" talent tree similar to Swtor. That way the devs can give everyone a choice.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

People thinking there will be major changes in 8.0 is just massive copium. You can more or less predict the way it'll be due to how VPR and PCT work in terms of skills, aka how one skill replaces another and you just press the glowy button. That's 8.0.

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So basically continuation for gnb...I don't really have a issue with that especially recognizing this is on console it's kinda been a question I asked since joining the game why more skills weren't set up this way to help controller

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Originally Posted by AurisNix

They said they were going to make the bosses "harder" and not to fall asleep on them and I do really hope so cuz with the new job design in DT there is no other choice

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lmfao

NEVER trust SE when they say they'll make things harder (the only exception is Ultimate).

They kept saying healing requirements will go up for 3 xpacs!

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

So basically continuation for gnb...I don't really have a issue with that especially recognizing this is on console it's kinda been a question I asked since joining the game why more skills weren't set up this way to help controller

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Until you realize healers in 8.0 will be exactly as they are now, spamming their 111121111

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AurisNix

So with the media tour lifted the changes are almost meaningless and not only that but doesn't feel like a new thing how most jobs are, they all are the same job with different skins wich is really disappointing.

There is a specific thread about BLM but is crazy how BLM was the most affected this expansion and very sad cuz probably was the only surviving job that had some flexibility on its rotation and required some thinking in certain situations but now like all the remaining jobs is just one unique rotation that is honestly very boring, and this is clearly aimed to make it easy on ppl to learn or play the game but is that honestly what ppl need? To numb it down so bad? Why not put an actual decent tutorial? I dont think ppl need a super easy game, they need to know what is a stack marker what is a tank buster, how different this attacks looks, how a pair stack looks, and yes the game does teach you that through the MSQ but under that logic the MSQ is just a big ass tutorial that teach you one or two mechs each expansion that's not good at all.

The content in EW was super easy to begin with, now doing the jobs this easy as well doesn't seem very good.

Imagine being a new player and going to aglaia and miss 60% of the fight cuz:

1. The players destroy the bosses cuz how easy it is or almost non existing mechs
2. The 2 minute burst makes the fights and boss burn so fast that you skip bunch of mechs
3. You dont even need to play good to skip mechs

If I was a new player and later find out that Nald Thal had one amazing cutscene that I never saw cuz the boss died in a snap I wouldn't consider that a good gaming experience.

They said they were going to make the bosses "harder" and not to fall asleep on them and I do really hope so cuz with the new job design in DT there is no other choice

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"but is crazy how BLM was the most affected"
blm isnt even changed that much, if you play it the way 95% of people dop its barely changed, at most its manafont being a near full mp charge to stay in fire longer 4 nuke,

non standard wasnt the standard way to play

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Until you realize healers in 8.0 will be exactly as they are now, spamming their 111121111

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The game would be better if every job had 2-3 damage buttons and the rest of the skills actually did something interesting.

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Originally Posted by Immut

The game would be better if every job had 2-3 damage buttons and the rest of the skills actually did something interesting.

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So many MMOs have one third of the button and are yet more complex. Square Enix really managed to make jobs have button bloat and at the same time utterly banal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

People thinking there will be major changes in 8.0 is just massive copium. You can more or less predict the way it'll be due to how VPR and PCT work in terms of skills, aka how one skill replaces another and you just press the glowy button. That's 8.0.

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One button combo consolidation coming in 8.0..?
:p

They may have said no major* job changes until 8.0, but they said to expect encounter design changes this expansion. Now it's coming out that nothing has changed. Simple jobs and boring dungeons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

"but is crazy how BLM was the most affected"
blm isnt even changed that much, if you play it the way 95% of people dop its barely changed, at most its manafont being a near full mp charge to stay in fire longer 4 nuke,

non standard wasnt the standard way to play

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Correct, non-standard is optional and not that many people use it. Standard players wouldn't feel that much difference.

Emphasis on optional. If it's optional difficulty for people who want that sort of gameplay and it does not effect the average player whatsoever, what's the point of this change other than a massive fuck you to people who actually did like it?

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Originally Posted by Rozeee

Correct, non-standard is optional and not that many people use it. Standard players wouldn't feel that much difference.

Emphasis on optional. If it's optional difficulty for people who want that sort of gameplay and it does not effect the average player whatsoever, what's the point of this change other than a massive fuck you to people who actually did like it?

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Standard players are going to feel the increased rigidity and the higher punishment

No sharpcast to generate weave windows, a more brutal fire phase as the punishment for dropping out of fire is now the loss of flare star, your DOT is no longer fluid you basically just press it swapping into umbral ice the loss of movement from ice paradox which could be slotted near anywhere in the ice phase for the ultra rigid fire paradox

This is ironically going to make standard harder

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Standard players are going to feel the increased rigidity and the higher punishment

No sharpcast to generate weave windows, a more brutal fire phase as the punishment for dropping out of fire is now the loss of flare star, your DOT is no longer fluid you basically just press it swapping into umbral ice the loss of movement from ice paradox which could be slotted near anywhere in the ice phase for the ultra rigid fire paradox

This is ironically going to make standard harder

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Flare star design sucks yes, I hope this changes so that the gauge carries over even in ice. Also hope paradox UI returns.

However, I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt in terms of movement. The change will always grant free thunder and F3 proc. From the perspective of the average player, they'll probably think they have more movement since they probably didn't maintain sharpcast perfectly in the first place.

Horrible changes overall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rozeee

Correct, non-standard is optional and not that many people use it. Standard players wouldn't feel that much difference.

Emphasis on optional. If it's optional difficulty for people who want that sort of gameplay and it does not effect the average player whatsoever, what's the point of this change other than a massive fuck you to people who actually did like it?

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I'm certain someone on the balance team has made it their mission to remove any iota of optimization from the jobs.

Optimal drift MNK also looks to be neutered, although it's hard to say without seeing the launch potencies.