Goodbye, and good luck.

Some of you might notice me and some of you might not but I used to frequent these healer forums relatively extensively.

My game time has run out but I might have forum access until the end of the day so I wanted to make this thread to say Goodbye and Good luck to my fellow healers.

I've basically run out of reasons to log in and haven't for almost 2 months now. Multiple housing notifications that I just logged in to open my house door.

But mostly I'm tired of the job design that CBU3 has put on healers. I'm tired of playing a role that CBU3 clearly has no overall vision for and doesn't have the ability to properly balance them, much less make them "fun" or "engaging" during their downtime.

So, if you play into Dawntrail, I hope it's everything you want it to be and may your loot rolls be good. If you stick around, I hope you are having fun.

10 years was a good run but it's over. It's time for this jaded, grizzled veteran to turn around and walk away.

Truly the end of an era

The fact so many great healers are leaving the game says a lot. I really hope they change course soon.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

The fact so many great healers are leaving the game says a lot. I really hope they change course soon.

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Well, that's what the dev team wanted, isn't it? They wanted to absolutely gut the healer role down to its basic parts so DPS and tank players can "give healers a try".

Well, let's hope that those players "giving healers a try" can keep up with all the veterans bleeding out of the role, eh? :)

Hello, I sorry see you go and wish best to you.

I quit too, skipped 99% of EW cause I was so mad over the healer changes, can go read it on my profile.

Returned though, I had this nagging feeling in the back of my head to come crawling back, eventually the dam burst and I couldn't keep away any longer.

Will you stay away for good? Maybe, maybe not, just be warned that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, I for one pissed away close to 1.5k hours into terrible dinosaur survival games that stagnated to death. They make this game look good.

gl hf

Hate to see you go my guy, and I truly wish that healers was good again back in StB, but they truly detest healers to another level. We're literally playing Final Babysit-y Snore-Teen.

But I'll resub whenever the expansion come out in which I'll do the story, do some side stuff, and call it a day. Because ENCOUNTERS themselves won't be FUN unless the JOB CLASS themselves are FUN. But hey, that's subjective against every individual, but personally it has NOT BEEN FUN for me.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Well, that's what the dev team wanted, isn't it? They wanted to absolutely gut the healer role down to its basic parts so DPS and tank players can "give healers a try".

Well, let's hope that those players "giving healers a try" can keep up with all the veterans bleeding out of the role, eh? :)

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The sad part about is that i'm a TANK MAIN, and I despite those healer changes. Ever since they change my favorite healer AST with it's cards going into ShB, and SCH with selene basically getting deleted from exist to a glorified glamour. Along with the dots, and bane. (Ngl, I wished they keep that aetherflow trait. that was 45 secs, and decrease every 5 secs on using certain atherflow abilities was rad and restore energy drain back to it's former glory, but we'll never get THAT back now will we?)

I’ve been fearing that I might quit the role or the game too and that upsets me. I just feel like the past ten years we were more often ignored, gutted and simplified than ever heard, respected, or appreciated.

But also yes, you and your signature are very recognizable and I’ll be sad to watch yet another healer go.

I'm probably not too far behind you. Coming up on 11 years this October.

Still love this game. I know I do, because I cared enough to actually start posting on the forums semi-recently despite kinda hating every change healers have faced since losing Virus and Cleric Stance going into StB. Was always able to see the 'why' of the changes, and I'm still convinced most players just don't really give a shit about the battle content, but I think that's the thing, ultimately.

Like, I was drawn to the game and the healers because how it and they played, and over the years we've seen so many of the unique things FFXIV had to offer get filed down or just taken away, and I'm not even sure why because I don't think those things were preventing players from experiencing the story or whatever part of the game they were enjoying. I was enjoying those things.

I'm probably not done yet, just unsubbed for now. I still have friends that will probably mostly show up to play for the next savage raid tier, despite how exploitative it's started to feel that you still need 2 months of subscription and reclears to make sure your team is able to participate in the one ultimate that healers are engaging not even necessary.

Y'know, maybe I'll actually play a good healer for the next raid tier. Like PLD or WAR. Still not really interesting jobs, but I bet 3T1H4D would be a lot more fun to play, and if the developers aren't trying to make the gameplay any less stale then maybe we can.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Well, that's what the dev team wanted, isn't it? They wanted to absolutely gut the healer role down to its basic parts so DPS and tank players can "give healers a try".

Well, let's hope that those players "giving healers a try" can keep up with all the veterans bleeding out of the role, eh? :)

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This is exactly what SE wants. New players are important, and filling the roles needed are important for fluid gameplay. They know veterans will stay because they have been here for 6+ years already. They don't need to advertise to the old players; they already sold the game to them. First time experiences in FFXIV can be quite amazing, and I think that is the priority to the company's eyes. Not some old jaded healers complaining on the forums because they got too good at the game. <- I jest as I say this, but it makes perfect sense as to how they see things. They are not worried about us, because baby healers and good healers are two different worlds, and SE just does not know how to balance that without toxic behavior brewing from it. -shrugs- :(

Healers are just prog jobs at this point with how awful they feel to play outside of high-end content on patch. I would frequently take AST into my roulettes or literally any content in the game (50+ at least), because optimising the cards and rotation was engaging enough and felt fun to do every time without fail. Sadly, AST will no longer have this type of gameplay choice and will instead be streamlined closer to WHM, so I can be forced to mash one button with no mental thought put anywhere else - because that was never complained about right for years on end?

But to that, I say no. I implore other healer mains to just play the job in prog, and don't bother with it in all other areas of the game. Let the DF queues and reclear PF's stagger with a continued healer shortage, since the developers will not listen to us until they're forced to. Maybe when tanks and DPS aren't able to play the game, they'll think about improving the role properly.

I still like AST, but that's about it. They have taken all the challenge out of the game. I'm just returning after spending most of my time for the last 18 month, in WoW. This is the first time in years I've been excited about their expansion and not even remotely confident ours here will be interesting. The devs seem to be phoning it in, and a lot of the older players are leaving now.

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Originally Posted by Gember

This is exactly what SE wants. New players are important, and filling the roles needed are important for fluid gameplay. They know veterans will stay because they have been here for 6+ years already. They don't need to advertise to the old players; they already sold the game to them. First time experiences in FFXIV can be quite amazing, and I think that is the priority to the company's eyes. Not some old jaded healers complaining on the forums because they got too good at the game. <- I jest as I say this, but it makes perfect sense as to how they see things. They are not worried about us, because baby healers and good healers are two different worlds, and SE just does not know how to balance that without toxic behavior brewing from it. -shrugs- :(

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The real question to be asked though is do baby healers actually enjoy the healers either

I get it; the support roles have a “scary stigma” attached to them because you are a fail point in your party and overcoming this fear and doing a dungeon right is a good feeling the first few times you do it

But is that enough to hold any of these people to the role for it to be sustainable. I’m sure a not insignificant amount of new players that feel that way go “well I’m happy I got over my fear but I think I’ll stay on DPS and just play healer occasionally”. Sure some would also become healer mains but would they stay for long either

Going into a double DPS expansion with a job that’s generating the most excitement out of any job since SAM (in pictomancer) are these transient “I’ll play healer just to give it a go” people plus the jaded healer mains that refuse to give up the role enough to actually hold the role together.

You all know me, I’m one of the top 5 most jaded healer mains on the forums. Even I am using a friend who is on healer to run the day 1 roulettes on PIC because I genuinely am that over dealing with this trash fire of a role

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The real question to be asked though is do baby healers actually enjoy the healers either

I get it; the support roles have a “scary stigma” attached to them because you are a fail point in your party and overcoming this fear and doing a dungeon right is a good feeling the first few times you do it

But is that enough to hold any of these people to the role for it to be sustainable. I’m sure a not insignificant amount of new players that feel that way go “well I’m happy I got over my fear but I think I’ll stay on DPS and just play healer occasionally”. Sure some would also become healer mains but would they stay for long either

Going into a double DPS expansion with a job that’s generating the most excitement out of any job since SAM (in pictomancer) are these transient “I’ll play healer just to give it a go” people plus the jaded healer mains that refuse to give up the role enough to actually hold the role together.

You all know me, I’m one of the top 5 most jaded healer mains on the forums. Even I am using a friend who is on healer to run the day 1 roulettes on PIC because I genuinely am that over dealing with this trash fire of a role

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It's definitely the worst role for sustainability. I remember my journey from when I first started to right now. Initially, I adored WHM and healing in general and found dungeon runs to be difficult (ShB era). I stayed away from AST because the card mechanic was too difficult for me to comprehend, and I didn't like the gameplay loop of SCH (I still dont).

Then I got better at the game, and (excuse the ego) very good at healing when I began delving into extremes and savage on patch. It got to the point that I got bored quickly and started to dislike healing on WHM. I shifted to AST and began to play it optimally and ever since, even during casual content, I have fun and enjoy healing. I've only stuck to AST when healing and WHM is so painfully boring I can't stand to play it. I ended up going from a hardcore WHM enjoyer to an AST lover, which is an interest retrospective.

I definitely think this contributes to why I see the healer role genuinely only played by newer or bad players, whether in my roulettes or PF's. It's honestly a miserable role if you're good at it, with only AST optimization being an option which isn't for everyones liking.

I wonder how bad the queues in DT will be.. 2 new DPS jobs, healer is still awful but now current AST mains will probably drop the role entirely.

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

I definitely think this contributes to why I see the healer role genuinely only played by newer or bad players, whether in my roulettes or PF's. It's honestly a miserable role if you're good at it, with only AST optimization being an option which isn't for everyones liking.

I wonder how bad the queues in DT will be.. 2 new DPS jobs, healer is still awful but now current AST mains will probably drop the role entirely.

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A lot of people have definitely left the role already, we've even had some new healers come to the forums and ask if healing ever gets better or if it stays boring.

But despite the lower healer numbers and the vast amount of veteran healers quitting, the players who enjoy the massive simplifications believe themselves the majority and they're ecstatic that they've claimed AST into their ranks. Guess we'll just have to see how the healer population fares in DT then.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

A lot of people have definitely left the role already, we've even had some new healers come to the forums and ask if healing ever gets better or if it stays boring.

But despite the lower healer numbers and the vast amount of veteran healers quitting, the players who enjoy the massive simplifications believe themselves the majority and they're ecstatic that they've claimed AST into their ranks. Guess we'll just have to see how the healer population fares in DT then.

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It would be nice if we couldn’t predict in advance the excuse will become “it’s a double DPS expansion, of course the healer population will be lower”

I recommend you try healing in WoW. It's a blast and respects the player's intelligence.

See you in 8.0 when they redesign all the jobs and make them unique and fun again. Have a great break sugar bear.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It would be nice if we couldn’t predict in advance the excuse will become “it’s a double DPS expansion, of course the healer population will be lower”

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Which would be the saddest excuse I've ever heard. If the role actually appealed to people enough to main it they wouldn't swap to the shiny new DPS at the drop of a hat.

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

I wonder how bad the queues in DT will be.. 2 new DPS jobs, healer is still awful but now current AST mains will probably drop the role entirely.

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That's the reason they've been working on trusts so hard. See a 30+ minute queue? Might as well just load up a Trust for your dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Gember

This is exactly what SE wants. New players are important, and filling the roles needed are important for fluid gameplay. They know veterans will stay because they have been here for 6+ years already. They don't need to advertise to the old players; they already sold the game to them. First time experiences in FFXIV can be quite amazing, and I think that is the priority to the company's eyes. Not some old jaded healers complaining on the forums because they got too good at the game. <- I jest as I say this, but it makes perfect sense as to how they see things. They are not worried about us, because baby healers and good healers are two different worlds, and SE just does not know how to balance that without toxic behavior brewing from it. -shrugs- :(

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Actually, I don't think it's the baby healers that are the problem; I've only been here since ShB and I perform better than so many mentors who just idle cure 1 spam or don't use their tank aoe rotation. Of course, I've also seen a good amount of good mentors. Still pissed they removed Sleeve Draw. I'm falling tf asleep playing SCH and SGE because they're the same job with a different coat of paint, and the only difference is that SGE is moderately more enjoyable due to the lack of clunk and better pub carrying. I get way more enjoyment playing tank and even then, PLDs rotation became a snorefest ever since it got emergency reworked to fit into the boring as sin 2 minute meta.

God Bless and Good Luck to Deceptus and other veteran healers who are quitting the game after so long. Hopefully, the remaining healer mains can keep fighting the good fight.

I already quit the game for over a year and just started playing again two months ago. Playing whatever sticks to me right now, but hoping to God the healer role improves from DT and onward. Who knows, maybe some veterans will return in the future.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The real question to be asked though is do baby healers actually enjoy the healers either

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I started in 5.3 and I genuinely don't know who FF14 healing design is for. Maybe four months after starting I was already searching thru the OF and the subreddit archives for threads to put words to why I was so bored and unhappy with FF14 healing.

It's not for triage healers because there's not enough damage. It's not for buffmonkeys because all the buffs are zero-creativity damage increases. It's not for control freaks because there's no crowd control and barely any resource management. It's not for DPS button-heads because you press 1-1-1-1 90% of the time.

Genuinely, what kind of new player are they trying to keep? IMVU refugees?

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

See you in 8.0 when they redesign all the jobs and make them unique and fun again. Have a great break sugar bear.

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I love how people keep moving the goalpost.
''Shadowbringer is just there to create a clean slate, Endwalker will fix things''
''Endwalker just lays the foundation for job design in Dawntrail''
''They said they'll fix class design in 8.0''

How many more years are people going to waste waiting before they realise there's only 2 jobs the devs care about?

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Originally Posted by vetch

I started in 5.3 and I genuinely don't know who FF14 healing design is for. Maybe four months after starting I was already searching thru the OF and the subreddit archives for threads to put words to why I was so bored and unhappy with FF14 healing.

It's not for triage healers because there's not enough damage. It's not for buffmonkeys because all the buffs are zero-creativity damage increases. It's not for control freaks because there's no crowd control and barely any resource management. It's not for DPS button-heads because you press 1-1-1-1 90% of the time.

Genuinely, what kind of new player are they trying to keep? IMVU refugees?

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I think there was a thread at one point saying the Japanese like the current healer design. Would make sense how dead set they are in keeping it.

bye bye :(

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

Actually, I don't think it's the baby healers that are the problem.

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It's not a problem exclusive to any singular portion of the playerbase. I've seen a few healer players from the ARR times who absolutely love the gutted version of healers, just like I've seen many of my friends who joined in ShB get absolutely bored out of their mind from healers. The real problem is that the dev team will not commit to one thing or another.

Want more damage buttons? tHiNk Of tHe NeW pLaYeRs
Want higher healing requirements? tHiNk Of tHe NeW pLaYeRs

It's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Goodbye, and good luck.

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It breaks my heart to see more long-time veterans leave. I feel like there's a small, yet solid community here that have had this shared goal of seeing the healer role evolve and grow toward a healthier medium, even if we may challenge one another's specific ideas at times. I really hate how this game's obsession with simplicity has continued to push people away like this because there is a part of me that still deeply loves this game and wants to see it succeed. And sadly, I'm not far behind you either. I did make the decision to try out the beginning of DT and see just how different this new approach to combat design will be, but I don't know how successful it will be. At the moment, I kind of see myself checking out the MSQ and maybe the first couple extremes or something, then taking a break till the new field operation and testing that out, and then going back offline till 8.0. Maybe something will stick and I'll stay around.

I just hate that we "aren't allowed" to try and make any meaningful changes till the launch of an expansion. I don't get why in 2.5 years, we're only allowed the most tepid changes unless a job's state is considered an "emergency" (even when it isn't *cough* paladin) and gets a soft rework maybe.

Please, CBU3... Your unrelenting streamlining and simplification of job design is destroying the love some players have for this game. You may not be losing that many people which may not matter much to the overall player population, especially when the game offers other carrots on a stick for new rabbits to investigate, like the Xbox cross platforming, but this oversimplification of the game isn't healthy. What are you actually gaining from it? Because it seems to me like all its doing is killing the fun for a select handful while providing nothing to the rest of the playerbase that was otherwise already happy with the game's job design and combat system anyway.

Goodbye, Deceptus. I sincerely hope that we see you again in the future, because that will hopefully mean that things will have finally turned around and we can all enjoy the game together again.

Alternative : play pvp, best gameplay there currently is by far, for everyone and especially for healers. It shows that they can create some amazing gameplay, when unhindered by yoship or something like that. The 6.1 rework has been the most fun since the first iterations of scholar back in the day.
Pve combat might as well not exist.

I ceased being a healer main ever since Shadowbringers deleted my job, barely touch AST besides leveling.

I'm less a healer main and now a wildcard that just chooses a particular job in a given type (DRK, RDM, SGE mostly, and the latter is least preferred for queues).

I’m also transitioning in DT towards more being a “wildcard main” focusing on the shield healers, PLD and PIC because I just don’t have it in me to exclusively main a healer anymore given nothing ever changes anymore

I've been sucked into a static with friends and have no choice but to heal, so I'll be doing that in DT... which I guess will be tons of fun for prog but I'm already dreading the weekly reclears I'll have to do. God it may actually kill me now that I don't have AST to fall back on after clearing a fight... the fact that I'm only excited to play healer in week 1 content and nowhere else is truly representative of its issues.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m also transitioning in DT towards more being a “wildcard main” focusing on the shield healers, PLD and PIC because I just don’t have it in me to exclusively main a healer anymore given nothing ever changes anymore

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The grass isn't greener in the tank role.
Hope you enjoy your stay, and try to ignore the unnecessary Warrior buffs every patch.
Those happen a lot.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

The grass isn't greener in the tank role.
Hope you enjoy your stay, and try to ignore the unnecessary Warrior buffs every patch.
Those happen a lot.

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And the gameplay akin to a level 50 melee DPS job.

Level 50 is a bit much,unless we're talking about current Warrior. But level 70 dps yeah pretty much.
At level 70 Dark knight and Gnb have more damage buttons than level 70 Reaper.
They're dead set on further simplifying tanks in Dawntrail, so maybe you're right though.

That’s why I plan to become a wildcard main, I don’t think PLD alone has enough to justify an entire expansion as my main either which is why I won’t only be a PLD main either

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s why I plan to become a wildcard main, I don’t think PLD alone has enough to justify an entire expansion as my main either which is why I won’t only be a PLD main either

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Support design in this game in general is just stupid.
I'm just going to play melee in Dawntrail. I started out as a Scholar main, but got bored of spamming broil.
Endwalker came out, and it would *tooootally* be different with the introduction of Sage! Or so people said.
Sage just ended up being scholar with more personal damage and instant casts at the cost of some utility. The devs didn't listen so i moved over to tank.
I found out the hard way, that the grass isn't greener here and that tanks have their own design issues in the form of an overfed, spoiled group of mains that always get their way.
A new tank will just be a worse Warrior clone with some extra steps.
And if it does something cool or unique, a certain group of players will ensure every tank can do it, making it no longer cool or unique. I genuinely do not see the need for new supports anymore.

I actually just want a complete overhaul of the supports at this point, and ideally they move Warrior to melee dps to avoid future homogenisation.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Support design in this game in general is just stupid[...]

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This is what I feel ultimately. Healer/Support jobs is my bread and butter choice in every single game I played & I can never stray too far from that. I may play DPS in off times but nothing screams like home like support jobs to me.

When I play support job in other games, the sentiment was "I know people gonna need/desire me, and I will do my best to fill that gaping hole in their party!" and accompanied by other's perspective to my job of "I can finish this mission just fine on my own. But if I recruit [X support] to my cause, my life will be much easier and I can even farm this more efficiently!"

Now shove me mind to FFXIV, what I get instead is "Lol I'm just here to make sure DF queue pops..." whereas other's take for support jobs be like "But I don't want to get c*cked or depend on support jobs, please make me immortal solo god!"

Support job just feels like a garbage over here. I'm only staying in the game for certain social circle that should not be named that I hope they won't be stupid enough to bork anytime in near future.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Level 50 is a bit much,unless we're talking about current Warrior. But level 70 dps yeah pretty much.
At level 70 Dark knight and Gnb have more damage buttons than level 70 Reaper.
They're dead set on further simplifying tanks in Dawntrail, so maybe you're right though.

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I may have exaggerated a bit and I still think of what low level jobs were, not the gameplay husk they are now after getting all their abilities pruned and stapled back on at max level for several expansions.
But tank gameplay is incredibly barebones when you also take into account how laughable most tank specific mechanics in boss fight are, most of them just being tank busters and most of those being little more than a check on whether or not you still have a pulse.