SMN Job 7.0 Feedback

Ok guys, it was really funny to lobotomize SMN for an entire expanion. We laughed, we cried, we despaired.

The joke has run its course. We'd like the old Stormblood SMN back now.

Thank you : d

They mentioned bringing back job identity in 8.0. To what extent, we don't know.

I'm a ShB SMN main, as much as I'd love to see what happens in 8.0, my best advice to anyone is to just enjoy 7.0 jobs for what they will be.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

Ok guys, it was really funny to lobotomize SMN for an entire expanion. We laughed, we cried, we despaired.

The joke has run its course. We'd like the old Stormblood SMN back now.

Thank you : d

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I think the theme of current summoner is super cool, but they need more cast-times and some additional systems to make them engaging. I struggle to see how Summoner players stay conscious at all while playing.

They mentioned that they had thought of stripping away our Rez, and I *REALLY* hope they don't. As the only DPS that can help the group with Rezzing before StB mid/late content, it would definitely be more challenging, and take away something I truly enjoy about this class. I LIKE being helpful to the healers by being able to get people up if we're having a rough run, or get the healer up if there was an oopsie, and if they remove or rework our Rez, that may no longer be possible. I know it's an odd piece of kit, but we're an odd class. We share XP with a healer, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to Rez. I'd also love for Physick to be stronger, because at higher levels, it's not even worth having on your bar.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Miemi

They mentioned bringing back job identity in 8.0. To what extent, we don't know.

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Having terrible job mechanics for 4 years is wild, 6 when you include healers lol.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Having terrible job mechanics for 4 years is wild, 6 when you include healers lol.

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Actually it'll be 8 in total for healers if nothing changes and the next expansion releases in 3 years...

Sorry, but IMO Solar Bahamut is lame as hell. I'm very disappointed we're not getting Shiva and Ramuh.

I could not be more disappointed. I'm the biggest bahamut fanboy around and I would have preferred literally anything else. On top of being sick of him, he also looks silly in this new form. We had so many other cool primals to pick from, why this new made up bahamut instead?

And even worse, they left the job with very little changes, when it was already boring. And they want us to wait two more years for 8.0 to have a chance at a fun job? I'm getting sick of this game.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

We'd like the old Stormblood SMN back now.

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It boggles my mind people actually want this broken, infuriating mess of a job back. Did everyone forget pet lag + mandatory pet skill before you can demi-summon?
They need to just delete the entire job and try again, demi-summoning is a fundamentally broken mechanic that has crippled job design for four expansions in a row. Just cut the crap out and make a class that will actually work.

in the dictionary the term "smn", we can find it as a synonym for meme

I love current SMN and it's a very popular job. I never understand where the kind of absolutist language and the vitriol in the feedback from people in a thread like this come from. There's tons of players who are super happy with it (see basically any casual content these days, where the instances are packed to the gills with SMN and DNC), and the devs are trying to provide diversity of experiences for players. Its current popularity suggests their best play is to just leave it be, and that looks like the tack the devs have taken. I, for one, applaud their restraint in not messing with a success.

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Originally Posted by DNation

I love current SMN and it's a very popular job. I never understand where the kind of absolutist language and the vitriol in the feedback from people in a thread like this come from. There's tons of players who are super happy with it (see basically any casual content these days, where the instances are packed to the gills with SMN and DNC), and the devs are trying to provide diversity of experiences for players. Its current popularity suggests their best play is to just leave it be, and that looks like the tack the devs have taken. I, for one, applaud their restraint in not messing with a success.

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GG, make a video game populated only by casuals survive. Who knows of those who play now have dropped out.

Anyways, after the salt, You're basically right, but they very forcefully took away this class from paying players and gave it to others.

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Originally Posted by CecMiller

The joke has run its course. We'd like the old Stormblood SMN back now.

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I don't want old Stormblood SMN back.

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

GG, make a video game populated only by casuals survive. Who knows of those who play now have dropped out.

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The game is, by what limited information we can tell, more popular than ever. Of course this has been bolstered over the years by things like WoW seriously wounding itself, but most of a game's audience - any game, at all - is and always will be "casual" players.

They chose to rework an unpopular job and made it one of the most popular. I'm not without sympathy for the people who liked old SMN (although I have no shortage of confusion), but it'd be a very hard-pressed task to find how making a job that is a hit with the lion's share of the player base is actually a negative. I've never been happy myself with 100% of what the devs have done, but on the whole, we've consistently moved in a positive direction.

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Originally Posted by DNation

The game is, by what limited information we can tell, more popular than ever. Of course this has been bolstered over the years by things like WoW seriously wounding itself, but most of a game's audience - any game, at all - is and always will be "casual" players.

They chose to rework an unpopular job and made it one of the most popular. I'm not without sympathy for the people who liked old SMN (although I have no shortage of confusion), but it'd be a very hard-pressed task to find how making a job that is a hit with the lion's share of the player base is actually a negative. I've never been happy myself with 100% of what the devs have done, but on the whole, we've consistently moved in a positive direction.

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The game isn't popular because of its gameplay, and if anything it usually is a turn-off in its current state, or something that people don't consider when starting the game.

Summoner is as popular as it is right now because its visual design is fantastic, and the perfect image of a classic FF summoner. But the gameplay is barren. It's also a lazy job that people pick when they want to turn their brain off, kinda like healers.

In short gameplay =/////= popularity. And summoner is a textbook example.

I never thought I could despise something more than EW SMN. DT SMN surpassed that.

Have your Insomnia curing job. I'm done with it.

I agree.

Summoner has never been more fun to play than it has been the last couple years.

The ol' hybrid DoT/Pet management setup was not particularly fun. It was over cumbersome and at certain times in the game were very unwieldy.

See? it's okay to have strong opinions, but my god. Strong, but constructive opinions are a scarcity around here. It's just vitriol and hate and bashing on people who do enjoy the changes to Summoner as though they are some Cro-Magnon who can't function on a level necessary to keep track of timers.

You now remember all the people coping that the EW smn rework was a 'good foundation' for future development of the job hahahahahahahahahaha

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Having terrible job mechanics for 4 years is wild, 6 when you include healers lol.

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I'm not sure what this has to do with my quote. I'm expecting (naturally) devs to create something new, not revert back.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

You now remember all the people coping that the EW smn rework was a 'good foundation' for future development of the job hahahahahahahahahaha

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Where are we at the gaslighting pipeline currently?

At first the changes aren't going to be that huge. Then the changes are going to be just as good as the old job. The new job is just a foundation, you guys! Actually the old job sucked! That's so unfair to people who love new SMN, you can't just take it away now. Actually new SMN is amazing and everyone loves it, s-shut up!

Some people just say anything to deflect criticism, whatever is most convenient at the time. You can't convince me they aren't just white knighting literally anything FF14 devs do.

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Originally Posted by DNation

I love current SMN and it's a very popular job. I never understand where the kind of absolutist language and the vitriol in the feedback from people in a thread like this come from. There's tons of players who are super happy with it (see basically any casual content these days, where the instances are packed to the gills with SMN and DNC), and the devs are trying to provide diversity of experiences for players. Its current popularity suggests their best play is to just leave it be, and that looks like the tack the devs have taken. I, for one, applaud their restraint in not messing with a success.

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They could also make a job where you press one button and it autokills the boss. Everybody would play it, and I'm sure by that metric it would be the greatest success of all times.

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Originally Posted by Mel0hDee

They mentioned that they had thought of stripping away our Rez, and I *REALLY* hope they don't. As the only DPS that can help the group with Rezzing before StB mid/late content, it would definitely be more challenging, and take away something I truly enjoy about this class. I LIKE being helpful to the healers by being able to get people up if we're having a rough run, or get the healer up if there was an oopsie, and if they remove or rework our Rez, that may no longer be possible. I know it's an odd piece of kit, but we're an odd class. We share XP with a healer, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to Rez. I'd also love for Physick to be stronger, because at higher levels, it's not even worth having on your bar.

Just my 2 cents.

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100% agree with you

the issue is not solar bahamut lol the issue is it being a demi means it changes nothing you still press the same button and the class functions the same way its just cosmetic. Bohoo solar akh morn and solar death flare and solar astral impulse so unique!

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Originally Posted by DNation

I love current SMN and it's a very popular job. I never understand where the kind of absolutist language and the vitriol in the feedback from people in a thread like this come from. There's tons of players who are super happy with it (see basically any casual content these days, where the instances are packed to the gills with SMN and DNC), and the devs are trying to provide diversity of experiences for players. Its current popularity suggests their best play is to just leave it be, and that looks like the tack the devs have taken. I, for one, applaud their restraint in not messing with a success.

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Let's ignore how SMN has been a problem in the caster (...we could argue the entire ranged dps section and not just caster) role balance, and the entire state of jobs, and the influence its existence had/has, since the game and its "success" is balanced around casuals spamming roulettes anyway. Heck, they're happy! Yoshida, make all jobs reskins of SMN, big success I tell you!

Nah man I knew where your comment was going after "I love current SMN and it's a very popular job."

People have been arguing about this for so many years and still going.

Summoner is the problem.

I’m going to agree with those who like summoner as it is - I’ve mained it for a long time and still love it. Does it get boring at times? Sure, especially in casual content. But I think I would equally get bored of any other job I played for many years straight. I guess I’m just not someone who needs everything to be really hard to have fun.

As for DT changes, I’m holding my judgement on it until I see the full list of changes. There are many small things they could have done that could make for interesting changes to how it’s played that wouldn’t be shown in the job action trailer. I was hoping for more new summons, but we can’t pretend those would have changed the way the job plays much anyway (if they put 3 new summons after Phoenix for example).

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Originally Posted by Valence

They could also make a job where you press one button and it autokills the boss. Everybody would play it, and I'm sure by that metric it would be the greatest success of all times.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=10&v...ature=youtu.be

I thought the main reason for "simplifying" SMN for Endwalker was to build upon it in a new creative way. How is adding a reskin of an already existing summon, "creative"? I mean if you are going to give us a new "grand" summon, why not Alexander? After the events of Shadowbringers, it fits into the lore now. You couldn't even give us the rest of the classical summons either, lame.

And the Resurrection debate is back, why? Resurrection isn't an issue, Physick is. Why is it even still a thing on SMN if it does nothing? The spell isn't even addressed. But by all means debate over a spell that no one has any problem with. It's just sad.

And on a tangent, when will SCH get It's oGCD shield, grrr!

At least Pictomancer looked cool.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

You now remember all the people coping that the EW smn rework was a 'good foundation' for future development of the job hahahahahahahahahaha

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It was and it still is, the fact that they didn't do much of anything to build on that foundation doesn't make it untrue.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

It was and it still is, the fact that they didn't do much of anything to build on that foundation doesn't make it untrue.

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This. All EW Summoner needed was a little bit of choice/modularity introduced to it with the next ten levels. I hold that if you could prepare a diamond gem that could interrupt the lego phase at any point by turning into Shiva, the job would be more or less complete. With maybe room for another big blasty demi summon if we wanted it (I would nominate Warring Triad, given that I think Alexander and Eden would be much better purposed toward cohering Scholar's identity).

What tf even is a Solar Bahamut. Why does it have sword-wings. Why do we have to look at it twice as often as Bahamut/Phoenix? This is not Summoner material at all. This is trash.

Yall rejoiced in SMN braindead state now lavish in it like a good submissive shill

sooo, Smn got a woke Bahamut? xD... T_T
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no dot, no Shiva or Ramuh, nothing "added" to rota?.
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wait, we get a new action after Searing Light? .. WHAT?? a dot? Shiva? Ramuh? different gap closer? another buff? a "dance" partner? WHAT??

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

nothing "added" to rota?.

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No it's a whole other part of the rotation.

Assuming I understood what they were saying during the live translation, (Aimi really seemed off her game that day, not sure if they were all just exhausted or what, but she was constantly making mistranslation and pronunciation mistakes), it looks like the rotation is going to start with Phoenix > Solar Bahamut > Bahamut > Solar Bahamut > back to Phoenix.

Some people seem to think they only started Phoenix ready so they could show off Solar Bahamut right away and then it goes back to Bahamut leading to Bahamut > Phoenix > Solar Bahamut, but that wasn't what was really conveyed during the live letter so.. guess we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

No it's a whole other part of the rotation.

Assuming I understood what they were saying during the live translation, (Aimi really seemed off her game that day, not sure if they were all just exhausted or what, but she was constantly making mistranslation and pronunciation mistakes), it looks like the rotation is going to start with Phoenix > Solar Bahamut > Bahamut > Solar Bahamut > back to Phoenix.

Some people seem to think they only started Phoenix ready so they could show off Solar Bahamut right away and then it goes back to Bahamut leading to Bahamut > Phoenix > Solar Bahamut, but that wasn't what was really conveyed during the live letter so.. guess we'll see.

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They explicitly said the rotation is Solar - Bahamut - Solar - Phoenix - Repeat. You can hear YoshiP himself say that exact sequence before Aimi translates the rest of it.

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Originally Posted by Flana

They explicitly said the rotation is Solar - Bahamut - Solar - Phoenix - Repeat. You can hear YoshiP himself say that exact sequence before Aimi translates the rest of it.

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Okay. Yeah. That's what it was. I know people were confused by Phoenix being first in the video, but it was probably just because they didn't want to show Solar Bahamut following normal Bahamut as it would lack quite the same impact.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

It was and it still is, the fact that they didn't do much of anything to build on that foundation doesn't make it untrue.

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- Foundation that thematically unlock 3 very poor primals from Bahamut supreme abnormal giga monster?
- Foundation that makes 4 out of 5 summons the exact same thing in game feel?
- Foundation that thematically make a carbuncle an amoeba?

Are we sure we are talking about the same foundation?

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

- Foundation that thematically unlock 3 very poor primals from Bahamut supreme abnormal giga monster?
- Foundation that makes 4 out of 5 summons the exact same thing in game feel?
- Foundation that thematically make a carbuncle an amoeba?

Are we sure we are talking about the same foundation?

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It was perfectly fine when they were still egis we command. They were still fine having subroles: Garuda for AoE, ifrit was melee and and Titan was utility. The most logical progression for egi trances was to summon the full version of them... Enkindle when used at max gauge becomes summon ifrit, if ifrit-egi is present, etc, then reverts back to the egi version to continue.

The problem started when they wanted all primals summoned and follow a rotation. When the casuals found pet management "hard" and wanted it to play like the other jobs, instead of thinking of improvements.

The DT smn looks like such a huge letdown. 90% of what they show was basic just EW SMN with two new abilities(The follow-up to SL and whatever the thing was at the end after solar Baha). Even Solar Baha is a letdown to me because he honestly is just a reskin Baha. Everything the smn did inside that window with solar baha is the same things you do now inside Baha(few GCDs, a solar death flare, and a solar Ark Morn). There is nothing new or unique about solar Baha other than the look of the spells and abilities. Really all SMN is getting in DT is an upgraded ED and Faster, a follow-up attack to thier buff, some new self, or a party thing(again they never talked about what the smn did at the end of solar baha. It just looks like some type of party/self heal, shield or buff to me), and a reskin baha. Just a huge letdown and Im no more excited to play it as I am now. I will most likely stay with rpr or try out Picto.

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Originally Posted by DNation

I love current SMN and it's a very popular job. I never understand where the kind of absolutist language and the vitriol in the feedback from people in a thread like this come from. There's tons of players who are super happy with it (see basically any casual content these days, where the instances are packed to the gills with SMN and DNC), and the devs are trying to provide diversity of experiences for players. Its current popularity suggests their best play is to just leave it be, and that looks like the tack the devs have taken. I, for one, applaud their restraint in not messing with a success.

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I agree but why fanfic bahamut instead of just anything else?. thats my main problem we have like 20 primals to choose (and if you want big boys, you have Alexander, Odin, Thordan/knights of the round, Eureka or the Ivalice Ultima (was stated as a living primal)) if you want to tie them to msq (not sure why because bahamut and phoenx do not appear in msq, yeah I know the lore states that everyone in eorzea has their aether but if you do not do the coils you do not even know Phoenix exists) even if you want them to be from msq we could go hard and just summon Z and/or mom. still we have the warrying triad, susanoo, lakshmi, Ravana, Bismark, Tsukuyomi, Shiva, Ramuh, leviathan. and probably one or two more that I forgot (do not make me say good king moogle mog please, summoning moguris is already a pictomancer thing)

They could have given us Alexander but we got edgy bahamut. Like the form looks like something my nephew would draw on bahamut and think it looks cool.

Like they took stranger of paradise bahamut and just copy pasted in typical “can I copy your homework”

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Originally Posted by Mortex

They could have given us Alexander but we got edgy bahamut. Like the form looks like something my nephew would draw on bahamut and think it looks cool.

Like they took stranger of paradise bahamut and just copy pasted in typical “can I copy your homework”

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thats why I keep saying that new bahamut is the fanfic the pictomancer did then made us summon it (And unless Im given a vERY good lore explanation about it in game its how I am gonna treat it, as a joke)

But the pictomancer is your new crush so you Give the fanfic the most important role in you rotation, the burst phase.