Suggestion - Make "Tank Stance" the default

I feel like it's a fairly safe assumption that when most players choose to be a tank, it's usually because they want to tank; that's certainly my experience. So I'd like to request that Tank Stance being "on" be the default for tank classes.

This would address 2 problems:

• In level-synced content (such as FATES and Duties) needing to activate Tank Stance after every sync even though you already had Tank Stance up before.
• Needing to remember to activate Tank Stance right after switching to a tank class.

Naturally, it should still be possible to remove and reactivate Tank Stance, but the default should just be "on", similar to Botanists' Stealth.

EDIT: as fulminating mentioned, it would probably be even better if the game just didn't change your tank stance without your explicit permission; that would address the needs of tanks regardless of their preferred stance. Though I think implementing both would be ideal: tank stance defaults to on, and then if the player turns it off, it doesn't go on again without their explicit input.

Thanks for considering my feedback!

I'd rather they convert grit etc to the same type of status as mighty guard - so it will remain on while entering instances and remain off while entering instances depending on what you had outside of it.

I think if they were able to have your status persist when going into an instance or getting level-synced in a FATE then that would solve most issues. Tanks could still zone in without it into something like a trial or raid and then indicate who will MT by turning on their stance. And OT won't have to remember to toggle theirs off so they can control their aggro. And a tank queueing for dungeons can have theirs on outside and have it stay so they don't forget to turn it on inside if they get level-synced.

I agree you should need to toggle it off if you are the off tank.
You could almost get rid of it all together if you make shirk cast time shorter.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

I agree you should need to toggle it off if you are the off tank.
You could almost get rid of it all together if you make shirk cast time shorter.

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They'd have to really boost Shirk. I just pulled off my MT in 12s last night even after I shirked her and she voked and I had to stance dance a bit. It can happen if you get lucky on crits.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I'd rather they convert grit etc to the same type of status as mighty guard - so it will remain on while entering instances and remain off while entering instances depending on what you had outside of it.

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I could live with that.

If I want my stance on, I'll toggle it on. If I want it off, I'll toggle it off. There's no need for the game to second guess me and change it without my input.

(I'll ignore syncing to a FATE that's so low level that you don't have your stance yet.)

Although, really, turning stance on when I sync into instance is no worse than a SGE picking someone for Kardia or a DNC picking a dance partner or a SCH plunking their fairy down somewhere. It's all just part of the "starting a new instance" ritual for me.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Although, really, turning stance on when I sync into instance is no worse than a SGE picking someone for Kardia or a DNC picking a dance partner or a SCH plunking their fairy down somewhere. It's all just part of the "starting a new instance" ritual for me.

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It would save some poor dps worry when the tank goes running off without it, lol. I've had to reaper tank more than a few times when that happened with sprout tanks. But yeah it really is mostly just the "Getting things ready in the instance" things.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Although, really, turning stance on when I sync into instance is no worse than a SGE picking someone for Kardia or a DNC picking a dance partner or a SCH plunking their fairy down somewhere. It's all just part of the "starting a new instance" ritual for me.

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Overall I don't really mind the "starting the instance" ritual part of it; rather, the thing that really brought this issue into sharp focus for me was that the other day I helped out a friend by doing a bunch of FATES in Heavensward with them as a tank. Every single FATE, I needed to once again turn on my tank stance because syncing removed it. Accidentally step out of the FATE boundaries? Need to re-sync and activate that stance again. It even happens when you do a chain FATE in the same exact spot: tank stance gets removed between the first fight and the second. And unlike instanced content, doing FATES has a more organic feel, traveling around an area to do small fights here and there, so you kind of just want your settings to stick around rather than have to reset them for every. single. fight.

So I agree with fulminating that part of this should be that the game just doesn't change your stance without your permission. The desire to default into tank stance when changing jobs would be a nice supplement to that, but the game not toggling your stance is probably the more valuable option (though hopefully, both!)

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Overall I don't really mind the "starting the instance" ritual part of it; rather, the thing that really brought this issue into sharp focus for me was that the other day I helped out a friend by doing a bunch of FATES in Heavensward with them as a tank. Every single FATE, I needed to once again turn on my tank stance because syncing removed it. Accidentally step out of the FATE boundaries? Need to re-sync and activate that stance again. It even happens when you do a chain FATE in the same exact spot: tank stance gets removed between the first fight and the second. And unlike instanced content, doing FATES has a more organic feel, traveling around an area to do small fights here and there, so you kind of just want your settings to stick around rather than have to reset them for every. single. fight.

So I agree with fulminating that part of this should be that the game just doesn't change your stance without your permission. The desire to default into tank stance when changing jobs would be a nice supplement to that, but the game not toggling your stance is probably the more valuable option (though hopefully, both!)

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what's so weird too is that this is tied to level sync specifically. if you do Lv90 fates in Ultima Thule it doesn't mess around with your statuses in anything because there is no level sync. It's so odd!

That makes me think it's another victim of spaghetti code, or perhaps just overly safe design- they want to make sure you can't carry over any higher-level effects while syncing, so they completely reset your effects when you do, including tank stance

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

That makes me think it's another victim of spaghetti code, or perhaps just overly safe design- they want to make sure you can't carry over any higher-level effects while syncing, so they completely reset your effects when you do, including tank stance

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Exactly. But it works for SMN and SCH pets, they don't despawn when you level sync.

So maybe the solution would be to move tank stance from level 10 down to level 1.

It's definitely a victim of spaghetti code, but that shouldn't be an excuse. There are lots of things that happen when you load in to a duty: cooldowns reset, gauges fill up, stats are synced, etc. I'm sure that the devs could add one more piece to that initialisation that would turn tank stance on automatically. It's good QoL since in most cases you want the tank to have their stance on.

I'd much rather have it not be deactivated when levelsyncing than to make it automatically on or, if I read that by someone else right, bake it passively into tanks and "buff shirk" instead. Trading one ritual for another (putting on vs taking off/shirk on CD) isn't what I'd want at least.

I primarily do 8man duties or higher and I generally prefer having clear visibility on who stepped up, opened tank stance and is ready to hold the boss. If it was default on, now the 2nd/3rd/etc. tank has to turn their stance off to avoid aggro shenanigans rather than one guy putting it on.

I disagree with this suggestion. I go into the dungeon with my tank stance off (when there are multiple tanks), due to the fact most other tanks prefer to main tank and honestly I really enjoy off tanking. I also don't like the provoke-off and ego-driven nature of multiple tanks with their stances on.

With this change, the stance staying on, many players would forget to turn it off, and there would definitely be aggro fights that the rest of the raid / party would have to deal with.

So, I prefer the stances to stay as they are.

I don't know why any tank wouldn't want this change.

Or maybe add a check before the dungeon starts prompting the tank that you are about to enter the dungeon without your tank stance on. Would you like to turn it on.. That way, it's easier for us to kick a tank for refusing to turn on their tank stance.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Or maybe add a check before the dungeon starts prompting the tank that you are about to enter the dungeon without your tank stance on. Would you like to turn it on.. That way, it's easier for us to kick a tank for refusing to turn on their tank stance.

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Tanks "refusing" to use tank stance in dungeons of all places? Haven't heard that since Stormblood, where tank stance actually had a penalty and AOE moves generally had bonus enmity. Weird to see tanks refusing to pick up a zero-downside buff meant to enable their role...

I don't like this idea.
It changes the attitude with which we press the button: from a positive behavior ("ehi, I know my stuff! I take the lead") to a passive behavior ("I leave the rest to you") and maybe the other is a first timer watching the cutscene.

If we have to change something, I prefer to return to stance-dance, it added a bit of skill and decision making.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Tanks "refusing" to use tank stance in dungeons of all places? Haven't heard that since Stormblood, where tank stance actually had a penalty and AOE moves generally had bonus enmity. Weird to see tanks refusing to pick up a zero-downside buff meant to enable their role...

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Oh you have no idea how bad roulette can be some times. Had one tank the other day who abandoned because he doesn't like to turn on his tank stance. The rest of the party are telling him to turn it on but remained silent then abandoned

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Originally Posted by rawker

Oh you have no idea how bad roulette can be some times. Had one tank the other day who abandoned because he doesn't like to turn on his tank stance. The rest of the party are telling him to turn it on but remained silent then abandoned

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NA duty finder being literally Ohio, jesus.

It's not like you guys have a high chance of language barrier either, we got French and German to consider half the time...

If tanks like that exist then I'm honestly glad I'm playing tank in virtually everything and save 3-7 players a lot of hassle. Good grief.

And to make matters worse, he was w2w pulling. So we've thought it's just a troll. Nevertheless, he got replaced relatively quick

I pity the AST. I feel her pain.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

I don't know why any tank wouldn't want this change.

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Because it dumbs the game down even more. That's why.

I am all for fixing the spaghetti code that turns off tank stance when level syncing. But I am totally against removing any more complexity when it comes to enmity management, however "frustrating" it may be. These kind of propositions from players to simplify and homogenize gameplay even more are just so myopic and underthought, and it gets very disheartening seeing so many players put forth these sort of non-ideas rather than propose solutions that preserve gameplay depth.