For the first 2 weeks of a tier, to enter a raid we should need to be at the entrance

Ok hear me out on this one before you decry how annoying this would be:

Back in ARR or 1.0, in order to enter each tier of coil you had to be outside the raid entrance as an entire party. This actually brought about a very unique experience:

1. you get to see friends and regulars and see how everyone's gear is progressing each week
2. there was a lot of community action around the area
3. it made the overworld feel way more lively

Some of my fondest memories were more from the fun I had outside the raid than actually in the raid.

Right now we have the convenience of not doing this, but as a consequence the overworld is pretty dead outside of things like Yokai, and everyone just hangs around in their FC/personal house. It's like the same issue with WoW Garrisons isolating players.

And with cross-world being a thing I don't mean everyone should need to be in the same world, just the same zone as the entrance is.

On the flip side, I can see how this would be annoying, which is why I'm proposing that this is only applied for like the first few weeks of a new raid/dungeon.

i think thats actually a pretty nice idea.

also its not a big deal since we dont have raids hiding in a corner of the map in an elite area packed with deadly high lvl enemies you need like half an hour to reach each time you go there.

If you really want to gather at the entrance, you can still do that without dragging the rest of us over there unwillingly.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If you really want to gather at the entrance, you can still do that without dragging the rest of us over there unwillingly.

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Then how about this, give a +5min food bonus on top of any current FC buffs if you are near the entrance?

Now if you don't want to be at the entrance you don't have to, and people who do get a little inconsequential bonus.

People aren't hanging out in their housing, unless a static has chosen someone's house as a gathering point because they want to avoid crowds.

They're hanging out in Limsa, Gridania and Ul'dah as they usually do.

If the bonus is as inconsequential as you say, it's not going to get anyone to hang out at the raid entrance any more than they already do.

it really make the open world feel more lively when the raid entrance is in an out of the way location that no one goes to except to enter the raid not to mention the SB, ShB and EW raids have their own separate lobbies that players have to go through to get to the entrance.

Players who want the world to feel like a lively place do hunts, going from world to world for the next train or S rank.

If all raiders are doing is waiting for their party to fill or everyone in their static to get online, they're better off doing it where players are already hanging out and not at the raid entrance.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Players who want the world to feel like a lively place do hunts, going from world to world for the next train or S rank.

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In theory hunts and the suggestion do the same thing, but as someone who does hunts and where around to experience the entrance thing I can't stress how different the two are.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Then how about this, give a +5min food bonus on top of any current FC buffs if you are near the entrance?

Now if you don't want to be at the entrance you don't have to, and people who do get a little inconsequential bonus.

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I already get +15 min food duration from squadron scrolls and I get 10 scrolls per week at the cost of talking to my squadron manager once a week. Another +5min on top of that would be useless, as it won't change the number of foods I have to eat each raid instance.

the deep dungeons require people to queue at the entrance and it is extremely difficult to find people to run them......

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

For the first 2 weeks of a tier, to enter a raid we should need to be at the entrance

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Perhaps a silly question, but: Normal, Savage, or both? Because I honestly don't see how this has any upsides for Normal. (I haven't raided Savage enough to have an informed opinion there.)

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I already get +15 min food duration from squadron scrolls and I get 10 scrolls per week at the cost of talking to my squadron manager once a week. Another +5min on top of that would be useless, as it won't change the number of foods I have to eat each raid instance.

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Which is the point, I don't want to force you there if you don't want to be there, but give a tiny amount to someone on the fence about being there.

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

the deep dungeons require people to queue at the entrance and it is extremely difficult to find people to run them......

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That doesn't really have anything to do with this mechanic though, that's just cause deep dungeon is not popular. And all raid content eventually becomes unpopular, which is why I propose a time cutoff of a few weeks, maybe a month, and then it becomes free-queue.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Perhaps a silly question, but: Normal, Savage, or both? Because I honestly don't see how this has any upsides for Normal. (I haven't raided Savage enough to have an informed opinion there.)

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Imo just savage. Normal mode doers doing it the first time basically direct queue from the story without any prep anyway. But I didn't think this much into the actual details of the implementation.

I see no purpose this serves except to congest areas and clog shout chat with trolls

Where you around during the coil raid patch? Cause I personally found it quite fun. And I feel like my suggestion with the slight buff hurts nobody, if you don't want to be there then it's exactly the same as it is today.

We shouldn't be basing content on whether trolls will ruin the experience or not. If that is the case then the game should just be made single player entirely.

SE's current servers can handle every casual being in the same zone during expansions, and hunts and all, so I feel just a small raider population in the zones wouldn't change anything. But again, we shouldn't be basing content on infrastructure either, the idea is put out there the actual implementation is on SE, and if they need to upgrade the servers then that's on the devs to figure out.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Where you around during the coil raid patch? Cause I personally found it quite fun. And I feel like my suggestion with the slight buff hurts nobody, if you don't want to be there then it's exactly the same as it is today.

We shouldn't be basing content on whether trolls will ruin the experience or not. If that is the case then the game should just be made single player entirely.

SE's current servers can handle every casual being in the same zone during expansions, and hunts and all, so I feel just a small raider population in the zones wouldn't change anything. But again, we shouldn't be basing content on infrastructure either, the idea is put out there the actual implementation is on SE, and if they need to upgrade the servers then that's on the devs to figure out.

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Basing content? Afking by a raid entrance is not content. This idea and your takes on it are just rather strange to me.

I mean this is obviously just some side thing that not everyone would care about. Right now this game has devolved into less of a mmo and more a just queue with rando npcs game. Back when we were at the entrance every week it was actually really fun. But as per my 2nd suggestion, if it's just a slight food buff for being there then if you don't like it you don't need to be at the entrance, then everyone's happy.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about the phrase "basing content"? Let me rephrase, whether there will be trolls should not be a consideration on the game design, if there are trolls you improve other systems like banning or blacklists to take care of that.

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

the deep dungeons require people to queue at the entrance and it is extremely difficult to find people to run them......

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it is, because there are close to 0 rewards for doing them.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

In theory hunts and the suggestion do the same thing, but as someone who does hunts and where around to experience the entrance thing I can't stress how different the two are.

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I know they're different. I used to raid in WoW where there was no choice except to meet at the raid entrance. When did the world feel alive in WoW? During pre-launch events that had players traveling from place to place to place in large groups.

Groups of people standing at one spot do not make the world feel alive. It leaves people feeling bored and all too often impatient. Most players aren't trying to compare themselves to others. They're just waiting for everyone to be ready to start.

If players felt there was some sort of immersion benefit to waiting at a raid entrance, they'd already be doing it. The reality is most just do not care and don't want to feel forced to have to be in a specific location while waiting for the rest of their party. They want to be in a location of their choosing.

Again, you're welcome to wait at the raid entrance if you want. Those who are like-minded can do the same.

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

the deep dungeons require people to queue at the entrance and it is extremely difficult to find people to run them......

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I think that's a very different problem from what the OP wants.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

Right now this game has devolved into less of a mmo and more a just queue with rando npcs game. Back when we were at the entrance every week it was actually really fun.

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I feel the MMO with every hunt. I feel the MMO when one of the big FATEs spawn. I feel the MMO at the Gold Saucer. I feel the MMO if I have reason to be in Limsa, Gridania, Ul'dah.

Standing at a raid entrance is AFK time browsing the internet while wait for the party leader to say "we're all here now, let's get started" on Discord.

What is fun to you is not necessarily fun to others. Accept that. Those who find it more fun to stand around at a raid entrance can do so. Those who don't can be doing the things they prefer to be doing.

Want people to want to be at the raid entrance more often? Maybe SE can let some of the raid enemies "escape" from the raid instance into the open world around the entrance occasionally. Let those enemies have a random chance to drop fun items.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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So do you oppose my suggestion that there should just be a +5m food/gear buff if you're at the entrance, and if that you're free to not be at the entrance and it'll just work like it is today? It would literally not change the game for you at all compared to right now, you are free to ignore it and your interaction with the game will not change, but it will improve mine.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

So do you oppose my suggestion that there should just be a +5m food/gear buff if you're at the entrance, and if that you're free to not be at the entrance and it'll just work like it is today? It would literally not change the game for you at all compared to right now, you are free to ignore it and your interaction with the game will not change, but it will improve mine.

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Yes. You're trying to give yourself a small advantage for your preferred style of game play.

This is why the devs can't add anything to the game without someone complaining, because nobody sees things as a bonus. You see the +5m as the default and a +0m as a loss, instead of the opposite.

For example, devs can't add a bonus for completing a dungeon in a fun way because suddenly everyone expects that to be the default way to play.

Absolutely not. This old fashioned way of entering a raid would mean people slacking off because they can't be asked to travel there. Remember WoW? Remember waiting for AGES while people moved their sorry behinds over to the entrance? No thank you.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

This is why the devs can't add anything to the game without someone complaining, because nobody sees things as a bonus. You see the +5m as the default and a +0m as a loss, instead of the opposite.

For example, devs can't add a bonus for completing a dungeon in a fun way because suddenly everyone expects that to be the default way to play.

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I think it's you who doesn't get that the bonus will immediately become a mandatory thing in the eyes of the community, i.e. not having it is a loss. It's pretty naive to think otherwise. It's just how it works. There's a reason people will "food check" at the beginning of raids - because food is a thing in this game so you are actively bringing the party down by neglecting to boost yourself, no matter how you'll argue it's technically just a bonus.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

This is why the devs can't add anything to the game without someone complaining, because nobody sees things as a bonus. You see the +5m as the default and a +0m as a loss, instead of the opposite.

For example, devs can't add a bonus for completing a dungeon in a fun way because suddenly everyone expects that to be the default way to play.

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Welcome to how gamers have shaped the MMORPG genre.

They want advantage as long as it doesn't mean other players get the same or greater advantage. They want efficiency and are willing to sacrifice fun to get it. Their "friends" stop being friends if those friends aren't helping them get what they want as fast as possible.

If something gives a power increase, no matter how small or short in duration, everyone better have it or they're holding the rest of the party back.

Bonuses should be granted for meaningful effort and not because someone chose to AFK at point X instead of point Y.

The OP makes some valid observations. I do think that having players physically travel to a location to do content does reinforce immersion. You'll often find that in an MMO, things that add convenience often come at the cost of community. That's one of the reasons why people were clamoring for more exploratory content like Eureka and Bozja. It is a throwback to older games where you actually have to talk with other players to form parties and achieve your goals in a common zone, rather than entering a quickplay queue to be dropped off from lobby to instance. You can easily make everything so convenient that the game becomes sterile and disconnected.

I do think that we may see a return to tradition, unintentionally or not, given that S9 is likely both an endgame hub and the location of the Arcadion. I think a compromise is just having a hub built around the entrance with all the necessary facilities so that players naturally congregate there before heading in.

If the idea is that everyone needs to be at the same spot on the same world (so it can't work like DD where you just need to be in that area on your own server) you want us to put up an Extreme or Savage PF with people across different worlds, then waste time figuring out what world we're all going to go over to, then waste time getting everyone over there and to that spot, and then be able to get some prog in? No thanks.

I actually think it sounds really cute to do, but I'd favour it to be optional for the following reasons:

- Some players can be late to scheduled raids. Making them have to travel to the instance delays everyone further.
- Some statics are spread over multiple worlds, meaning if the group wants to be together they'll also have to world hop (without advance planning, this takes more time). If it was forced to be on the same world, the previous point is exacerbated.

But I really like the idea of people gathering in a new space, even temporarily. It's nice to see a bit of community in other areas of the game instead of Limsa, Gridania, Ul'Dah and [latest expansion big cities] as that helps the game feel more alive.

I'm okay with a +5 min food timer as the tiny bonus. It's negligible and doesn't have any tangible impact on the actual fight - it's a nice-to-have.

It works fine atm. People can gather where they want if they want to or not gather at all.

Cities and housing are much more practical as you can do other things as you wait. When waiting for PF, I can craft, gather, browse the MB, use retainers ( if on original world), check my GC squadrons, go to the gold saucer, do quick weeklies like Doman enclave, etc. In the middle of nowhere all I can do is wait…and we can do a lot of waiting with PF. Wait to fill -> Get inside-> wipe->someone leaves-> exit-> rinse and repeat. We’d also have to wait for people to travel to the world and to the meeting point when getting replacements.

How should that be possible with the concept, that people from all servers can come together for the raids and so on?
As much as i know, is the pool for the finder allways from all sub-server, like lich and phoenix. So, that the quere is as fast as possible.

Having all people stay at the entrace area, would nullifing this option.
In addition is it nullifiing the option to do other things, while waiting for the group.

That whole thing would be more a pain, as a help for the people. And could make it harder for shy people to enter a group.
First time i tried a savage raid: I entered a group for that, was shocked, that its a party thing, where you see allready the names of the party member and could speak with them. And not the classic thing, where you see the party first, after entering the doungen.
I instantly leaved the group again, because i feeled to be at the wrong place and was to shy, to stay in the group (even by the hunt trains, have i uneasy feelings, to enter a group, before the work is starting.

Its nice, how it is it now,

Sadly this sort of thing just doesn't work in XIV, you need to remember this is a Japanese MMO the Japanese do not care about the world being lively. Japanese MMO design is mostly monster hunter like you go from a hub to missions it's part of the reason why the XIV world is divided into zones (the other being for consoles.)
Even nowadays WoW players dislike having to go to the raid together and would prefer teleporting in anyway.