[Feedback] Levequest revamp

Currently as it stands, the system is not only outdated, but also punishing.

There's 3 different achievement counting 5000 levequest each (battlecraft, tradecraft and fieldcraft).

It takes 12h for 3 allowances, with limit of 100 allowances at a given time. It takes about 2,5 weeks to receive 100 allowances. Following some basic math, it's going to take 6,8 years to complete 15k levequests, just for these 3 achievements alone.

I understand timegating this was maybe necessary back in ye olden days, however as mentioned above, it's completely outdated.

My proposal to fix this to make it less strenuous:

Option A: Keep 12h timer, but increase allowance from 3 to 9. This would also mean to increase maximum allowances from 100 to 200 or more.
Option B: Decrease the 12h timer to 6h, but keeping 3 allowances.

Option A would decrease the wait from 6,8 years to about 3,4 years. Option B would make it about 2,3 years.

Both are far more acceptable than what we currently have. Game is approaching its 11th birthday, and I believe things like these need to be improved for the betterment of others and the game.

Keep discussion civil.

seeing how the system had ways of rewarding things a bit too much in the past (re: coffee biscuits) keeping things the way they are is just fine. if you're new to the game, well sorry to say you can't "catch up" that fast.

This has nothing to do with the actual leve rewards, though? Even if you nerfed every single leve reward into the ground you'd still have to do like seven years of leves to get those, which is a bit absurd for an achievement that doesn't even have a title iirc. 2-3 years is fine for a very long-term achievement, but once you start pushing near a decade it's a bit much.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

seeing how the system had ways of rewarding things a bit too much in the past (re: coffee biscuits) keeping things the way they are is just fine. if you're new to the game, well sorry to say you can't "catch up" that fast.

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I can tell you haven't bothered reading the message in the first place. I recommend you do again, because nowhere did I mention any rewards.

You could just.....not do the achievement? There's no reward for it anyway, so it's only there as busywork.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

You could just.....not do the achievement? There's no reward for it anyway, so it's only there as busywork.

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While yes, technically no one has to do it, it kinda defeats the purpose of achievement hunting. If SE didn't want people to work on something and feel satisfied getting it done, why put it at 5k each, taking almost 2+ years to achieve just one? Expansions take about 2 years to release (this is just a round number), that means I'd need, and like many others, have to wait about 3 expansions to get just those 3 achievements.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

I can tell you haven't bothered reading the message in the first place. I recommend you do again, because nowhere did I mention any rewards.

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Leves allow you to print gil. Increasing the rate at which you gain allowances increases the rate at which you can print gil.

Now, I'm not convinced the changes proposed here will have that much of an impact on the in-game economy, but a priori, it is at least worth a moment's consideration.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Leves allow you to print gil. Increasing the rate at which you gain allowances increases the rate at which you can print gil.

Now, I'm not convinced the changes proposed here will have that much of an impact on the in-game economy, but a priori, it is at least worth a moment's consideration.

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You can read Rudje's reply from earlier: even if rewards were nerfed to the ground, it doesn't change the fact it still takes 7 years to complete the achievements.

Besides, you worry so much about printing gil from leves, what about submarines? Sure, it may be a limited number of FCs doing that, but making gil in this game is extremely easy, I don't see how that changes anything.

I wish they did something about leves but i just dont see it happening. Nearly 7 years for an achievement is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Mecia

I wish they did something about leves but i just dont see it happening. Nearly 7 years for an achievement is ridiculous.

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Not only that, but what if you miss few days and let it overflow? You're pushed back, punished because maybe you were busy with real life. If the game is meant to be enjoyed, as it currently is, this particular issue is not so enjoyable. Even PvP is less punishing than this.

Uh,

I think they just need better milestone achievements... I'd have gone with... 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, 1500, 2500, 5000 as the milestones.

I'm always conflicted on this , because on one hand it can be seen as a problem due to the time-gated nature of it, but on the other hand these end achievements are meant to serve as lifetime achievements. Just how gathering or catching 10,000 collectables is meant to function as a lifetime achievements.

If I had to compromise though..., I probably would add these milestones mentioned above, cut the refresh from every 12 hours to every 8 hours, but also cut the reward by 20%... Cutting it more just adds diminishing returns for actually doing them outside of achievement progress. I would then probably add title rewards at certain milestones, e.g., at 1500 levequests, add a title such as "Battlecraft Master", and then upgrading to an additional title "Battlecraft Grandmaster" at 5000.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Leves allow you to print gil. Increasing the rate at which you gain allowances increases the rate at which you can print gil.

Now, I'm not convinced the changes proposed here will have that much of an impact on the in-game economy, but a priori, it is at least worth a moment's consideration.

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Wouldn't it be possible to adjust the amount of gil relative to the amount of allowances if it turns out to be a big problem? As in, if you get twice the number of allowances you halve the amount of gil you get per quest.

you weren't around when the nerf to coffee biscuits gil reward announcement came out. the whining.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

you weren't around when the nerf to coffee biscuits gil reward announcement came out. the whining.

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I was there, and I didn't care. You still can make easy gil in the game, not just through leves. I don't care about the rewards, I care about the timegating for 7 years, just because I didn't start the game in 2013 and faithfully did every single leve every single time. It's absurd.

Leve allowance should have been split based on leve type honestly. Nobody does battlecraft or fieldcraft leves for anything but exp and completion.
It goes without saying that if they made allowances more plentiful a nerf to the gil rewards would be paired with it. This community kisses the ass of the developers so much, yet just so they can have their weak arguments they will act as if they wouldn't have common sense for adjustments like these.

Anyway agree with the general sentiment of the threat creator. Time gating achievements for longer than 2 years is trash game design. If they won't touch the content itself at least lower those ludicrous numbers. Imagine looking at 1 achievement title and wondering if you will even be in condition to continue playing the game by the time it would take to unlock it.

Any achievement needing 7 whole years to complete is a pretty bad design. It shows that they really didn't think 'is it even possible within a reasonable amount of time to be done' vs 'Just increase the number guys'

They could also just make allowances apply to rewards only. That way leves could be given out more or even uncapped.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Currently as it stands, the system is not only outdated, but also punishing.

There's 3 different achievement counting 5000 levequest each (battlecraft, tradecraft and fieldcraft).

It takes 12h for 3 allowances, with limit of 100 allowances at a given time. It takes about 2,5 weeks to receive 100 allowances. Following some basic math, it's going to take 6,8 years to complete 15k levequests, just for these 3 achievements alone.

I understand timegating this was maybe necessary back in ye olden days, however as mentioned above, it's completely outdated.

My proposal to fix this to make it less strenuous:

Option A: Keep 12h timer, but increase allowance from 3 to 9. This would also mean to increase maximum allowances from 100 to 200 or more.
Option B: Decrease the 12h timer to 6h, but keeping 3 allowances.

Option A would decrease the wait from 6,8 years to about 3,4 years. Option B would make it about 2,3 years.

Both are far more acceptable than what we currently have. Game is approaching its 11th birthday, and I believe things like these need to be improved for the betterment of others and the game.

Keep discussion civil.

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The achievements are unimportant, so it doesn't really matter how long it takes to get them. Or if you ever get them.

If for some strange reason you think the achievements actually are important, the obvious solution would be to reduce the requirements for them - not to mess around with the levequest system itself.
The limits are not there for the achievements, but to make sure you can't get too many xp per day from levequests.

Having done 15,000 levequests (more, actually), I do not think nerfing the timer would benefit anyone.
It's something you can spend a few minutes each day on. Or a little longer once a week, however you wanna break that down. It's actually quite a forgiving system because until you hit your 100 cap you aren't missing anything. You won't fall behind your schedule just because a day or two went by you couldn't make it.

While I wouldn't want everything inthe game to have multi-year long grinds, it's nice to have a few like that. Lets you work on something between other content.

I have those three achievements. Why would you want the same but for less work or time invested?

Can we also get a mass turn in option?
its so archaic having to grab 1 at a time and do this 100 times when you let the leves build up
infact thats a bigger issue than the timer lol i just don't like the repetitiveness of turning them in

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Leves allow you to print gil. Increasing the rate at which you gain allowances increases the rate at which you can print gil.

Now, I'm not convinced the changes proposed here will have that much of an impact on the in-game economy, but a priori, it is at least worth a moment's consideration.

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Do they really give enough Gil that the profit would outweigh the massive tedium of grinding through that many Levequests?

Even doing the Leve grinds just for certain Challenge Logs and Relic Weapons kills my soul

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

Do they really give enough Gil that the profit would outweigh the massive tedium of grinding through that many Levequests?

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That will vary from person to person. 10k gil for a leve that takes on average maybe a minute to gather the mats for and another minute to let a macro run, and that I can repeat indefinitely doesn't strike me as so bad, especially if I read or watch something else while waiting for the macro to do its thing.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I have those three achievements. Why would you want the same but for less work or time invested?

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I know veterans love to use this argument, but let's be real.
Levequests are already less work and less time consuming than they were several years ago. Battlecraft levequests are max lvl 68, while the current cap is lvl 90. Flying was added to ARR maps. Quick synthesis no longer fails. Etc, etc.
A somewhat similar analogy would be to take a player who farmed, idk, the A12S mount or Nightmare sync back in HW and ARR, and complaining that newer players can get the same level of Prestige™ by simply solo farming it in EW and without weekly restrictions (or worse, getting it through the Moogle Treasure Trove events without even unlocking the content. The horror!).
Or Big Fishing, obviously older big fish get easier and easier to catch as people get more gear and more GP (+ Fish Eyes + Angler Arts now).

Hell, you can even buy from an NPC the low level fish you need to work on the Fieldcraft levequest achievements. Such effort! Such work!

I don't really think there's much prestige to gain from these levequests achievements (and I say this as a fellow achievement hunter). If you want to show off that you've been playing for 7+ years, there are titles and items that are better suited for that (even if I wish everyone could still get them, but that's another story). If it was Legacy content I'd understand, but this is just... an item on a to do list. That gives you points. And a rainbow colored sticker on Lalachievements I guess.

Grind wise it would be on the same level as the For The Hoard ones, but the difference is the huge timegating. The Hoarder/The Accursed titles are already enough of a pain to get as they are implemented right now, but imagine if you could only get 6 pieces of the Accursed Hoard per day. Even if you use the method some people have used to fasten the process, that would take more than 9 years!

Island Sanctuary's time gating and its convenient achievements timed around it already made me raise an eyebrow (I forgot the details, but there was one achievement that at the time would take exactly the amount of time between the newest patch and the next Island Sanctuary update patch, which meant that you couldn't really take a break from the grind if you wanted to stay on top of things), but at least time wise it was somewhat reasonable.

But those levequests achievements have been around since ARR and HW. The 10k HQ crafts achievements have been around for just as long, and look how fast you can get them now compared to pre-ShB. I think asking to slightly adjust the system to reduce the time it takes to get them (I'd still be fine with idk, 3-4 years personally) isn't that unreasonable.

However I do agree that in terms of gil and EXP the adjustment could be exploited (beep boop) but then maybe there should be a hard cap on EXP and gil earned from levequests, and not on allowances themselves (and Honest Gillionaire would become a more prestigious title that's worth showing off). Obviously then the question would be "what's the point of doing levequests, then?" but what was the point of introducing these achievements in ARR and HW when you had all your crafters and gatherers and DoW/DoM jobs capped long before the end of the expansion (so WAY long before you'd get those achievements), when they could have started at a lower milestone and slightly raised it each expansion?

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Having done 15,000 levequests (more, actually), I do not think nerfing the timer would benefit anyone.
It's something you can spend a few minutes each day on. Or a little longer once a week, however you wanna break that down. It's actually quite a forgiving system because until you hit your 100 cap you aren't missing anything. You won't fall behind your schedule just because a day or two went by you couldn't make it.

While I wouldn't want everything inthe game to have multi-year long grinds, it's nice to have a few like that. Lets you work on something between other content.

I have those three achievements. Why would you want the same but for less work or time invested?

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Ah, nothing like "screw you, got mine" arguments.

some things are a slog and should remain a slog for slog's sake.

the prestige argument is the same kind of thing that people argue about for the old feast top 100 mounts too.

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Originally Posted by Mecia

They could also just make allowances apply to rewards only. That way leves could be given out more or even uncapped.

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This is a good alternative also.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

That will vary from person to person. 10k gil for a leve that takes on average maybe a minute to gather the mats for and another minute to let a macro run, and that I can repeat indefinitely doesn't strike me as so bad, especially if I read or watch something else while waiting for the macro to do its thing.

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Ah, you're talking about crafting Leves, then? I never interact with the other types of Leves, so I forgot those existed.

Ignore me!