7.0 Graphics Update - Midlander F feedback

I am incredibly unhappy with my character's appearance in the 7.0 benchmark, and like others have done I want to try to provide as much specific feedback as possible as to why.

First, regarding lighting and textures:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...c263a2bcea86b&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d982263533eb7&

I tried to recreate the lighting conditions from the benchmark screenshot as accurately as I could. In the benchmark, there is a distinct and distracting "fuzzy" quality to all of her features. Her lips look incredibly flat and clumsily fade into the skin around her mouth, rather than being a distinct shape. The shadow under her chin is nonexistent now, making her head blend into her neck even with the benchmark's "good" lighting. Worst of all are her eyes; the shadow cast over her eyes by her upper eyelids make her appear half-asleep, and the lack of a shine spot except under very specific lighting conditions make her look dead inside.

Second, regarding changes to her actual facial features (she is face 1 for reference):

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...64f3ec512d875&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...efa4274c444c8&

Her eyebrows (type 4) have been noticeably thinned out, which massively changes the balance and character of her face. The shape of her eyeliner has been altered, bringing the outer corners down and in and over-emphasizing the inner corners, which makes her look dull and passive. Her eyes themselves (type 5) have also been subtly altered, with the inner corners shrinking away from her nose, which I think significantly reduces the sharp, anime-like quality that made me choose the option. Her nose (type 4) has been downturned noticeably, and the way the edge of her nostrils blends awkwardly into her face makes it appear wider from some angles. Her upper lip shape has changed, further emphasizing the flat and dull quality they take on in the new lighting. Finally, and maybe most baffling of all, her beauty mark has shrunk considerably.

I do not understand why Square Enix felt the need to make so many changes to the actual shape of facial features themselves. Even subtle changes can have a profound impact on the look of a character, and after we were told that they would work hard to ensure that our characters were recognizable after the update, this feels even more upsetting.

It wouldn't fit in the character limit of the initial post, but I wanted to include a more personal note- I have been immensely attached to my WoL ever since I made her a little under 4 years ago, and last night I stayed awake sobbing over these changes. I know that sounds dramatic, but that is honestly how upset I am. She looks like a completely different person to me, she no longer feels like she's mine. I am not trying to be stubborn or combative, or reject change for the sake of it. I was incredibly excited for Dawntrail and the graphics update, but now I am dreading it. For those who are happy with how their WoLs came out in the benchmark, I am happy for you, but I need to ask- were you already happy with how your WoL looked in Endwalker? I would guess most people would say yes. Given how many posts I'm seeing with people that are devastated over how their WoL looks now, can we really say this is worth it? To make some people marginally happier at the cost of making many people feel distraught?

So after much more comparison and investigation, I figured out what exactly is giving me such an uncanny reaction to the new model (let this also serve as refutation to the people still claiming this is "just lighting"):

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ccaf2febf7f20&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a3b810a81eec4&

In this side by side comparison, you can see that her cheeks have shrunken back significantly where they meet her nostrils, causing her nose to look much bigger and wider overall. This is nose 4, which I choose because it is the smallest and thinnest option available, so I don't like that it has been given such a larger emphasis in her facial balance.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b42f1689e0758&

Here's both traces overlayed on her benchmark appearance for a better visual of what I mean. Additionally, in this image you can see that the shape of her eye has been changed; her lower eyelid has a much more pronounced upward slant. You can see how much of her old eye was cut off by comparing the red and green lines. To me, this makes her look like she is squinting all the time.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8e49807bc3b28&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9afb307989dd1&

Here are the clean screenshots in case anyone wants to judge my linework. I definitely didn't do a perfect job, but the nostril and eye differences are dramatic enough that it doesn't really matter.

Again, I feel the need to ask: Why these arbitrary changes? In my personal opinion the benchmark face doesn't look more natural or realistic aside from textures, and it came at the cost of a pretty large alteration to the overall balance of her face. What would have been wrong with just using the same general sculpt and updating the textures/lighting/etc?

(P.S. if anyone is wondering if these differences are because the faces might be very slightly rotated from one another, I made sure they weren't by selecting the inn background and making sure that not a single background element moved so much as a pixel when I tabbed between the game and the benchmark.)

I am also incredibly upset with these unnecessary changes as a face 1 midlander.
No matter the lightning/angles or gamma correction i try to view her, in the benchmark character creation or in the benchmark itself, i find her new changes very unappealing

https://i.imgur.com/6TgkQva.png

https://i.imgur.com/MsZGeLp.jpeg

I would also like to point out that along with the face shape changes the lips have all been changed as well. mouth type 2 has almost completely lost its cupids bow when before it was quite pronounced. Eye shape 5 also appears smaller in the new benchmark. I have had my WoL for 8 years, she looks so different in the benchmark and so much of it I just can't place my finger on why she looks so different, but I will say it is wonderful to see actual ears.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Istovit

I would also like to point out that along with the face shape changes the lips have all been changed as well. mouth type 2 has almost completely lost its cupids bow when before it was quite pronounced. Eye shape 5 also appears smaller in the new benchmark. I have had my WoL for 8 years, she looks so different in the benchmark and so much of it I just can't place my finger on why she looks so different, but I will say it is wonderful to see actual ears.

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Thanks for saying this, I didn't get into it as much but the lip shapes are visibly different as well. I think other's characters Ive seen got it WAY worse than I did, but even then I hate how awkwardly the new lips blend into the surrounding skin and lost all their glossiness. And glad it's not just me seeing the drastic changes to eyes 5.

Thanks for all your time & effort you put into the research for this post :D

I'm really looking forward to Dawn Trail and find it amazing how much better the world looks! Regarding the WoL updates, me and my friend are quite shocked at how our Midlander WoLs have looked in the benchmark. Also I do not think that your reaction was overly dramatic, I am myself very attached to my WoL and would like to keep her as true to her old self as possible on the next journey. I know that we will get a free Phantasia, but I think that I chose the best presets for my taste and I highly doubt that using Phantasia or adding a few more presets to choose from will do much, unless it's maybe a race change (which I would rather not do). We took pictures from the same appearance data in character creation with the blue & the desert background and compared the two (tried to keep everything as similar as possible). Here are our observations so far:

The quality/resolution has improved significantly, but I wonder if the current modeling could be adjusted to make it look like the original again. The overall look of the face seems somehow different, even if there are only small changes, especially to the eyes, nose and lips. The hair textures are sharper, but now the hairstyles look way too wiry and doesn't reflect light like it should. I'm very happy though, that the eye-colour itself is popping and didn't change much (would love to see that lil white dot reflection back though, even if it makes lighting-wise no sense but that's just one of my pet peeves).

As mentioned above, the lips appear to be wider, but not as plump as before and the pout effect is no longer there. The nose no longer looks as straight and the eyelashes don't look dynamic / naturally placed enough. It would be better if Square Enix could adjust the model based on the "perceived shape" and not the "actual shape". For example, for the eyes the placement & length of the eyelashes, eyeliner and for the mouth the shape of the lipstick (not just the lips) and for the nose the width of the nose bridge and the size, curvature and direction of the tip of the nose. I am aware that a lot of it is lighting, but you can clearly see that some of the differences can't be attributed to lighting only.


https://i.imgur.com/91i3UCG.png
https://i.imgur.com/c6b2a7L.png
https://i.imgur.com/zXc9mIg.png
https://i.imgur.com/buhMkvO.png
https://i.imgur.com/vXdSXW5.png

I tried to fiddle around with contrast to see if I can make out the shapes of the eyes, nose or lips a little better and tried to highlight them according to my overall perception:

https://i.imgur.com/zUOVphY.png
https://i.imgur.com/dF2WCgx.png
https://i.imgur.com/APASDBj.png
https://i.imgur.com/Qu548fE.png
https://i.imgur.com/D0SPd0E.png

Full album: https://imgur.com/a/ZRuTm5T

Here are pictures from another Midlander WoL, with a different face preset:

https://i.imgur.com/7mlmVFB.png
https://i.imgur.com/HZCgBXR.png
https://i.imgur.com/Th6x4HM.png
https://i.imgur.com/yQVDp6W.png
https://i.imgur.com/na9I7TA.png
https://i.imgur.com/Dd8TZNi.png
https://i.imgur.com/EsXKxPC.png
https://i.imgur.com/U3v49pK.png

We observed the same issues with the different appearance here too. Again, the hair reflects light not as beautifully as it did before and the gaze seems a bit too intense? This WoL has a very dramatic eye-colour, but the gaze could be a little bit more soft. Overall, the older WoL looks a lot softer and more youthful. It would be great, if Square Enix could add the cherry-lips back instead of the flat, wider mouth and to have the nosetip be more pointy and upwards again with a slimmer nose bridge.

Full album: https://imgur.com/a/6iu45g7

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercelia

https://i.imgur.com/zUOVphY.png
https://i.imgur.com/dF2WCgx.png
https://i.imgur.com/APASDBj.png
https://i.imgur.com/Qu548fE.png
https://i.imgur.com/D0SPd0E.png

Full album: https://imgur.com/a/ZRuTm5T

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Thank you for this very thorough and thoughtful addition! I'm an especially big fan of these last few images, they really get the point across about the subtle and very unnecessary changes to the shapes of features.

I will also post my WoL with her happy smile showing slightly some teeth....and the new, sadder one:

http://imgur.com/a/aSSYBtA

i dont know how to post only pictures...sry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Antiora

I will also post my WoL with her happy smile showing slightly some teeth....and the new, sadder one:

http://imgur.com/a/aSSYBtA

i dont know how to post only pictures...sry

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That's a REALLY stark difference, wow. Which mouth option is that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noumen0nn

That's a REALLY stark difference, wow. Which mouth option is that?

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Head 5, mouth 1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Antiora

I will also post my WoL with her happy smile showing slightly some teeth....and the new, sadder one:

http://imgur.com/a/aSSYBtA

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Thank you for posting this! Though I am generally happy with my face 5 Midlander (I like the brighter eyes and the skin texture) the mouth is a sticking point for me. It took me awhile to put my finger on why she looked more serious, and your pictures show it well. I agree that it looked better just a bit upturned.

As an aside, this doesn't seem to be an issue that is unique to this face; a lot of mouths seem to have gone from very slightly upturned to straight, giving characters a more solemn, less friendly look. I hope this will be fixed! I mean, isn't Dawntrail supposed to have a lighter tone? Would be a shame to lose our smiles for it. :)

Just asking for Face 1 to have actual colored eyebrows like Face 5...
Can Face 1 have actual depth in the eyebrows, too?

https://i.imgur.com/fPuUvDS.jpeg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuriKett

I am also incredibly upset with these unnecessary changes as a face 1 midlander.
No matter the lightning/angles or gamma correction i try to view her, in the benchmark character creation or in the benchmark itself, i find her new changes very unappealing

https://i.imgur.com/6TgkQva.png

https://i.imgur.com/MsZGeLp.jpeg

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The update makes her look like rubber. Her skin + the shine added make her look very flat & dull. Almost pallid.
They REALLY need to rework the darker skin tones. (all skin tones)

After the benchmark I immediately changed from Midlander F to Miqo F.

I had enjoyed the more angle features on my middy F in the current state of the game (I wanted my WoL MidF to resemble Ashelia with a pointy European like nose & high cheekbones) but the update softens them too much & takes away those angles. Idk if catlike is the word for face type 1, but that's the word I will use for now.

The update widens their noses on face 1 & eyes (making them appear surprised) rather than just giving us a lip & skin texture/coloring update. I don't see how this is an upgrade. Just moved it from one corner to the next without any purpose.

-All of the skin tones on Midlander are flat & dull I might add.
-Dark skin tones are awful looking in the update.
- No natural flush, no natural contouring & all of the angles are soft & sort of melted down.

The graphical update gives them a muted, waxy & dull appearance. While the original has a brighter face for all of the faces on midlander F.
I'm not any type of skin expert but I am a portrait artist & imho to improve the midlander skin tones, they just needed some better brows & lip textures + some skin shading & flush.
Skin is not one tone or color. It has many colors within it. While it would be too much of an ask to go and re-color all skin tones to appear with more depth; a little shading, natural highlight & flush tones here & there would go a long way.
Adding a shiny unwashed oily look does not = an update to me.
They look almost silicone or hollow now. As I said earlier, waxy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdlerTakamura

Just asking for Face 1 to have actual colored eyebrows like Face 5...
Can Face 1 have actual depth in the eyebrows, too?

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Personally I'd really prefer it if they didn't match eyebrows to hair color. It somewhat works in the image you linked, but as soon as your skin and brow color match too closely they go invisible again.

It would be nice if they added some more depth to the individual hair strokes of eyebrows in general, and even better; allowing everyone to choose the eyebrow color separately would solve a lot of these issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Personally I'd really prefer it if they didn't match eyebrows to hair color. It somewhat works in the image you linked, but as soon as your skin and brow color match too closely they go invisible again.

It would be nice if they added some more depth to the individual hair strokes of eyebrows in general, and even better; allowing everyone to choose the eyebrow color separately would solve a lot of these issues.

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I think it should be a separate choice option. Leave it for those who want it, but have it to be optional for those who prefer not to have it.
Just like when choosing two different eye colors or highlights for hair. Let it be a toggle.

Agreed on both of you. My middie has pale skin and orange hair, but black-ish eyebrows. I wish I had the OPTION to have also orange eyebrows.

Currently, Face 1 eyebrows do change their hue depending on hair color, but you have to really squint your eyes to see it, and depending on the skin/hair combination, the results can be really bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercelia

https://i.imgur.com/Qu548fE.png
https://i.imgur.com/D0SPd0E.png

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These changes were the most obvious to me on my own character: the larger nose bridge, the exaggerated eyeliner, and the shape of the lips. Despite what some may think, it really changes how the character looks.

The real question is why does my Middie have freckles by default? On the cheeks AND the chin. No face paint. This is face 1 but there are freckles on every benchmark face if I remember correctly. (I'm also not fond of the overly blurry mouth.)

Current vs benchmark:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...309f71372fa82&

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

The real question is why does my Middie have freckles by default? On the cheeks AND the chin. No face paint. This is face 1 but there are freckles on every benchmark face if I remember correctly. (I'm also not fond of the overly blurry mouth.)

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The wrinkles in the eyelids are also quite difference. Original face has subtle wrinkles at the upper and lower eyelids. On the new face those are mostly smoothed away.
And the lower eyelid was already very thick in the original face, in the new face it's even thicker. That isn't an improvement, and changes the shape of the eye.

This is a the shape and size (400%) upscaled) of the fleshy part of the lower left eyelid between the skin and the eye, on both faces.
https://i.postimg.cc/RC3yZCZC/eyelid.jpg

I hope they remove the goth eyeliner that was added to face 5 which I'm increasingly convinced is a bug, since it seemingly disappears under certain lighting conditions. Some Highlanders and Au Ra have it too I believe.

https://i.imgur.com/JXKt0Js.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

The real question is why does my Middie have freckles by default? On the cheeks AND the chin. No face paint. This is face 1 but there are freckles on every benchmark face if I remember correctly. (I'm also not fond of the overly blurry mouth.)

Current vs benchmark:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...309f71372fa82&

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I noticed this as well! I don't know if I'd call them freckles per say, but whatever you call them, they are REALLY noticeable when in shadow. If you go back to the first screenshot I posted of the close-up from the benchmark, it almost looks like a bruise on her cheek, on the side of her face opposite the light. I see it a little bit in Underscore's picture as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aiqa

The wrinkles in the eyelids are also quite difference. Original face has subtle wrinkles at the upper and lower eyelids. On the new face those are mostly smoothed away.
And the lower eyelid was already very thick in the original face, in the new face it's even thicker. That isn't an improvement, and changes the shape of the eye.

This is a the shape and size (400%) upscaled) of the fleshy part of the lower left eyelid between the skin and the eye, on both faces.
https://i.postimg.cc/RC3yZCZC/eyelid.jpg

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That's some great attention to detail! The eyes in general are a problem area, we seem to have gotten a lot of shape changes in general, and it's even more noticeable on midlanders with eyeliner (as in the face feature option, not the weird unremoveable stuff they put on face 5.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

The real question is why does my Middie have freckles by default? On the cheeks AND the chin. No face paint. This is face 1 but there are freckles on every benchmark face if I remember correctly. (I'm also not fond of the overly blurry mouth.)

Current vs benchmark:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...309f71372fa82&

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I have a feeling that is an attempt to give the impression of the pore texture or unevenness of skin. Its obviously very low res so they may have exaggerated the contrast slightly to make it pronounced. They were probably going for a more natural/no makeup look and overshot it a little bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JaellaArwana

I have a feeling that is an attempt to give the impression of the pore texture or unevenness of skin.

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At first I thought so as well, but in the benchmark trailer I noticed they added some actual texture and unevenness to the skin so I wonder why they would need to double up on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yencat

https://i.imgur.com/x0b2ZBk.png

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