I feel like people are too harsh on Endwalker, though...

... That's not to say I don't have issues.

(Sorry if that seems bait-y, just couldn't fit all of that in the title.)

I mean exactly that. Maybe it's just the parts of the internet I'm on, but it feels like people really don't like this expansion, almost in it's entirety, when that feels like blowing it somewhat out of proportion. It's not nearly that bad... But it does have it's issues.

I've seen people diss the MSQ for being what it is, which, I personally believe to be an injustice of sorts. 6.0 had some of the most heart-string plucking, gut-wrenching, and tear-jerking story, interactions, and overall plot that I've ever had the joy of playing through... Though the patch content leaves much to be desired. Although I like Zero and think she could be an interesting enough character, I think doing what ARR did and setting up another story that we might not see the full pay off for until much later is a step backwards. Sure someday we might look back on it fondly and be happy we got that setup, but, I don't know- it feels like they're playing their hand a little early.

One thing I will give only flak for is the Relic Weapons though. Yes, we've heard that a million times. What they did this expansion just wasn't right. Where as with Shadowbringers relics we were all going to new and old content alike, breathing life into parts of the game that might not have seen much action otherwise, Endwalker told us to just... Play. Sure I can do that, but isn't it better to give your players a journey to actually undergo? Being as simple as just playing the game makes it feel as if there's no reason to really do much during this break period. Content that doesn't see much action is laying there dusty on the shelf, and the new content they introduced is seeing less action than it could- I still haven't made it to the bottom of Eureka Orthos. Maybe I would have done that by now if I had more of an incentive to do it.

Ah, maybe I'm just complaining a bit too much. Me and my friends are all excited for the new story, and the new classes in Dawntrail, knowing full well that we're not doing much other than having fun in the Turalian sun, so maybe I shouldn't look back on what got us here so negatively. Even if it wasn't the best thing to go through, I'm still grateful it got us to this point, so now we can go on a new adventure!

I'm pretty sure that when people complain about the story, they are almost always referring to the patch content. Don't think anyone has much issue with the main expansion story, except for some nitpicking about time travel and what have you.

It's the oversimplification and Homogenization that is problematic.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm pretty sure that when people complain about the story, they are almost always referring to the patch content. Don't think anyone has much issue with the main expansion story, except for some nitpicking about time travel and what have you.

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I have some problems with the main expansion story but I'm not sure if this is the place to talk about them.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm pretty sure that when people complain about the story, they are almost always referring to the patch content. Don't think anyone has much issue with the main expansion story, except for some nitpicking about time travel and what have you.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...walker/page930
Granted half of the thread is probably just people arguing in circles but that's still over 400 pages of grievances with Endwalker's story.
If you look at it with a more critical eye and not just through the "It made me feel things"-lens then there are absolutely issues with the 6.0 MSQ.

I enjoyed EW. I do at times think MSQ was too heavy for some players with the suicide scene, mother & baby dying, etc.
There are some aspects EW that could have been done better but overall I liked & enjoyed EW.

Repeating what I said in another thread, but since it's just as relevant here:
I'm actually not in the 'Endwalker sucks' camp here - I enjoyed it and I'm not willing to pretend otherwise. And I wasn't exposed to the pre-launch marketing/hype since I didn't start playing the game until shortly after EW launched and avoided anything related to it for the sake of not spoiling the MSQ for myself. Playing the MSQ at my own pace, I didn't actually reach Endwalker until the following March.

And I watched the Footfalls Cinematic right before I started Endwalker. To this day I still think that cinematic was incredible - I recall watching it that first time. The music and the lyrics, the promise of a 'end of the world' scenario story. The emphasis on the moon and the question of it's role in the story, not to mention the question of why the Warrior of Light was actually on the moon - alone no less! I was completely blown away by it and couldn't wait to see how it would all translate into the story.

But even as someone who very much enjoyed Endwalker.... I don't think the story quite lived up to what the cinematic portrayed.

'The Final Days' should've been a world-changing, almost apocalyptic, event - but it doesn't feel as if it had as big an impact, or long-term consequence, on the world as Dalamud/Bahamut did.

i think the "impact" was lessened because until Bahamut's wings burst forth from Dalamud we had absolutely no idea (I think) about what was going to happen so it was a big shock.

Whereas for the Final Days we had already witnessed a preview via the Shadowbringers storyline so we knew what to expect when it started happening.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

i think the "impact" was lessened because until Bahamut's wings burst forth from Dalamud we had absolutely no idea (I think) about what was going to happen so it was a big shock.

Whereas for the Final Days we had already witnessed a preview via the Shadowbringers storyline so we knew what to expect when it started happening.

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That’s a big thing, as dalamud fell during legacy we had no idea what was going to happen

A giant dragon elder primal bound by an scientist society was not high amongst the list of potential things dalamud falling was likely to lead to

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

i think the "impact" was lessened because until Bahamut's wings burst forth from Dalamud we had absolutely no idea (I think) about what was going to happen so it was a big shock.

Whereas for the Final Days we had already witnessed a preview via the Shadowbringers storyline so we knew what to expect when it started happening.

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IMO at the end of the story arc it's better to have a threat that has been built up to as main villian. Otherwise we're left with something like FF9's Necron who looks cool and all but was a massive pull from the butt.

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Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010

I do at times think MSQ was too heavy for some players with the suicide scene, mother & baby dying, etc.

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It was perfect that more difficult themes were tackled. Please, enough with the preening of absolutely everything and anything. We've already got it in the gameplay, with classes that must "avoid stress" at all costs as soon as they're anything other than dps; let's not start taking away the rare moments when MSQ isn't an ode to friendship. Video games are not designed to suit the escapism of players who want to take refuge from harsh reality. It can be so much more than that...

As for the OP: I really enjoyed Endwalker, but I think the theme in general should have been harder. Some themes are only sketched out, when they could have led to really interesting reflection. But, precisely to suit an audience that seems to be defined by default as ultra-sensitive, the game refuses to venture into this area. Which is a pity, given the general tone of this extension. Personally, that's what bothered me on several occasions: this sort of impression that the game is straddling the fence, then censoring itself at the last minute to suit a wider audience. It left me with an impression... of unfinished?

An example: the moment when we cause the death of the young girl and her sister, because they flee when we come to Garlemald. A very good passage, but where's the questioning of our interventionism? When do we point out that it's completely stupid to act in this way after decades of war, and by sending the warrior of light who must pass, in these regions, for a potential genocidaire? The game skims the surface of a very interesting theme, then retropedals with a meager "oh, that's sad". Lucia tells us, I think, that she's "sorry we had to witness that... Huh? No, just yell at us, tell us that coming face to face with a small, obviously indoctrinated village was bound to end this way. Address the fact that the "good" and "bad" sides are just illusions; after all, that's what you did with Shb, so go all the way! More embarrassingly, this desire never to violate the player is symptomatic of a global approach to AAA today. FFXIV is just one example. This can be felt in the gameplay (too simple, not punitive enough) and in the stories (padded, as if we were in a cocoon of kindness). The result is very consensual content, which is good as a pastime but mediocre as a game.

Just to temper things, because if I read my own post I'd be inclined to reply: "But why are you still on the game, exactly?" I liked Endwalker, I repeat myself, and I find that indeed some people are a bit harsh. But it's nowhere near what it could have been, and that's what annoys me a bit about this expansion.

One other examples come to mind, just so I can get it out of my system: Zenos is, in many ways, a kind of metaphor for what WOL could have been if it had remained on its own. A monster lost in his solitude and his quest for power, devoid of a clear and defined goal (which is what the scions give us). This theme should have been pushed to the end. In the same way that the game didn't dare inflict the consequences of light absorption on us in Shb, it carefully avoids dealing with the obvious: the WOL is a monster in his own right, in terms of power, because they have killed far too many people to stay "pure" and "innocent".

I personally liked Endwalker main scenario for the most part, I do wish Garlemald lasted longer for instance. I mean outside of that patch story was a little meh, I did miss a large duty zone but I will praise them for the abundance of QoL and additions they put in place for the new player experience. There is a lot of work they’ve done to make it much easier for people to get through content and now I think Dawntrail if we are to believe them at their word is now going back to the mmo routes. I have a feeling this is going to be another stormblood expansion as in average storage but a great content cycle and I am ok with that.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

It was perfect that more difficult themes were tackled. Please, enough with the preening of absolutely everything and anything. We've already got it in the gameplay, with classes that must "avoid stress" at all costs as soon as they're anything other than dps; let's not start taking away the rare moments when MSQ isn't an ode to friendship. Video games are not designed to suit the escapism of players who want to take refuge from harsh reality. It can be so much more than that...

As for the OP: I really enjoyed Endwalker, but I think the theme in general should have been harder. Some themes are only sketched out, when they could have led to really interesting reflection. But, precisely to suit an audience that seems to be defined by default as ultra-sensitive, the game refuses to venture into this area. Which is a pity, given the general tone of this extension. Personally, that's what bothered me on several occasions: this sort of impression that the game is straddling the fence, then censoring itself at the last minute to suit a wider audience. It left me with an impression... of unfinished?

An example: the moment when we cause the death of the young girl and her sister, because they flee when we come to Garlemald. A very good passage, but where's the questioning of our interventionism? When do we point out that it's completely stupid to act in this way after decades of war, and by sending the warrior of light who must pass, in these regions, for a potential genocidaire? The game skims the surface of a very interesting theme, then retropedals with a meager "oh, that's sad". Lucia tells us, I think, that she's "sorry we had to witness that... Huh? No, just yell at us, tell us that coming face to face with a small, obviously indoctrinated village was bound to end this way. Address the fact that the "good" and "bad" sides are just illusions; after all, that's what you did with Shb, so go all the way! More embarrassingly, this desire never to violate the player is symptomatic of a global approach to AAA today. FFXIV is just one example. This can be felt in the gameplay (too simple, not punitive enough) and in the stories (padded, as if we were in a cocoon of kindness). The result is very consensual content, which is good as a pastime but mediocre as a game.

Just to temper things, because if I read my own post I'd be inclined to reply: "But why are you still on the game, exactly?" I liked Endwalker, I repeat myself, and I find that indeed some people are a bit harsh. But it's nowhere near what it could have been, and that's what annoys me a bit about this expansion.

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Well, you can disagree with my comment. I love EW but I was just saying that some of the aspects of the story were too heavy for some players which probably turned them off from the game. If a player knew someone who committed suicide in real life, then that might hit them hard seeing it in a game. BTW I do play the game to escape. Thats why I am going to enjoy DT, to escape.

I sure didn't care for Endwalkers story or its duties. I liked them so much that I have never unlocked one of its raids or ran any of its duties more than once.

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Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010

Well, you can disagree with my comment. I love EW but I was just saying that some of the aspects of the story were too heavy for some players which probably turned them off from the game. If a player knew someone who committed suicide in real life, then that might hit them hard seeing it in a game. BTW I do play the game to escape. Thats why I am going to enjoy DT, to escape.

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I sincerely believe that this type of audience is a problem. Because by assuming that video games should only ever be a form of pleasurable escapade, we're stifling the medium, which no longer has a future. It wouldn't occur to anyone to claim that literature should only deal with pleasurable themes (... Although; in view of certain polemics in the US, I'm beginning to doubt it), so why claim it for videogamess?

As for the rest, we all have our traumas. It's impossible to avoid them all, except by presenting a game that's all rainbows and kittens.

The Final Days felt like a big nothingburger by the end, and I really dislike how much they lean on nostalgia without delivering.

I've been catching up on patches in anticipation of Dawntrail, and stuff like Alzadaal was beyond disappointing. I was excited, thinking oh wow we're going to get the undersea ruins and they will make up for Deep Dungeon being the mobile phone equivalent of Nyzul Isle, and then it was just another shitty 4 man dungeon. And then going further, here's our obvious rip off of the Shadow Lord, but don't worry it's all just gonna be another 4 man dungeon. At least that one had an epic remix at the end. I did really enjoy that. Still have a few more quests to do, maybe the storyline will redeem itself

I'm just getting tired of this game's sad attempts to nod to the XI players with really uninspired 'content'. I'm bored with 4 man dungeons that have 3-4 trash pulls then 3 bosses with telegraphs so obvious I've yet to wipe to one of them unless I'm really not paying attention. I'm tired of getting that nudge - oh you remember this amazing content you played for years? Here, take this! And then it's more of the same uninspired dungeons and raids that are really just uninspired copies of what Wow and other mmos did.

I really hope Dawntrail improves the formula and gives us something... different.

That is, if I can ever manage to secure my copy. 5 days going now, still can't get through the storefront.

*sigh*.

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Originally Posted by Nighthawky2010

I enjoyed EW. I do at times think MSQ was too heavy for some players with the suicide scene, mother & baby dying, etc.
There are some aspects EW that could have been done better but overall I liked & enjoyed EW.

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It's actually kinda the opposite, it was so overdone it was actually cringeworthy and unrealistic, nor did it fit or show any real character development in the NPCs. ie... it felt really forced. The other problem was the storyline injected all kinds of things that don't gel with previous history or looked more like copouts on previous plot hooks. There were a lot of things. At times it felt like it retconned the whole basis of FF at that point.


To the OP: You have to understand there are a lot of people that have played this game since the beginning and remember the original plotline, and because this particular MMO was story based... it is judged heavily on it. Particularly because some of the previous expansions had such spectacular (and even realistic) storylines that drew people in. So the Devs are judged heavily on this, and compared to themselves. Which is a pretty high standard considering previous works.

I think you'll find OP, that most players really enjoyed EW overall. The longer after any expansion releases though, you'll find that a lot more people will speak out about the weaknesses of it. These forums, and certain subreddits in particular are even more critical of the game, because generally, that's where the more hardcore players are, and they're more likely to be critical of the game. (not that that's a bad thing, it is what it is).

For me, I think of the expansion as the big release, everything "post" expansion, I separate in my head, and I'll gladly admit, post-Endwalker has been weak imo, and to be fair, the post part of the expansion is the longest part of it timewise, so it makes sense that people focus on that a lot.

Still a fun game though :D

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Originally Posted by NeoORoark

One thing I will give only flak for is the Relic Weapons though. Yes, we've heard that a million times. What they did this expansion just wasn't right. Where as with Shadowbringers relics we were all going to new and old content alike, breathing life into parts of the game that might not have seen much action otherwise, Endwalker told us to just... Play. Sure I can do that, but isn't it better to give your players a journey to actually undergo? Being as simple as just playing the game makes it feel as if there's no reason to really do much during this break period. Content that doesn't see much action is laying there dusty on the shelf, and the new content they introduced is seeing less action than it could- I still haven't made it to the bottom of Eureka Orthos. Maybe I would have done that by now if I had more of an incentive to do it.

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I’m currently going back and getting an Anima weapon, and it strikes me just how similar it is to the current Manderville weapons, the only difference being having to grind for an insane amount of Poetics rather than Astronomy. And unlike the Manderville weapons, there’s a prescribed list of dungeons (many ARR) you have to go through during its stages. At least the Manderville weapons let you pick and choose from more roulettes and current content! To say nothing of all the bits of stuff you need to collect along the way. The one plus is that a few (very few!) can be bought from tribal vendors and GC seals.

I agree that the relics that had an exploratory zone were better… I love Eureka and Bozja, and I’ve ironically been grinding my Poetics in CLL because that ends up being the fastest way: 500 a run! But usually I see people saying we need to go back to Zodiac or Anima type grinds, and it puzzles me how they think that’s so much better than Manderville. I think the free choice of how you got the Astronomy tomes has made people forget that those relics were essentially the same kind of grind, with less choice involved. Maybe if they had given it a gimmick like Skyfire books or light farming to disguise it? lol

I’m looking forward to the next zone, especially if they tie it into the relic again. But I’m hoping they’ll simplify the grind for additional weapons. I don’t mind a grind for the first one, but I play multiple classes and don’t want to feel like I’m rerunning the same grind over again. SHB let you skip a few steps for subsequent weapons but not enough for my tastes.

Back to the main topic though, I loved EW, and I kinda consider it SHB Part 2. It was always meant to tie up the loose ends of a 10-year story arc, so I can see why some people weren’t as excited by it. Especially those who just skipped straight to the end… But for a lore geek like me, who plays for the story first and foremost, it was a satisfying conclusion. I fully expect to hear similar complaints about Dawntrail in the end, because it’s going to be setting up a new story.

Personally, I was dissapointed with EW's story, it didn't pluck my heartstrings, wrench my gut, or jerk my tears. ꉂ (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª

Things I personally didn't like about EW's main plot (in no particular order of importance):
-The focus of the story was more on secondary and side characters then on the WoL, like they did with SB versus the more WoL-focused ShB and HW (to a lesser-extent).
-The stakes of the story were so high that there was no way we would fail, leading to a loss of tension for me. Status Quo is god, Status Quo is life (at least for the devs and story writers).
-While I liked seeing the Ancients, how they handled them, especially with Hermes and Venat, felt so forced and stupid.
-With all the areas we got this expansion not being connected or even close to each other, it felt very jumpy.
-Saradie mentioned Necron from IX coming from nowhere and that's how I view Meteion/the End Singer. Necron at least has the benefit of being thematically relevant to IX's core messages about mortality, The End Singer only themetically works for EW's story, not the whole of XIV's story we experienced up to this point.
-While I can appreciate that they tried to tackle so darker themes, I felt they handle them shallowly (and at times juvenilely) with platitudes and inspiring handwaves.
-The impressions they gave during fanfests and other presentation of the story was that we were bringing the war to the Garlean's doorstep. We did not...
-I hated the Scion sacrificing scenes in Ultima Thule. It's become a running joke that the Scions do these kind of sacrifices and get away scotch free. Removes all tension and sentimentality from the scene for me.
-Zenos. I never cared for Zenos as a enemy, let alone our (the WoL's) personal enemy. Having said that, the only time I felt any form of tension during EW's story was Zenos's body swapping episode only for that to lead to nothing.

I could post more but I'll leave it at this for now. (≖‿≖)

I loved base story Endwalker, i thought it was a bit slow at the start, but I genuinely had a blast finishing it.

The patch story however just wasn't up to the usual quality, I however get it was basically made to help build sometime up for the new story arc beginning in Dawntrail, but yeah 6.0 story I enjoyed, 6.X patch story eh...

Bunch of one and done content and ''content''. Thankfully DT has field content back which was sorely missed.

Ive no complaints with the story itself though.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Personally, I was dissapointed with EW's story, it didn't pluck my heartstrings, wrench my gut, or jerk my tears. ꉂ (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª

Things I personally didn't like about EW's main plot (in no particular order of importance):
-The focus of the story was more on secondary and side characters then on the WoL, like they did with SB versus the more WoL-focused ShB and HW (to a lesser-extent).
-The stakes of the story were so high that there was no way we would fail, leading to a loss of tension for me. Status Quo is god, Status Quo is life (at least for the devs and story writers).
-While I liked seeing the Ancients, how they handled them, especially with Hermes and Venat, felt so forced and stupid.
-With all the areas we got this expansion not being connected or even close to each other, it felt very jumpy.
-Saradie mentioned Necron from IX coming from nowhere and that's how I view Meteion/the End Singer. Necron at least has the benefit of being thematically relevant to IX's core messages about mortality, The End Singer only themetically works for EW's story, not the whole of XIV's story we experienced up to this point.
-While I can appreciate that they tried to tackle so darker themes, I felt they handle them shallowly (and at times juvenilely) with platitudes and inspiring handwaves.
-The impressions they gave during fanfests and other presentation of the story was that we were bringing the war to the Garlean's doorstep. We did not...
-I hated the Scion sacrificing scenes in Ultima Thule. It's become a running joke that the Scions do these kind of sacrifices and get away scotch free. Removes all tension and sentimentality from the scene for me.
-Zenos. I never cared for Zenos as a enemy, let alone our (the WoL's) personal enemy. Having said that, the only time I felt any form of tension during EW's story was Zenos's body swapping episode only for that to lead to nothing.

I could post more but I'll leave it at this for now. (≖‿≖)

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Yep, I agree with a lot of this. Endwalker MSQ is a great example of style over substance.

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Originally Posted by NeoORoark

Maybe it's just the parts of the internet I'm on, but it feels like people really don't like this expansion, almost in it's entirety

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It's just the people you spend your time around. Endwalker is a very popular expansion with some amazing, magical scenes and experiences in the story, and fun dungeons and trials. Most people think that; it's just the veteran players that spend all their time in the game, repeated all the content to the point of boredom and then started to complain about it all.

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6.0 had some of the most heart-string plucking, gut-wrenching, and tear-jerking story, interactions, and overall plot that I've ever had the joy of playing through...

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It does. It helped a lot of people through depression by daring to confront it, when many other people would stay far away from that. I can't imagine other storytellers daring to confront it so deeply. It didn't really impact me like that because I'm not depressed, but it directly taps into a lot of the feelings people have when they're depressed and tries to help them find a way to be positive about life.

There were people who didn't like the "fake deaths", but they are definitely missing the point. The story was meant to make you feel depressed in a land of depression, and a way to snatch that from you is to take away characters you've grown attached to. The story was meant to make you feel hopeful as you progressed through Ultima Thule, so they introduced the possibility they might return. Then at the end they did so that hope was restored. Just leaving them dead would have ended the story on a very depressing note when that wasn't the goal of the story. The goal was to overcome said depression.

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Though the patch content leaves much to be desired.

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I've enjoyed it but I agree it has sort of been like the sidequest trial stories. I don't think most expansions' patch quests are really much deeper though, at least until the .3, .4 and .5 patches.

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I think doing what ARR did and setting up another story that we might not see the full pay off for until much later is a step backwards.

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• ARR foreshadowed Stormblood with Little Ala Mhigo, Doman Refugees arriving, battles with Ilberd and discussions about Omega.
• Heavensward patches foreshadowed Shadowbringers with describing the shard split, the sundering, the Warriors of Darkness and Minfilia traveling to The First. (You could argue it foreshadowed Zodiark being bound to the moon in Endwalker as well).
• Stormblood patches foreshadowed going to Garlemald... although, at the time, the plan did not seem it would be destroyed when we went there. But that's how it turned out. It also foreshadowed Zenos' return.

Things are typically foreshadowed in the patches leading up to the prior expansion, rather than the patches leading up to the expansion itself. They are just doing what they always do.

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One thing I will give only flak for is the Relic Weapons though.

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Yes, relics need to be earned. If you want a quick weapon, get a crafted weapon from the market board or farm an extreme if you are into High-End duties.

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Me and my friends are all excited for the new story, and the new classes in Dawntrail, knowing full well that we're not doing much other than having fun in the Turalian sun

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It is not going to be a holiday. That's what they want to make casual players think, but if you even slightly glance at the media outside of the trailer or the theme of the pre-order rewards, it will become clear there is far more to Dawntrail than that.

EW really didn’t feel like it had time to breathe but also spent too long trying to force in moments of levity that while needed ended up being too long and distracted from the main story (loporits im looking at you)

The final resolution with garlemald was rushed, garlemald has been the driving antagonistic force behind the game since even pre meteor project legacy, sure the ascians were ultimately responsible but they didn’t really come into the light with a defined plan until about the post SB MSQ, whereas garlemald has been there since day 0

The final days we had both caught a glimpse of in amurot and they also felt like a poor copy of the light soaked first when we first visit it in kholusia and arm areng, they also didn’t feel like they had any “oomph behind them considering they were limited to so geographically limited area

The actual final antagonist being Meteion I actually didn’t mind, the ancients destroying their own world and the entire universe in their own hubris over their perceived perfection is a perfect end state of their society and that also enhanced characters like emet selch who despite all of this was still utterly convinced of the superiority of the ancients. However the time travel plotline “pigeonholing the unsundered and venat was horrid because it basically removed the agency of everyone except Hermes who by rights isn’t really a villain, just a conduit of the flawed worldview of the ancients

The content for the expansion was horrid however. The 6.1-6.5 story is basically just a re-organised trial questline and the sloppy inclusion of the first is hilariously bad, the actual battle content ranges from bad to boring

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

moments of levity that while needed ended up being too long and distracted from the main story

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I mean they do but Final Fantasy and FFXIV in particular always does this. Typically an FF game will take you through a village where you meet a new race. If you don't like that race then the entire thing is tedious and boring.

FFXIV in particular has always done that sort of thing, such as sending us to find out about Little Ala Mhigo and beast tribes that sent you running around the Sylph area. Heavensward sent us to learn all about the moogles and do all their quests. Stormblood had us messing around with the tribes in the Azim Steppe and the Namazu. Shadowbringers had us messing around with the dwarfs and the not-Sahagin.

If you don't like these races then they are going to be tedious and boring. But it is just what FFXIV always does and probably will do again. I entirely expected it to happen the moment they said "you will encounter The Lopporits in Endwalker".

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The final resolution with garlemald was rushed, garlemald has been the driving antagonistic force behind the game since even pre meteor project legacy, sure the ascians were ultimately responsible but they didn’t really come into the light with a defined plan until about the post SB MSQ, whereas garlemald has been there since day 0

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Although I was once excited for a Garlean expansion, there are a few truths to consider.

Shadowbringers destroyed my excitement for a Garlean expansion by sweeping me into a different world and revealing that Garlemald was created by Ascians. In that moment they reduced them to a mere puppet.

We already had a Garlean expansion, in a way, by fighting the Garleans in Othard and again in Gyr Abania.

We fought the Garleans in Bozja and it would be very difficult to top Bozja in terms of feeling like we're fighting a war. Main Story quests don't quite replicate the feeling of navigating the Bozjan Southern Front and participating in Skirmishes and Critical Engagements.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

I sincerely believe that this type of audience is a problem. Because by assuming that video games should only ever be a form of pleasurable escapade, we're stifling the medium, which no longer has a future. It wouldn't occur to anyone to claim that literature should only deal with pleasurable themes (... Although; in view of certain polemics in the US, I'm beginning to doubt it), so why claim it for videogamess?

As for the rest, we all have our traumas. It's impossible to avoid them all, except by presenting a game that's all rainbows and kittens.

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Whether or not it's a problem is subjective. I personally think there's absolutely room for an audience like that, you're not alone. I hope you do get a game that caters to your tastes, and if a game developer wants to go that route, they should feel the freedom to do so. But this particular game is not going in that direction, and I personally hope it never does. FFXIV has always had the underlying theme of hope overcoming despair. It's not going to be everyone's jam, but it clearly resonates with a lot of people, and I don't think they're a 'problem' for wanting a game like that. Is there room in the industry for dark, gritty, no-hand-holding stories? Sure there is; the fact that you are saying this and others are agreeing with you is proof. But there's always going to be a large audience who want escapist fantasy, and games that cater to that audience. I think there's room for both genres to co-exist.

Of all of XIV's expansions, Endwalker stands out as the most shallow, style over substance, calculatingly manufactured, often contradictory, and full of cheap forced attempts at 'feels' piece of shit this game ever had in 10 years.
People who cried at any point during Endwalker cutscenes probably shed a tear from watching Avengers.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

People who cried at any point during Endwalker cutscenes probably shed a tear from watching Avengers.

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I cried during Endgame, I cried during Life is Beautiful, and I cried during homeward bound.

https://media.tenor.com/Wf3Orqn3t_AA...orry-sorry.gif

It's OKAY to get involved in a story and cry even if debbie downers don't like it.

I've been playing FFXIV since HW and I'm pretty baffled by these weird outspoken issues to Endwalker. This MMO has never been in better shape, the main MSQ story in 6.0 was a masterclass in storytelling. Not a single dungeon missed (and was the first expansion to do this)... There is a TON to do in this game... I personally loved the Alliance raid, which was beautiful.

Haven't run out of engaging stuff to do in EW. I don't see any issues.

Personally, I think Dawntrail has a MASSIVE job cut out for it to get near the level of these last two expansion... I have no idea how they will pull it off. I just hope they can come somewhat close.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...walker/page930
Granted half of the thread is probably just people arguing in circles but that's still over 400 pages of grievances with Endwalker's story.
If you look at it with a more critical eye and not just through the "It made me feel things"-lens then there are absolutely issues with the 6.0 MSQ.

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As someone who has a degree in literature and is working toward a masters, even the worst student in our class could have torn this msq apart. I would love to give it to ppl who actually study lit for a living and see how they would rip it apart. As a lifelong FF fan and someone who has been playing this game since 1.0 because I adore it, I felt EW was almost embarrassing to the series. I swear ppl are just wearing fan googles or just haven't encountered more than basic story telling cause this was bargin bin manga at best.

Endwalker's issue is that it's not really a 10 year conclusion to anything. It is the immediate sequel to Shadowbringers, and it forsakes much of ARR 2.0 to 4.55 in order to be that sequel.

That's why in the majority of its side quests we get complete retellings of old ARR 2.0 side quests. To try and tie it to the old lore, they did not actually rely on the MSQ. A blurb about Coils there, and a coming together of previous characters here, and everyone got the WoL and co. the rocket fuel they need does not a 10 year arc conclusion make.

I don't think people are necessarily too harsh on it, honestly.

I enjoyed it, but it wasn't as good as it should have been, and I enjoyed it primarily because I tend to consume stories without really thinking too deeply on them, and only really looking at them on a surface level, but even without really going deep on it, the glaring problems I has was that when it tried to create some sense of danger -- Then there was always something that would detract from it, be it with some levity in the story, or be it with the whole Elpis segment. -- I think there were better ways of doing the latter half of the base story without taking us there.

Even then some of the other issues I had on a surface level with it, IMO were more narrowed down to the build-up that ShB created... We wasted far, far too much story telling, both in the post-story for ShB, and in the start of EW just on the towers.

It was stinky poo poo.

No, seriously, I honestly didn't like it. The main 6.0 story wasn't super good, and the patch content was worse. Your mileage may very, but I'm not gonna tell you what to like.

I'm hoping Dawntrail isn't as bad.

Like many others have said, I enjoyed doing things in the expansion. Savage was great, Island sanctuaries, even if it's spread sheet sim, was relaxing afterlong days in prog or work, or both on the same day for me. I LOVED Tataru's story stuff and I'm happy they used the Mech Suit more. However,


Metieon(?) is a shoehorned in character and it made the ending feel flaccid a bit, Garlemald and Elpis deserved their own expansions, and the raid tiers story, as with all of them bar coils, need more fleshing out, period. Zero is bland, flat, and I only started to care for her at the literal end of this mini arc after the main EW narrative. I hate how Azdaja was just there on the sidelines after as well, I wish Midgadsormr, Unukalhai, and Cylia(?) had more screentime in the void narrative. Variant and Critireon dungeons were DoA(Dead On Arrival) we had zero reason to go back in after the first time as the rewards were lack luster.

The Oversimplification and Homogenization of jobs really leaves a bad taste in my mouth and their approach to content has made it all to easy to plan out, We have no Midcore, The alliance raids were offensively braindead, even my more casual friends were confused by how slow Thalia was.

And then the elephant in the room, Relics, you touched upon it and we all have so much, but the extreme heavy handedness of this relic change was just sad. We also have a lot of COntent Islands, as in a lot of content doesn't really interact with other forms of content, so it's all stand alone and it's done when it;s done, when it could all tie into and lead into one another more seamlessly and create a much more fufilling interacting within the game when we're playing. Instead it's all disjointed and boring after the first few times if it's not your bag.

So yeah it's all subjective to a certain extent, but theres the sad fact that a lot of this expansion felt purposely uninvoled and a tad bit lazy on the devs part. EW for me was a very mid and boring epxansion, when in comparison to ShB SB and HW. And given what I've seen them do over the years, I know they can do better.

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Originally Posted by rawker

It's the oversimplification and Homogenization that is problematic.

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Literally only the forums care about this and this is the smallest percentage of the players. Go away dude

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Originally Posted by Battler-Ushiromiya

Literally only the forums care about this and this is the smallest percentage of the players. Go away dude

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You go first.

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Originally Posted by Battler-Ushiromiya

Literally only the forums care about this and this is the smallest percentage of the players. Go away dude

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I’ve yet to see a single piece of the community that isn’t somewhere between “getting sick of it and it’s noticeably bad on the healers” and “this is genuinely ruining the game at this point”

Facebook and non mod twitter lean towards the former, the forums reddit and discord lean towards the latter but nobody seems to be happy at this point, especially on the support roles

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I'm pretty sure that when people complain about the story, they are almost always referring to the patch content. Don't think anyone has much issue with the main expansion story, except for some nitpicking about time travel and what have you.

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My problem with EW was the pacing for an end of world scenario, it was bloody slow and littered with trash quests in between and throws the pacing off really bad. That was one of my issues with EW along with the homogenization and oversimplifying everything.