https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...ality=lossless
this is yoshiPs current comments on a skip from ARR to Void ark in endwalker
i want to voice many concerns i have regarding this
i am concerned about this idea to skip all the expansions too. there are a couple of reasons why im against this.
1 and this is my weakest point. when i buy an expansion, Shb/Ew. im expected to finish that msq to unlock the endgame. i invest hours into that game that while Im ok with it. i am sadly having to do as part of what i paid for. to see somebody come into this game, whod essentially get 3 expansions for free is kinda a kick in the teeth to those who had to pay for it and grind through it.
2. and this is my strongest point. its not about msq, its about the things u learn through the msq. u learn ur job, and basic mecanics. jumping right into 6.1 is going to birth an insane amount of "skippers" who know literally nothing about the game, its core mecanics and thats going to be reflected in your roulettes. tanks who are sprouts but on the same level dng as you with nowhere near the experience you do. Healers completly overwhelmed by the sheer number of buttons. the current experience, is just the skipping of cutscenes. not entire dungeons, trials. and core gameplay experiences like Grand company ect. a player skipping the expansions is going to also find the amount of "backwards" content daunting. and ultimatley, since through your basic grind your going to win up, still needing to 1-90 whm. youre still going to have to do all this... so its completly pointless and a literal detrement to your ability to grasp the insane number of systems and mecanics in this game. the only way they could save this idea is by still forcing you to do every dungeon and trial. except that you get exp from msq.. if they impliment a new character that can instantly skip to level 90 class. im sorry thats just insulting to those who had to work for it
3. starting from 6.1 is an even worse idea than ARR. the story in 6.1 is GARBAGE and also doesnt make sense to anybody who didnt play half of heavensward and ARR (tlaking about void lore) starting players here, will only increase the number of people leaving the game, or giving up any hope of the msq being worth watchin... which only further trivializes the entire point of FFXIV. I get this game is emulating wow more and more. but this is the ONE place you SHOULDNT copy wow. as this is the one place with the most criticism.. that the story is disjointed and skippable...there are so many voices screaming this game keeps shaving content down. and removing all this content will further send messages that give the wrong idea. wanting to buy a game and just not engaging with 80% of it.. whats the point
I am extremely concerned about this
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03-15-2024, 11:15 AMsindriiisgamingI am extremely concerned about this
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03-15-2024, 11:55 AMEspon
You're like one of those people that goes out of their way to be unhappy about something.
1. I fail to see the issue with this since you can already buy skips on the store. Just because someone can skip previous expansions doesn't trivialize the fun I had in the past.
2. Honestly they need to release an updated Hall of the Novice that teaches you what the various symbols that frequently show up in encounters mean as well as a quick play guide for a high level job. This is one of my gripes with the release of new jobs as you're given 20+ abilities and need to figure out what they all do and how it all fits together before being thrown into a solo duty.
3. It's an option, unlike WoW. If someone wants to play FF14 for the story they're not going to use the skip to jump to patch 6.1. WoW's story already stopped making sense when they wiped out all the vanilla content with Cataclysm, resulting in new players doing quests dealing with the aftermath of the fall of The Burning Legion and The Lich King, and then leveling through two expansions where suddenly those enemies are alive and well. FF14 keeps all its old story available (aside from trimming some of ARR). -
03-15-2024, 12:20 PMBoblawblahYou wanted more challenge/stress, well there you go :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming
https://media.tenor.com/Q7ZTA9KbxSUA...ys-paw-paw.gif -
03-15-2024, 12:27 PMIscahIt's not even an option, it's the floated concept of an option from a dredged-up interview from months ago, as the future-tense description of the Unending Codex should make clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espon
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03-15-2024, 12:34 PMFyrebrand
"Welcome to our awesome story-driven RPG, where we put in lots of extra work to allow players to do dungeons solo so they can enjoy them at their own pace. Also, don't do that. Skip the entire story. Don't play it, it's bad."
For sake of argument, though, here's an idea: how about instead of the usual black-and-white "skip everything" or "skip nothing" options, why not just a "skip ARR" option? Most people seem to think that's the biggest sticking point, and I can somewhat see why. I still feel like new players would be missing out on a lot without ARR under their belts, but at least vanilla ARR is fairly light in terms of really meaningful "story." For a lot of it, you're just doing random fetch quests, killing primals, then storming the empire's base. Maybe they could make an optional "ARR Lite" tutorial experience where you get the gist of the story explained through cutscenes, but interspersed with single-player gameplay "highlight moments" where you learn your job and play some combat, get told about various game features, get your chocobo, etc. The game proper would start of at Heavensward... or, maybe a couple quests before that so you can see THAT scene from the end of ARR. -
03-15-2024, 01:06 PMDrForester
Admittedly a much smaller scale, but they made it work with all the players who didn't complete 1.0.
I think it could work. The Hydaelyn/Zodiark story is pretty much done with (I'm sure the 4 outstanding Convocation members will show up at some point). They can start a new story with 7.0 and just adjust dialog like they did with the 1.0 WOL for all the people who aren't the 1.0 WOL.
I do question 6.1 as a starting point though. I did enjoy 6.x's story, but even though it's not something major to the story, I feel like Zero's backstory as Zeno's familiar will be tough to explain.
In the end, there will be many, many people urging players to complete the MSQ from the start. At the same time, every expansion makes it a bit tougher sell to say "Hey, try out this game. There's a few hundred hours of MSQ to get caught up with!" -
03-15-2024, 01:13 PMMosha
The practical reality is that the MSQ up to 7.0 is loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
6.1 is an odd starting point tho, though I feel 6.5 would be the better option.
But I haven't played 6.5 yet (Too busy fighting for manged democracy) -
03-15-2024, 01:14 PMSupersnow845
1.0’s story was a bit different because nobody remembered that you were the original WOL (except Minfillia and Cid in the legacy cutscenes) everyone remembers you after prae but by that point even ARR WOL’s are famous so them suddenly dropping the original WOL plot works fine
The H+Z story has shifted the entire 7 remaining worlds in a massive way, if they altered dialogue based on if you skipped or not they would be writing functionally two seperate games -
03-15-2024, 01:21 PMSwordsman
I'm still for a story skip because all that MSQ is just too much. Just have SE implement some kind of tutorial and I think it'll be fine.
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03-15-2024, 01:33 PMDrForesterThe remaining shards won't know who we are. Based on what we saw on The First, the Final Days didn't impacts the shards. Ryne could sense something was up, and had a vision, but that's it. We don't really need to be introduced as the Savior of the Star every time we meet someone. With Dawntrail being a new adventure, I don't think it will be too hard to let our future fame rest on what we do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
Really the only people who will REALLY care about what we've done are the 4 remaining ascians, and who knows if they will be antagonistic or not (if they're not tempered following Zodiark's demise, who knows what their reaction will be). -
03-15-2024, 01:36 PMAsari5
there are a lot of player thoug who were like 'doing quests? i hate that, i would rather skip'
and after doing the story for a bit they start enjoying it. its not because arr is slow but because people arent used to it.
of course there are always the people who cant get used to it, but those other people will miss out on it
and yes there already are too many people who dont use aoe and mitigation in higher lvl dungeons. people who need 100 dungeons to get used to pulling two groups at once and more ... do we really need more of these players? -
03-15-2024, 02:09 PMcaffe_macchiato
Curious. Haven't people been going on ad nauseum about how the story is the best part of FFXIV and the main reason to play this game? Yet as soon as Yoshi-P starts endorsing a free skip, people defend him and call those who back the story trolls? Something's not right here. Is he the Second Coming? Why play this game at all if the story is skippable?
They should abridge the story to be 50 hours prior to 7.0 like any other RPG. But as I'm not Yoshi-P, I'm sure that idea would be criticized for not coming from His Highness. As well as all of you who "cry" during every cutscene of this game. Alternately, Square Enix can do like it did fifteen other times and make a sequel, but that would essentially be a story skip too.
Lastly, it's nice seeing how it took no time at all for WoW to be brought up because this skip feature is associated with WoW. You know that FFXIV is a WoW clone, right? -
03-15-2024, 02:34 PMCaptainLagbeard
With Endwalker the whole big story arc that's been ongoing since at least 2.0, probably even from 1.x days, was finally finished and with Dawntrail we're supposed to be starting onto a new major story arc. I don't see why they couldn't look into making it as an optional new onboarding point new players.
The problem really is the hundreds of hours of cutscenes and thousands of quests containing important lore that might just leave a new player confused if they know nothing about it. Anyone who hasn't gone through the MSQ probably would have very limited idea of who any of the Scions are and why they circle around the WoL. -
03-15-2024, 03:48 PMSaraide
Yea roulettes and DT dungeons would be a nightmare but I think the main problem there is between keyboard and chair. The game isnt rocket surgery, if someone wants to learn from scratch they can easily do so. There will still be tons of rotational errors but the fundamentals are very easy to grasp.
I find the concerns about other people skipping story and then not knowing what happens very weak. It's their decisions to skip. Not knowing what happens in the story because of skipping is the obvious consequence. You dont need to be a long time ff14 player to know this. Even if they do end up regretting the skip that's their problem to deal with. Shouldnt have skipped then. -
03-15-2024, 03:52 PMJojoya
1. Nothing in what he said indicated anyone would be getting 3 expansions for free. They're still going to have to purchase the base game plus Dawntrail.
True they wouldn't have to pay for the story skip but suspect I SE would follow Blizzard's lead and restrict it to one character per expansion purchase.
If SE chooses to implement the new starting point for MSQ, no one is going to be jumping straight into end game anymore than they already are with a story skip. It wouldn't be implemented until Dawntrail and at that point endgame becomes the new raid and trials from 7.0, not 6.1. Those players are going to have to do not just the 7.0 MSQ but the 6.1 to 6.5 MSQ as well.
2. That problem already exists and quite honestly, I don't think there's any way to prevent it short of having some sort of "Proving Grounds" type content.
It's also not insulting to the rest of us. The only ones that will feel insulted are those looking for reasons to feel victimized. The MMORPG industry is way past the point of no return when it comes to level skips. Even WoW's system for training players who are purchasing level skips is near useless. It comes down to the same thing that we're discussed in other topics about player skill - you will never be able to force someone to put in extra effort or learn if they are not interested in doing so.
3. Okay, no problem. SE can change the starting point from 6.1 to 6.55. Problem solved.
No one needs to play through Heavensward to follow what happens in the 6.1-6.5 MSQ anymore than we need to have played through 1.0-1.13 to understand what happens in 2.0. They miss out on the fine detail behind some of the things mentioned but it doesn't make the story gibberish.
As YoshiP says, there can be some sort of message strongly suggesting that the player start with ARR instead of taking advantage of the level skip. In the end, it's up to the player. Many players have zero interest in story, coming from other games with some pretty bad story telling, just to discover they want to know what's going on in this one. Let them discover for themselves if they want to know the story or not. We've got plenty of players with no interest in it as it is, why only penalize the new player? -
03-15-2024, 05:17 PMIscahNothing Yoshida has said on the matter suggests that a jump to 6.1 (if implemented) would involve an ARR-style alternate narrative if you didn't play the preceding storyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrForester
Additionally, unless starting in such a way would also lock people out of accessing NG+, it would cause a narrative mess if someone started to go back and play those quests if they're not supposed to be part of their character's backstory.
It's not at all the same situation as 1.0 where everyone is equally and permanently barred off from ever accessing it again, and with a relatively small amount of story lost.
I expect and hope that any potential "story skip" is exactly that – a skip and not an erasure of the past games' storylines, no different functionally from the story skips sold in the online store. -
03-15-2024, 06:05 PMJeeqbitNot a good point, because this happens all the time. I had to "grind through extreme trials" to get the mount just for people to unsync it effortlessly years later or get it via mogtomes. I had to fight through challenging savage mechanics just for people to solo them years later. I had to spend weeks doing beast tribe quests just for people to get a few mogtomes for the mount. It is what it is. That's how the game has been for the last 10 years so it's nothing new really.Quote:
is kinda a kick in the teeth to those who had to pay for it and grind through it.
Although that is true, they can (and probably will) cross that road when they come to it, such as making a 6.1 version of Hall of the Novice that teaches all the basic mechanics seen up to 6.1. It could be in the form of a Sharlayan lecture in a classroom, or a practical test in the rocky mountains of Thavnair by the striking dummies.Quote:
2. and this is my strongest point. its not about msq, its about the things u learn through the msq. u learn ur job, and basic mecanics. jumping right into 6.1 is going to birth an insane amount of "skippers" who know literally nothing about the game, its core mecanics and thats going to be reflected in your roulettes.
I think it's a good point but they will most likely notice it being a major problem, if they don't account for it initially.
Honestly though, some people already skip; some people pickup GNB and enter a level 60 dungeon not knowing the first thing about tanking; people already get overwhelmed by the amount of buttons when unlocking higher levels jobs like Sage or Reaper, and I've had plenty of people say how overwhelmed they are even at low levels because although most of the low-level abilities are barely used (like role actions), to a sprout they still look overwhelming/confusing on some jobs.Quote:
tanks who are sprouts but on the same level dng as you with nowhere near the experience you do. Healers completly overwhelmed by the sheer number of buttons.
Although it's true they may not know what a Grand Company is due to this, there are likely many people that don't rank it up at all anyway until they have to for hunts or other reasons.Quote:
core gameplay experiences like Grand company ect.
They already do because many just do the MSQ and skip the normal raid and side trial stories.Quote:
a player skipping the expansions is going to also find the amount of "backwards" content daunting.
True. They would need some sort of introduction to the void first, such as being required to do Amdapor Keep.Quote:
3. starting from 6.1 is an even worse idea than ARR. the story in 6.1 is GARBAGE and also doesnt make sense to anybody who didnt play half of heavensward and ARR (tlaking about void lore)
They would have the option to start from the beginning. Plus, New Game+ exists to still go through the story from the beginning without preventing their access to end game content.Quote:
removing all this content will further send messages that give the wrong idea. wanting to buy a game and just not engaging with 80% of it.. whats the point
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03-15-2024, 07:04 PMKaurhz
The reality is - For as good as the MSQ is lauded to be -- and as core to the game as people believe it is -- Ultimately the length of the MSQ is bordering far too close to unmanageable.
People could very well view it as the best story in all of existence if they want to - But none of that matters, literally none of it matters if many players quit before they actually get to the stages where the MSQ is actually good, or if they quit because they essentially need to burn through 400 hours of story, before they are able to do the stuff they want to do.
I think the only thing I would change, and granted I know they won't -- But create different points in the game where players can decide to skip to, rather than the only choice essentially being 6.1 or 6.55 or whatever. -
03-15-2024, 07:08 PMsindriiisgamingYou can story skip on the store yes. And even buy a road to 80 book. But it's paid for to deter you from doing so. Also players who skip jobs like whm stick out like a sore thumb. God just the other day I had 1 in the last stb dungeon and they had no idea about regen/cure3 or medica 2. You could also tell because they were in full tome gear and accessories. We shouldn't keep encouraging this as it will have a detrimental effect on player skill level ... and honestly. After having done my 2k grind.. its already shockingly badQuote:
Originally Posted by Espon
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03-15-2024, 07:12 PMsindriiisgamingRight now ppl can skip cutscenes, but not dungeons. So they still learn the basics of everything. They can go from low level 15 healer/tank to 80 healer through the game and still grasp the core gameplay mecanics. Which continue to intensify as the level bumps up. A full skip of 90 levels would be completely overwhelming to most new players. If u want to sell an expansion to new ppl make the new jobs start at level 1. Most ppl are already overwhelmed by there level 70/80 kitsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
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03-15-2024, 11:33 PMEastwall
Honestly.... When check queue, if everyone in party bought the related expansion, Just check if party leader unlocked it storywise...
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03-15-2024, 11:42 PMTaliriah
Lmao, "extreme concern" about complete non issues mixed with a dash of gatekeeping and sprinkled with unwarranted elitism.
Never change, mmo players. -
03-15-2024, 11:45 PMKinazu
I honestly think that giving a skip to be pretty up-to-date with the current playerbase is a good thing. I think its long overdue. I have a few friends and colleagues wanting to play, but knowing that they have to go through hundreds and hundreds of hours of story is turning them off by a landslide. I do find 6.1 to be an odd place to start, I think starting on 6.55 Pt. 2 with a unique introduction quest beforehand that quickly explains what has been going on and who the new characters are, and a solo-duty that shows you a quick rundown of how the game's mechanics work (dungeon markers, etc.) would be a good start.
Though if they do actually let people start at 6.1 that is going to be a rude awakening to many if they don't have previous MMO experience. Some of the trials can be a bit... hectic for someone who just booted up the game, that much I will agree on.
But yeah, I'm all for it, even if it'll mean a couple of extra wipes in the 6.1-6.5 content range. -
03-16-2024, 12:07 AMKaurhzIf I am understanding your post right... - People can still skip cutscenes, and even if you imposed this on them, you're still putting them through 100-ish hours of pure slog, not to mention this is really a non-solution - The problem still exists wherein the story still accounts for 100-400 hours of work before they are at a relevant point in the game where they can play regular content with other players - Many of their friends whom may already be veterans of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming
I'm sorry but putting players through 400 hours of story is far worse than the problem of dungeons being slightly elongated. My mentality with this problem is that if a player actually wants to learn their class, and wants to learn the game, then they are going to do so regardless of whether they elected to effectively skip to 90 or not. - Just in the same vein you can have many players that go through the entire course of the game with having little or no enthusiasm for learning the class. You can have people go through the entirety of Level 1 - Level 90, and not know a single thing about their class, or about the core gameplay elements of an MMO for that matter. -- It's entirely a decision on the part of the player as to what they do with that experience, and no amount of micromanaging a players experience is going to change that fact. -
03-16-2024, 12:22 AMBun_VivantAs I have six characters at End-of-Content and two currently doing Shadowbringers, I like story skip because Stormblood wasn't to my taste the first few times I played it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordsman
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03-16-2024, 01:07 AMAvoidy
Honestly I'm all for it. This story is "okay" and has some bursts of really good moments, but it's weighed down hard by the padded mmo pacing. There are so many great parts that happen and then get followed up with like 4 hours of picking up trash off the ground. Or awfully animated cutscenes where players /handover air to another character. Or the endless recycled fist-clenching in endwalker like a kid who just learned how to use semicolons so now he uses them all over the place; like he can't stop using them; he loves using them because it's still new to him; he's so proud of what he just learned how to do; naturally he has to show everyone. Like, they could've told EW's story in a fraction of the hours if they cut out all the running back and forth stuff, but then they wouldn't have been able to brag about "40 hours of content." They would've had a well paced story but it would've been significantly shorter. So we get "low points" that people will actually defend saying that stories can't be climaxing all the time, and that's true, but several hours of fetch quests and running from npc to npc (when that running could've been a cutscene, for example) is not even enjoyable to play. It's just a slog. Post-ARR loses so many people that it's memed as a filter. It's so hard to get friends into this game because they realize there're 80 fetch quests standing between them and the next expansion, and the payoff for that slog is an emotionally charged finale that leads right into more running back and forth and more fetching items off the ground... only this time, in Ishgard! If people want to skip this whole thing and jump straight to the end to play current content with their friends, I wouldn't blame them at all. I would warn them though, that this game's on such a drip-feed of content pacing that they're rushing to an end where there's nothing to do except stand around and ERP.
The funny thing is, by selling MSQ skips in the cash shop, this is what the devs have been implicitly saying all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
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03-16-2024, 02:14 PMJojoyaCan do is not will do. They can go through dungeons auto-attacking if they wanted. Most parties aren't going to notice, those that do won't always kick, and if the player does get kicked they can always requeue.Quote:
Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming
At the same time, someone can skip all the dungeons then research and practice their rotations on a striking dummy before picking up the MSQ.
Again, those who want to learn to play the game competently (or better) will do so. Those who don't want to put in the effort won't. -
03-18-2024, 02:34 PMDiaDeem
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03-18-2024, 04:06 PMRithy255
I feel like ARR is the biggest gatekeep to new players actually having fun.
I think the thing is that, this is because ARR is a terrible experience, The story for one is very boring, but the gameplay leaves a lot to be desired, now obviously a new player shouldn't get everything at once. But the fact is most Jobs at 50 play nothing like 90 jobs, which is odd just feels terrible for one. Personally I feel as if they should invest more into making ARR and early content up to date, both for job design and time it takes, I'd argue that it could do with even more trimming and just making the fetch quests less annoying in general.
Would I be upset about a story skip? No I wouldn't I do like making alts but i don't really wanna go through ARR or pay a lot of money just to skip it quite frankly. I also don't think the story is important to everyone, you certainly might be confused if you skip content (I seemed to follow HW+ Quite well despite skipping 80% of ARR on my first playthrough), but I think it's such a hard ask at this point for people to just go through the entire story just to get to current content.
Thing is skips already exist, the only difference is you have to pay currently for a Skip, I think getting rid of that paywall is important. -
03-18-2024, 10:00 PMKes13a
all I am getting from the OP is "I sat through the entire MSQ and they dont have to...WHY NOT?"
really, if someone buys the game and is a new player, as much as incompetence is a valid argument, how they play, is up to them. its their money, if they want to skip, then why not? if they have zero interest in the story, why not?
if I tell the OP that they should do single pulls as a tank because it increases understanding and enjoyment, I would get yelled at (rightfully so) that its their money they can play how they want.
as long as SE sticks with skips I am fine with it... if they go the Destiny 2 route and vault huge amounts of content, thats where the game is no longer worth my money. it is, as always, up to the player to decide if the skip is worth it. it is not our call to be "very concerned" about it because that sounds more like a "we didnt do that why do they get to" whine. -
03-18-2024, 11:26 PMNYCLouisGamerThat's a fair point! Something else that isn't being mentioned: all expansion storylines are not created equal, and that is subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
Everybody has a storyline they love, a storyline they hate and ones that are in the middle. For some people, their favorite storyline might be ARR and then they don't enjoy it again until Shadowbringers. My point is that there is no safe way to skip expansion storylines when they are all connected. The only exception would be people that don't care about the story.
How about this idea? If somebody is not interested in the story, they can start in the current patch (and still have to pay for the prior expansions). Except that they would also be required to do short training dungeons with Duty Support. One every 5 levels until they reach level 80. Each job would have its own unique set of training dungeons. If they fail the mechanics, they have to try again.
Frankly, I wish we had that option for everybody! -
03-18-2024, 11:28 PMBokoToloko
In all honesty, Dawntrail could've easily been set up as a "reset" in MSQ, where the WoL started completely anew, without having to carry any characters from the previous arc for anything other than for cameos (*coughs* Scions *coughs*) and, in turn, allow new players to catch the rest's pace without a hitch.
As it stands now, though, they can no longer go for that route so, realistically, their only choice would be to allow trial version to access every expansion other than current's, in order to make it easier to get into the game and not having to deal with payments until you reach current content. Not many people will pay a sub if they're not even going to catch up in a couple months. -
03-19-2024, 02:41 AMNebelheim
Not everyone is into story in games some people prefer the raiding just like not everyone is into raiding. The good thing about ff14 is that it has multiple aspects to enjoy. People need to stop gatekeeping and trying to force people to enjoy story just because they enjoy it and stop looking down on others for buying skips. I love the story and play as much aspects of the game that I enjoy but could care less if someone skips the story as long as they at least learn enough of the basics to get by. The whole attitude of "I played through the story and enjoyed it so you have to" needs to stop.
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03-19-2024, 03:17 AMReynTime
Again there would be a simple and less lazy solution:
Offer 2 MSQ routes for new characters. One which is a lot shorter but helps them reach the requirements for Dawntrail organically. Retroactively they could offer a way for the player to experience ARR->Endwalker through New Game+ or something similar.
But they made two stupid decisions that makes that impractical. What are they, you ask? Well, forcing baggage from past important MSQ events in form of the many Scions that had their arcs done and are only sticking around because they're afraid of coming up with new characters for the new saga.
Now it's just important that every player invested in the story goes through the past 10 years worth in order to feel the level of emotional attachment and care for what the existing companion characters should be in the current context.
And second, having the main character keep the blessing from Hydaelin even after her story was over. They come up with asspulls all the time, like Dynamis. The lack of blessing wouldn't prevent the MSQ from making us do impossible feats. Keeping it just continues to chain enjoyment of future MSQ based on personal experience with 2.0~6.0.
Whatever option they come up with for the skip, I'm 110% confident it will not provide any organic character or MSQ progression. And they put themselves in this position. -
03-20-2024, 07:47 PMVarilyonI completely agree with your position. Now only 8.0 or 7.4 seems like a good start for a skip.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReynTime
A skip is necessary and should be an option in the beginning (furthermore with replaying 2.x-6.x). Like a higher class you can choose, which starts with a new expansion. Next to that we need an updated hall of novice and/or newer (Insert name of that smaller dungeons, which only existed up to level 50). They should be part of that new route and involve couple low level duties, so the beginner starts with just couple moves.