Skill-up's

Initially the job/class xp was the "skill" because you had physical level. Now physical level is gone and your job/class is your level, but there's no skill level. I really want to see them bring it back. It prevents/deters powerleveling because who wants a 50whm with a healing skill of 30? Or a level 50 warrior that has no skill in ax. Then weapon skills would be related to skill level, not physical level, and abilities could be left to physical level. I realize that what we have now is hacked together due to massive changes in design, but I really hope this is addressed when things get revamped. Anyone else feel this way or am i alone?

It was nice because it detered from power leveling being the main form of level for people who were serious about playing. While you'll no doubt get people who did it wrong say "I don't want it because of skill up parties!" this game already felt like FFII's successor, may as well bring it back in some form.

In 2.0 hopefully they do something in a similar fashion, but they're seemingly making XIV a standard MMO you can download from places like Gpotato or Nexon and get the same gameplay so don't expect too much.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Initially the job/class xp was the "skill" because you had physical level. Now physical level is gone and your job/class is your level, but there's no skill level. I really want to see them bring it back. It prevents/deters powerleveling because who wants a 50whm with a healing skill of 30? Or a level 50 warrior that has no skill in ax. Then weapon skills would be related to skill level, not physical level, and abilities could be left to physical level. I realize that what we have now is hacked together due to massive changes in design, but I really hope this is addressed when things get revamped. Anyone else feel this way or am i alone?

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I'd have to disagree. One of the issues with skill especially in FFXI was there was no way to check the players current skill levels to see if they actually had them leveled up. Even if said player didn't have that particular skill leveled and he was a good player, you could never tell if he had the necessary skill to do that Abyssea/Voidwatch Proc when needed, but when it came to bad players it didn't matter if they had the best gear in the game and all skills capped you could always tell a bad player from a good one.

Another big issue was disparity between skills, some were extremely painful to level (IE: Parry, Healing Magic, Summoning Skill), and some skills didn't really contribute to anything (IE: Healing (until recently), Enfeebling skill) and others just scaled horribly (IE: Enhancing magic).

Even if we took the cut and dry route where you just need a specific amount of skill points built up to get said spell/ability/TP move, we still run into the problem where all those people with jobs at 50 will basically have to "re-level" their jobs to acquire the necessary skill to do anything. When you run into folks who only log into the game once or twice a week or just during event times they will have to spend their time going back skill-up which might take lord knows how long to get them up to par.

Don't take me too seriously on this sarcastic remark when I say this, but...

"Congratulations, you've successfully culled the casual crowd from end-game activities for at least six months!"

Honestly combat/magic skills are an unnecessary time sink which just force you to spend hours upon hours hitting a cap just so that you can be at max potency with your class. Time is better spent producing content which challenges the player not content that forces you to grind on mobs to improve your skills, instead of combat/magic skill we have the materia system which can be seen as a combat/magic skill like setup but we have more control over when we gain the materia the only difference is more luck is involved in obtaining a materia you may want.

I would love to have Skill Ups back, I always felt a sense of accomplishment getting some of those things to cap. Sure it was a grind and sometimes a long one at that (at least back in 75, not so bad anymore), but it still felt good (at least for me) when I saw everything in blue text.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Honestly combat/magic skills are an unnecessary time sink which just force you to spend hours upon hours hitting a cap just so that you can be at max potency with your class. Time is better spent producing content which challenges the player not content that forces you to grind on mobs to improve your skills, instead of combat/magic skill we have the materia system which can be seen as a combat/magic skill like setup but we have more control over when we gain the materia the only difference is more luck is involved in obtaining a materia you may want.

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Wouldn't an unnecessary time sink be just ones opinion? I mean the entire game right now is an unnecessary time sink yet we're still playing it.

I want it back also, Combat Skills and Magic Skills were great cause it gave you something to do inbetween parties and in your free time.

This doesn't necessary mean it need to be as slow as FFXI (god id hope not) but every game should have this in some form, I think its kinda lame that my character is just a "Master" swordsman as soon as he picks it up.

Hell to the NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Another big issue was disparity between skills, some were extremely painful to level (IE: Parry, Healing Magic, Summoning Skill), and some skills didn't really contribute to anything (IE: Healing (until recently), Enfeebling skill) and others just scaled horribly (IE: Enhancing magic).

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..Enfeebling didn't contribute to anything? Sure in 2001 beta maybe lol. Healing always contributed, they just made it more obvious recently.

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Even if we took the cut and dry route where you just need a specific amount of skill points built up to get said spell/ability/TP move, we still run into the problem where all those people with jobs at 50 will basically have to "re-level" their jobs to acquire the necessary skill to do anything.

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Not really. When they readded point allocation people were easily able to spend their points as they were already 50. The game works retroactively. When SE adjusted level curves and skill ratings in XI no one had to "go back" when they were already level 75 as they were already done prior to the changes, if they added in the system people who are already 50 would be granted the full benefit just like they are with every addition SE does to the core mechanics in XIV.

Maybe instead of a straight up level cap increase, they could add in a different skill point system to further the characters that way.. at least enough of a difference to be noticeable for now.

I have a thread for this, and most people said no, though I'm all for it.

Don't bring it back. Pointless system.

I'm not saying to bring it back exactly as it was in ffxi, as some were entirely to long to cap. However if it was scaled properly so that you would skill up properly with natural course of playing/partying/leveling, it would motivate people to play the game instead of afk leveling. It would promote group play as well. Sure, something like enfeebling might get a little gimpy, but if done right, it wouldn't be that hard to get it back to par. If they used xi's model, but revised it to be not as difficult to cap certain skills, I think it would be great. Sure it'll be unpopular to those who like ot afk level, but those people aren't much fun to play with anyway. "Hey i'm level 50 lets do ifrit!" /doesn'tknowhowtoplayjob.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

I'm not saying to bring it back exactly as it was in ffxi, as some were entirely to long to cap. However if it was scaled properly so that you would skill up properly with natural course of playing/partying/leveling, it would motivate people to play the game instead of afk leveling. It would promote group play as well. Sure, something like enfeebling might get a little gimpy, but if done right, it wouldn't be that hard to get it back to par. If they used xi's model, but revised it to be not as difficult to cap certain skills, I think it would be great. Sure it'll be unpopular to those who like ot afk level, but those people aren't much fun to play with anyway. "Hey i'm level 50 lets do ifrit!" /doesn'tknowhowtoplayjob.

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Your suggestion is a little silly anyway.. but I'm not trying to come off as a hardass.

As the leveling system is now, skills for parrying, evasion, and weapons, etc, they have no place - your skill with your weapon of choice (dependent on your class/job) is symbolized by your level with that class or job. Would it make sense at the start of 2.0 for a gladiator or a paladin have zero sword skill in spite of the fact that each class can use a single type of weapon?

Also, it'd be pretty silly to introduce skillups in a system where you get abilities and things by leveling up, especially after so long. It wouldn't make sense.

If anything, they could come back as bonuses "buyable" with some form of merit points. That'd also allow for more customization.

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Originally Posted by Vingtdeux

If anything, they could come back as bonuses "buyable" with some form of merit points. That'd also allow for more customization.

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That is a system I would enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Not really. When they readded point allocation people were easily able to spend their points as they were already 50. The game works retroactively. When SE adjusted level curves and skill ratings in XI no one had to "go back" when they were already level 75 as they were already done prior to the changes, if they added in the system people who are already 50 would be granted the full benefit just like they are with every addition SE does to the core mechanics in XIV.

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Not everything works retroactively in FFXIV, especially if it comes down to building skills up to actually play your job. Achievements are a testament to this because many who had jobs to 50 (myself included) were not credited for the time they spent gathering at different areas, crafting different grades of items, or the amount of gil obtained through Leves/Mobs.

The reason it worked for the stat point allotments is because it was already implemented in game, was brought back, and the points are given to you based on your level not some kind of skill up or achievement. The monsters slain achievements are the same way, it was already in the system so they just incorporated it into the Achievements system.

The reason it likely won't work for skill ups is similar to the reason they never accredited people for crafting, gathering, and obtaining gil, it simply wasn't something they originally planned on bringing into the game so they never kept tabs on the amount of work people put into their character already.

Unless of course, SE decides to be nice about the whole thing and just reward people the skill based on their current levels already, I'll still stand by my remark that it culls the more casual players from endgame activities for a while.

Healing never contributed much until recently in XI

(Old formula)
@130MND, 100VIT, 50Potency

0skill CureV: 982
290skill CureV: 1062 (75cap)
440skill CureV: 1086 (99cap)

Elexia, please stop pretending you understand XI's formulas.

lol seriously healing skill barely did anything. I leveled WHM when it took months to get to 75 and that crap was never capped. It finally capped years later while PL'ing some friends, and I played WHM for literally every event.

i don't think i'd like skill point anymore, it's an obsolete feature. Hell, they removed in WoW where skills leveled in a snap

with all the bring x mechanic back threads as of late, I think SE should just re-release the beta and call it 2.0.

thumb up for skill up, thumb down for lazy ass ppl who dont want it back kthxbye

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Hell to the NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

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hello good sir, could i continue your No. ahem, here I go..

-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'd be all for "skill-ups" or leveling skill sets or raising proficiencies however it would really suck for anyone who's playing now/before they implement it. Reason being everyone's skills would have to start at 0 as it's a newly implemented system. Just like with achievements some things aren't tracked and I'm guessing number of kills with specific weapons or the number of times specific skills are used is not tracked currently. Personally it would only be a minor inconvenience but I can see the rage brewing over it now.

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Originally Posted by yialee

thumb up for skill up, thumb down for lazy ass ppl who dont want it back kthxbye

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It isn't a matter of laziness.

It's a matter of skillups being a broken, obsolete system.

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Originally Posted by Doho

hello good sir, could i continue your No. ahem, here I go..

-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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-ooooooooooooooooo0oooooooo00000o00OOo0O0O0OOO0o00ooo0oOOOO0ooo0OOooOo


(Ahem. Outdated. No point as Classes are restricted to one weapon type and other skills are quested for. No benefit because skills are learned automatically with levels. It's a time-sink, without substance. I would rather they just add more quested skills/abilities.)

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Hell to the NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thanks for your constructive contribution.

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Originally Posted by yialee

thumb up for skill up, thumb down for lazy ass ppl who dont want it back kthxbye

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What part of sitting at a computer watching your character auto attack their way to proficiency in a skill isn't the very definition of lazy?

I hate the "lazy" argument when trying to justify things in a lesiure activity. We play MMOs to be lazy.

That said, things like skill levels were a stop gap to actual content. A way of extending the leveling experience without actually adding more levels.

I can understand how people enjoyed it. Just the same as people enjoyed the slow grind of killing the same few mobs over and over for months in XI.

Given that SE wants a broader audience for XIV, skill levels don't really seem to have a place. There are so many games out there begging for players to keep playing beyond the single player campaign that MMOs need to engage more to compete.

Watching your character auto attack for an RNG to give a 0.1 just isn't going to achieve that.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Thanks for your constructive contribution.

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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/16839376.jpg

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Originally Posted by yialee

thumb up for skill up, thumb down for lazy ass ppl who dont want it back kthxbye

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How bout I put it this way.

-SE adds skills update.
-Players log in to do their daily linkshell events.
-Oh Shit Son! Our abilities are the equivilant of level 2. We have to interrupt our entire linkshell schedule, stuff we've been doing for ages, for the next few days/weeks/months/a year to get everyone BACK UP TO PAR.

Considering event's will start cycling regularly at 2.0's release and new slew of content and areas will be available to explore, and I can say with pure certainty that the majority of people would hate to stop and be forced to grind before they can do anything worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

How bout I put it this way.

-SE adds skills update.
-Players log in to do their daily linkshell events.
-Oh Shit Son! Our abilities are the equivilant of level 2. We have to interrupt our entire linkshell schedule, stuff we've been doing for ages, for the next few days/weeks/months/a year to get everyone BACK UP TO PAR.

Considering event's will start cycling regularly at 2.0's release and new slew of content and areas will be available to explore, and I can say with pure certainty that the majority of people would hate to stop and be forced to grind before they can do anything worthwhile.

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This is like saying New job comes out oh shit its lvl 1 have to interrupt ls event to lvl it. Guess they shouldn't add new jobs to the game either because it will just get in everyone's way

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

This is like saying New job comes out oh shit its lvl 1 have to interrupt ls event to lvl it. Guess they shouldn't add new jobs to the game either because it will just get in everyone's way

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It's more like you have to go back and re-level your job to regain stuff you've already put time and effort in for, not start from scratch and make progress on both fronts.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

This is like saying New job comes out oh shit its lvl 1 have to interrupt ls event to lvl it. Guess they shouldn't add new jobs to the game either because it will just get in everyone's way

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Incorrect. Leveling weapon skills, combat skills, and magic skills isn't the same as a new class coming out;
- Leveling said class is entirely optional.

Skill levels coming out with everyone starting at 0 is different;
- A 50 DRG with a lance skill of 0 is forced to grind his lance all the way to cap before his accuracy, attack, and other damage calculations go back to normal.
Thusly, in order to do ANYTHING, that DRG as well as the rest of the players in the game have to stop and spend x amount of days/weeks/months putting their skills 'back' to the normal level of what they're used to.
You want hit a mob? You want to heal properly? Want to block properly? You NEED skill levels.

You DON'T need to level an entirely new class. That's different.

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Originally Posted by TokyieRage

I think its kinda lame that my character is just a "Master" swordsman as soon as he picks it up.

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Really? When my character first picked up his sword, he had 1 skill and had no chance of taking on anything more than 2 levels above him. Guess my account is bugged or something.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

Incorrect. Leveling weapon skills, combat skills, and magic skills isn't the same as a new class coming out;
- Leveling said class is entirely optional.

Skill levels coming out with everyone starting at 0 is different;
- A 50 DRG with a lance skill of 0 is forced to grind his lance all the way to cap before his accuracy, attack, and other damage calculations go back to normal.
Thusly, in order to do ANYTHING, that DRG as well as the rest of the players in the game have to stop and spend x amount of days/weeks/months putting their skills 'back' to the normal level of what they're used to.
You want hit a mob? You want to heal properly? Want to block properly? You NEED skill levels.

You DON'T need to level an entirely new class. That's different.

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The wasn't the point I was getting it, the point I was getting at is FFXIV shouldn't implement new things to the game because people will have to actually work? That is retarded. I'm also assuming they could implement X amount of skillpoints for current lvl 50s to compensate for adding this feature in.

And if you have to go back and do it anyways so be it, I'm sure people will live and move on with their life whether they add it or not.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

The wasn't the point I was getting it, the point I was getting at is FFXIV shouldn't implement new things to the game because people will have to actually work? That is retarded. I'm also assuming they could implement X amount of skillpoints for current lvl 50s to compensate for adding this feature in.

And if you have to go back and do it anyways so be it, I'm sure people will live and move on with their life whether they add it or not.

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That's a good point but completely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

I think if I had to go back and skill up stuff in 14 I would just unsub

I'm completely bullshitting with the "I think" portion though.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

The wasn't the point I was getting it, the point I was getting at is FFXIV shouldn't implement new things to the game because people will have to actually work? That is retarded. I'm also assuming they could implement X amount of skillpoints for current lvl 50s to compensate for adding this feature in.

And if you have to go back and do it anyways so be it, I'm sure people will live and move on with their life whether they add it or not.

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Right over your head. The whole point of this argument is that skill levels are an obsolete, and old system that don't need to make a return. I'd rather not take 2 years of being PLD to cap sword skill.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

Right over your head. The whole point of this argument is that skill levels are an obsolete, and old system that don't need to make a return. I'd rather not take 2 years of being PLD to cap sword skill.

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I kept typing a lot of stuff then I realized how dumb arguing about this really is because next you are going to tell me you are hitting 100% of the time with 364 acc like the excalibur people in dragoon forums, so I'm just going to sit here and laugh instead.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

I kept typing a lot of stuff then I realized how dumb arguing about this really is because next you are going to tell me you are hitting 100% of the time with 364 acc like the excalibur people in dragoon forums, so I'm just going to sit here and laugh instead.

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1) My PLD doesn't tank anything because my gear is inadequate to the task.
2) I consider my main job to be DRG, and I hit extremely consistently with around ~400acc, unbuffed.
3) lolwut

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Originally Posted by Yucie

1) My PLD doesn't tank anything because my gear is inadequate to the task.
2) I consider my main job to be DRG, and I hit extremely consistently with around ~400acc, unbuffed.
3) lolwut

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Just go with it, idk