Guess I finally give up Bard in PvP

An effective 3000 potency loss on what little burst the class has. Even if you add the 2000 potency buff to Burst Arrow, one is still looking at an overall 1000 potency loss to a class that was already under-performing. On top of that, nerfing the recast time of Silent Nocturne, making the skill even harder to make be of use. Nerfing the duration of Warden's Paean, the one defensive capability, outside of guard, that Bard has.

They really want to reduce the class to nothing but a very boring totem that just sits in the back doing minor "poke" damage, while providing a meager buff to the team.

I've been able to adapt new strategies and techniques to compensate for a very long time, but this is getting exhausting. At this point, feels like playing Bard in PvP is for gigachad mode players only, cause only people playing at that level can get anything out of the class.

Addendum: Oh, and I forgot to mention the already 8000 potency opportunity loss thanks to the range nerf on Silent Nocturne.

Oh, also, Red Mage still retains its 25 yalm, 8000 potency line AoE silence, WITH A 20 SEC COOLDOWN! But Bard had to be nerfed cause reasons.

I felt overall the buffs/nerfs were sensible, but I have no idea why Bard got smacked like this.

At least they buffed Blackmage, that was really important and sensible.

Yeah...I'm just going to give up bard and go with DRG or SAM since those seem to be the dev's fav.

I heard bard and whm was in almost every team comp in jp fanfest tournament. Apparently It mean they are too strong, Thus the nerf

I think at this point BRD would benefit from an ability rework - give it something iconic bards use to have like Edward's "Hide" to get out of enemy focus or Mages Ballad to refresh mp like they used to back in ARR.

Sure it might make sense in the top 1% and premades but at this point it's just griefing when you play bard in casual random CC matches...

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Envoyé par Eastwall

I heard bard and whm was in almost every team comp in jp fanfest tournament. Apparently It mean they are too strong, Thus the nerf

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That is not the case in all the datacenters, but I guess we should nerf bard instead of a universally consistent pick like DRG that is in every team on every datacenter around the world.

I don’t get the brd and smn changes.

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Envoyé par Valence

That is not the case in all the datacenters, but I guess we should nerf bard instead of a universally consistent pick like DRG that is in every team on every datacenter around the world.

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EU is the lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions. You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps since you allow your ranked pvp to die for half the season every season damn near. Your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously, you're not going to be included in balance change discussions.

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Envoyé par Eastwall

I heard bard and whm was in almost every team comp in jp fanfest tournament. Apparently It mean they are too strong, Thus the nerf

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WHM pretty much took over LP on NA and JP because the other healers don't really do anything.

SCH sucks at playing from behind/defensively with partial teams and has no offensive burst to contribute for important 3v3/4v4/3v4 situations after the opening where 1 person on each team dies. Comps are also going for more damage builds instead of sustain comps due to increasing standards of coordinated burst invalidating sustain comps so the healing reduction is kinda useless as well.
SGE has no CC and its added damage burst is pretty much just overkill in an LP setting and not needed so all it brings is a long cd LB.
AST's LB doesn't do anything on its own to guarantee momentum (this ends up with teams often just focusing whoever the AST is going to combo with so they're staggered in death or LB management), the aoe combo is partially irrelevant because of LP positioning, and the healing is useless against good coordinated teams that will kill someone in 1-2s before any reaction/HoT can even save someone. It's good, just not at the highest level of play.

Meanwhile WHM was floating an aoe stun and damage chunk LB every min and a 30s guaranteed kill move. In terms of guaranteed momentum throughout a match, its the only LP choice.

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Envoyé par VoidsentStatus

EU is the lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions. You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps since you allow your ranked pvp to die for half the season every season damn near. Your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously, you're not going to be included in balance change discussions.

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So what? We should dump regions that have different metas or environments because of what? Their activity?

I haven't played on other DCs to check how it is, and frankly, while I find it interesting to learn more about it, I don't see how saying that "you don't matter and should suck it up even if balance changes literally harm your region even more" helps anything..

( i'd actually be interested to have takes from actual EU players that have dabbled in all and see if they hold the same view on it )

Edit: also, you completely missed the point I was making.

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Envoyé par VoidsentStatus

EU is the lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions. You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps since you allow your ranked pvp to die for half the season every season damn near. Your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously, you're not going to be included in balance change discussions.

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Hopefully you don't believe NA is any more relevant nor included in balance changes discussions lmao

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Envoyé par VoidsentStatus

EU is the lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions. You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps since you allow your ranked pvp to die for half the season every season damn near. Your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously, you're not going to be included in balance change discussions.

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Treating PVP in this game seriously is a joke in itself. Just because someone knows how to time perfectly Silent, it doesn't mean you need to nerf the job over and over again, what will come next?, because the same thing will happen over and over again until Silent has a cooldown time of 2minute and duration of 0.1 seconds, or they remove it entirely. You can calculate it all you want, someone already did in my other post, it won't change anything. If they go like this just because at fanfest everyone used Bard, at the end of this year, Bard will have almost no dmg and a silent, so it will become a job that does only 1 thing, pushes 1 button at the right time for the team to finish 1 player, or already is exactly that. I would not be surprised if in the next patch, Bard gets an overall range nerf to 10 yards, so meles can hit them all the time. They made a job, that has a skill that is too strong in their little 5vs5 game if it's used right, so now they nerf it to the ground to be a boring 1 button job that only helps their team to kill 1 people every 30seconds now, because by itself can't push anyone to even care if you hit them.

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Envoyé par KiraShalen

Hopefully you don't believe NA is any more relevant nor included in balance changes discussions lmao

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More relevant than EU, but not more than JP since 2 data centers for NA die for several days/weeks as well consistently, just not as bad as EU. JP has 6-8 hours of pvp on every data center, the entire season, at crystal rank, holidays included. They don't take breaks so they smoke NA and EU in terms of sample size which is what they said they based nerfs and buffs off of.

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Envoyé par Valence

So what? We should dump regions that have different metas or environments because of what? Their activity?

I haven't played on other DCs to check how it is, and frankly, while I find it interesting to learn more about it, I don't see how saying that "you don't matter and should suck it up even if balance changes literally harm your region even more" helps anything..

( i'd actually be interested to have takes from actual EU players that have dabbled in all and see if they hold the same view on it )

Edit: also, you completely missed the point I was making.

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Yes. That is what the developers already stated they do. They looked at the statistics for win rates across several data centers to decide what is buffed and nerfed, and if you're looking at win rates, you're probably looking at sample sizes and skill with said sample size as added elements. JP is the only data region with increased matchmaking difficulty because they're the only data region active enough to support SE making more competitive matches so they're going to have the highest influence on balance changes by a good margin, then NA after, then EU, then OCE.

(a bit) more active doesn't mean it's better. NA is the perfect example (not only for this game)

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Envoyé par KiraShalen

(a bit) more active doesn't mean it's better. NA is the perfect example (not only for this game)

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"a bit" is a little underestimating considering I just lost getting top 100 by 1 day's worth of grind because the Chaos DC had half their pvp discord vote to leave ranked matches dead for over 4 weeks including the last week of the season.

When the rewards are garbage there's not much reason to play. A lot of people in EU just go for handful of wins to get their top 100 and quit for season out of habit at this point.

Back when nobody had them during the first like two seasons, the queues popped around the clock.

As for the actual topic, I'm pretty indifferent for the changes at this point.

To be honest JP probably have the right mindset and play for the mode instead of the rewards, but that's another topic.

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Envoyé par VoidsentStatus

Yes. That is what the developers already stated they do. They looked at the statistics for win rates across several data centers to decide what is buffed and nerfed, and if you're looking at win rates, you're probably looking at sample sizes and skill with said sample size as added elements. JP is the only data region with increased matchmaking difficulty because they're the only data region active enough to support SE making more competitive matches so they're going to have the highest influence on balance changes by a good margin, then NA after, then EU, then OCE.

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You're making a boatload of assumptions to serve your narrative, but that could be possible, don't get me wrong.

Still completely beyond the point I made but whatever.

Squenix's approach to PVP is backwards. They keep punishing good players for being able to optimize their class while rewarding bad players by making it easier to not use your brain and still get kills. PvP isn't PvE and Squenix needs to stop nerfing classes that don't need to be nerfed. Players need to get better. It's PvP, it's competitive. If a team is letting an opposing BRD spam freely in the backlines, then that's on them for being bad. There's absolutely no reason for another BRD nerf.

Same with MNK RoE, good players will time their CC's to prevent MNK from getting it off. It takes forever to activate to begin with. Now, with the 8s duration, MNK timing is all off and now MNK players will have to adjust to something that didn't even needed to be nerfed.

Also, I think the reason that RDM silence didn't get nerfed is that because it's a spell whereas SNocturne is an ability (allowing for quick follow up burst from the BRD, whereas RDM has to wait for GCD: which is actually a huge impact because you're basically shaving some of that silence duration off, giving ppl time to react).

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Envoyé par Valence

To be honest JP probably have the right mindset and play for the mode instead of the rewards, but that's another topic.



You're making a boatload of assumptions to serve your narrative, but that could be possible, don't get me wrong.

Still completely beyond the point I made but whatever.

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actually nevermind. Forgot that the devs added pvp explanations for changes in the job guide now. at the bottom for patch 6.55 changes https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/#pvpaction

"For this round of adjustments, we've focused primarily on tuning jobs that see low usage rates in ranked matches. We've also chosen to address the exceedingly powerful synergy between white mage and bard, which stems from both jobs having effective strategies for impeding enemies and countering status afflictions. To this end, we've made adjustments to balance white mage and bard performance, and ensure a wider variety of job synergies are effective. "

"Monk maintains its impressive win rate in higher tier ranked matches. One factor accounting for this is monk's considerable damage mitigation. To tone this down, we've adjusted the effect duration of Earth Resonance."

"We've adjusted Empyreal Arrow and Silent Nocturne to reduce each ability's respective impact on burst damage output, as well as reduced the effect duration of the Warden's Paean. To avoid simply weakening the job, we've also increased the potency of Blast Arrow and reduced the recast time of The Warden's Paean. Our intention is to highlight the bard's distinctive combination of powerful weaponskills and support capabilities."

"Not only can Miracle of Nature underpin remarkable burst damage output with proper coordination, but white mage has seen consistently high usage and win rates in ranked matches. To that end, we've reduced the potency of Miracle of Nature by adjusting its recast time."

So yes, they are definitely looking at ranked matches and statistics. And they are targeting the whm bard spam crystal lobbies on JP.

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Envoyé par VoidsentStatus

EU is the lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions. You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps since you allow your ranked pvp to die for half the season every season damn near. Your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously, you're not going to be included in balance change discussions.

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> Lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions
> "your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously"

Lets take a look at Dynamis top 100

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...181&height=676

> "You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps"

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Envoyé par KongouPrime

> Lowest quality pvp out of the 3 main data regions
> "your data region doesn't even treat pvp seriously"

Lets take a look at Dynamis top 100

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...181&height=676

> "You are the lowest sample size of matches and comps"

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You should've checked the other bard thread to realize I'm a JP main for PvP since Season 4. Unlike EU people, I didn't stay on a dead data center while forming opinions :3

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEFhfRIX...g&name=900x900
"S1 - Crystal - Aether
S2 - Crystal - Primal
S3 - Crystal - Crystal
S4 - Top 100 - Crystal, Top 30 - Dynamis, Crystal - Mana
S5 - Crystal - Mana
S8 - Crystal - Mana, Crystal - Elemental (WAR), Crystal - Gaia (DRG), Crystal - Meteor (RPR)
S9 - 1200 Credits - Mana, 1300 Credits - Elemental (WAR), 1100 Credits - Gaia (DRG), 900 Credits - Meteor (RPR), Top 100 - Primal, Diamond 2 - Chaos"

Sidenote, if you're treating a data center that's only existed for 1 year compared to data centers that are 4-10 years old and missed 33% of the CC PvP Seasons because it wasn't made yet as a "main" data center for its region, you're reaching.

:3 :3 :> :D D: §:

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Envoyé par Valence

That is not the case in all the datacenters, but I guess we should nerf bard instead of a universally consistent pick like DRG that is in every team on every datacenter around the world.

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Lol, l am just trying to say why they might did it, not if this is the right move. I only play casual So l could careless. I don't mind a fast 2 minutes loss to get that sweet tomestone

I'm not convinced as strongly about this than I initially thought. I lack too much data on other regions to make myself an opinion on bard. It's just not a dominating job in the west is all, which means that nerfing it may be the best move elsewhere, but not where I play.