Isn't "Artist" a better name?

Heyho,

I love how simple most of the job names are in this game. All of them are easy to remember and imagine what they do. Except for Gunbreaker, which should have been called Gunblade.

Monk.
Reaper.
Astrologian.
Black Mage.
White Mage.
Red Mage.
Blue Mage.
Machinist.
Viper. (Kinda sucks at telling you what it is but easily builds rapport over time due to 2 syllables)
Summoner.
Ninja.
Paladin.
Samurai.
Dark Knight.
Dancer.
Sage.
Bard.
Warrior.
Scholar.
Artist.

It just fits!

You can still have it be inspired by Relm (who is an artist by the way) without duplicating the hyper-unique weird ass job name. Necromancer is the only job that's allowed the -mancer title imo because there's no simpler substitute and it's universally known. Even Geomancer is too niche. But if you have an easy substitute - Artist - just use it!

That's my opinion anyway, what do you think?

adding mancer to a word definitely isn't unique in anyway.

sorta like adding a color to the title mage definitely isn't a good naming convention.

i feel just about any name would have been meh while i would have liked something different than pictomancer the other two options were painter or artist, maybe someone else could have came up with a more fantasy esc name but overall the naming options for the job were pretty bad.

"Pictomancer" has been the job's official name in other Final Fantasy and Bravely Default media so I don't understand why they would need to change the name starting now.

i disagree i like it being distinguishable from a normal artist.

they have used the term artist in the msq, its a common term in at least 2 shards for someone expressive in the arts, but not really a combatant.
if anything i think Dancer/Scholar needs a different name more befitting the combat role it actually is

It's odd to me that the names of these two new jobs are what concerns some of the players the most.

It couldn't care less if the job was called Watchamacallit so long as it is actually fun to play and fits the game's aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

"Pictomancer" has been the job's official name in other Final Fantasy and Bravely Default media so I don't understand why they would need to change the name starting now.

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Has any Final Fantasy game ever actually called it "Pictomancer" in the English version? I definitely don't remember Relm being called a Pictomancer back in the day. Maybe I'm just old and don't remember :D

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Has any Final Fantasy game ever actually called it "Pictomancer" in the English version? I definitely don't remember Relm being called a Pictomancer back in the day. Maybe I'm just old and don't remember :D

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In the game menu when you select Relm it has her job title "Pictomancer".

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...ffvi35_101.png

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

In the game menu when you select Relm it has her job title "Pictomancer".

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OMG, I totally forgot that. Still don't remember it on the SNES FFIII version though. Guess I just didn't pay attention when I was that young.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

i disagree i like it being distinguishable from a normal artist.

they have used the term artist in the msq, its a common term in at least 2 shards for someone expressive in the arts, but not really a combatant.
if anything i think Dancer/Scholar needs a different name more befitting the combat role it actually is

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Definitely not, no. I love those simple names.

Dancers and Scholars are also contradicting your initial statement because everybody knows to distinguish them from normal dancers and scholars. Yet their moniker is easily marketable and doesn't seem too niche and weird.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Definitely not, no. I love those simple names.

Dancers and Scholars are also contradicting your initial statement because everybody knows to distinguish them from normal dancers and scholars. Yet their moniker is easily marketable and doesn't seem too niche and weird.

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so then the little ladies day dancers are not dancers or are they dancers? and what about the sharlayan scholars, are they or are they not scholars?
so did Alphy change jobs to artist in ShB? or is that something else?
if you want to argue semantics be my guest.

all in all its a matter of personal taste, and my taste disagrees with your taste.
beyond that its not like it matters, it will be called a "PTM" or "PIC" by everyone anyways.

Astrologian is a pretty weird name for a fortuneteller.

Sage is easy to remember, but doesn't tell you anything about their role, weapon, or even class flavor. Medic would have been better, but they wanted to use a "classic FF" job name even if it has zero in common.

I would have picked Painter over Artist, to be more specific about what kind of art, but Pictomancer is fine since it's what the class was called before. It's a mage class. It can't use the same rules as physical ranged Dancer/Bard.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

if anything i think Dancer/Scholar needs a different name more befitting the combat role it actually is

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More befitting their role in combat? Get ready for Broilomancer and DPSpaddomancer.

Faecaller and flinger maybe <3

granted there is a simple elegance to DPSpaddomancer that i am drawn too uncontrollably :)

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

In the game menu when you select Relm it has her job title "Pictomancer".

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...ffvi35_101.png

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Is this the SNES version? I don't remember their jobs actually being listed in the main menu.

I was around 10-12 when I played FFVI (it was FFIII at the time here in the US). The game did not use the classic job system like FFI and FFIV (this was FFII here in the US). My friends and I would refer to the characters of VI based on their weapon, unique skill, attire, or just their name. Our history with the franchise was in the very early stages as the actual other FF games (II, III, and V were not released in the US at the time), so we related the characters to what we knew, which was things like D&D, Conan, LoTR, etc.

Ceres was a knight
Shadow was a Ninja
Cyan was a Samurai
Locke was a Thief
Terra was an Esper because the game specifically refers to her this way
Strago was a Mage

Iirc characters like Setzer and Gau were ambiguous and we just referred to them as their names. However, what I know for certain was that we did not refer to Edgar as Machinist or Relm as a Pictomancer. These job titles came about after the release of FFVI. I honestly didn't know Relm was a Pictomancer until recently because I had no idea this title even existed.

I'm not stating any of this as fact and just going off of memory.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Has any Final Fantasy game ever actually called it "Pictomancer" in the English version? I definitely don't remember Relm being called a Pictomancer back in the day. Maybe I'm just old and don't remember :D

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yes, the original Japanese naming for Relm's class in FFVI is ピクトマンサー Pikutomansa aka Pictomancer. The class names only existed in the original JPN version. The NA SNES release omitted the job titles in the menu and even omitted the feature of renaming Cyan's Bushido skills using kanji.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Is this the SNES version? I don't remember their jobs actually being listed in the main menu.

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This is the Advance version.

It doesn't really matter what they call the job. That being said Lost Ark already has an artist so maybe there's at least a reason to just keep the name pictomancer.

Either way I don't care what they call the job I care what it plays like.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so then the little ladies day dancers are not dancers or are they dancers? and what about the sharlayan scholars, are they or are they not scholars?
so did Alphy change jobs to artist in ShB? or is that something else?
if you want to argue semantics be my guest

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You wanna argue.

Nobody in the history of the universe ever confused DNC for a little ladies' day dancer. Or a SCH for any other kind of scholar.

That's my entire argument - semantics don't matter. So you can just call it Artist. Nobody will be confused.

Artist is someone that makes art.

Pictomancer is someone who attacks with art.

I however am a neckwearmancer...

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Originally Posted by Eisi

You wanna argue.

Nobody in the history of the universe ever confused DNC for a little ladies' day dancer. Or a SCH for any other kind of scholar.

That's my entire argument - semantics don't matter. So you can just call it Artist. Nobody will be confused.

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+1,

Like, Leonardo da Vinci was an artist. Banksy is an artist. They are not the same by any means, but nobody is confused that they are/were artists to some degree. Same way a modern Marine (the soldier) not confused to mean some kind of oceanic adjective.

That said, Pictomancer is very evocative, and has game history…specifically “-mancer” giving a clear image of “this is some kinda mage”.

"Artist" would have probably been fine in a vacuum, but Final Fantasy likes to make callbacks to its history and roster of "jobs," and Pictomancer is already right there in FFVI for an artist character. It would arguably be a little weird if they didn't call it Pictomancer, sort of like if they put a pervy octopus monster in FFXIV and didn't name him Ultros.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

I love how simple most of the job names are in this game. All of them are easy to remember and imagine what they do.

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That's true for some, not true at all for others. Imagine you've never played a Final Fantasy game before. What would you think of a "White Mage," "Black Mage," "Red Mage," and "Blue Mage"? There's no making sense of that just by the name. The only reason anyone would easily imagine what these jobs do, is if they have knowledge of the series traditions. Which is why they went with Pictomancer, it is an established term in Final Fantasy and known to be a battle job. "Artist" I don't have any particular problem with fundamentally, but without context it doesn't mean anything in particular gameplay-wise. It could easily be a new crafting job where you create housing decorations, wall art, etc.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

semantics don't matter. So you can just call it Artist.

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or you can just stop being a diva and call it a pictomancer just like the people whom made it decided..

It's not even an artist, it doesn't create anything new, it copies the same images as every other pictomancer, it does animate the pictures it copies though (you know thus mancer, duh)

I guess if you wanna be coy about it you could call it a xerox, or just a printer mage if you want to stay with form.. lol

Yeah Astrologian, Black Mage, etc just roll off the tongue. Man you guys must be bored.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Yeah Astrologian, Black Mage, etc just roll off the tongue. Man you guys must be bored.

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Put an etc. here to suggest more jobs when there aren't any.

Astrologian is at least a real word and Black Mage is as simple as you can get. Black magic, everybody knows that. Other colors derive from that. At the very least everybody knows what a Mage is.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

or you can just stop being a diva and call it a pictomancer just like the people whom made it decided..

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SE is being the diva by calling it a fancy schmanzy Pictomancer instead of an earnest down-to-earth bread and butter Artist!

https://i.imgur.com/oTZlwRp.jpg

Get ready to be mad about the names of their moves, too.

its not an artist, an artist creates, it only copies, your inherent argument is flawed and incorrect

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Put an etc. here to suggest more jobs when there aren't any.

Astrologian is at least a real word and Black Mage is as simple as

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Whether you're talking about the spelling or concept, XIV has several jobs that are just like..what? Viper? Reaper? Sage? Even Blue Mage...Those are not classes you can just tell someone by name and they can just guess what it is in this game. You are implying there is some kind of consistency here when there really isn't. What is consistent is that most of them are former FF jobs and that's where the understanding comes from.

Also as others have pointed out, Pictomancer may be artistic but that doesn't make it an artist.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

I guess if you wanna be coy about it you could call it a xerox, or just a printer mage if you want to stay with form.. lol

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To be fair, Yoshida dedicated a few minutes to specifically explaining that they were changing the German name from "duplicator" to "pictomancer" and that this iteration of the job would be doing more than just copying.

But still, no reason to object to having the distinct concept of pictomancer over generic artist.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

https://i.imgur.com/oTZlwRp.jpg

Get ready to be mad about the names of their moves, too.

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What? Those are great! Especially Sub-Job BP Saver.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

its not an artist, an artist creates, it only copies, your inherent argument is flawed and incorrect

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All artists copy and create, including the new job, your argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Whether you're talking about the spelling or concept, XIV has several jobs that are just like..what? Viper? Reaper? Sage? Even Blue Mage...Those are not classes you can just tell someone by name and they can just guess what it is in this game. You are implying there is some kind of consistency here when there really isn't. What is consistent is that most of them are former FF jobs and that's where the understanding comes from.

Also as others have pointed out, Pictomancer may be artistic but that doesn't make it an artist.

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Those are all very easy words. Pictomancer is way too fancy.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But still, no reason to object to having the distinct concept of pictomancer over generic artist.

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The reason is it's too distinct. Artist is nice and simple. Like Warrior or Summoner or Black Mage. Pictomancer is super sophisticated and not even intriguing. When learning about it people will go "Oh, so it's just an Artist. Like in Lost Ark but more snobbish."

so i guess a printer is an artist now.

also pictomancer is not really complicated at all, its 3 syllables.. elevate yourself.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

https://i.imgur.com/oTZlwRp.jpg

Get ready to be mad about the names of their moves, too.

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A lot of those are amazing, but I think "Indefensible Teal" is my favourite. Imagine a teal so repulsive, there is no justification for it.

I was actually thinking earlier today that "brush with death" needs to be some kind of Pictomancer spell or trait.

Just think, With the addition of Pictomancer in FFXIV "I'm going to paint your portrait" will return to being a threat. :3

"Artist" is too vague and covers music and dance, BRD and DNC falls under the "Artist" category.
Pictography is the exact word of someone who works by drawing pictures.
-Mancer suffix is used to designated someone using something for mystical, divine, magic purpose.

Such as Geomancer.
If it was Geomancer no one would complain about its name.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Heyho,

I love how simple most of the job names are in this game. All of them are easy to remember and imagine what they do. Except for Gunbreaker, which should have been called Gunblade.

Monk.
Reaper.
Astrologian.
Black Mage.
White Mage.
Red Mage.
Blue Mage.
Machinist.
Viper. (Kinda sucks at telling you what it is but easily builds rapport over time due to 2 syllables)
Summoner.
Ninja.
Paladin.
Samurai.
Dark Knight.
Dancer.
Sage.
Bard.
Warrior.
Scholar.
Artist.

It just fits!

You can still have it be inspired by Relm (who is an artist by the way) without duplicating the hyper-unique weird ass job name. Necromancer is the only job that's allowed the -mancer title imo because there's no simpler substitute and it's universally known. Even Geomancer is too niche. But if you have an easy substitute - Artist - just use it!

That's my opinion anyway, what do you think?

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while id have liked artist too the name kinda has to be picto because of what it is

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

"Artist" is too vague and covers music and dance, BRD and DNC falls under the "Artist" category.
Pictography is the exact word of someone who works by drawing pictures.
-Mancer suffix is used to designated someone using something for mystical, divine, magic purpose.

Such as Geomancer.
If it was Geomancer no one would complain about its name.

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kung fu is also an art - martial art

Technically Krille is an AI artist.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Those are all very easy words. Pictomancer is way too fancy.

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So is it about understanding or is it about syllables? Becuase I've already proven that not all names are easy to pronounce and I've also proven not all names are easy to understand. So your post doesn't work, I'm sorry.

Also Pictomancer is not an artist, period end of story. It is not predicated on creating art. It is a fictional painter that instantiates things they've observed into life. The job has nothing to do with traditional ideas of art, which is another reason why all the whiners trying to hold it to some kind of strict artistic standard sound incredible dense. A real life painter cannot paint stones into a 3D earth attack, nor is combat their motivation.

As others have pointed out it's impractical as well. If you want to say this class is an artist well then virtually all of them are, not just BRD or DNC.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

You wanna argue.

Nobody in the history of the universe ever confused DNC for a little ladies' day dancer. Or a SCH for any other kind of scholar.

That's my entire argument - semantics don't matter. So you can just call it Artist. Nobody will be confused.

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To be fair, in-universe the terms aren't going to be confused as much as 'Artist' would.
the term of Scholar as it relates to the SCH job comes from a civilization long collapsed (Nym). Very few people in-universe are going to confuse the terms simply because outside of the WoL, the job of SCH is basically extinct. To the infinitely vast majority in-universe, the only term Scholar applies to is the traditionally defined Academic Scholar. Sharlayan even has their own form of healer based on similar principles of the ancient Scholars - except its called Academician (Alphinaud is one).

The DNC troup involved in the DNC job questline is an interesting thing because for all intents and purposes, they want to simply have people believe they're just ordinary dancers, since their whole goal is to attract crowds to draw our the negative energy. In-universe, they don't want their skills to have a unique name, because they want to be incognito. So having people not be confused on what they are vs actual normal dancers is their point.

Contrast that to Artist, which is a very widely used term in-universe already.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

All of them are easy to remember and imagine what they do.

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Because anyone not intimately familiar with FF lore is totally gonna know that Black Mages are mages who use various types of elemental magics and not some kind of darkness-element themed caster.
Or that Red Mage is all about doing spells from both black & white mages with a bit of swordplay mixed in, instead of some mage specializing in something that thematically makes sense with its name like Fire.
Or that Blue Mage is about learning enemy skills rather than being a mage that specializes in something thematically to its name like water.

Pictomancer straight up tells you exactly what it does given that its the combination of the words 'Pictography', or basically the essence of utilization of pictures for communication, and mancer, a user of a specific type of magic. Combined, you have 'mage who utilizes pictures'. If anything, it tells more about its job than 90% of the jobs in FF14 do with just its name.

An "artist" is already a thing. Alphinaud is referred to multiple times as being an artist. Since Pictomancer is a significantly different thing than an artist, it is better if these two different things are referred to with two different words.

Hmm, maybe.
But also definitely more boring.