Random thought: Why isn't the discount from moving houses 100%?

A lot of people don't want to buy smalls or mediums. My current ward has a lot of empty smalls, and most wards I look into seem to have quite a few even with the occasional medium.

Moving the housing discount on relocating from 20% or whatever it is to 100% would make more people feel comfortable purchasing something while waiting to get their large.

There might be more gil in-game for it because housing is supposed to be some sort of gil sink, but I don't think it would be that big of a deal?

Why does someone voluntarily relinquishing their plot entirely get no gil back at all when giving players a reason to give up their house would help with supply?

At least the 15% is more than players used to get back when they wanted to move to a different plot but relocation didn't exist. Don't forget that relocating also means not having to purchase a construction permit for the new plot (which would cost 3 million gil if they move to a large, or basically the amount not being applied toward relocation if they previously had a small).

It's hard to say what SE's thinking process was when setting the refund rules up, or whether they've had any internal discussions about those rules since the changes made to the purchase system.

Only getting 30% (pre-lottery refund amount) applied toward the purchase of the new plot was a deterrent to most players when it come to randomly relocating a plot for lulz before the lottery existed though it definitely did not stop everyone. Even with the lottery making it even more difficult to relocate now, having that deterrent still isn't necessarily a bad thing. It helps to keep the overall entry counts down for those trying to buy or genuinely interested in relocating.

If someone is uncomfortable about possibly losing about 3 million gil for purchasing a small if they later get a large, they probably should think twice about whether their goal should be a large. I think people forget how expensive furnishings will get. Some with a large is probably not interested in limiting themselves to the vendor furnishings that sell for 2k-11k gil each. Unless they want to spend about 100 hours gathering materials then making all their furnishings, they could easily spend close to the plot price to get a large decorated.

That's not to say that I don't think the refund policy doesn't need to be reviewed and revised. I just think that someone who thinks 3 million gil is a big deal is in over their head if they're trying to go after a large.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why does someone voluntarily relinquishing their plot entirely get no gil back at all when giving players a reason to give up their house would help with supply?

At least the 15% is more than players used to get back when they wanted to move to a different plot but relocation didn't exist. Don't forget that relocating also means not having to purchase a construction permit for the new plot (which would cost 3 million gil if they move to a large, or basically the amount not being applied toward relocation if they previously had a small).

It's hard to say what SE's thinking process was when setting the refund rules up, or whether they've had any internal discussions about those rules since the changes made to the purchase system.

Only getting 30% (pre-lottery refund amount) applied toward the purchase of the new plot was a deterrent to most players when it come to randomly relocating a plot for lulz before the lottery existed though it definitely did not stop everyone. Even with the lottery making it even more difficult to relocate now, having that deterrent still isn't necessarily a bad thing. It helps to keep the overall entry counts down for those trying to buy or genuinely interested in relocating.

If someone is uncomfortable about possibly losing about 3 million gil for purchasing a small if they later get a large, they probably should think twice about whether their goal should be a large. I think people forget how expensive furnishings will get. Some with a large is probably not interested in limiting themselves to the vendor furnishings that sell for 2k-11k gil each. Unless they want to spend about 100 hours gathering materials then making all their furnishings, they could easily spend close to the plot price to get a large decorated.

That's not to say that I don't think the refund policy doesn't need to be reviewed and revised. I just think that someone who thinks 3 million gil is a big deal is in over their head if they're trying to go after a large.

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I mean I don't think it's a big deal but empty smalls and at times empty mediums are an issue.

If you want we could add a full refund to voluntarily relinquishing your plot as well. I see no issues with that.

Encouraging people to relinquish plots without monetary consequences could free up housing, while giving a full refund on relocations would potentially help fill up empty smalls and mediums. It's not really that complicated.

I also feel as if this could help create a better mentality when approaching the lotto each week. Instead of a bunch of players immediately going for a large you might have some players settling down in smalls, working their way into meds that have lower amounts of lotto competitors, and then eventually working their way into a large.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

while giving a full refund on relocations would potentially help fill up empty smalls and mediums.

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Except relocation doesn't fill up empty smalls and mediums. It changes where the empty plots are located. It is new purchases that fill up the empty spaces.

There are far fewer players going immediately to a large than you think (especially since larges are rarely available). If you're looking at the entry counts on mediums and larges, very few of those are new owner bids. They're relocation bids. Most players are already doing what you suggest - getting any house they possibly can to start then entering to relocate when a plot they would like more becomes available. The lack of a full refund isn't holding them back because it's far too easy to make that gil back.

If you're thinking about how empty the wards are on Maduin, it's because Maduin has the lowest population among the NA worlds. There aren't enough level 50+ non-trial characters on Maduin yet to fill every available plot. Perhaps things will change after the Xbox beta starts (potentially end of next month) but more likely we won't see much difference until Dawntrail is about to release and players worried about release log in queues decide to transfer their characters.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except relocation doesn't fill up empty smalls and mediums. It changes where the empty plots are located. It is new purchases that fill up the empty spaces.

There are far fewer players going immediately to a large than you think (especially since larges are rarely available). If you're looking at the entry counts on mediums and larges, very few of those are new owner bids. They're relocation bids. Most players are already doing what you suggest - getting any house they possibly can to start then entering to relocate when a plot they would like more becomes available. The lack of a full refund isn't holding them back because it's far too easy to make that gil back.

If you're thinking about how empty the wards are on Maduin, it's because Maduin has the lowest population among the NA worlds. There aren't enough level 50+ non-trial characters on Maduin yet to fill every available plot. Perhaps things will change after the Xbox beta starts (potentially end of next month) but more likely we won't see much difference until Dawntrail is about to release and players worried about release log in queues decide to transfer their characters.

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You also imply Xbox players will chose a dead DC to play on.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

You also imply Xbox players will chose a dead DC to play on.

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You imply that they will have free choice of any world.

Right now 9 out of 28 NA worlds are on Congested status (5 of those are Aether). Once the Xbox beta starts, I'm sure more will be added (probably including the last 3 Aether worlds).The rest, outside of the Dynamis worlds, are Standard.

Even if a world is not Congested, it can be temporarily locked to character creation. Prior to Dynamis's addition to NA, it was not unusual for almost every NA world to be locked to character creation except during the very early morning hours (2 to 6am) when SE would have a roulette going of letting one or two worlds on each data center that weren't Congested be opened to character creation then switching the worlds available when server status was updated 20 minutes later.

If there is enough Xbox player interest in the game, chances are very good we'll see that same thing happening. In that case, they may not have any choice except to pick a Dynamis world. The bonuses that players can get for creating a character on a New world are fairly attractive to those with previous RPG experience and that becomes more incentive to pick the Dynamis world to start. After all, they can still use data center travel to get to the other data centers to play unless SE shuts that down.

Dynamis will get some new players from the Xbox beta. How many is going to depend on Xbox interest and the status of character creation on the other NA worlds. That why I used the word "Perhaps".

It could have been a discouragement for bots to buy up houses in the past, to resell it then. As you could make a deal with a player "I relinquish the plot, and you will buy it directly for xx millions gil". The bot would have made his initial investment back, which would have been riskfree to do. While normal players would have to suffer competing against bots on top of against other players. Though with the forced lottery systems now, it would seem not up to date anymore.

And well, imagine you want to have the gil back, you don't enter it for 45 days. It still means you gotta pay 2 subs before you finally have it, compared to only paying 1 sub.

As a sidenote, I think SE should start selling gil themselves, like WoW does with gold. Then implement a rent system to allow players to go beyond 45 days owning the plot, when they are offline. E.g. 1 million gil for a month for a small, 3 million for medium, 5million for large. People will buy gil from SE to keep their houses automatically, which is nicer than being forced to pay a sub to keep it. 45 days is really not enough...It should have been 90 at least, or the once promised "it will never be taken away, once you have bought it".

It's never going to be 100%. Not every plot is the same, as some are far more favorable than others.

Beachfront property VS Houses next to a Market board VS Houses next to a local Aetheryte. There are plenty of overlap in these areas, but these 3 sections (Plus general view from the plot) are the key features to a plots value.

And even then, it shouldn't be 100%. Because you moving to from Plot A to Plot B, you should get a discount for 'selling' Plot A and that immediately being sunk into purchasing of Plot B. But because a noticable amount of people decided to be antagonistic with the old system, YOU now have to win the Lottery system to relocate. Which means your chances are pretty much zero.

Lottery sounded plausible on paper but in reality it is completely demoralizing. Placard clicking gave someone the feeling of being in control. You could click inside of/outside of primetime for the plot you wanted. If you walked away, you knew you were not going to get it. The lottery system just makes you hang on for a week hoping. I would go back to the exhausting placard clicking any day. At least in that system, a house was never available for more than 24 hours.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

Lottery sounded plausible on paper but in reality it is completely demoralizing. Placard clicking gave someone the feeling of being in control. You could click inside of/outside of primetime for the plot you wanted. If you walked away, you knew you were not going to get it. The lottery system just makes you hang on for a week hoping. I would go back to the exhausting placard clicking any day. At least in that system, a house was never available for more than 24 hours.

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100% disagree. Placard spam was more wasteful of your time than anything Blizzard has ever done, and that's saying something. You spend 12 hours sitting there not playing the actual game only to lose to someone using an autoclicker. Lottery is both far more respectful to the playerbase, and doesn't give bots an advantage. It doesn't solve all the problems we have, but its a definite improvement.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

100% disagree. Placard spam was more wasteful of your time than anything Blizzard has ever done, and that's saying something. You spend 12 hours sitting there not playing the actual game only to lose to someone using an autoclicker. Lottery is both far more respectful to the playerbase, and doesn't give bots an advantage. It doesn't solve all the problems we have, but its a definite improvement.

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It was without question terrible. Read way to many posts of players dedicating a full day too clicking. Blowing off other activities they wanted to do. Just to lose the clicking game, and be stuck angry, tired and defeated.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

It was without question terrible. Read way to many posts of players dedicating a full day too clicking. Blowing off other activities they wanted to do. Just to lose the clicking game, and be stuck angry, tired and defeated.

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It was great if you followed the statistics for primetime and only put in a certain amount of time. The people ruining it were botters and people addicted to clicking for the entire period a house was available. Should SE have made availability statistics official knowledge? Yes. Lottery is just a boot in your face over and over and over and over... you never had to compete with 100+ people equally for a plot at a single time when placard clicking was a thing. I will gladly take that over lottery.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

It was great if you followed the statistics for primetime and only put in a certain amount of time. The people ruining it were botters and people addicted to clicking for the entire period a house was available. Should SE have made availability statistics official knowledge? Yes. Lottery is just a boot in your face over and over and over and over... you never had to compete with 100+ people equally for a plot at a single time when placard clicking was a thing. I will gladly take that over lottery.

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You hate competetion and fairness when it kills your odds..got it.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

The people ruining it were botters and people addicted to clicking for the entire period a house was available.

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And considering SE can't get rid of bots, and no-lifers aren't breaking TOS, it was hopeless for anyone who didn't want to spend 12 hours not playing the game.

Placard clicking wasnt that bad IF you participated the way it was intended. You see a plot? Check if you can buy. If no? Leave and come back in an hour or two to check again. And before anyone says anything, yes you could get a house this way. But is that what most people did? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And good luck telling someone theyre doing it wrong and getting them to listen.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Placard clicking wasnt that bad IF you participated the way it was intended. You see a plot? Check if you can buy. If no? Leave and come back in an hour or two to check again. And before anyone says anything, yes you could get a house this way. But is that what most people did? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And good luck telling someone theyre doing it wrong and getting them to listen.

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And back then price devaluation was still in place. If you checked the initial and current price for a plot you could tell if at least 24 hours had passed since the plot became available. You could look at the housing list at an aetheryte and go to a plot you knew had no remaining invisible timer because the maximum duration for the timer was 24 hours. I got a small house easily like this.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

Lottery sounded plausible on paper but in reality it is completely demoralizing. Placard clicking gave someone the feeling of being in control.

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The seaweed is truly always greener in somebody else's lake... :'D
What the heck are we supposed to do with "feeling of being in control"? Do you remember that anymore in 24 hours? Week?

I acquired plots under both systems. Only feeling I had in both cases was "oh, lucky me!".
I do not even care, but at this point I am about to lose my "whatever" attitude when it comes to instanced housing and lean to "just give it to these kids already, SE!"

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Originally Posted by Reinha

And back then price devaluation was still in place. If you checked the initial and current price for a plot you could tell if at least 24 hours had passed since the plot became available. You could look at the housing list at an aetheryte and go to a plot you knew had no remaining invisible timer because the maximum duration for the timer was 24 hours. I got a small house easily like this.

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Unfortunately that stopped being true for all NA worlds around patch 4.4 (and some like Balmung reached that point even sooner). World population and demand outstripped what little supply became available (especially when demoltion was suspended). Plots were usually sold before devaluation started and were definitely sold before they could devalue a second time. The one time past that point any NA worlds had plots devaluing was when wards 19-21 were added but limited to FC purchase only for several weeks. The day any left became available to private purchase, they all sold.

Things always go back to supply. It doesn't matter what system is in place if supply is inadequate compared to demand. There will always be a large number of players unhappy with the system.

the point of housing is to be a sink for gil to disappear

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

the point of housing is to be a sink for gil to disappear

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It does a poor job of it when players who are ready to spend their gil on the gil sink can't because there is nothing available to purchase. That goes for current house owners who want to relocate just as much as it does for players trying to get their first house. If the player can't buy the house, they're unlikely to be buying furnishings from the vendors as well.

If SE's primary intention for housing is to act as a gil sink, they're going about it the wrong way.

It's weird, that on newer servers we still have last 5 wards locked for like a year?

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Originally Posted by SiopeR

It's weird, that on newer servers we still have last 5 wards locked for like a year?

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SE wants the other wards to fill first before they open up the last 6. I don't know what the housing situation looks like on the 4 newest EU worlds but Dynamis still has plenty of smalls for players who want a house plus the occasional medium and even large showing up.

There's also been speculation that they've been holding those wards aside until after the Xbox beta starts so Xbox players will have a chance to get a house once they're far enough into the game to be eligible.

I imagine they'll open at least on the EU worlds by 7.05 if not all the worlds that still have those wards closed. World populations will greatly increase at expansion launch so demand will go up.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

SE wants the other wards to fill first before they open up the last 6. I don't know what the housing situation looks like on the 4 newest EU worlds but Dynamis still has plenty of smalls for players who want a house plus the occasional medium and even large showing up.

There's also been speculation that they've been holding those wards aside until after the Xbox beta starts so Xbox players will have a chance to get a house once they're far enough into the game to be eligible.

I imagine they'll open at least on the EU worlds by 7.05 if not all the worlds that still have those wards closed. World populations will greatly increase at expansion launch so demand will go up.

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Mao knows lots of peoples without houses whats wanting large or bust. This makes Mao sad because small house is good starter. If this happenings on new servers as well, is gonna be real headache tryings to get players and SE see eye to eye. May be lots wards on new servers whats not gettings filled for long time.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao knows lots of peoples without houses whats wanting large or bust. This makes Mao sad because small house is good starter. If this happenings on new servers as well, is gonna be real headache tryings to get players and SE see eye to eye. May be lots wards on new servers whats not gettings filled for long time.

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As someone that spends a LOT of time on Oceanic I feel that...

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

100% disagree. Placard spam was more wasteful of your time than anything Blizzard has ever done, and that's saying something. You spend 12 hours sitting there not playing the actual game only to lose to someone using an autoclicker. Lottery is both far more respectful to the playerbase, and doesn't give bots an advantage. It doesn't solve all the problems we have, but its a definite improvement.

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Agreed.

I'm lucky enough to have won a small house in a location I wanted. I never would've won one via the Placard clicking system.

Why the move needs to cost money? That one is easy.. to persuade people not to fool around by changing plots too often since that would put pressure on the servers.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

Why the move needs to cost money? That one is easy.. to persuade people not to fool around by changing plots too often since that would put pressure on the servers.

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We have a housing lottery every week, roughly the same number of people are going to either move plots or move in every week. I don't know what this has to do with server pressure.

hmm you have a point, its prolly better to have people relocate daily then having spikes of several people doing it at the same time xD

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Originally Posted by SXTC

hmm you have a point, its prolly better to have people relocate daily then having spikes of several people doing it at the same time xD

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https://media2.giphy.com/media/VM01S...=200w.gif&ct=g

dude is out here talking about server space due to the relocations that happen on lottery result day as if it's like a massive overload on the servers

and this is the person who is giving us the solutions for housing yall, rejoice lmao

Lol they always had a percentage refunded to you if you relocate. The total depends on the plot price itself.

I believe only way you get full refund is if you transfer to a preferred or was it new world.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

Why the move needs to cost money? That one is easy.. to persuade people not to fool around by changing plots too often since that would put pressure on the servers.

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I see you lack any knowledge. It dont put pressure on servers. The people who "fooled" around moving plots are the ones who frankly caused the change to how housing works.

People would purposely move to a plot people want to troll them.

When the fix came in for lottery. The first one had same trolls getting plots then vacating them or hopping worlds putting them back into the lottery loop.

What has caused people not to fool around anymore is the fact the devs got smart and made it so if you won a plot and didn't take it, you lost half your gil.

Not to mention with everyone wanting mediums and larges. The sheer amount that would put in bids would lessen your chance.

The servers don't actually have issues unless someone ddos a world to crashing or if we close to a patch.

Otherwise, they are generally super quick on fixing stuff because we pay a sub.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Lol they always had a percentage refunded to you if you relocate. The total depends on the plot price itself.

I believe only way you get full refund is if you transfer to a preferred or was it new world.

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That's a tiny bit misleading. Relocation didn't exist until Stormblood. Before that if you wanted to relocate, you had to relinquish the current plot (with zero refund) and take your chances on buying the plot you wanted before someone else did.

But once relocation was added, there was the "discount" applied toward the purchase of the plot where you relocated. Originally it was 30% of the price paid for the original plot (because of the old price reduction system). There was no actual refund as such - you could basically relocate from large to small for free but you wouldn't get any gil back for the difference between the small price and the 30% of the original large purchase price.

Correct that the only way to get a full refund is to transfer from a non-New world to a New world, or transfer from a Congested world to a Preferred world.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That's a tiny bit misleading. Relocation didn't exist until Stormblood. Before that if you wanted to relocate, you had to relinquish the current plot (with zero refund) and take your chances on buying the plot you wanted before someone else did.

But once relocation was added, there was the "discount" applied toward the purchase of the plot where you relocated. Originally it was 30% of the price paid for the original plot (because of the old price reduction system). There was no actual refund as such - you could basically relocate from large to small for free but you wouldn't get any gil back for the difference between the small price and the 30% of the original large purchase price.

Correct that the only way to get a full refund is to transfer from a non-New world to a New world, or transfer from a Congested world to a Preferred world.

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Oops thank you for the correction on the relocation thing but the rest of what I said still stands.

I want a medium, there are jsut no private ones available on my server.
And the ones that have been recently are FC only (which is surprising imo) as well as cesspools bc they're surrounded by hingan houses dyed horrendous colors.
So, while I really want a medium, I also want players who have good decor sense to occupy the surrounding plots lol

While lottery feels unfair bc everyone who tried for a house deserves the plot they want and shouldn't have to settle, Lotto is way better than having to sit there and spammed a placard for hours, only to lose to a bot that has a clicking macro.
I do think the lotto should be updated that allows us to pick up our gil at a retainer or Mog mail; instead of having to go all the way back to the placard.

As far as the old system, We've all seen and heard the stories.
Well, here's mine:
Back when placard spam was a thing, the house I went for and won had two bots also going for it- I somehow beat them out and only had to wait two hours for the plot to be available.
Hours after I won the plot, the bots were still there, clicking on my placard. I reported them, took screens, jotted down the local time of how long they were there and everything but I doubt anything was ever done.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I want a medium, there are jsut no private ones available on my server.
And the ones that have been recently are FC only (which is surprising imo) as well as cesspools bc they're surrounded by hingan houses dyed horrendous colors.
So, while I really want a medium, I also want players who have good decor sense to occupy the surrounding plots lol

While lottery feels unfair bc everyone who tried for a house deserves the plot they want and shouldn't have to settle, Lotto is way better than having to sit there and spammed a placard for hours, only to lose to a bot that has a clicking macro.
I do think the lotto should be updated that allows us to pick up our gil at a retainer or Mog mail; instead of having to go all the way back to the placard.

As far as the old system, We've all seen and heard the stories.
Well, here's mine:
Back when placard spam was a thing, the house I went for and won had two bots also going for it- I somehow beat them out and only had to wait two hours for the plot to be available.
Hours after I won the plot, the bots were still there, clicking on my placard. I reported them, took screens, jotted down the local time of how long they were there and everything but I doubt anything was ever done.

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Be careful, else you'll summon ''transfer to the new datacenter with 1000+ free houses <.>''

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

Hours after I won the plot, the bots were still there, clicking on my placard. I reported them, took screens, jotted down the local time of how long they were there and everything but I doubt anything was ever done.

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Oof, an opportunity to sell cheap items to them for millions of gil with an outdoor retainer, as they automatically click to buy. :D I wish I could've done that.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Oof, an opportunity to sell cheap items to them for millions of gil with an outdoor retainer, as they automatically click to buy. :D I wish I could've done that.

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Not that they monitor the forums whatsoever, but be careful that you don't encourage anything that violates TOS. I believe there was an incident about this a while back but I can't remember/find the specifics.

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Originally Posted by Kaiproberts

Not that they monitor the forums whatsoever, but be careful that you don't encourage anything that violates TOS. I believe there was an incident about this a while back but I can't remember/find the specifics.

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I don't see how selling items to a botter would violate the TOS. It's their choice to use a program to buy the items.

In any case I couldn't encourage it if I wanted to now that botting housing is impossible. I simply find it admirable that people used to do that.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Oof, an opportunity to sell cheap items to them for millions of gil with an outdoor retainer, as they automatically click to buy. :D I wish I could've done that.

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I was fairly new at the time & wasn't aware you could do that until much later- it's a brilliant idea