(Be aware, while this is talking about a scene from Shadowbringers' patches, it's largely in context of information from Endwalker's patches, so spoiler warning on that.)
Taking the information we have now that Venat's group of Ancients became who we'd know as The Twelve, I had a thought to review the recording of that group in Anamnesis Anyder. While they're all physically in the scene, only three characters speak: Venat, The Watcher (called 'Diplomatic Ancient One' in the scene)...
And this one.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...4188/image.png
They actually do a pretty important job of setting the scene around the meeting, this isn't just some do-nothing NPC. For reference, their full textbox (and immediate surrounding dialog just for context):
So not only are they the one that tells us that the Convocation aren't listening, they're also apparently the one that brings the news that Azem's not answering. And this is one of the Twelve.Quote:
Diplomatic Ancient One: By the summoning of Zodiark have we been granted a reprieve. Yet immutable as the laws He has woven may seem, they will not serve to forestall our doom.
Distressed Ancient One: Nay. Should we continue down this path, our fate will be the same.
I said as much to the Convocation, of course, but the stubborn fools turned a deaf ear to my warnings.
I had hoped that the defector, at least, would side with us, but I regret to report our overtures have gone unanswered.
Whither tend your thoughts, Venat? Where you lead, we will follow.
Venat: I shall not speak ill of the Convocation─they too seek only to secure the future of our star.
So... who is it?
A few thoughts from both my own musings and what other people have said when I put it forward:
+Thaliak, being the headmaster of Akadaemia, has both the position and skillset to be able to give a statement to the Convocation even if they're being stubborn... and is also the type to call them 'stubborn fools'.
+Halone, being in the running for the seat of Pashtarot, might be able to tweak a few ears and also has that sort of vocabulary.
+If anyone's going to be hearing from Azem besides Venat, it's probably Azeyma.
+It sounds frustrated enough to be Byregot, who's probably also of a position high enough to get a word in.
-It sounds too rude to be Menphina or Nophica.
-It sounds too nice to be Llymlaen.
Those are all ultimately my vibes, though, and I might be reading the tone of both those lines and the surrounding situation very differently to others.
Who is the Distressed Ancient One?
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12-11-2023, 09:25 PMClereticWho is the Distressed Ancient One?
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12-12-2023, 12:24 AMCarin-Eri
Edited - misread part of the OP
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12-12-2023, 05:55 AMCarin-Eri
Azeyma does make the most sense, being that (as an Ancient) she was a judicial officer in the Bureau of the Administrator, wanted Venat to train her, and was said to be a proponent of the seat of Azem.
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12-12-2023, 10:25 AMClereticThe reason I was hesitant about Azeyma was that it doesn't seem like her choice of language as we've met her, but as someone else pointed out to me, she was a cop at this point. Out of all the Twelve, it makes the most sense that she'd be putting on a different, more hardnosed face in a time of crisis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carin-Eri
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12-19-2023, 03:21 PMAneshda
My guess is Elidibus. He left Zodirak to mediate between the groups.
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12-19-2023, 05:02 PMYuella"Distressed Ancient One: Nay. Should we continue down this path, our fate will be the same." Elidibus would not have said this. He believed that Zodiark is enough to save the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneshda
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12-19-2023, 05:12 PMClereticHe also wouldn't have called his coworkers stubborn fools. (Weirdly, he might be the only Convocation member who wouldn't use that language, but we mostly only knew them as very grumpy, bitter Ascians; maybe Nabriales was nicer back then.) Or have shown such immediate faith to say 'where you go, we will follow'. ...And we know that his relative shortness actually does reflect in the ween-woon ghost apparitions, while this Ancient is the same height as everyone around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuella
There's just no evidence at all to say that Elidibus was even there, and basically negative evidence that he'd say any of that, specifically. -
12-19-2023, 06:06 PMTiramu
Is it possible to put an EW patch spoiler note on this?
Thats a pretty huge spoiler in your OP and this could be assumes to be E/O ShB. -
12-19-2023, 09:06 PMClereticI'll add it, but I do kinda feel like this is the most inherently 'sprout-unfriendly' part of the forums anyway. Like, I only have to go one page back to find a thread whose very title is a spoiler (and that page has at least two of them, possibly three), and I've definitely seen the subforum be worse than that. I feel like at best, wanting spoiler warnings might be an uphill battle, and at worst might be actively detrimental; a lot of conversations that go on here would just be so much harder to have if you're trying to be conscious not to spoil stuff, in courtesy to an audience of people still playing through the MSQ that... honestly, I don't know are really around to a meaningful degree. I think I've only ever seen one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiramu
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12-19-2023, 10:56 PMEloah
The only thing that we can be certain of, is that it isn't Oschon, as he wasn't from Amaurot, and isn't in that cutscene.
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12-19-2023, 11:39 PMSannaR
I think it would be funny if it had been Byregot. He would certainly would have been close enough to fit. And I would agree to a spoiler if this was in the general section. The lore section is more like a discord's spoiler section. That and these forums are trick some beasts when it comes to titles. Where they don't offer a way to change said thread title.
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12-20-2023, 12:39 AMVeritas-Ancora
It's probably Azeyma, it feels like her personality. It's fiery.
Thaliak is possible but I don't think he ever referred to people as fools, despite him being the knowledge guy. I agree that his position would have him close at Akademia and therefore the Convocation.
But Azeyma aspired to train under Venat, and her creator was a judicial officer for the Bureau of the Administrator, which makes even more sense if she was willing to follow Venat to the ends.
I'm not sure we're ever going to find out unless an Encyclopedia Eorzea comes out with the gods being clarified on their positions and who they were prior to the Sundering. -
12-20-2023, 09:48 AMClereticUnfortunately, the EE3 hasn't gotten to me yet, so I can't check if they did there! (I suspect they didn't, though, or I would've heard by now.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
And on thinking about it, the thing that gives me hesitance about the call that this is Azeyma--even if I still largely think it fits here, it's more a yellow flag than a red one--is the use of the term 'the defector'. Azeyma idolized the seat of Azem; would she be so impersonal as to just call Azem 'the defector'? I don't think that's impossible, but it would certainly imply an interesting relationship and internal thought process. -
12-29-2023, 11:39 PMLilah_Raeforza
This is pretty much just going off of vibes, but my bet's on the Distressed Ancient One being Halone. Their dialogue in that scene gives off the air of someone who is used to dealing with problems head-on, as we know Halone to have done in her role as a warrior eliminating dangerous creations. The words used in this dialogue are just sharp enough while still being restrained, to feel like they're said by a fighter rather than a scholar or judicial officer - including the line about "the defector". From what I recall, while Halone and Azem were likely known to each other, I don't think they were necessarily well acquainted, which makes the impersonal wording seem to fit well. Like I said, very vibes-based, but that's my take. Hope to see you make a video about this if we find out for sure ;)