Graphics Update Discussion

Hi! :)

Just wanted to make a general post about the graphics updates announced and shown off. I'm reeeally excited for this given how old the game is and wondering who else is super excited for this aspect come 7.0? There was a comment by a player on another website(sorry can't give him credit he deserves) that stated that the devs are moving to a PBR system that could allow for ray-tracing support in the future for consoles/PC's that are capable of running it and THAT really excited me given that Yoshi and the team most likely will drop PS4 support come around 8.0. It also got me wondering in addition to lighting and graphics updates what they might tackle if they drop PS4 support eventually? Maybe increased physics with hair, cloth, running, animations, etc? Maybe finally strip away instanced zones and have a true open MMORPG due to SSD capabilities in PS5 and PC's? Maybe we can get better waves/ocean physics. I wouldn't expect TOO much regarding these but improvements definitely. I really hope they continue to improve on the game to make it fresh for a long time since there's no announcement to move to a new MMO(RPG) type game. Some pics that really impressed me are below.

https://images.mmorpg.com/images/con...screenshot.jpg -> LOVE the male on the left, the detail in the facial crevices, the hair looks thin and realistic, and the eyes are so intense! Not so happy with the female on the right, lacks a lot of the details shown in the male.

https://www.destructoid.com/wp-conte...mparison-2.png -> I was BLOWN away by this, how much detail and difference the gold metalics present. I remember when this launched how dry and stale this environment looked, WOW!

https://media.mmorpg.com/images/heroes/posts/128575.jpg -> The male on the left, WOW! Look at the glossiness of the horns, the shadows on his face, it looks SO much better! Very exciting! :D

Here's some more I thought were exciting!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F89Cko1b...jpg&name=large -> Aside from how much more dense they can make forests/foliage, is it just me or is the geometry/cliffs in the back a lot more detailed with more polygons?

https://novacrystallis.com/wp-conten...1-1024x576.jpg -> The fix in the foliage/flowers PLUS the volumetric fog looks so beautiful! More akin to the original artwork conception!

https://static.fanbyte.com/uploads/2...hot-000041.jpg -> This to me still has to be my favorite one shown off. The one on the right to me looks almost like CGI, the cartilage in the ears, the eyes just glow and even the black bow looks like it's made of silk, LOVE IT!

https://static.fanbyte.com/uploads/2...te%20armor.png -> This is gonna make a MASSIVE difference when we can see the reflections react in the light in motion moreso than just what it looks like in the picture, I'm excited and I don't even play Paladin! :D

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NrZNPG0.png[/IMG] -> I can't wait to see how the crystal tower will look updated with these materials!!!

It's alright. I don't zoom in to anyone's face close enough to ever see the difference there, so all I really care about is the lighting and environment textures.

I've also seen how wrong a graphics update can go with PSO2, so I hope they have their ducks in a row before pulling the trigger

You can go over the character limit by editing your post, so in the future you can write a long post- copy it (perhaps paste it somewhere safe) and then make it small for the purpose of posting, post it, and then edit it and paste the full intended text. That's how you can see insanely long walls like this: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Other-MMOs%29. For the image thing, make sure it's not in a [url][/ url] box. So just [img] imglinkehere.jpg [/ img]. I put a space in so they don't think it's actually code.

I like the graphics update. Quite a few images I can immediately see a difference, which is cool.

I hope we can see some shader improvements related to weather (I know fog has been improved) and water. Would be nice to get some better looking water. If snow would properly crunch, and rain could 'roll' in, etc. Item specific- It was mentioned recently in another thread, but if they could add tail and ear designs to gear, at least the major ones, that would be really cool. For example any PvP, shop, or such gear that is meant to be 'timeless'. Naturally everything would be preferred but if there was bias I'd take that too lol.

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Originally Posted by PEANUT

stated that the devs are moving to a PBR system that could allow for ray-tracing support in the future for consoles/PC's that are capable of running it

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I read a convincing article that said this game will never support Ray Tracing and the reason is because it uses reflective lighting. What that means is that colors are decided by the lighting, so if you think that colors look washed out, it is actually because they sometimes do in real life as well due to the lighting.

For example, if you go to the character creator and look at your character's skin or eyes, you will notice they change color a lot depending on the background you choose and that is an example of the reflective lighting the game uses.

Environments are literally a different color depending on the lighting and SE spends a huge amount of development time on the lighting just to make the color look how they want. How do I know that? They did a development panel at one of the Shadowbringers fanfests where they showed how they made environments such as The Crystarium and Amh Araeng and the extensive work put into the lighting.

This extends into the gear design, where they will only use certain colors for gear because some colors, or color combinations, don't work.

So if they went with Ray Tracing to handle everything, suddenly years of work and effort put into designing the game for their lighting system would potentially have to be revisited to make it look good with Ray Tracing.

I'm not looking forward to it only because I might have to buy the game and expansions on my PS5 because my PC just isn't up to snuff. I will wait and see though. If a GTX 1070 and i5-4670k can still do higher than 30 fps, then I'll be happy.

The more I see about it the more excited I get. I was fully expecting them to just run the textures through an upscaler and call it a day but all the ones they've shown so far have been completely remade which is insane.

The thing I'm looking forward to the most however is the added object density in zones. The forest actually looks like a forest now and not three trees and a shrub. I can't wait to see how they update the older zones and cities!

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

The more I see about it the more excited I get. I was fully expecting them to just run the textures through an upscaler and call it a day but all the ones they've shown so far have been completely remade which is insane.

The thing I'm looking forward to the most however is the added object density in zones. The forest actually looks like a forest now and not three trees and a shrub. I can't wait to see how they update the older zones and cities!

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not to put a damper on things but they'll probably be just the 1.0 cities now that we have machine strong enough to display them in their proper glory instead of the sad versions we have now.
for those unaware: in 1.0 (before ARR) things like flower pots had similar amounts of polygons as player characters and would cause even the best computers to grind to a halt.
https://files.catbox.moe/5nojyb.jpg
that aurum vale update we got? they basically just used a bunch of 1.0 assets to make it closer to the original version (which iirc was actually directly attached to dezamel darkhold?)

The one that really blew my mind is the shot of Sharlayan during foggy weather. My issue with what they've shown so far is that it can be sorta hard to tell what's changed. What I really want to see at JP fanfest is some just raw gameplay of someone running around a zone in the current graphics and the exact same video with the upgraded graphics. Or better yet, show a pre graphics update trial and that same trial post graphics update.

Do we know if things like face paint options are also getting touched up? I would really hope so, because it's going to be very jarring on player faces if they aren't.

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Originally Posted by LioJen

It's alright. I don't zoom in to anyone's face close enough to ever see the difference there, so all I really care about is the lighting and environment textures.

I've also seen how wrong a graphics update can go with PSO2, so I hope they have their ducks in a row before pulling the trigger

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I agree with you. Everything I've seen so far is just.... underwhelming.

For such a huge increase in requirements, I'm expecting some major improvements. If I have to squint to see the differences, then the requirements should have stayed where they were. You can't tell me that PlayStation users have to go from a PS4 to a PS5 just to get brighter eyes on their character and a very very minor hair difference. That's asking a lot.

No, I'm not bitter because I don't want to spend the money- I'm running a PC that already exceeds the recommended hardware. I upgraded for Flight Simulator 2020 and Hogwarts Legacy.

The updates in this game just aren't that noticeable. I hope they get better. It'll seem a bit unfair to the player base if they don't.

If you have to squint to see the differences in what they've shown so far please schedule an appointment with your local optometrist immediately.

The differences include textures raising to 1080p (you know, how even in the latest custom delivery area, the textures in Labyrinthos have some pixelated areas). That itself is not anything special but it will remove a lot of the random low quality stuff that we see.

The material will look more realistic, more lights can be added to display more of what is already there, more objects can be added for detail (such as boxes, pipes and other detail), shadow rendering will be longer and shaders are being improved which is what will make one of the greatest impacts, because shaders are what make use of your GPU's modern capabilities.

It is pretty accurate to say that characters aren't changing much other than a slight shader improvement and 1080p textures and that's because they can't anticipate how many players will be in one area at the same time, so they have to change them with the assumption that a massive crowd of players is present with these changes (they showed in one of the developer panels a huge army of characters in their test environment). With everything else, such as the areas, they can set hard limits on how much they do certain things so that it doesn't exceed their Recommended specs. Other than that, they don't want to spoil the image you have of your character, so if they made it look realistic, you might be attached to how it currently looks.

So you're going to have to focus on improvements to things that aren't the player character in any future graphic updates tbh.

I'm not sure how excited to be because I'll still be playing on PS4 come 7.0 and I am not sure if it will support the graphics update, and it's also difficult to justify the purchase of new hardware when I don't play much games outside XIV and the few I have for my Switch. However, I have thought about getting a PS5 for the short load in times alone. Load in times on PS4 are atrociously slow.

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Originally Posted by Denji

that aurum vale update we got? they basically just used a bunch of 1.0 assets to make it closer to the original version (which iirc was actually directly attached to dezamel darkhold?)

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Were Aurum Vale and Dzemael both on the same map, or was Dzemael much bigger previously? I previously noticed that there seem to be more locations sketched out on the dungeon map some distance from the parts that you visit.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm not sure how excited to be because I'll still be playing on PS4 come 7.0 and I am not sure if it will support the graphics update, and it's also difficult to justify the purchase of new hardware when I don't play much games outside XIV and the few I have for my Switch. However, I have thought about getting a PS5 for the short load in times alone. Load in times on PS4 are atrociously slow.

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If you feel comfortable doing it I imagine you could upgrade the PS4 SSD for a few extra seconds, just googled it for the first link but it seems fair: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/upgrade...%20your%20SSD.

Fraction of the cost, though if you know you will get value out of the PS5 may as well.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Were Aurum Vale and Dzemael both on the same map, or was Dzemael much bigger previously? I previously noticed that there seem to be more locations sketched out on the dungeon map some distance from the parts that you visit.

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It's been a very, very long time but I think they were both one single dungeon if I recall correctly.
Also thousand maws was an end-game dungeon.

...

It was weird.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If you feel comfortable doing it I imagine you could upgrade the PS4 SSD for a few extra seconds, just googled it for the first link but it seems fair: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/upgrade...%20your%20SSD.

Fraction of the cost, though if you know you will get value out of the PS5 may as well.

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Thanks! This is very helpful and I will definitely keep it in mind.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I'm not looking forward to it only because I might have to buy the game and expansions on my PS5 because my PC just isn't up to snuff. I will wait and see though. If a GTX 1070 and i5-4670k can still do higher than 30 fps, then I'll be happy.

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Similar situation here. Despite my laptop exceeding minimum specs (at around recommended), it struggles with some content, Rabanastre can be barely playable.

So, I hope it doesnt push it up too much, or we can tone stuff down. Its mainly the OTT particle effects and shadow casting in some areas that can cause problems for me.

I'm playing on a 2020 Macbook, so its not like its an old or bottom market laptop either.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

Similar situation here. Despite my laptop exceeding minimum specs (at around recommended), it struggles with some content, Rabanastre can be barely playable.

So, I hope it doesnt push it up too much, or we can tone stuff down. Its mainly the OTT particle effects and shadow casting in some areas that can cause problems for me.

I'm playing on a 2020 Macbook, so its not like its an old or bottom market laptop either.

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Lol, I'm sorry but since you mentioned Mac book gaming I have to ask if you've seen the viva la dirt league videos... :D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYv3-HfRNcA

Graphic warning (blood/violence):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0M_UEXvJu5U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GCrfWmaBy6k


Being more serious though, hopefully there will be good scaling options for everyone :). I remember playing FFXI on a laptop (PC) way way way back, it was like 5 fps... Good times haha.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

The one that really blew my mind is the shot of Sharlayan during foggy weather. My issue with what they've shown so far is that it can be sorta hard to tell what's changed. What I really want to see at JP fanfest is some just raw gameplay of someone running around a zone in the current graphics and the exact same video with the upgraded graphics. Or better yet, show a pre graphics update trial and that same trial post graphics update.

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That fog screenshot was really beautiful. If anyone would like to look or refresh their memories: Updated Fog in Sharlayan from EU Fan Fest

Same wishes to see the new environments live, especially in the underlit areas like Ultima Thule, overlit ones like Mt. Gulg, and lush green ones like Island Sanctuary. Please show the extreme cases of environments where the lighting update is welcome for the eye ease: little light, a lot of light, a lot of a single bright color.

I wonder if the crystal texture update will also apply to environments like the lvl 89 dungeon, or p9.

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Originally Posted by Denji

It's been a very, very long time but I think they were both one single dungeon if I recall correctly.

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No, AV and DD were never the same dungeon.

As for the graphical update itself, I'm just gonna quote myself:

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

One of my main complaints about XIV's graphics, besides lighting has always been the awful implementation of FXAA as the sole solution for antialiasing in the game, and after watching the Keynote from EU, I'm a bit concerned.

FXAA is an (ancient) post processing solution that's just not very good at handling jaggies. You know how stairs look all jagged and flickery? That's FXAA unable to properly treat the image:

https://imgur.com/PxEnimK.png
https://imgur.com/Q2QZyeA.png

This image is from the EU Fanfest keynote:
https://imgur.com/0qhOWmC.png

And if you take a look to the right:
https://imgur.com/KsU4qZ0.png

The steps are a jagged mess, and so are the tracks and boards on the platform on the right side of the image. This isn't game breaking, but it's the kind of thing that once you see, you can't unsee. This is also just not enough for what's being sold to us as a major graphics update that's supposed to last for another ten years at the minimum. FXAA is 14 years old at this point time, and it's just good enough for modern games.

What we need:
- More options for native resolutions such as MSAA and TAA
- Implementation of FSR, DLSS and XeSS

Though FSR, DLSS and XeSS are meant as upscalers, their AA treatment is just vastly superior to FXAA, not to mention these upscalers are just good to have to play on higher resolutions while keeping performance.

I'm very excited for the graphical update, but the current state of AA shown in it so far is just very lacking, and I hope something can be done about it in time for release.

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Shaders are easily where the game can see the most increase in visual quality for the least amount of work-- and I'm happy to see the progress they've made with them.

Outside of a critical need for AA, I hope they also touch on the landscape shaders. Specifically, I'd like see texture bombing-- essentially randomization to break up the repeating nature of the textures. This would do wonders for a lot of the older areas, and the best part is that it's possible without having to modify any of the existing assets.

As far as dreaming goes, I've also seen some claims in this thread that ray-tracing would not fit this game for multiple aesthetic reasons, but I don't believe that is true. IMO ray-tracing would do wonders both for reflections and for global-illumination, where the bounce lighting can affect colors.

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Originally Posted by DaRealSlarkShady

Shaders are easily where the game can see the most increase in visual quality for the least amount of work-- and I'm happy to see the progress they've made with them.

Outside of a critical need for AA, I hope they also touch on the landscape shaders. Specifically, I'd like see texture bombing-- essentially randomization to break up the repeating nature of the textures. This would do wonders for a lot of the older areas, and the best part is that it's possible without having to modify any of the existing assets.

As far as dreaming goes, I've also seen some claims in this thread that ray-tracing would not fit this game for multiple aesthetic reasons, but I don't believe that is true. IMO ray-tracing would do wonders both for reflections and for global-illumination, where the bounce lighting can affect colors.

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I want to see Mor Dhona with ray tracing ...haha. The new can it run Crysis moment, those reflections would be something :)

In general locations I'm sure it could add a lot of value (and for crystal heavy areas they can find solutions to clamp potential chaos).

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Originally Posted by DaRealSlarkShady

I've also seen some claims in this thread that ray-tracing would not fit this game for multiple aesthetic reasons, but I don't believe that is true. IMO ray-tracing would do wonders both for reflections and for global-illumination, where the bounce lighting can affect colors.

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Well the development panel they went over their work on lighting was at https://www.twitch.tv/videos/400283650?t=00h16m59s

Ray-tracing could require a lot of work to the game because it has been designed around the current lighting system and it means going and adjusting all their current lights.

That and would ray-tracing produce the colors that they want ie. the color scheme they have for Ahm Araeng in different weather that they worked hard on? You can see the points they made about this in slide1 and slide2.

Ooo ty! I was trying to get that to work to have the actual images pop up that I enjoyed the most! I'll try that! :D

YES! Improvements to weather for sure!! Especially when it comes to physics with foliage in windy areas, improvements to snow and such! I would really hope they would in the future when they drop PS4 support (consensus is they will according to most people lol) that they do something similar with character faces where they increase the polygon count on all geometry to an extent. I saw in the latest Fanfest that there is a new tech to make all the characters share the same amount of polygons for uniformity and it just conforms to each of their faces for performance stabilization. I would like to see this as well with the geometry to hopefully get more detail in the environments(again not expecting UE5 quality or miracles but improvements nonetheless). Mix that with improvements in weather and maybe enable ray-tracing if your system supports it and WOW! What a DIFFERENCE that would make!! :D

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I read a convincing article that said this game will never support Ray Tracing and the reason is because it uses reflective lighting. What that means is that colors are decided by the lighting, so if you think that colors look washed out, it is actually because they sometimes do in real life as well due to the lighting.

For example, if you go to the character creator and look at your character's skin or eyes, you will notice they change color a lot depending on the background you choose and that is an example of the reflective lighting the game uses.

Environments are literally a different color depending on the lighting and SE spends a huge amount of development time on the lighting just to make the color look how they want. How do I know that? They did a development panel at one of the Shadowbringers fanfests where they showed how they made environments such as The Crystarium and Amh Araeng and the extensive work put into the lighting.

This extends into the gear design, where they will only use certain colors for gear because some colors, or color combinations, don't work.

So if they went with Ray Tracing to handle everything, suddenly years of work and effort put into designing the game for their lighting system would potentially have to be revisited to make it look good with Ray Tracing.

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I don't mean to argue in any rude way please understand, but I think this is what they are changing? The PBR system will make it so that they don't do this anymore and instead will have a physical based renderer that interacts with lighting where they don't manually adjust colors and such to "make them look good in different lighting situations" so to speak. And if I'm true, in the future that would help for the PBR to interact with ray-traced lighting naturally to greatly improve image quality without that extra work.

I would really enjoy that as well!!!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm not sure how excited to be because I'll still be playing on PS4 come 7.0 and I am not sure if it will support the graphics update, and it's also difficult to justify the purchase of new hardware when I don't play much games outside XIV and the few I have for my Switch. However, I have thought about getting a PS5 for the short load in times alone. Load in times on PS4 are atrociously slow.

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I will say, when I upgraded to PS5, the UI switch alone on the PS5 from the PS4 is night and day. It's sooooo smooth and fast and beautiful, I was literally like "How they heck did I play on this potato of a console this long?!?" It's definitely worth the upgrade, especially since they revamped it and it's smaller now too and doesn't take up as much room :D You also have a lot of time to upgrade if you choose to since 7.0 doesn't come out till I think June of next year.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I wonder if the crystal texture update will also apply to environments like the lvl 89 dungeon, or p9.

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True! I wonder if it'll apply to a major area like the Crystal Tower? That would REAAAALLY stand out incredibly if it does! :D

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

No, AV and DD were never the same dungeon.

As for the graphical update itself, I'm just gonna quote myself:

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Very good point! I have heard others complain about this as well, it doesn't bother me PERSONALLY, but might if I play this in higher res. I'm on board for doing the most possible to make this game shine!

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Originally Posted by DaRealSlarkShady

Shaders are easily where the game can see the most increase in visual quality for the least amount of work-- and I'm happy to see the progress they've made with them.

Outside of a critical need for AA, I hope they also touch on the landscape shaders. Specifically, I'd like see texture bombing-- essentially randomization to break up the repeating nature of the textures. This would do wonders for a lot of the older areas, and the best part is that it's possible without having to modify any of the existing assets.

As far as dreaming goes, I've also seen some claims in this thread that ray-tracing would not fit this game for multiple aesthetic reasons, but I don't believe that is true. IMO ray-tracing would do wonders both for reflections and for global-illumination, where the bounce lighting can affect colors.

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1000%!!! The older areas have been explored countless times so that sounds like it would really help to improve not just graphical quality but the repetitiveness of these areas where we have to go back to for story content and side quests over and over.

I also am 1000% onboard for wanting ray-tracing. I keep thinking of when ray-tracing got implemented in Minecraft which is also an extremely old game and how much that alone improved the graphical quality. It would help with showing off more colors as you have said, but also helps with reflections as well which really amplify materials and bring more realism in water and such.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You can go over the character limit by editing your post, so in the future you can write a long post- copy it (perhaps paste it somewhere safe) and then make it small for the purpose of posting, post it, and then edit it and paste the full intended text. That's how you can see insanely long walls like this: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Other-MMOs%29. For the image thing, make sure it's not in a [url][/ url] box. So just [img] imglinkehere.jpg [/ img]. I put a space in so they don't think it's actually code.

I like the graphics update. Quite a few images I can immediately see a difference, which is cool.

I hope we can see some shader improvements related to weather (I know fog has been improved) and water. Would be nice to get some better looking water. If snow would properly crunch, and rain could 'roll' in, etc. Item specific- It was mentioned recently in another thread, but if they could add tail and ear designs to gear, at least the major ones, that would be really cool. For example any PvP, shop, or such gear that is meant to be 'timeless'. Naturally everything would be preferred but if there was bias I'd take that too lol.

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Oh awesome, didn't know that, thank you! :D