Grammar mistake in Lv40 White Mage quest text

In the dialogue before receiving the level 40 White Mage quest (Lost in Rage), Raya-O-Senna says, "The elementals indulge we Gridanians in many and more ways..."

However, if the intent of the sentence is that the elementals are indulging Gridanians, and Raya-O-Senna is among those Gridanians, the proper grammar for the phrase would be "The elementals indulge us Gridanians..." because "us" is the object, and "Gridanians" is merely modifying/clarifying the pronoun. Without "Gridanians," saying "The elementals indulge we" is obviously incorrect. Although "we" may sound fancier in context, it's in the nominative case and therefore incorrect when used as the object of a verb.

If there's some obscure/archaic grammatical rule of which I'm unaware which allows this sort of thing, I apologize for the unnecessary nitpicking :o I'd just hate for such an important, presumably well-educated young lady to have that kind of grammatical slip-up in her speech. It's kind of like the people who say, "with ___ and I," thinking it sounds smarter, when really it's just wrong. Anyway, sorry for the mini-rant/grammar lesson! I've included a picture of the offending text below:

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...St8j5yBjtQ.jpg

It is, in fact, a somewhat archaic but entirely legitimate grammatical construction. See also: "We the people of the United States" for a somewhat prominent example. ;) Also "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" from Henry V.

"The elements indulge us" would be proper if the context for 'us' referring to the Gridanians had been established, but "we Gridanians" is actually the most correct way of phrasing that; 'us Gridanians' might have slipped into proper usage in the intervening centuries, but to my ears it sounds... like something you'd expect a Limsa Lominsan to say, really.

I don't think Teakwood's examples are appropriate, since all of his "we" examples use we as the subject of the sentence, whereas "we Gridanians" is the predicate object. "We" is commonly used as the subject of a sentence; no one is denying that.

That said, "we Gridanians" sounds fine to me, but I can't really say whether it's grammatically correct.

Guilty as charged. I like the cut of your jib, ser.

I could swear I've seen examples of 'we' used to modify the predicate object, though - this occurred to me later away from the computer a few hours after I made the post but I didn't feel like going back and editing it, and I couldn't find examples at hand. Now I feel both silly -and- as though I've got a chigoe in my petasos, because I can't actually figure out what the rule governing that modifying usage of 'we' is.

Well, obviously...
...Raya-O-Senna had a Yoda moment, and was trying to say:
We, Gridanians, indulge the Elementals... [and the next portion is just a sample of the many ways we indulge them].

I, for one, am sick of this tyranny of the Elementals and will fight back. I will be personally guiding Dalamud to Gridania by casting signal Flares when the time comes.

Thank you Raldo :) And to Teakwood, as far as a "rule governing that modifying usage of 'we,'" I believe it's simply that the modifiers are disregarded so that the subject, verb, and object are all in agreement. However, in your examples "we" was actually the subject, not a modifier, so it would be the various epithets and clauses that came after it that would be disregarded. Using your example of the Constitution:

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We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America...

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I've marked the subject in red, the verbs in green, and the object in blue (though as Raldo pointed out, the construction of this sentence doesn't quite parallel my original point). I've also struck out the very, very long modifier to the subject in order to demonstrate that with or without it, the subject would remain "We." I know we've already cleared that up, but I just wanted to call it out so we could compare it to the text in question.

To my knowledge, the same should hold true for the quote in-game, though because it's the object of the sentence rather than the subject, it should be "us" rather than "we." The pronoun is the object of the sentence, while "Gridanians" is merely modifying it.

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The elementals indulge we Gridanians in many and more ways...

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Leaving out the part I struck out (which is really just icing on the cake and doesn't do anything to determine the core grammatical structure of the sentence) it's fairly clear that "we" is incorrect. I agree that "us Gridanians" sounds rougher -- more like a Lominsan, as you said :p -- but technically it is correct. In order to get around this somewhat awkward usage, perhaps they could change the phrasing overall.

I understand what you meant about things like "us ___" slipping into common (though not necessarily proper) usage as a subject, such as "Us guys are going out for a drink," or the ever-popular "Me and my brother are playing ball." In fact, this incident is almost like the converse of that; as I mentioned earlier, it's like someone saying, "He went to the party with Bill and I," thinking that it somehow sounds smarter or more correct.

Anyway, sorry for the long and possibly unnecessary explanation. Just wanted to make sure my original point was clear! :D Thanks for the good discussion, you guys~

Hi guys! I say, this is a jolly good discussion you have here. :p

Well, I had a nice chat with our editor, who concluded that Maea has the right of it. HOWEVER! There is historic precedent for objective case uses of "we." HOWEVER! This is the result of hypercorrection, a phenomenon first touched upon by Teakwood. That is, to many an ear, "us" sounds like something you'd expect from a hot-blooded Lominsan. Arrr.

To summarize, "us" is correct in this context. Unfortunately, though, it still sounds rough to some. Looks like we'll just have to completely write around the issue, eh!?

*types furiously*

Done! You can all look forward to the revised line come patch 1.23. Thanks for all your input, everyone! I hope it was as fun for you as it was for me! ;)

Excellent! :D Thanks very much! I look forward to watching the new version in The Unending Journey soon!

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Originally Posted by Maea

Excellent! :D Thanks very much! I look forward to watching the new version in The Unending Journey soon!

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That's right! I forgot that we can see revisions made to quests we've already completed. Nice! I'm curious to see what Pinurabi changed it to as well.

...though it's kind of funny that my character corrects grammatical errors when remembering conversations he had in the past. :p

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Originally Posted by Rane

...though it's kind of funny that my character corrects grammatical errors when remembering conversations he had in the past. :p

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Actually, it is a completely normal phenomenon. You do it all the time with your own memories! The brain is extremely subjective and will correct anything and everything that doesn't seem "right" for it (e.g. making colors more vivid or less, adding or removing minor objects, sounds, etc.) In fact, as more time pass, the greater the chance that your memories got altered one way or another by your brain! Even to the point to creating entirely new and fake memories (by linking two souvenirs together, for example)! :O

So, yeah, don't sweat it. :D

P.S.: It's 1:30am here, I don't feel like providing any source but I did study neurosciences (masters)... if it helps put credentials on what I stated.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Actually, it is a completely normal phenomenon. You do it all the time with your own memories! The brain is extremely subjective and will correct anything and everything that doesn't seem "right" for it (e.g. making colors more vivid or less, adding or removing minor objects, sounds, etc.) In fact, as more time pass, the greater the chance that your memories got altered one way or another by your brain! Even to the point to creating entirely new and fake memories (by linking two souvenirs together, for example)! :O

So, yeah, don't sweat it. :D

P.S.: It's 1:30am here, I don't feel like providing any source but I did study neurosciences (masters)... if it helps put credentials on what I stated.

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Don't worry about listing sources; I believe you. The mere fact that you were worried about providing sources to show that you weren't making unsubstantiated claims is proof enough that you've been through graduate school. ;) (I just got out myself!) For future reference, though, I prefer that all citations be in APA format. :cool:

Seriously, it's interesting that your brain "corrects" as well as fabricates memories. It makes sense, though. I guess that means that the LOC team is making XIV more realistic by editing cutscenes. :)

I love this subforum. :D

(And I can corroborate Nakiamiie's claim! OR IS IT A FALSE MEMORY ALLOWING ME TO DO SO, AAAAA)