7.0 Tank/Healer/DPS Wishlist

A thread with a simple premise:

Say which Job(s) you play and what you most want for them/those Jobs (changes or staying the same, you're allowed to want whatever you feel you want) to have come in 7.0.

Made a thread like this in the DPS forum, thought it might be nice to have a more general one for all roles and see what people think.

Healers to have more than just 2 damage buttons.
Better tank balance in terms of mitigation, self sustain and damage.
If melee positionals are removed then add something else for melees.

I want them to Balance Tanks defensively and in terms of Party utility and mitigation.

There is no reason for PLD and WAR to be brining almost 1.5x as much sustain and party sustain to a fight if they're also doing the exact same damage as GNB and DRK. The stats we have about this are honestly comical to look at.

BRD
- better song usability -- make them not require a target, and maybe give them a shorter duration with shorter cooldown, and give each song 2 charges with a means to convert excess coda into gauge
- song name, and animation upgrades
- give Burst Shot the pvp half-cast mechanic
- more instances of damage like Barrage that occur throughout its rotation, and not just during raid burst
- cut dots or bring back some form of proc interaction with dot ticks
- a party sprint utility song

MCH
- rebalance Wildfire to have a shorter cooldown, let it crit/dh, and let it do aoe damage
- bring in the pvp sniper rifle, and make sure it hits HARD
- aoe automaton
- Auto Crossbow interacts with Gauss Round/Ricochet cooldowns
- Flamethrower interaction with Bioblaster

RDM
- more opportunities to preform melee attacks
- some way to do a reverse burst where you start with a magic combo that leads into a melee combo
- nerf Verraise

SMN
- summon Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva
- more hard casts

BLU
- Curling Iron from Barbariccia as a haste buff with a long duration
- Harrowing Hell from p10n as like a physical damage Surpanakha
- Ravening from p9n as a coinflip physical or magical damage buff with a chance to grant both from the beast spirit

melee dps
- I finally find a melee dps I enjoy playing either through changes to existing jobs or Viper

GNB
- a zero damage weaponskill with either a cast time or triggers the global cooldown with a longish gcd that grants one cartridge to help with moments when a boss becomes un-targetable at odd times
- add barrier HP to Heart of Light so it can protect against physical damage as well
- let Blasting Zone deal line aoe damage
- fix the bug where Double Down never crits under raid buffs
- rework Sonic Break to basically be Powder Mark from e11 -- ie it causes the afflicted enemy to explode when the debuff expires instead of it being a dot

DRK
- rework the job so it still feels somewhat berserkery with out the warrior stink somehow
- add a one button, three part gcd combo that costs blood gauge so it also feels knightly like GNB, and PLD
- thematically better communicate that MP is supposed to be a stand-in for your HP
- improve its ability to withstand, and protect against physical damage

SGE
- something like a Hypercharge window that gives SGE access to instant 1.5 second gcd spells
- an ability that grants Kardia to the whole party for a short time
- give SGE access to its dot at an earlier level

WHM
- delete Free Cure trait
- replace Free Cure with a trait that makes damage spells have useable chance to make cure 1/2 instant for low levels
- cure 1 upgrades to cure 2
- bring in Afflatus Purgation from pvp somehow

Generally, I think % mitigation buffs/debuffs are a bit too strong, and prevalent so I think scaling them back a bit will improve the feel of incoming damage for healers.

Edit to list stuff out

Tanks
-Role Ability for pulling enemies to you
-Give Tank stances unique effects again, like how Shield Oath and Grit used to reduce damage taken and Defiance used to increase max HP.

PLD
-Just revert the job back to it's pre 6.3 form, the class is STILL weaker than it was before the rework even after it's been buffed a few times.
-Bring back Stoneskin as a PLD spell

Ranged Phys
- Make Warden's Paean into a role ability and give BRD another support skill in it's place.

WHM
-Seraph Strike in PvE as a Lily spender

SCH
-Bring back Selene and her skills

SMN
-Make Physick function like Vercure by having it scale with INT rather than MND

WHM - Don't bore me to tears in content where there's little to no healing pressure. I don't care how this is achieved.

AST - Bring back the old cards or at least bring back something that's engaging. And spread said card play out rather than it all being dogpiled tightly into burst windows.

SCH - Bring some cohesion to the kit. Bring back the fairy's independent GCD and allow us to micro manage it again. Bring back bane, give us old SMN Fester and give us the old dot play again.

DNC - I'd love more buffs/supportive kit.

All jobs in general:

-Lean more heavily into what made each job unique thematically when approaching new abilities. Reach back into established lore and themes built during job quests and really hit home with them visually. I don't want more of "lasers everywhere, because reasons" skills.

Tanks in general:

-This might catch me some flak, but re-examine tanks and balance according to what they can bring to the table in terms of party-wide utility/regen/mitigation, and make them feel unique again. Put them back on a scale of 'Selfish<–––>Party-focused.'

WAR:

-Make me work for my life-steal, and make it fun.
-Detach (most) self-healing from single-press, non-damaging abilities. Put (most) of that into active life-steal damage. Having half- or full-heals at the press of a single button isn't very enthralling.
-I want something nutty. Give me a pseudo-transformation window where I pull out TWO AXES and go ballistic with upgraded skills and animations or something. Really play farther into that whole "going berserk" theme they had going on in the job quests.

DRK:

-I guess just give me upgraded animations on Bloodspiller and Quietus.
-If it's going to stay, bring Dark Missionary into the modern age and let it effect physical damage, too.
-I think it'd be neat to have some of your damage abilities (probably Bloodspiller and Quietus) apply some sort of buildup of a status on enemies that triggers after reaching a threshold, where it then explodes violently, maybe also applying a DoT or something. I think it would help move Bloodspiller and Quietus further away from feeling too similar to Fell Cleave and Decimate.

DNC:

-Consolidate some buttons, like Devilment becoming Starfall Dance when used, and Flourish becoming Fan Dance IV when used.

MCH:

-Auto Crossbow procing the cooldown reduction for Gauss Round and Ricochet.
-Remove the channeling effect from Flamethrower, and make it an OGCD that applies a DoT, making it usable for both single-target and AoE. Have that DoT gain a damage boost when comboing off of Bioblaster.
-I'd like an AoE battery spender.
-Give Wildfire splash damage for AoE use.
-MCH has a TON of isolated abilities that have room to interact with one-another, I'd like to see that happen. Chainsaw, Air Anchor, and Stabilizer are all just kind of... there. You press them and forget about them until they're off cooldown again. I'd like if they got some nice additional traits that effect other skills in some way.

RPR:

-Have Soul Reaver stacks persist between actions. I'm sick of the stacks I get from Gluttony just vanishing if I do anything other than Gibbet or Gallows. They last for 30 SECONDS, why do they get eaten if I so much as look at another ability?

SCH:

-Overhaul the Faerie gauge. Unlock it at an earlier level. Give new abilities that use it, and give us some way for it to grant existing abilities additional effects. Please don't just dumpster it.
-Feo Ul faerie glam, please.

More than anything I want AST Cards back as a bare minimum, but overall:

Tanks- to all play differently (I've said in another thread they are basically all the same) and for their DPS and Mit Kits to mingle with each other, as well as having the reward for doing your rotation be more Mit rather than big damage. I want to be a tank, not a braindead DPS.

Healers- To all have unique identities and different strengths and weaknesses. Also, for their kits to work with each other past the aspect of "it heals hp" and for healers to have to heal more. When they get to DPS it works towards aiding their ability to heal.

DPS- Have that "thing" that everyone wishes they had. Like you see that move activate and you are like "God I should be playing that class and not this one".

Mechanics- I really would like less dance mechanics, some stuff like we had from ARR, HW, or even a bit of SB. I dont really like feeling that im solving a sudoku puzzle while trying to make a boss die with fireballs and axes to the face. Lastly for this one, I want the boss to be important again, cause right now every boss could be a target dummy. Where they are doesnt matter, where they are facing isn't important, autoattacks aren't important. Its all scripted and besides who gets what markers/debuffs, it plays the exact same way every time.

Misc.- It sure would be sick to have a pet class, in which they actually did pets correctly. I thought they used to in the past, but I think I just didnt know better then. Also, more utility with classes like we had in SB, but please god no more "increases Damage/crit/DH" Please god just something else. Remove the idea of a 2-minute meta and bring down some of the structure the game is imprisoning itself with, you cant be creative when everything is a formula.

I want Astro to revert more to how busy it was in 5.0 and put useless cards into Lord/Lady or Royal Road like came before it.

I want more summons for Summoner, such as Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan.

I would like Dark Knight not having the 60s rotation but doubt it'll change unless other jobs do.

to start, I love the game, I enjoy playing it

unfortunately, we can can come up with a million wishlists and a million people could comment in them with general agreement of what we want.... and nothing will change. the things so far in this thread have been said time and time again and what has changed? little to nothing. I see 7.9 following the same roadmap, even worse, they are adding two new jobs which will only further dilute things.

we can wish and plead for a return to job identity as much as we want, demand more functionality for healers.. I just dont see it happening. I do not see any developer playing a healer, probably because they think its boring a majority of the time. they are right, it is. they made it so, and do not appear inclined to change it in any way.

Tanks:

Gut tank healing so that self-sustain re-enters the atmosphere.

Healers:

Remove most, if not all, oGCD healing.

I play a lot of Jobs, but also don't play a lot, so...

Overall: Encounter design to be less a scripted puzzle with pass/fail mechanics and body checks. I'm not saying it needs to be so unique an AI is actively inventing new mechanics, but it shouldn't be entirely predictable such that players can plan out CD use of the entire party to the second. Bosses need to autoattack while casting again, and in general, we need either more damage or weaker heals (or both) so that healers actually have need to hit GCD heals. We also probably need to reduce mitigation and especially non-healer healing and non-tank mitigation across the board. What remains should be people having to make choices with trade-offs. I often point out Clemency and Vercure are good abilities because the players using them have a serious consideration of whether the healing is so needed they have to give up being a DPSer for a minute to use it, unlike stuff like Curing Waltz or Nascent Flash which aren't trade offs as using them costs nothing other than the CD itself and it doesn't disrupt their rotation or cause them to shift what they're doing (Nascent not having Bloodwhetting's mitigation is pretty irrelevant considering the healing). Pass/fail mechanics should go away, as if everyone dies to a hit of anything, it means there's little for healers to heal or help the party recover. Body checks shouldn't exist outside of Savage/Ultimate, and should be used sparingly, not as a substitute (one person messes up, everyone dies) for actual difficulty. In short, make encounters less a scripted dance and more open ended, I guess. Finally, the 2 min meta REALLY needs to go. Even where it seems like it might be nice, it just causes problems. At its very best...it still constrains Job and fight designs like a boa-constrictor choking the life out of its prey.

Tanks:

PLD: I somewhat like new PLD, and I've been playing it since ARR. But some of it just doesn't make sense. Why is Goring Blade still here? Sentimentalism? Just make Royal Authority upgrade to it. Why are FoF and Requiescat different buttons? They're always used together. Put Req's damage into Confetior. You already have to use Confetior to unlock Swords. Just have FoF also give Confetior Ready (and the boosted spellcasting effects Req currently bestows) and then have Confetior have Requiescat's initial damage. IF we're keeping Tank sustain, give PLD its' before level EIGHTY-FOUR. Give PLD a low level Cure 1 spell that can upgrade to Clemency. Remove the gauge cost on Cover, it's not OP anymore, and the gauge cost doesn't dissuade that anyway. PLD overall has so many buttons, pruning/combining a few is probably not going to be make or break. Otherwise, PLD feels pretty good right now, specifically how flexible Holy Spirit is now makes it actually live up to the name of semi-caster Tank that can keep attacking even during brief disengages (or longer ones during its burst), and it feels more unique because of it.

WAR: I'm mostly fine with WAR, honestly. I think it does too much healing, though. Nascent shouldn't heal the WAR. It should be you heal yourself OR a party member, not both. Does Shake It Off REALLY need a HoT? WAR isn't too bad, but it's a bit too powerful and "does everything".

GNB: Honestly feels pretty good overall to me. I do think Sonic Break has no purpose (like Goring Blade) and should be removed. Double Down feels better, but I don't know why we got an extra powder gauge just to have it consumed with this every time anyway. Likewise, why is Bow Shock a clone of Circle of Scorn? But overall, I think just removing Sonic Break would clean things up pretty good. That or make No Mercy last a few seconds longer. Either way we could get that last elusive Burst Strike into the burst window. I think my only complaints about GNB aside from Sonic existing is that some abilities are weird in the level up process, like your 1-2 AOE generating cartridges but you not having an AOE spender until way later. But the end-game experience I actually think is fine. There is a part of me that wishes Bloodfest was a 1 min CD that generated 1 charge since, in addition to making the 1 min burst burstier, it would make the Job a bit less pushed to the 2 min meta of sameness as everything else, and it would also be up more often, making it more useful for wipe recovery. The current one may as well just be an automatic effect of every other No Mercy or generated by using Double Down for all the "depth" it (doesn't) add.

Healers: Overall, they need to be less...samey. They all have mostly the same DPS rotation, and SCH and SGE have a LOT of overlap in abilities and mechanics. They still feel distinct in some situations, but these are things that get optimized out (like SGE having more free movement while applying GCD shields vs SCH having a bigger infrequently available big party shield when it has Recitation and Deployment Tactics up). GET RID OF the "Pure"/"Barrier" split! It has been an abject failure and just made healing balance and feel worse overall. It also breaks with "bring the player, not the class", and AST completely breaks it wide open with Netural Sect (DO NOT take this as me advocating getting rid of Neutral Sect! It's one of the coolest abilities I think AST has, and this is me saying quite the opposite!) anyway. The Healers should all have some mitigation and healing options. If you want there to be a focus, the Pures can have barriers on a CD and the Barriers big heals on a CD, but right now SCH can do it all, AST can kinda do it all, and WHM has less party mitigation than BLACK MAGE does (Addle, against a boss that is targetable and doing a magic raidwide, reduces damage for the party by 20% every 90 sec while Temperance does the same thing every 120 seconds; in what world does it make sense for BLM to have more party mitigation than WHM??). And, of course, those earlier mentioned "General" changes. I WON'T speak to DPS buttons since I've done that to death other than a very brief blurb, but I DO want to say they should not all have the same. A healer having a DoT+Nukespam is fine. EVERY healer having a DoT+Nukespam is not fine. Give people who want something else an option to do something else. SGE should have been this, at the very least. But likewise, for people that like what we have now, make sure they get to keep that. We have 4 healer Jobs, make them not identical! And there's pretty good logic to giving them more abilities at earlier levels. They can have low level versions that upgrade by Trait later, but having things like Affaltus Solace at a low level should very much be reality. MOST healing should also be GCD, it would really break up that "nukespam" monotony if we actually...had to hardcast heals. It would also require encounter design be made with that in mind, either having GCD heals that are instant/short cast, or encounters with periods of low movement (at least for healers). oGCDs should be less powerful and less a replacement for GCD healing, and more modifier/augment buttons like Emergency Tactics, Deployment Tactics, Recitation, and Plenary Indulgence. Having a healer Job or two with oGCDs is probably okay since some people enjoy that playstyle, but it shouldn't be the default.

WHM: Mostly like it as it ks, though it's kind of annoying that using any GCD heal other than Lilies is almost always "bad", despite this being the playstyle ingrained while leveling, and something lots of people are more comfortable with anyway. My ideal situation would be to let WHM actually use more of its GCD kit. Right now, Solace and Rapture are EFFECTIVELY "Eukrasia Cure 2" and "Eukrasia Medica 1", but everything else is off the table. A part of me would just like those removed and the Job to have an "Afflatus" ability in its place that makes the next GCD heal instant cast, cost no MP, and generate Blood Lily. That would open up options for using Regen or Cure 3 more often. Another change, rework Freecure (also the AST one) to where casts of Glare had a chance to proc it. Not saying this one should do the Blood Lily thing, but it'd be nice if Glare interacted with LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE in the kit, and your basic heal seems like the best option there. Slash the MP cost for Medica so it actually has a purpose in being used every now and again and Medica 2 isn't always simply better in every way (the base cure + first HoT tick of Medica 2 does the same healing as Medica 1, making Medica 1 entirely redundant as the 100 MP lower cost isn't really significant in most situations). A part of me wants to say make Assize a GCD at this point, too, but I dunno. And for the love of god, give us Solace at level 20-30, not 52! (And maybe a low level version of Misery, too; really establish that "spend Lilies early and often, get big boom" early on rather than all the way in ShB). DO NOT do the SCH thing and make us have to optimize using a healing resource for damage, though. "damage >>> all" means, in practice, you'd just never get to use it to heal. And be careful of button bloat. WHM already has bordering on 30 abilities, and when you add Sprint, LB, and Tincture, you're at 33. If we have more added, we need it to be things upgrading or have some things combined (Cure 1 -> Cure 2?). Also, Cure 2 could do with a lower MP cost. WHM's MP economy is worse than AST's, so why do all spells they both have copies of, the AST ones are also MP cheaper?

SCH: Remove Dissipation. Or have IT stop removing Eos. It's thematically at odds with the class and fantasy of having the SCH betray their faerie for a quick power boost. Embrace isn't that powerful, just give people the AF stacks and 10% GCD heal boost and move on. Have something else work with Faerie Gauge. Simple answer is put Fey Blessing back on it but without a CD. If someone has 90 gauge and wants to blow it on 3x Fey Blessings, is this really so overpowered? It de-facto would be a 1 min CD anyway because of how much gauge it costs, and give us something more "general use" to use the gauge on. On the one hand, SCH has so many buttons...but on the other, they're all pretty useful. Lower Deployment Tactics to 60 sec, too, while you're at it. It's such a fun ability, but I feel like I HAVE to save it for big emergencies. Let us use fun stuff more often. I'd honestly like to see Energy Drain removed from AF since it EXISTING means using AF heal abilities - and there are some cool/fun ones like Excog and Soil - is "bad". Make it cost 20 Faerie Gauge or something instead. Again, give that gauge some actual uses. Have Lustrate upgrade to having a barrier on it like Celestial Intersection; SCH is supposed to be a BARRIER healer yet it has not a single oGCD barrier, and Lustrate is a near-dead button most of the time anyway. Expedience was good, more things like that, please. Hell, have Lustrate give a single target Expeience to someone, I dunno. Just make it not suck. :)

AST: AST is...way too busy in burst (but some people like that...), but for the buffer/support healer, it does surprisingly little of that OUTSIDE of burst. How about making the CD on Draw shorter, like 20 or 15 sec, so ASTs can throw out more frequent buffs and it's not carpel tunnel madness every 2 mins but only a single card played in between bursts? There's also some weird redundancies in the kit - why have Celestial Intersection instead of just two charges of Exaltation? - and why is Undraw still even an ability? AST is also suffering from button bloat, though I'm not sure the best way of addressing that other than combining a few things, though players have made suggestions for that. On the one hand, I'd like Draw/Play to be GCDs (make the next Malific 3x as strong to make this damage neutral), but then I also get some people like the high apm so...not sure a solution there.

SGE: For what it is, SGE is fine...but is what it is fine? It could have and probably should have been "The GNB of healers", the "healer for DPS minded players", but it kind of...isn't. Instead, it has tons of powerful oGCD heals and Kardia (and its damage rotation) is something of an afterthought. And it's oGCD suite is ridiculously powerful. For a "Barrier healer", it can put out serious healing all at once. Toxicon isn't damage neutral, at the least it should do 1.5x a Dosis damage so it's less of a loss to use GCD shields on people. And have Adddersting generate ether every 20 sec or every time a Addersgall is used. Something to give it more of a use throughout a fight. Make Diskrasia a ranged instant - WHM and AST have cast time AOEs but one is point blank (and a Stun) the other is ranged. Yet SCH and SGE's are near-identical, Art of War just does 10 more potency of damage to targets. Give Dyskrasia a 25y range and centered on the target. It's an instant cast so it wouldn't even run into Gravity's issue of fizzling. Less damage than Art of War but can be used from range. Give it the Toxicon 1 animation and we can pretend to be Alphie from the EW trailer. Win-win. Then give it a Eukrasia effect that does a DoT on all targets and let SGE's play with that in AOE.

...okay, I went into damage kits for SGE more than I intended (and I COULD go into for each healer other than WHM and AST, I think both of their damage kits are fine as they are given how they work), but moving on.

DPS: All DPS mitigations and heals should be GCDs. They don't have to be destructive like breaking combos, but they should force the Job to stop what it's doing if it wants to step out of its role and be a healer. Self-sustain is fine with stuff like Second Wind and Bloodbath, but they should still be choices, like Bloodbath should do healing but reduce damage by a bit while in effect. Make there be an actual trade-off where it's not always a no-brain answer that negates healers existing, but where it's still a useful tool. Also, shorter CDs for stuff like Shade Shift and Riddle of Earth. Their effects don't need to be powerful, but they should be frequent options for personal responsibility or soloing. SAM's Third Eye is a good example and probably a good place to start thinking about it. DPSers shouldn't be healing themselves to full left and right, or negating healers by doing their job, but they should have some options - as trade-offs against damage - for soloing or protecting themselves from mistakes. The important thing here - and I get it IS a tightrope to walk - is to give DPS players agency and let them pull themselves through things even if they have a somewhat bad healer, but at the same time, they shouldn't be so powerful or free that the DPS player can negate healers existing or use them without seriously considering if the trade-off in lost DPS is worth it.

Melee: I don't play them, but one big thing seems to be boss hitboxes the size of a small galaxy. Those need to be shrunk down a bit.

Ranged Phys: Don't usually play them, but a big thing seems to be people want more party support. An easy one would make Pelaton usable in combat with a 60 sec CD that gives the Expedience speed boost effect for 10 sec. That's super low hanging fruit! If you don't want to program it into Pelaton, do it into Tactician/etc; that one thing all of them have and could just be a role action but you wanted to keep the names different (like healer Raises and UNLIKE healer Esunas...RIP SCH Leeches...). Also that heal/shield thing BRD used to have in SB would be nice...Palisade? And I know this one is WAY out of left field, but can we give them Healer LB 3 like BRD had in ARR again? All the Ranged Phys? There's practically no time "line AOE of damage but does less damage than Melee LB" is really all that useful in boss fights that are basically always single target and where you're pretty much guaranteed a Caster that could Caster LB3 the few times it would be useful to do so anyway. And I'm a BIT iffy on it, but it might be nice for them to all have a Raise on a CD. Ranged Phys are all DPS nerfed for their "support/utility" anyway, may as well make it WORTH IT. Defibrillator on MCH, I saw someone suggest if DNC's Dance Partner is down when they do their big CD it could raise them, etc. There are some neat ways to make it unique and not OP, but also make runs where the healers go down and you don't have a RDM/SMN not outright wipes.

MCH: APM is a bit high in burst (but again, some people like that), but it's also really bad for people with ping issues. Wildfire and Hypercharge should be based on charges, just like stuff like Requiescat is. Also Autocrossbow should do the same thing Heat Blast does, lowering the CD on AT LEAST Ricochet. And Flamethrower should be less...uh...bad. Also, Scattergun shouldn't require a target, just let it be a cone AOE that can be fired at will. And can we get a glowy version of the Machi hand mortar? It's nice to have weapon options that aren't flinging around a big rifle one-handed.

Casters: Are...in general, probably in the best place of all the roles, imo. There are options from simple to complex, and each of the three feel distinct to play. However, I am sad for the SMN players that lost their preferred playstyle. As a SMN player since ARR, I find the new version vastly better, but some people really DID love the old one. Please let the new Caster be designed for them and try to rekindle that old SMN debuff and DoT mage feel?

RDM: Lower the mana cost of Enchanted Reprise to either 1/1 or 2/2. 5/5 made sense when you needed 80/80 to do a melee combo, but 5/5 of 50/50 is a pretty huge chunk, especially when there are other movement options to compete with like Acceleration. ALTERNATIVELY, increase the cost to 15/15, but let it be used for generating Mana Gems. 3x uses would let the player use their caster combo. Tune the damage so it's a DPS loss vs getting into melee to use your melee combo, but is an option for if you need to get your burst out but can't safely get into melee range due to mechanics or the party's two melees being in the two melee range spots of the boss during a mechanic. This button needs a reason to exist or to be removed. Vercure is fine (as I mentioned above along with Clemency), but stuff like VerProShell (Magick Barrier) should really have a cast time, like old Protect did. And this should be true of ALL DPS Job mitigations. Give them a real cost in the only thing that matters: DPS. A RDM can play at being a healer in times of need, but doing so comes at the cost of being a healer, not a DPSer, for the time they need to do that. Other than all THAT, though... Just remove Jolt at this point OR make it the proc and Fire/Stone available baseline. While I love RDM's easy to pick up and run with design, Jolt and the Stone/Fire procs seem...clunky somehow. Remove Jolt and have the Stone/Fire spells up all the time, with the procs changed to "Empowered Stone/Fire" which makes the next instant cast or do extra damage or generate extra MP instead. Keeps an element of randomness with less clunk. Likewise, either reverse the AOE rotation so it's like the single target (Impact being short cast and Aero/Thunder long), or remove Impact entirely. And for the love of god, don't tack on ANOTHER finisher at the end of the combo. We're good for at least another expansion with what we have. And like with the healers, some stuff should be lower level. Vercure should be available by level 30 (scoot Verstone down to 28, it's fine), and Verraise at level 50. RDM gets taxed in damage for having these utility spells, yet doesn't get them for level 50 or 60 content, including old raids and stuff. Give us Verstone and Verfire upgrades. And can we have some shorter swords? It irks me whenever I'm casting and my camera's at all close to my character, even with the Tucks (the shorter ones in game), my sword sticks into the ground and wiggles around. Sticking into the ground STATIONARY wouldn't be so bad, but the way it wiggles makes the ground look like quicksand, even if I'm standing on stone. It's just...a little thing but an annoying little thing.

SMN: I honestly love it like it is, but it needs a few tweaks. Second set of Primals for after Firebird seems a low hanging fruit; Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva to complete the set. Even if you just reskin Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda's abilities, it would still be nice. Energy Drain/Siphon just seems so dated and like it doesn't fit with the Job. And do they really need to be separate buttons? Just have it be Energy Siphon and Painflare, and have it do Energy Drain/Fester damage to the primary target and the lower AOE amount to the rest. Simple. Give Carby an autoattack. 0.7 sec animation lock isn't an issue for Radiant Aegis that we can't live with, and it won't prevent summoning since the auto-attack would be clipped/ghosted. It's tick damage, so who really cares? It would just be nice for players since it would make Carby look like more a partner than a pointless totem for Summons to manifest from, which is what it is right now. Make Physic scale off of INT. Vercure, which can be dualcast, isn't OP, why would Physic be? And unlike stuff like Curing Waltz, it's a GCD, so the chances of it being overpowered in any way are nonexistent.

.

The other Jobs I don't really play much of, though I do have passing interest in them, but I'm also worried about the 2 min meta designing us into a corner on Job designs in general, and encounter design severely limiting gameplay and role expression, and making healers largely sidelined at this point. I feel like some things need to change, but a lot of Jobs are actually not bad, they just need some touching up around the edges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Tanks:

Gut tank healing so that self-sustain re-enters the atmosphere.

Healers:

Remove most, if not all, oGCD healing.

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I'm against removing healing from tanks, I think reducing it's fine, Some instances like PLD's sustain on magic attacks should be removed (for something more weaker that fits PLD's kit), Warrior Should have their team healing abilities removed as I feel like warrior shouldn't be actively healing Allies, Also it's aoe sustain is just unfun I'm ok with warriors high sustain but it feels like theirs no current drawbacks for it which is the issue.

Removing sustain and also letting tanks stay in the current state they are would honestly just drive people more away from tank, I think both healers and tank need overhauls but just changing these two things wouldn't really make it fun on the tanks end.

also If you removed/nerfed OGCD healing, good tank sustain/utility raid wide usage would actually make tank/healer more of a team reward, in that tanks using party abilities well will save healer GCD's, which I think is actually a really good interaction for the game.

I responded the original DPS thread with the ones I play the most, so... here's the healers I do:


Astrologian, since it's getting a rework anyways

- I wish that AST's 2min burst windows becomes less hectic, and instead that card usage and APM rate is well distributed along the whole timeline. Cards to me are a great 'oomph' moment, that go by unsavored when it's all crammed into a few seconds.

- Related to above's point, Draw becoimes a GCD and Play remains oGCD. Also Draw is now free to use and Play is what gets the charges.

- If Minor Arcana stays, let it just be either Direct Damage (Lords) or a 10% Determination buff for someone for a few seconds (Lady).

- Combust is no longer a dot. Now it's an action (with 15s recast) that applies a 15s timer debuff on the target that 'combusts' in direct damage with an aoe falloff component. If the target is caught by Earthly Star, the debuff combusts earlier with increased damage.

- Pair of cards are now meant to be sorted to Tanks/Healers/DPSers instead of just Ranged/Melee. Cards also give an extra secondary utility effect based on the role.

- Celestial Intersection is now only 1 charge, but is raid-wide and adjusted accordingly - to make up for the loss of that single target support, Essential Dignity recharges faster and Synastry now works with any single target healing.

- Lightspeed is now a single target 15s sprint that you can apply on yourself or somebody else.

/new/
- "Luminiferous Aether" (reintroduced and rebranded) - an oGCD dps action that becomes available after you cast Play. It collects the residual aether from the card you used to cast an aspected offensive magic attack based on the little elemental animation you get with each card.



Scholar

- Seraph redesigned to apply the shield as soon as it arrives. Consolation is now just direct healing.

- Let Fey Blessing consume faerie gauge once more and no recast time. This kind of makes up a bit for the whole Energy Drain versus Aetherflow heals, because you'd still get something to work with even if you opted to dps with the resource.

- One more dot back. Shadowflare back. Deployment Tactics works for Dots now.

- Dissipation thrown in the compost bin and resurging as something that actually feels great to press.

AST [ I know they will get a rework in 7.0]
(Here is some wishful thinking)

★ Let the healkit stay somewhat the same,
I wouldnt want to lose that depth and it beeing turned into a WHM clone.

★ Let the cards stay the same, dont need to be more complicated
- Rather add some depth to it.
If i where to create a better card system i would go for:

3 type of cards:
Blue Card => TANK[Def/mitigation+ dmg]
Green Card => HEALER[MP + dmg]
Red Card => DPS[Crit + dmg]
Note: If you give the wrong card to wrong role:
The dmg buff gets reduced and the extra buff effect dosnt apply.

★ [Astrodyne] + (Astrosigns) and [Minior Arcana]..
They're the abilties i like the least with the job,
and i think reworking them would improve the job.

★[Minor Arcana]:
- Turns into a second card deck, separated from your main deck.
- They will be AOE cards and give buffs like: inc movement speed(in combat), inc healing, mitigation..ect (utility kind of buffs).
- You can't choose [RNG]; You draw one card and have to use the card to get a new one(has cd).
- They stack, but the effect gets reduced.(If 2 AST, and they both buff with same ability)
[The Lord card will be a seperated ability with 60s cd]

★[Astrodyne] and (astrosigns).
They are the reason why AST has a busy opner/burst phase,
Because it evolve around getting Astrodyne(buff) rdy for the 2min burst phase,
Optimally with 3 different astrosign for the 5% dmg inc buff!

Idk how we could have reworked them..
Maybe make it so all the buffs are given regardless of astrosigns!
But their duration is based on the how many unique seals you got?

1 = 10sec
2 = 15s
3 = 20s

(or just remove them and figure out something better, idk)

Tank:
Warrior - Please give us a Cockroach suit - we refuse to die.

Dps:
Black mage - Please we need a bigger hat.

Healer:
Sch - Like BLM we need a bigger book, the size of a Lalafell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mallleable

SGE
- something like a Hypercharge window that gives SGE access to instant 1.5 second gcd spells
- an ability that grants Kardia to the whole party for a short time .

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That's actually something I want to see as well, and even know exactly where I'd want it. Eukrasian Pneuma. Lower upfront healing in exchange for the party wide Kardion so you pick the mode depending on whether the raid wide attack is all at once or a dot/multiple hits.
I also kind of want to see Phlegma brought down to a 30s CD, possibly with potency changed to match if needed for balance. Still get 2 in during each 2 minute burst period, but you get another in outside of that and the time lines up to help serve as a reminder to reapply Eukrasian Dosis.
There needs to be an easier way to get Addersting as well. Getting paired with another shield healer makes keeping that topped off annoying, to the point where I find myself using Dyskrasia as a movement DPS option more than Toxikon. If not that, then definitely your Hypercharge idea just to be able to Dosis on the move.

I just want them to finally decide what to do with the DPS sub roles. Phys and mag ranged being more party focused than melee but still having BLM and MCH is going to forever be pain to balance around the party slots. Either split DPS into Greedy / Support sub roles with more definition or make them all greedy so they can be balanced purely around their own numbers and not buff stacking.

Tbh I rather wait what they give us . Because we dont know what they are doing. Even we give feedback they decide what they want to do on this game. I rather have low hopes and see how goes.

I started playing SMN this Expansion, I like it a lot, but if I were to make a suggestion, as a baby SMN, I would want Carby to do some auto-attacking. It seems like he is there, but not really at the same time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

I just want them to finally decide what to do with the DPS sub roles. Phys and mag ranged being more party focused than melee but still having BLM and MCH is going to forever be pain to balance around the party slots. Either split DPS into Greedy / Support sub roles with more definition or make them all greedy so they can be balanced purely around their own numbers and not buff stacking.

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I suspect BRD, and maybe MCH will be getting skills with cast times to some degree in 7.0 like they do in pvp as well as MCH getting some more utility considering it got Dismantle back. So I think that will make ranged balance as a whole a bit tighter in terms of damage vs. mobility, and utility. I don't know what they'll do with BLM considering it gets special treatment as it is Yoship's favorite.

Considering my main is getting a rework (dragoon), I just hope it doesn't get gutted and simplified like crazy like the smn rework.
And I know this next one won't happen but, more positionals please.

WHM
I want it to stay mostly the same. Have no complaint about the job. Maybe add a water based job to make it lore accurate. I'm thinking water should be an AoE attack that upgrades to Holy just like aero and stone upgrade to dia and glare.

TBH. I'm more about changes to the actual gameplay design in terms of enemies, bosses, and areas than specifics on jobs and feel like we need a reversion back to ARR/HW in terms of encounters.

Mob/boss positioning being important again because of instant untelegraphed AoE and splash attacks.
Enemies having direct target abilities that ignore the enmity order and target randomly that either deal damage or apply debuffs which are also instant.
More environmental hazards and mechanics. Like Aurum Vale's bile pools and gas vents, the sand columns and cerulean pools in cutter's cry, the plants in that 1 HW leveling duty that spawn exploding pods, etc...
More enemies that simply ignore enmity generation like the lancer in an early boss battle that chooses someone as their target and attacks them exclusively until you take them out, or those bipedal dragons in HW that roam and attack where they feel like it.

The gameplay itself has basically become too easy and predictable and no amount of job skill specific changes or overhauls is going to correct it. IMO i feel like the real cause of boredom playing a healer now isn't their kit. It's that everything is so excessively telegraphed that the only times players other than the tank receive damage is either from an unavoidable room wide attack, or playing with low quality players that keep standing in things they shouldn't be. Additionally the frequency of those types of attacks along with tankbusters has fallen noticeably so there's essentially always piles of shields/mitigation to stack for them during the time between the marker appearing and the attack finally going off resulting in them being a non-threat.

More dps tools to have some semblance of a mini rotation.

I don't care if its in the form of better cards (ast), dots (sch) or even skill combos but if the game has us spending over 80-90% of our GCD's in damage dealing actions the least it can do is make those moments rewarding and not the 1nuke 1dot mess we have now. It would make everything from casual/solo content to high end more interesting

I would love to see more interactions within the kits too, no more having X cd being completely unaffected by almost any other skill or resource we have

Dps:
In general Rework damage buffs, I'd like to see less "buff" jobs in general and the jobs that do provide buffs would actually feel a bit more unqiue In timings... Even having more partner or target buffs would be considerably more interesting to me.

Tank:
Rework DRK give it cool animations also, Rework to pld (fix its buttons make goring blade a combo). Make cover, clemency, shield bash useful, reduce bloat, War, no more aoe healing for each mob, also remove shake it off for a intimidation ability that reduces enemy damage, put upheavel/gapcloser back on gauge, GNB Make heart of light physical aswell as magic. In general I'd like to see more complex DPS on tanks and their team abilities should be used more on team.

Healer:
Reduce OGCD heals or have more DPS optimisation like (energy drain), add more risk reward to healing kits vs DPS interactions, Increase fight damage where you can, Reduce healing potency in AOE heals (single target can be tuned down a lil bit), WHM, Add a Areo Proc, bring back elemental stone/wind magic AST, bring back noct sect, make cards more interesting Sage, Give it more kardia interactions (like making kardia give barriers, or aoe kardia on cooldown) have a energy drain equivalent, maybe another DPS button. SCH, Up the DPS on energy drain quite a bit, give it two dots with two different timers

Across one character or the other, I play everything, and the wishlist would quickly reach many, many pages if writing everything out, so I guess I'll just stick with some generalities for now:

• Unfetter macros, perhaps through a more user-friendly version (call it, idk, Gamuts or Stacks or what have you).
  
  Let players combine actions into single keys as they please.
  
  
• Fewer buttons, but more nuance possible from each key. (In addition to the customizations possible above.)
  
  If the action isn't both necessary and almost certain in most situations to create a net increase in enjoyable depth for most players worthy of its button cost, ax it. Yes, that may mean dropping things like Arm's Length and Surecast and just actually doing mechanics and engaging with our mobility kits or countering KBs by more versatile means instead. Yes, that may mean that having Senei and Guren as separate buttons rather than a choice one can set through simple positioning (are there multiple enemies within the line of attack -- if so, Guren; if you want to focus target, aim it through only one for less total damage but greater focus fire). Yes, that means either allowing players Etc., etc.
  
  
• Few to no shared actions. No templates-based design. Trim them, starting with what is unnecessary.
  
  Replace Role Actions with job-unique actions, if even necessary. Replace Raise equivalents with the ability to heal downed allies, raising them when they've been healed for some amount of their HP (e.g., 20%, with their taking only 25% healing while downed). Replace Provoke with alternate methods of burst threat and with tank threat also temporarily stealing up to a high portion of total threat. Replace Tank Stance equivalents with passive Enmity bonuses for tanks and for striking from front>side>rear for further control, etc. Differentiate means of cleanses, and perhaps even whether the given healer has a omni-cleanse button like Esuna (or instead includes different sub-categories bundled with/among healing actions).
  
  
• Larger swing/versatility, largely by not so pigeon-holing the outputs of each job via CDs and by letting kits expand more as they please / organically and with some attention to potential solo play.
  
  Though it might not always be in a DPS's interest, if they've got core actions that would seemingly allow for some interesting, even if cross-role, tactics at little to no additional button cost, then they should be so allowed. Let the Monk dodge/self-purify tank. Let the DRG kite-tank. Let the NIN combine the two. Let the RDM heal. Let the SMN Titan-tank. Let the DRK go wild. Let the WHM nuke. Let the SGE barrier-dance tank. In more serious and traditional content, such may make little difference, but it's worth future-proofing more oddball content (especially where said content is used for or makes particular use of longer-term job-specific investments like Relic grinds).

I am a WHM and I want to do more healing (why do WARs heal more than healers?), would love to have buffs (shields, DPS boosts, speed boosts, AOE monster slows, boss damage reduction, etc) or other stats improvement spells, and less need to DPS.

What I don’t want is an actual DPS rotation. If I get one of those, then it may be time for me to retire, I don't want to be a DPS.

Scholar: Bane, fester, miasma, crit adlo shield comes in one piece, faerie is an entity and commandable again, quickened aetherflow, mp generation on energy drain, delete seraph for rouse, and make consolation locked behind dissipation or something. Additionally the helices and addendums: white and black.

Warrior: put the lifesteal back to a portion of damage dealt, conal overpower, onslaught/upheaval back on the gauge, get rid of that ridiculous stack system so haste stacking is fun again and vengeance counters can direct crit. Also bring back the directional crit to raw int, it’ll be fun. The infuriate cooldown refund is more interesting than primal rend, so more along the lines of the former than obvious trailerbait would be nice.

Dark knight: stop it playing as hard into raid buffs if they’re staying. It scales way too hard to ever be balanced in its current state. Wholesale reversion to hw is probably not going to be the best move, but going in that direction broadly.

Sage: on the subject of dark arts, just copy it fully. It feels so clunky in its current state. Lean more into the kardio thing, warrior still has a better version in nascent. Get a guaranteed crit attack that makes kardio critically heal - the shield breaking thing for instance. Scale it so it’s not use on cd, but mainly something to prioritise during heavy boss autos/useless tanks.

Paladin: I dislike the rework, undo it. All they had to do was make it the unquestionably highest damage tank on dummies. They understand this concept with black mage, why is it so hard here?

White mage: I want malediction of water but will settle for hydro pull. Some more mitigation would be nice, lily shield or something. Something versatile rather than lilybell style “oh look it’s a five hit raidwide”.

Ast: nocturnal sect and time magic back. And unique effect cards, it’s not like parsing doesn’t adjust for them.

Gunbreaker: A dot where you use continuation each tick of damage. I dunno, it doesn’t feel as nice to play as it did in shadowbringers. At least it’s probably going to be not terrible given how that would reflect back to ff8.

I have posted a siimilar list in the other thread but what I would like to see happening is ...

1. Reversion of Role Dilution
Address the increasing distribution of healing and mitigation responsibilities across different roles, which diminishes the healer's responsibility and agency.

• Return the major responsibility for group mitigation to healers. Mitigation mandatory for survival should be sufficiently coverable by healers.
• Modify abilities like WAR Nascent Flash/Glint to ensure they are not excessively powerful compared to healer abilities. Avoid scenarios where a single role can sustain through a Savage fight independently.
• Rework WAR Shake It Off and PLD Divine Veil. Consider transforming them into temporary Max HP buffs or attaching a cost, so they supplement rather than replace healers' actions.
• Ensure healers are essential for high-end content. Create multiple instances requiring the concerted effort of both healers, beyond requiring them for being predictable targets for mechanics.
• Introduce scenarios that require tanks to adopt more adaptive strategies, such as managing adds, crowd control, and positioning.

2. More Engaging Healer Gameplay
Enhance the complexity and engagement of playing as a healer, balancing team survival with personal survival.

• Shift encounter designs from choreographed movements to more tactical and dynamic battles, reintroducing elements like untelegraphed TBs.
• Provide instances requiring heightened situational awareness and adaptability, like in T5-T13 fights.
• Implement resource management changes, such as introducing MP costs to oGCDs, making GCD heals a more viable option at times.
• Design mechanics that engage healers continuously without long durations of DPS-only actions.
• Offer unique mechanics for healers or reduce their cognitive load during complex mechanics, allowing them to focus on healing.
• Enhance the interaction between oGCDs and GCD heals; Horoscope/Plenary Indulgence are positive examples.
• Allow healers to rectify mistakes effectively through swift reactions and resource expenditure.

3. Maintaining Fun with Improved Gear
Address the issue of improved gear reducing the healer's role.

• Eliminate magical mitigation from gear and rely on increased Max HP for easing difficulty.
• Distribute heal checks throughout a fight, avoiding scenarios where they are easily bypassed with high DPS.
• Create incentives for replaying content at higher difficulties, independent of the first-week raid challenges.

4. New Abilities for Healers
Introduce new abilities that add strategic depth to the healer's role.

• Implement a skill similar to GW1's Divine Intervention or EQ2's Stoneskin, applicable to non-tanks and retaining effects like debuffs/knockbacks on damage. Cost and cooldown should be balanced.
• Enhance Esuna for immediate effect with a reduced cooldown.

Concerns about the ongoing design trend:
Address the trend of shifting responsibilities from healers to other roles.

• This could be due to the simplification of roles, especially tanks, and removal of unique mechanics and a general shift towards equalizing responsibility and power among players.
• This shift is concerning as it diminishes the unique appeal of healers and leaves them without compensation. The focus on DPS detracts from the core role of healers, which is to ensure team safety and recovery.

As long as Ninja remains completely unchanged I'm whatever with everything else.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

RPR:

-Have Soul Reaver stacks persist between actions. I'm sick of the stacks I get from Gluttony just vanishing if I do anything other than Gibbet or Gallows. They last for 30 SECONDS, why do they get eaten if I so much as look at another ability?

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Very much this. Especially when we use the ability that we're supposed to use first in an encounter. Even if they just let me reapply Death's Design while retaining them I would be happy.

GNB: Please take us out of the party mit punishment corner and let us be able to help on physical damage with Heart of Light or get a party regen or something, too

SGE: More ways to get addersting stacks

Just make it so the Raise status can't be overwritten. Duplicate raises are a bad habit and shouldn't be the standard. It's even more laughable when a healer hard-casts a Raise on someone in the revival process and it's still consumed.

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Just make it so the Raise status can't be overwritten. Duplicate raises are a bad habit and shouldn't be the standard. It's even more laughable when a healer hard-casts a Raise on someone in the revival process and it's still consumed.

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Or just make it so casting a second raise on someone that already has the status on them auto accepts it and forces them off the floor :P lol

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yes, that may mean dropping things like Arm's Length and Surecast and just actually doing mechanics and engaging with our mobility kits or countering KBs by more versatile means instead.

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That's actually a very interesting point. Actions like the global KB immunity just make the mechanic itself pointless. Like in P7S, where you need multiple times through the encounter, but every single time you do it's already off cooldown. What's even the challenge? Correct timing of a key press?

We see that kind of thing in other examples too, like why melee have positionals when every situation that they can't hit the right side is covered by two charges of True North instead of actual movement adjustment? Or why BLM have the Thundercloud proc when that T3 management was already neutered by the Sharpcast changes?

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Originally Posted by Raikai

That's actually a very interesting point. Actions like the global KB immunity just make the mechanic itself pointless. Like in P7S, where you need multiple times through the encounter, but every single time you do it's already off cooldown. What's even the challenge? Correct timing of a key press?

We see that kind of thing in other examples too, like why melee have positionals when every situation that they can't hit the right side is covered by two charges of True North instead of actual movement adjustment? Or why BLM have the Thundercloud proc when that T3 management was already neutered by the Sharpcast changes?

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Pretty much. Yep.

To me, it'd be far better to instead just actually polish the base mechanics.

Positionals:
Give a triple-check on positionals (say, before, barely before, and barely, barely after the current actuation time) and count any of those successes as a successful positional so that what looks like it would have been a successful positional almost always would be, regardless of forced boss spins. Make bosses temporarily reverse their hitboxes (Rear is forward, but narrower; flanks to its sides, a la original Demon Wall) when they leap to the edge. For jobs with otherwise identical skills varied only by positional (Wheeling/Fang), let those skills be used in either order. For jobs with near-constant positionals, make the non-positional alternatives a bit less costly, give at least one frequent skill "front" in addition, and/or add a passive leniency mechanic (e.g., 3 charges, 30s recharge - Would-be missed positionals consume a charge to instead count as a success; each successful positional reduces the recharge time by 1s). And, community-wise, just re-normalize stacking under the boss or where the rear meets flank instead of just 'anywhere within melee reach of the boss's hitbox.

Knockbacks:
Use your damn shields and mobility tools. Make velocity-cancels a tiny bit easier to pull off, if need be.

Safety Alternatives (e.g., Engagement vs. Disengagement):
Get that shit out of here and instead just make the thing they're an alternative to a more flexible in their timing from the start and a bit safer to use. For instance, have fixed-distance mobility tools "snap" up to 10% more distance or 20% less distance to pathable terrain. Perhaps even create a quarter-second or so "hang time" window on non-pathable terrain from which mobility tools may be allowed to recover the player (i.e., those areas just become timed death zones without WASD movement control but from which one may still use mobility tools, instead of outright of being non-pathable and killing absolutely instantly).

And as for Sharpcast, just increase the CD again. The charges and the fact that the duration lasts so long (so that you can always fit it in a weave well before its consumption) offers plentiful flexibility anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Pretty much. Yep.

Knockbacks:
Use your damn shields and mobility tools. Make velocity-cancels a tiny bit easier to pull off, if need be.

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Funny that my fav. DPS job, Dancer, got An Avant, the best dash in the game due to how practical and with how many charges it comes with... yet Dancers don't really need it since they're fully mobile all the time and can be anywhere and keep their uptime.

I often not use it during prog, so my timing gets good without it as a crutch (for when I play other jobs). I don't use it on reclears because I have the mechs mastered anyway... I literally just use it to correct a positional mistake, which doesn't really happen if I'm paying attention.

But overall, I agree that instead of just deleting features, they should try to make them relevant again.

For my main thing, healers, I thought maybe I should condense this. Maybe I should with the others...hm...

The super short version:

General: Make healers less samey, make encounter designs actually have more healing, less body-checks, less pass-fail one-shot mechanics, reduce "free" healing (Curing Waltz/Nascent Flash = bad, Clemency/Vercure = good) and mitigation from non-healers.

WHM: Remove "Afflatus Solace/Rapture". Add "Afflatus". Afflatus causes the next GCD heal to be instant cast, cost no MP, and nourish the Blood Lily. Cure 2 becomes Afflatus Solace, Medica 1 becomes Afflatus Rapture, Regen becomes Afflatus Comfort, Medica 1 becomes Afflatus Succor, Cure 3 becomes Afflatus Ascension. Cure 1 upgrades to Cure 2 at level 30. Cure 2's MP cost reduced to 500 MP, its cast time reduced to 1.5 sec. Medica 1's MP cost reduced to 600 MP. Freecure proc reworked to where Glare casts and Dia ticks have a chance of making the next Cure 2 or Regen instant cast and cost no MP. If the Afflatus is too powerful being used on EVERYthing, then just make it Regen, Cure 2, and Medica 1 if Medica 2 and Cure 3 are considered too powerful. Add a damage reduction (5%?) effect to Plenary. Call it Pro-Shell.

SCH: Remove Dissipation or rework to where it no longer removes Eos. Remove Fey Blessing's CD, it now costs 30 Faerie Gauge to execute. Remove Energy Drain from costing Aetherflow, it now costs 10 Faerie Gauge. Lower Deployment Tactics' CD to 60 seconds. Have Lustrate upgrade via Trait to also granting a 200 potency barrier (like Celestial Intersection manages to do) and/or give it a short duration (5 sec?) sprint speed to the target like Expedience does.

AST: Consolidate some things and make the burst less hell, make the CD on Draw short (15 or 20 sec?) and put Draw and Play on the GCD with some kind of damage neutral mechanic (next Malific cast does 3x damage, stacks to 3 so using cards back to back doesn't screw you out of it). Mostly waiting on the rework to see what they do.

SGE: For what it is, it's fine, but some ideas would be make Toxicon damage neutral or at least 1.5x a Dosis, have Addersting generate every 20 sec OR every time an Addersgall is used (either is fine by me), make Diskrasia ranged (25y) centered on the target (Gravity without the cast time) and give it the Toxicon 1 animation like Alphie used in the trailer (can give Toxicon 1, if we need to have a Toxicon 1 animation, the Dyskrasia animation, that'd be fine.)

Going to put questions for others, and responses to questions on mine, in expandable boxes ([ HB ] [/ HB ], if anyone wants to try), since they're tangential to the main point of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

<On Post #38. Some food for thought; I dig most of it.>

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Quote:

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WHM: Remove "Afflatus Solace/Rapture". Add "Afflatus". Afflatus causes the next GCD heal to be instant cast, cost no MP, and nourish the Blood Lily.

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Still limited by Lily charges, I presume?

Quote:

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If the Afflatus is too powerful being used on EVERYthing, then just make it Regen, Cure 2, and Medica 1 if Medica 2 and Cure 3 are considered too powerful.

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I really doubt it'd be too strong. If you think it'd make WHM too strong a "prog/nuke healer" [though... personally, I'd be cool with it actually being that for once] due to the free Cure IIIs atop Thin Air, then you could always just have it reduce MP cost instead of nullifying the MP cost entirely.

If applied basically only to Cure 2 and Medica 1 (since Regen may still be used for mobility without it anyways, depending on Dia duration remaining), then I suspect you'd get complaints about the consolidation causing "bloat APM". Just whole hog, I think; let it apply to everything, at least by level 80 or so (if you want fancy names and animations for each upgraded form).

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Add a damage reduction (5%?) effect to Plenary. Call it Pro-Shell.

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Is this on the bonus heal or on the initial cast? If the prior, does it stack? I could dig that.

Quote:

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SCH: Remove Dissipation or rework to where it no longer removes Eos.

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Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like I'd actually like Dissipation if it was just... a lot shorter and more bankable so that it could actually be an emergency tool instead of just 3 extra Energy Drains. Maybe if it just temporarily converted every 20 Fairy Gauge into Aetherflow and drained Fairy Gauge over time to enhance your healing potency by an even larger amount, so you could pull out some heads-and-shoulders best-in-role burst shields...

Idk, but I like the idea of dropping a situationally less synergetic/fitting form of output (Eos) temporarily in form of one that can be better or more burstily leveraged. I just wish it wasn't so lengthy a commitment.

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Have Lustrate upgrade via Trait to also granting a 200 potency barrier (like Celestial Intersection manages to do) and/or give it a short duration (5 sec?) sprint speed to the target like Expedience does.

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While Lustrate doing some barrier, too, would make SCH more barrier-focused... unless you really mean to give SCH a 900p sustain oGCD opposite everyone up to 3 times per minute opposite everyone else's 600-800p versions, wouldn't it also reduce SCH's sense of skill selection? Sprint speed would be cool, though.

It does make me wish we again had to choose between Eos (say, bonus regen and Defense) and Selene (utility and a bit of bonus output), though... RIP.

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Remove Energy Drain from costing Aetherflow, it now costs 10 Faerie Gauge.

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This one I don't really get the point of, though, as ED is then costing only a third of a competing action (Fey Blessing), instead of whole action, likely making it feel less deliberate. I guess it's kinda neat that you have a very granular filler to increase APM with, but... I imagine it'd seem less costly and yet all the more obviously lacking in punch.

Even if were to increase healing requirements enough that 300 oGCD potency of damage wouldn't exceed the value of 300 oGCD potency of AoE healing, I'd rather see Energy Drain remain on AF and just see buffs to remain situationally useful, such as by again giving MP (perhaps even increasing its damage dealt based on %MP and MP stolen based on %MP missing), but that's just me. The above is the broader critique.

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AST: Consolidate some things and make the burst less hell, make the CD on Draw short (15 or 20 sec?) and put Draw and Play on the GCD with some kind of damage neutral mechanic (next Malific cast does 3x damage, stacks to 3 so using cards back to back doesn't screw you out of it). Mostly waiting on the rework to see what they do.

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Probably the simplest but most impactful thing you can do for the hell opener is just make it impossible to Astrodyne the opener by now having Drawn Cards cool until they're Played (bringing AST down from effectively 3 charges of Cards to an actual 2). In doing so, you remove the 30s delay to each pull with an optimizing AST and their remove the need to hit Draw on CD (and hold it for up to a minute) in dungeons. Best yet, literally only the opener would be affected, unless they're trying to stack 90s 3-card bursts.

I'd be cool with Draw being on the GCD, but not Play. That'd make it feel much too unresponsive. I'd also rather just see the value of the Cards go up rather than AST getting personal and direct damage refunds via Malefic. Or rather, also increase the Card duration a bit, instead of just the potency, as to be a little less affected by recipient burstiness. If AST would feel too crushed thereafter by its whole party being shitters, maybe return Minor Arcana as non-CD Card spender (half the cards turning into Lord, with a falloff-AoE attack, and half turning into Lady, with a falloff-AoE heal), with something granting the occasional free Lady/Lord to ensure the button sees some use even in good parties.

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SGE: For what it is, it's fine, but some ideas would be make Toxicon damage neutral or at least 1.5x a Dosis, have Addersting generate every 20 sec OR every time an Addersgall is used (either is fine by me), make Diskrasia ranged (25y) centered on the target (Gravity without the cast time) and give it the Toxicon 1 animation like Alphie used in the trailer (can give Toxicon 1, if we need to have a Toxicon 1 animation, the Dyskrasia animation, that'd be fine.)

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I wouldn't want to see it be outright damage nuetral, since it's spammable, but a bit more oomph would be cool, especially in combination with Addersgall granting Addersting or it just being generated over time (I think I might actually slightly prefer it coming from Addersgall just because the way it makes it more easily trackable as to avoid overcapping is also more... engaging/immersive/what-have-you).

I actually like wanting/needing to be in melee range often on SGE, though, and feel like Dyskrasia being a self-centered AoE actually makes Toxicon more interesting, especially in dungeons or in add checks with lots of AoEs from/around said adds, since that becomes your means of keeping up AoE uptime outside of melee range.

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But yeah, that's my two cents' food for thought. I hope they made sense. I dig most of this.

WHM:

Yeah, Afflatus would use the Lily system as it is now, just for all the GCD heals. My thinking is "we have all these buttons yet we never use them; how can we get them to interact with what we DO use?" Afflatus Solace/Rapture are essentially "If you could proc something that gave you a free and instant cast Cure 2/Medica and nourished the Blood Lily". There are two ways of doing this. One is to have WHM's base GCDs (5, since we're not counting Cure 1) AND have 5 Afflatus abilities for each one (Solace, Rapture, and the 3 others) as separate buttons. Now we have 3 more buttons than we do now, and STILL don't use the 5 we never touch. Well, that seems inefficient. So how about, instead, having one button that toggles over to those, expending a Lily to do so? A third option is that whenever you have a Lily, they context upgrade (like RDM's Verholy/flare/scorch/resolution) into the Afflatus versions...but what if you wanted to save that Lily for an upcoming movement phase? So the resource expending toggle seems like a nice middle ground that doesn't add a lot of new buttons but does retain the deliberate use. It also has some knock-on effects such as allowing unlocking your first Afflatus ability earlier (at level 30 when Cure 1 upgrades to Cure 2 or even earlier, at level 10 when you get Medica if we wanted to go that far with it), as well as allowing future healing abilities to be added while keeping the hotbar economy, something SGE has with Eukrasia.

Two more positives are that this would be unlike any existing healer mechanic. While you might liken it to Eukrasia, Eukrasia is technically on the GCD (sorta), and is NOT limited by charges where Afflatus would be limited by number of Lilies you have and be an oGCD weave before a GCD cast. And finally, if there was a fear about "oh no, this Job could become too oGCD weave heavy!!" ...we're talking about WHM. It has the room. The only weaves WHM has right now (as "must press") are Presence of Mind and Assize on CD, and Lucid more or less on CD. That's 3 oGCDs that don't even have to be double weaved. So 3 Afflatus weaves a minute isn't a tall ask, especially since they'd make the following ability instant cast, allowing a double weave opening anyway. I'm a simpleton and even I think I could manage that well enough. :)

As for Pro-Shell, I was thinking you'd just get it with the Confession buff. Just the additional effect of "...and also take 5% less damage from all attacks". The buff is already there, so adding additional function to it and piggy-backing on that buff would prevent buff inflation, so to speak. I get that ARR's version of Protect/Shell isn't really compatible with modern FFXIV design, but a shortish (60 sec) CD instant cast with a shortish (10 sec) duration that reduces damage taken seems to fit the modern model, and the other similar healer abilities tend to have some secondary effect tacked onto theirs, so the tacked on effect here would be Plenary's normal +200 potency to AOE heals. The use case is pretty straightforward; party about to take raidwide, you mitigate some of the incoming damage and then boosted heal them after the damage is soaked. This would bring WHM in line with AST, which has Collective (bigger mit at 10% instead of 5%, but clipped if the channel is broken early) making the two distinct but in parity, and WHM having Temperance vs AST being "I have Succor and Adlo for the next 30 seconds" every 2 minutes. It would solve the problem of WHM having less party mitigation than BLACK MAGE (against magic) and SAMURAI (against physical), and a good deal less than MCH (which has both Tactician and Dismantle), and there's something wrong with a healer having less party mitigation than the selfish DPSers. This would fill that "hole" in WHM's kit that the other healers don't have.

I've said before doing Ra La that it annoyed me on each of the other healers, I had SOMETHING to hit roughly every time it did a raidwide to do mitigation...except on WHM. And that feels bad. (Yes, I know it was Ra La, but you get the point - FEELS BAD is important when we're talking playing a game that should be fun). WHM just had to stand there with fifth digits firmly inserted into rectum except the once every 2 mins you could Temperance. And that both feels bad and makes WHM weaker in balance at the same time. Doubly stupid since WHM originally had both Protect/Pro-Shell and Stoneskin in ARR/HW, so it's not like I'm asking for something that violates WHM's identity or homogenzation, especially since the thing I'm asking is distinct from what the other healers have. Parity does not equal homogenization as long as the way to arrive at the destination is somewhat different. Hell, I'd be fine with a GCD cast mitigation, but unless it had a 60 sec CD (which...I guess we have precedent now for in Pneuma and Macrocosmos...), it would just be used ALL the time making WHM go from worst to best mitigator. Which would be...odd. It seems Plenary gaining a half-protect/shell effect is the easier sell.

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SCH:

I've always hated Dissipation, and I honestly just hate the idea of it. "Yes, my loyal PARTNER that I work together alongside and even trust healing tasks to...yeah, take a hike, I don't want you around, I just want to suck power out of you for a minute" doesn't sound very...right...to me. I dislike it on a conceptual level. I also dislike the anti-synergy of "You're now locked out of a third of your kit", along with "Oh, and here's some AF, but your AF heals aren't being boosted, and by the way, if you spend them before Eos gets back, you don't even get any lolfaerie gauge". I'm not sure I could design a more anti-synergistic ability if I was actively trying to do so. I used to propose changes, but at this point, I just want it removed or the Eos dismissing portion removed. People say "But she does so little healing anyway", but if that's true...then what does it matter if she stays around? That sword (argument) cuts both ways.

On Lustrate - I just want the ability to not suck. Right now, it's bottom of the barrel in priority, which itself wouldn't be bad, but it's even behind a 100 potency damage attack. That's frankly ridiculous. It's also stupid that SCH is the OG barrier healer...yet also the ONLY healer that does not have a single oGCD barrier (Confession requires two). WHM has two charges of Benison, AST has two charges of Intersection, SGE has Haima, Panhaima, and Holos (not to mention Eukrasia spells, while not oGCDs, are still instant casts), yet what does SCH have? A 3 sec delay Confession and...........that's it. AST has arguably more barrier heals than AST, which is just sad. And while one could argue maybe the pure healers have oGCD barriers (and GCD heals and regens) and the barrier healers have GCD barriers (and oGCD heals and regens), SGE breaks both of those rules, and AST kind of does as well. And we're not talking a LARGE barrier (200 potency isn't exactly huge, but it's SOMEthing). I'd honestly be fine cutting Lustrate's heal to do that. As you know, barriers generally have more value in current FFXIV encounter design than heals do, the only exception being "1 HP Doom" mechanics, and this wouldn't really change that much since that's generally an AOE affair (and you always have Recitation Emergency Tactics Adloquium if you REALLY need to heal a single target).

Energy Drain is simple - Aetherflow is useful and has cool abilities on it. Sacred Soil (mitigation and regen), Excogitation (big heal with an insurance policy mechanic), Indomitability (snap aoe heal with good potency), and potentially Lustrate (small barrier or sprint speed boost). What does Faerie Gauge have? Well...Aetherpact. Which is too weak to be a clutch heal and too expensive in gauge to be a "take care of this for me for a minute, Eos" set and forget heal and too slow to be effective in most situations. Most of the time using it, I can't tell much difference vs not using it and just having Eos Embrace, as the power difference is not really that great when a tank is being hit on by 2 entire packs of mobs together. It might be doing something, but it's utterly unnoticeable. Fey Blessing at least would give that gauge something useful. But then you run into the problem of "burn all AF on Energy Drain INSTEAD OF INTERESTING ABILITIES THAT WOULD BE FUN TO USE...while burning all FG on Fey Blessing because it's better than nothing I guess?". I'd MUCH rather have Energy Drain on the Faerie Gauge. It still retains the "damage vs healing" mechanic now, and the 10 gauge cost preserves the exact same rate you gain and can use them in the game right now (3 per minute). Being on Faerie Gauge also allows the potential to pool them for burst windows, which is a bit MORE thought than what the spell has right now. And one of the number one requests for SCH in all the polls/surveys we've done is "decouple Energy Drain from Aetherflow".

While some people love the tug of war between healing and damage, many people really like the AF heals and WANT to use them, but feel penalized for doing so. Imagine if every time BLM used Xenoglossy, they couldn't cast another Fire spell for 60 seconds? Or every time a NIN used a Nijutsu on anything other than Houton, they weren't allowed to use any Ninki spender for the next 60 seconds? That wouldn't fly with the "fun" DPS Jobs. Yet we have SCH with these fun and interesting abilities, and we're saying "You don't get to use those except in dire emergencies or it's bad play". That just seems like bad design. ED being on Faerie Gauge preserves the tug of war gameplay, allowing players to optimize EVEN MORE (since, again, you can conserve Gauge for burst windows, and potentially could even use Dissipation's bonus AF into FG to send out a blistering 6 Energy Drains under the opener, and potentially 9 in the 4 and 6 minute bursts; all of which is higher skill ceiling than what we have now), while also freeing Aetherflow's interesting and fun abilities for general use. Finally, if Lustrate was changed to apply a barrier (ANY barrier, honestly), then it becomes an effective AF dump, so ED being needed as an AF dump is no longer a thing. Could even rework Aetherflow to, if used with AF stacks still available, converts the stacks into bonus MP as well as 10 gauge (as if they had been spent normally) so you keep that supply of EDs whether or not you spend all your AF (AF doesn't strictly NEED a spender, it just "feels bad" to overcap). If ED doesn't exist (e.g. early ShB), there's no actual "loss" to overcapping, but ignoring all that, it does feel bad, so having it either give something back (MP) or having another dump (Lustrate) absolves that.

Aetherflow should be for fun and interesting abilities, not for TRYING TO AVOID USING fun and interesting abilities so you can eek out another mere 100 potency of damage. And ED on the Faerie Gauge, because of how it's granular and can stack up to 10 charges (100 gauge) for Energy Drain or 3 charges (90 gauge) of Fey Blessing sounds more interesting and compelling as well anyway.

I know there's a certain loyalty to ED being on AF, but really consider what I said above and ask yourself if it doesn't sound more compelling and higher skill ceiling than what we have now. I think it does...

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AST:

I say all the time, some people love AST for what it is, which is why I tend not to make any suggestions on it. But they are doing a rework. For my part, I'd like AST much more if the burst APM was a bit lower, but the Job was more consistently applying buffs. Instead of cramming 3 buffs into a burst window, then using all of ONE over the course of the entire next two minutes...I'd MUCH rather the gameplay be heavily focused on handing out cards consistently throughout the fight. A card every 10 or 15 seconds seems way more compelling to me. But the Job still has the DoT + Nukespam and high APM when Malific/Draw/maybeUndraw/Identify Best Target/Malific/up-down on the D-pad to try selecting the right party member while the GCD is still casting the Malific and hopefully landing on the right person when the cast ends so you can immediately weave/Play/retargetboss/Malific/Draw...oh, and having to burn Lightspeed (instead of having it available for utility) to even manage this in the first place.

On the other hand, an alternative where Draw and Play are GCDs means with a 15 sec CD on Draw, out of every 12 GCDs (30 seconds) you have 1 Combust, 2 Draws, 2 Plays, 7 Malifics. Malific would go from being like 85% of your casts now to about 58.3% of them (when you aren't doing ANY GCD healing/Raising), which sound a lot better and less nukespammy. That should generally be considered an improvement. If it's 10 sec CD on Draw, then we're talking Combust/Draw/Play/Malific/Malific/Draw/Play/Malific/Malific/Draw/Play/Malific/Combust/repeat, which would actually make a majority of AST GCDs NOT-Malific - just there you'd have per 30 sec 1 Combust, 3 Draws, 3 Plays, 5 Malifics, so Malific would be 41.6% of your casts. And, again, this will be lower in any cases you're casting GCD heals/Raises.

It also wouldn't just be pressing a button over and over; you're actively identifying the cards and deciding who to play them on, meaning more APM since you're still targeting party members, still weaving oGCD heals, and possibly weaving oGCDs like Redraw (imagine if it had no charge limit and just a 1 sec internal CD so you had 2-3 bites at that apple before needing to Play to get the next Draw going). Does that sound boring and slow on the APM? I don't think so. And it sounds way more engaging since you're still weaving Malifics, just less of them, and instead of weaving your signature mechanic between a boring nukespam, you're weaving the boring nukespam in between your signature mechanic. Doesn't that sound like a BETTER state of affairs? Where the Malifics are a mere side diversion from your party buffing, instead of your party buffing being the diversion from your Malific spam, which doesn't even break up the Malific spam itself as you're just weaving current card oGCDs into your Malific spam.

I could be wrong, but I feel like this would be an overall improvement, making AST feel CONSISTENTLY engaging instead of overwhelming for 10 seconds and then boring for 110, and it would put its signature gameplay concept of drawing Arcanum to buff allies front and center consistently. Making the next Malific do 3x damage to be damage neutral would also give AST some burst potential, which would also make it more engaging to solo with since using cards on yourself would feel more rewarding and like a rotation; you Draw and Play to buff yourself then SLAM the enemy with a big hit followed by a still buffed smaller hit, rinse and repeat, and at a fairly high cadence. AST Crits would actually feel marginally good instead of like slightly larger feather tickles.

I honestly don't know all of what would make AST good, and I don't know what the rework will entail, but the above just sounds more fun than what we have now to me. Some people may love the 10 seconds of overwhelming, but surely they don't enjoy the 110 seconds of boredom that it costs them...?

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SGE:

Not much here other than we're not far from the same page. If Toxicon was damage neutral, then the way you generate it now would make sense. If it was NOT, then getting it from using Addersgall (think Faerie Gauge?) could work. But in either case, having it do 1.5x damage would make it a part of your rotation to use intentionally. I know people think modern SMN is easy, but something a lot of people don't realize is you ideally want to use Titan in burst, not for movement. You use it for movement if you must, not because that's the objective/ideal. Likewise, a bigger Toxicon would make it a thing you want to actively work into your rotation BUT weighing that against movement needs. Creating that tug of war of "can I get away with greeding with this now, or do I really need to save it for an upcoming movement phase?" that generates interesting choices. Even a simple damage neutrality would give it the Misery effect of optimization to place in burst when possible for damage gains, but either of the above works for me.

As for Dyskrasia/Toxicon: Because SCH already has Art of War.

Do we need two healer Jobs with not only their single target nuke being identical but ALSO their aoe being identical? If you like the fact you have to go into melee - you'd still need to weave into melee for at least Plegma, so SGE would still be incentivized to stay near-ish the packs if possible. And we are just talking dungeons at this point, as actual fights never have adds that you AOE down anymore (adds, yes, but generally spaced to where you can only single target them), and nothing would be stopping you from walking into melee if you so wanted to anyway. But unless you think Art of War would make sense as both the most powerful and the safest healer AOE in the game (having the highest damage and being ranged and being instant cast so it couldn't be wiffed like Gravity)? But that seems the less desirable of the two to me.

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Glad you dig it. I appreciate the points you raised. Hopefully this explains my thinking so that even if you still disagree, you at least understand what my pitches were based on. ^_^