Gunbreaker Limit Break

This feels like it is possibly the worst PVP Limit Break in the entire game owing to a few factors:

• The Limit break is an AoE effect, which means if the server tick says you aren't in range, your opponent doesn't get affected, so walking out of it is very easy.
• It has no CC immunity despite being a channelled effect, meaning that the moment it starts, if your are CC'd you are unable to do anything until the CC wears off or the LB has finished channelling.
• Gunbreaker has no other form of CC to combine it with. Meaning that there is no method to ensure someone is hit by it due to how long it takes to activate the actual stun.

Instead of how it currently is, could we instead have Terminal Trigger as our Limit Break and apply an effect to Terminal trigger that gives us stacks of Relentless - letting us use them on Relentless Rush: a dash to a target that applies an aoe of Relentless Shrapnel.

This should also fix a Gunbreaker's inability to actually chase a fleeing opponent thanks to their complete lack of CC in their normal kit.

i Agree with u it is the worst PVP Limit Break

It's really not the worst limit break. Even within the tank limits it's not the worst. The fact that you can get cc'd during it is an oversight that they missed when they gave it a -25% damage taken rather than a cc immunity like Warrior has. Still, it has a timing to when you deploy it that matters much like any other limit break. You can't just fire it off at random and hope for a huge return. You see people holding limit breaks a lot too thinking they're going to get that play of the game moment only to never use their limit and lose the match anyway. Somehow people also miss that just like Dragoon, you can finish it early when necessary. Sometimes a damage stack and a stun are enough to tip the balance of an engagement. Which is totally worth it even if you didn't get that 3-5 player kill by yourself. What's more if you sync up your Limit with the overtime what's the enemy going to do leave the crystal and lose? Sacrifice a member and still lose? Stand together and die in a pile and lose? This limit break is super versatile you're just using it wrong. You don't need more cc you already have so much kit for being the dps tank.

Feels bad when monk saves stun and enlightenment just for my Gnb lb.

I mean for a 60s chargetime LB that acts as a zoning tool with stat shreds its fairly alright especially when paired with Rough Divide for the movement speed and damage boost. Not every LB needs to have DRG/WHM level of impact.

It really is an LB that plays better if you don't have to be the first to engage with it so they don't slam you with every crowd control known to mankind.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I mean for a 60s chargetime LB that acts as a zoning tool with stat shreds its fairly alright especially when paired with Rough Divide for the movement speed and damage boost. Not every LB needs to have DRG/WHM level of impact.

It really is an LB that plays better if you don't have to be the first to engage with it so they don't slam you with every crowd control known to mankind.

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The point is there is no reason to pick GNB over WAR/DKR

Even RPR does a better job in terms of being mobile/deal more damage/feels more tank and have an impacful AOE/Burst LB in Frontlines.

WAR and DRK can't heal team mates when they feel like it and don't have nearly the mobility and damage that GNB does. Also, LOL@ the idea that RPR is doing more damage than GNB outside some weird Christmas land match where the enemy team stays bunched up and never targets them. If you think GNB is less tanky than RPR you must be one of those set it and forget it types with the junctions.

Maybe its just me but GNB LB just shreds. Its up all the time in every big moment, it does a ton of damage if nobody CCs you, and you can finish early for that sweet stun when you know the CC is coming.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

The point is there is no reason to pick GNB over WAR/DKR

Even RPR does a better job in terms of being mobile/deal more damage/feels more tank and have an impacful AOE/Burst LB in Frontlines.

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GNB overall is tankier with Tank Junction Nebula + shields as well as Rough Divide Heal Boosts than DRK and WAR without having any of the HP expenditure to gain value. They make for excellent point tanks and excel in drawn-out fights.

To say there is no reason to pick GNB over WAR/DRK doesn't keep in mind that you can pair a GNB with a WAR/DRK. Picking GNB does not mean you will automatically not have another tank job with you.

Getting CC'd is annoying while you're in the middle of the LB I agree, but overall I think it's an okay LB. Sometimes all I want out of a GNB LB is to end it ASAP for the Terminal Trigger stun effect and damage, alongside Double Down for a quick 30k-ish or 40k-ish if in DPS junction (with rough divide's damage increase). We do realize that is:

• In DPS junction about 80% of a range's HP, and a 3-second stun in just over 2 GCDs

• Not in DPS junction at the bare minimum, half of every job's HP with a 3-second stun in just about the same amount of time

I realize it's not that simple in the heat of battle, but in a 5-minute match where you can realistically have 3-5 opportunities to use that exact combo, I'm okay with it.

-hears 3-5 KO sounds in the distance-
Yea, worst lb by far....

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Originally Posted by Runaes

This feels like it is possibly the worst PVP Limit Break in the entire game owing to a few factors:
[LIST][*]The Limit break is an AoE effect, which means if the server tick says you aren't in range, your opponent doesn't get affected, so walking out of it is very easy.[*]It has no CC immunity despite being a channelled effect, meaning that the moment it starts, if your are CC'd you are unable to do anything until the CC wears off or the LB has finished channelling.[*]Gunbreaker has no other form of CC to combine it with. Meaning that there is no method to ensure someone is hit by it due to how long it takes to activate

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Hard disagree. GNB LB is one of the deadliest LBs in the game. (If used well in the right time and spot), I’ve had instances where i killed more than 5 people (5 stacks on, BH4+).


Thing is GNB is a Tank, which makes a lot of people think that they must head straight forward like the other Tanks and that is a huge mistake. GNB, unlike other tanks, is very independent and plays differently. You don’t want to get CCed? Sneak your LB in and don’t be obvious.

While it is true GNB has no CC of its own, you can enhance your abilities with Rough Divide buff (No Mercy) for 7 seconds, including your LB too. Limit Break can also work as a method to survive from gank squads, you got 25% dmg reduction during Relentless Rush (45% with Nebula) and finishes with an AoE Stun AND is on 60s cooldown. Not a waste imo

To be honest I’m kinda surprised GNB isn’t in the meta Category, you don’t see a lot of GNBs in PvP, let alone good ones, which is why it is common to not feel threatened when a GNB is around

Problem is you see so many perma heal and dps junction up to Diamond. Nebula is crazy good compared to both you are practically wasting a cooldown.

I haven't touched this class since season 1. I'm not sure when they added the 25% dmg reduction to their limit break, but it feels a bit better to use. I feel as though I have options about how I want to use my limit break whether I want to stall with Nebula, bait the guards, or just simply get the quick damage in. I wonder how the class is played at a higher level though...

Compared to what Gunbreaker was at start, it is much better to use now.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

The point is there is no reason to pick GNB over WAR/DKR

Even RPR does a better job in terms of being mobile/deal more damage/feels more tank and have an impacful AOE/Burst LB in Frontlines.

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Absolutely not. Reaper functions better as semi tank/support with the ability to heal its teammates with arcane crest, the only advantage is that mobility doesn't really require a target and its forward/back but it is not as tanky as Gunbreaker with nebula and it does NOT even compare to the actual damage a Gunbreaker can potentially do when played right.

On the topic on hand

Gunbreaker's lb being a short timer and having good damage with a stun makes it pretty dang good.

Having it be countered by ccing it and negating a portion of it is actually healthy because not many LBs actually have this level of interaction and least gives some form of counterplay.

If you're afraid of cc windows just make sure during rough divide/no mercy window double tap lb to release terminal trigger into double down and that alone still gives value from stun/damage potentially forcing cds.

You got multiple chances to use this lb don't always try to go big otherwise it'll make it feel terrible.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

GNB overall is tankier with Tank Junction Nebula + shields as well as Rough Divide Heal Boosts than DRK and WAR without having any of the HP expenditure to gain value. They make for excellent point tanks and excel in drawn-out fights.

To say there is no reason to pick GNB over WAR/DRK doesn't keep in mind that you can pair a GNB with a WAR/DRK. Picking GNB does not mean you will automatically not have another tank job with you.

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Nebula depends if you can target another Tank or not DRK/PLD/WAR don't depend of enemy setup to do their work.

"Excellent point tanks" against who? newbies in FL?, GNB doesn't have any form of CC (Besides limit break) can't protect your teammates or survive for long fights, in fact you are not even supposed to engage first because is so easy to shut a GNB who tries to open fights even SAM's have better chance to survive with Chiten ( at least people are afraid of even poking you) I mean your whole Limit break is fully counterable by MCH SC or MNK and that's sad.

In FL right now are DRK>WAR>PLD>>>>GNB.

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Originally Posted by Nickypooh

Gunbreaker's lb being a short timer and having good damage with a stun makes it pretty dang good.

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Not really, because all CC's has less CD than GNB Limit break.
Sure of course GNB Limit break looks devastating if you have a DRK/WAR/AST party with coordinated attacks.

But overall GNB is bad, can't make big plays alone and depends too much of your party/raid setup and how the enemy plays, want to use Nebula? sorry no Tanks in your range to target.

DRK = Invulnerable / Pull and bind /Range damage / debuff
WAR= Dive/stun/chain/slow/remove guard-debuff / cannot be CC etc.
PLD = Stun / Protect / Invulnerable /Range damage
GNB = One stun every 60 seconds if you manage to survive, no range options, no slow,bind or debuff (only lb)

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Nebula depends if you can target another Tank or not DRK/PLD/WAR don't depend of enemy setup to do their work.

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I suggest you read up on patches once in a while - Gunbreaker can target allies and self for Draw & Junction for a while now, at the cost of not gaining a free use of Burst Strike, meaning they can choose tank junction at will and are guaranteed access to at least one other Junction in a Crystalline Conflict match.

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"Excellent point tanks" against who? newbies in FL?, GNB doesn't have any form of CC (Besides limit break) can't protect your teammates or survive for long fights, in fact you are not even supposed to engage first because is so easy to shut a GNB who tries to open fights even SAM's have better chance to survive with Chiten ( at least people are afraid of even poking you) I mean your whole Limit break is fully counterable by MCH SC or MNK and that's sad.

In FL right now are DRK>WAR>PLD>>>>GNB.

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First of all, GNB excels in Crystalline Conflict, the mode it is designed around. It is an excellent "point" tank, as in the Crystal point. Nebula having up to 50% uptime, Continuation granting HP shields and Rough Divide boosting HP shields, Recuperation and allied heals all provide GNB with a numerically high effective HP to keep the Crystal from moving or being an awfully persistent fighter.

With 5 Continuation weaponskills and a Double Down per 9 weaponskills used it has decent sustain damage to boot. The Limit Break expands on the tankiness and sustained damage of the job with a bonus 3s AOE stun every 60s. The strength is being resilient against damage, the weakness is crowd control, as intended.

When I refer to anything job balance wise I will by default talk about Crystalline Conflict unless mentioned otherwise. Therefore what the FL meta is (which very obviously favours AOE heavy jobs) does not concern me.

Anyhow, please explain to me how Samurai with Chiten at a 20% duration:CD ratio (5s to 25s) and their lifesteal + shield behind multiple conditionals is more survivable than GNB at 50% uptime on Nebula and on-demand heal boost and shields.

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Not really, because all CC's has less CD than GNB Limit break.
Sure of course GNB Limit break looks devastating if you have a DRK/WAR/AST party with coordinated attacks.

But overall GNB is bad, can't make big plays alone and depends too much of your party/raid setup and how the enemy plays, want to use Nebula? sorry no Tanks in your range to target.

DRK = Invulnerable / Pull and bind /Range damage / debuff
WAR= Dive/stun/chain/slow/remove guard-debuff / cannot be CC etc.
PLD = Stun / Protect / Invulnerable /Range damage
GNB = One stun every 60 seconds if you manage to survive, no range options, no slow,bind or debuff (only lb)

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Most CC also doesnt come with a channeled -25% mitigation, stat shreds, sub-1s-interval damage pulses and a burst finisher. Closest you get is WHM's Afflatus Purgation LB.

The LB does not need a DRK WAR AST or anything to be useful, it needs an obvious point in a map where people might group up on.

Since you are comparing the other tanks as well, here some extra points you missed out.

DRK:
- invuln on a 105s recharge timer
- invuln can be tailended with crowd control to deny recovery
- any form of lifesteal (LB buff, Quietus) is extremely weak to shields and mitigation
- relies heavily on a 30s CD bubble for mitigation
- gameplay is high risk high reward with controlled HP expenditure

WAR:
- Onslaught and Orogeny cost HP to use
- Chaotic Cyclone is tied to Bloodwhetting
- job has no % mitigation, only Orogeny debuff therefore relies heavily on interupting while not getting interrupted during lifesteal
- LB on 90s, so CC immunity takes a while
- Unguarded also applies to self, locking yourself out of Guard

PLD
- invuln on 120s timer (highest with SGE) and team utility tool, meaning you can't use it at personal leisure
- protection with Guardian (cover) requires using defensive CDs to not fall over yourself (Holy Sheltron, Guard, Phalanx-Hallowed)
- Covering against high AOE comps is dangerous due to risk of taking double damage
- range damage is 1 cast every 20s with another 3 every 120s, if used on CD.

GNB:
- on demand speedboost with Rough Divide eliminating the need for Heavy

Who needs ranged when you are the arrow.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

"Excellent point tanks" against who? newbies in FL?

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They're not talking about frontline, you don't play a tank in frontline to be a point tank you play tank to be obnoxiously disruptive and set up combos for your 5+ ast/drgs and your occasional smns if you happen to have a team like that, drk is the sole reason why that happens.

So if you wanna go that route with frontline why play any tank or any job cept drk/ast or drg? They're obviously the best at what they do with just 2-3 buttons.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

want to use Nebula? sorry no Tanks in your range to target.

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They made a change that you always have nebula by using junction on yourself/no target.

https://www.twitch.tv/aeonxii/clip/F...8UktPeDjKu1ug2

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Originally Posted by Rubytoe

https://www.twitch.tv/aeonxii/clip/F...8UktPeDjKu1ug2

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Granted the enemy team was surprisingly lemming to let a GNB 1v5 spin at full duration...

Very satisfying nontheless. Proves how devastating it can be when paired with allied AOE support like Salted Earth or Black Shift Resolution.

I am late to the thread, but GNBs LB is incredibly strong. The amount of burst it offers, not just for yourself but your entire team and the way it has great area control makes it fit well into the identity of being versatile. My only real criticism is just being able to be CC while doing the spin, which personally I wouldn't have a problem with if GNB was a dps class. But as a tank, the bit is you should be a defensive/unstoppable force, so being immune to it would just fit in well. Also the issue of it having issues if you chase people, where they are visually in your aoe but don't actually get affected because of how the server registers positions sometimes. But that's less of an issue with the ability ad more to do with the game itself.

So to clarify since people are missing the point.
Gunbreaker's LB can not immediately go into the follow-up, it takes at least 1 GCD worth of channelling to activate the stun. Whilst not likely due to server latency and average pvp reactions being kinda meh, it is possible to CC a Gunbreaker as they start their LB and they will not be able to activate the stun and damage portion of the LB as they are CC'd. And since it's a channelled effect, just like Dragoon LB, you can just guard and negate it before the Gunbreaker can even activate the stun.
Unless you managed to purify a CC immediately before you activate LB giving you immunity, which doesn't make you immune to knockback anyway, you cannot rough divide in and get the LB stun.
The LB is heavily reliant on server tick. Your move speed boost from Rough divide will not make up for the fact that someone can literally walk away before the stun goes off and you won't get the stun even if your client says you are right on top of them.
The LB is a Gunbreaker's only source of CC. If your opponent has their purify up, you will not be able to CC them, which results in situations where an opponent can get hit, cleanse, then run off to a health pack.

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Originally Posted by Runaes

So to clarify since people are missing the point.
[1]Gunbreaker's LB can not immediately go into the follow-up, it takes at least 1 GCD worth of channelling to activate the stun. Whilst not likely due to server latency and average pvp reactions being kinda meh, [2] it is possible to CC a Gunbreaker as they start their LB and they will not be able to activate the stun and damage portion of the LB as they are CC'd. [3] p
And since it's a channelled effect, just like Dragoon LB, you can just guard and negate it before the Gunbreaker can even activate the stun.
Unless you managed to purify a CC immediately before you activate LB giving you immunity, which doesn't make you immune to knockback anyway, you cannot rough divide in and get the LB stun.
[4] The LB is heavily reliant on server tick. Your move speed boost from Rough divide will not make up for the fact that someone can literally walk away before the stun goes off and you won't get the stun even if your client says you are right on top of them.
The LB is a Gunbreaker's only source of CC. If your opponent has their purify up, you will not be able to CC them, which results in situations where an opponent can get hit, cleanse, then run off to a health pack.

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I see your points but I need to correct and add on a bit.

1.) The minimum time between Relentless Rush and Terminal Trigger (finisher) is actually one second, 4s is the duration and the damage ticks are roughly 0.8s apart from startup.

2.) The CC should only lock out manual activation, Terminal Trigger fires automatically upon expiration of Relentless Rush.

3.) In high level play forcing Guard and Purify out is a huge advantage if your team is ready to follow-up on it. If you force Guard, it means someone else now can kill them easier. Likewise, CC placed on you with Relentless Rush mitigation up means less CC on your teammates. These are all active resources in pvp and the more you can force out the better. Even if you just force retreat to healthpack or Elixir, that is still really good since you take off pressure from your team or yourself.

4.) Actually your latency to the server has a far greater impact than server ticks alone. With 10ms you hit and dodge things with ease, 50 works too, 80+ is where it gets funky and at 120+ it feels miserable. Source - tested myself.

Not being able to activate TT when CC'd means you also cannot use purify because it is a channel.
Maybe if they let you purify to cancel the channel and then it auto fired when you purified, then sure. But as it stands, if you use a hard CC on a GNB who uses LB, you will get 100% duration out of that CC because they are not able to cleanse it themselves.

Yeah, it’s a terrible limit break. It needs a buff. A big one. I am not biased at all.



/s

Just pop purify before spinning lol