Feedback, A Compromise

With every community, there is a loud minority, and a silent majority. When changes are being made for the loud minority, people from the silent majority speak up and say that they don't like the changes or would prefer it in some other way. To put it simply, the feedback we are sending is a jumble of mixed signals, not helped by the way feedback is received.

You can see this with the recent 2 Minute Rotation feedback and response. Some people really like the change, some people don't. My opinion on the matter doesn't really matter, as that's not what I'm talking about here.

Forums were excellent several years ago, but times have changed. While I think the forums should stay as a method of receiving bug reports and more long-form feedback discussions, there needs to be an easy way for in-game players to participate in providing feedback.

I believe the way Genshin Impact does this would work well for FFXIV. Using the in-game mail system, players are sent a link to a feedback form they can complete about recent additions and changes. If there's something being brought up in the forums a lot, a form can be sent out about those issues too. The forms are usually a mixture of polls for various issues as well as areas you can write out feedback in more detail.

As an example, if the developers wanted feedback on job balance...

They would sent out a link to the feedback form through mail. By clicking on the link inside the sent mail, they would be taken to a web page with a series of questions. The first few questions would be multiple choice:

1. How do you feel about the current 2 Minute Rotation change?
A - Strong Like
B - Like
C - Neutral
D - Dislike
E - Strong Dislike

X - Don't Know

2. How do you feel about the current state of Healers?
A - Strong Like
B - Like
C - Neutral
D - Dislike
E - Strong Dislike

X - Don't know

And so on, and so forth.

Of course, multiple choice isn't perfect. So, after each question or at the end, there would be short answer sections where you could explain why you chose what you did.

But this is not enough.

After a form is sent out, around two weeks afterwards, there needs to be an effort to ensure there is a compromise. If one particular type of player wins out in the polls, the others deserve something too. For example, if there was a heavy favor in jobs being unique, then jobs would still pump out a minimum amount of DPS so they could remain viable in difficult content- similar to Stormblood's balancing.


I think, ultimately, this is the best way to go about receiving feedback, and will be good for the future health of the game and its community. Everyone's happy, ye?

I once would have agreed with this but I don't necessarily think this is a good compromise.

First and foremost because the number of people that wouldn't necessarily understand the implication, or even the actuality to many of these systems (e.g., two-minute meta/rotation) - Which is a very, very big problem in and of itself. - As these answers can come from people who don't understand it can have implications on those that are most impacted by it. Even if you are to also provide an "Additional Comments" box for people to expand. - [Edit] Just to add, personally I would be inclined to ignore the question on the state of healers in and of itself (I can only speak of what devs have responded to when prodded to this) - But not everyone would appropriately abstain when they should. Sure, I level them and sometimes use them in dungeons, and I might find them OK, but I don't really think answering it would be fair on people that would be impacted far, far more than I would ever be by it.

I would even go so far in to say that the problem isn't necessarily getting the feedback - It's '1) Actioning that feedback' and '2) the consideration of the fact there are still other players regardless of what the feedback might say.'.

The biggest problem in many cases is they see a particular piece of feedback, and in some cases they also action it, and of quite a few they action, they completely forget that there's still another group of players on the other end of the spectrum. So they're eagerly trying to address that feedback, without factoring in the wider scope.

Like, they have stated they have made many changes because people have complained that things are too hard, or take too much time, but they have literally gone so hard on this, that they've actually lost sight on what people were saying in the first place. Much so to the extent that "Things are too hard" has been arguably substituted into them just outright removing anything that would cause a player to make a mistake. It's the same thing with the relic - People complained it took too much time or that they have to engage in a particular piece of content, even after Shadowbringers - So their response was to turn everything into a Tomestone pump and dump which isn't even greater than the tomestone cap.

Don't get me wrong - It's all nice and stuff, but none of it matters much when it's the actioning it that's actually the part that's flawed. There is no "Perhaps there should be a middle-ground here" in many of the instances where they action feedback - and I don't see this being a cascade for change of that, they just genuinely need to reflect harder in quite a few of these instances.

Let's take the 'Healers' question for example - It doesn't really matter when there's already been a record to say "If you want harder healing then go do ultimates" - It doesn't actually address anything.

2 minute meta?
While I dislike it, I don't think its the most pressing issue, I'd certainly like less "raid" buffs in favour of more unique buffs or target buffs, but I really dont think 2 minute meta is the worst thing in the world just limiting on job design making every job a burst job.

Healer design?
I think healer design is actually a massive issue, not with just healers but jobs that also "offer" utility because healers have so much healing they never really give up damage for that healing, meaning that utility (lets say magick barrier, DV ECT.) isn't useful in 1. helping you survive (because outgoing damage is predictable) 2. saving healer GCD's, they already got more then enough OCGDs, most healers also want a active decision making instead of just a "mini" rotation or one button, I feel like healers are most fun when you're fitting in damage as much as possible while also keeping your team alive, not being able to do so both at the same time


Personally I rather they "fix" healer design and look at tank design aswell, because I really am starting to feel no sense of direction on non dps jobs.

It’s a good idea, but considering they’d have to translate any/all information from English to Japanese, which (apparently) is extremely difficult to do in a timely and cost-effective manner, I think they’d say ‘this is too much work to be feasible’.

Much like how they often say the reason they don’t/can’t really listen to a lot of NA/EU feedback is because of the (supposed) difficulty of having to translate forum posts from [native language] to Japanese.

I think adding in Surveys via the mail as well as when you sub and unsub on the page would be amazing way to get a lot of consistent feed back. I also feel they need to turn on youtube comments as well as look at other websites. I understand that they are japanese,but Square Enix is a billion dollar company, I feel they can expand upon their team for feed back and their efforts to amass feed back for the state of the game.

When we take a look at how a majority is silent with most games it's usually due to how our and many other forums are, people with nothing better to do then dilute and at times troll away perfectly good feed back, and while yes it is the job of the company to sort through and gain ffed back, I feel SE is not willing to maintain the forums and keep trolling to a minimum. But with them javing better ways to get fed back, we'll also need them to more forthcoming with their road maps and design choices as time goes on.

Can you truly be certain that Square Enix doesn't do surveys? It's a standard practice for companies usually.

I received one in the past, referencing my account and subscription information, showing it was directly from the developers and not a marketing team like usual. Some others on these forums said they received it as well at the time.

A problem with surveys is that, just because everyone is in favor of something, doesn't mean it's a good idea and sometimes a game developer has to put their foot down and say players are wrong. It is up to the game developer to do a long train of thought that leads them to conclude this thing that everyone wants would ruin the game in the long term, because sometimes it might. Many players only think selfishly of what they want or don't consider the effect of a change long-term, or the various consequences on other players than themselves.

Personally, I prefer solutions that address everyone's concerns instead of just some people's. For example, with job complexity, just being able to switch between a simple or complex version might allow both sides to be happy.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Can you truly be certain that Square Enix doesn't do surveys? It's a standard practice for companies usually.

I received one in the past, referencing my account and subscription information, showing it was directly from the developers and not a marketing team like usual. Some others on these forums said they received it as well at the time.

A problem with surveys is that, just because everyone is in favor of something, doesn't mean it's a good idea and sometimes a game developer has to put their foot down and say players are wrong. It is up to the game developer to do a long train of thought that leads them to conclude this thing that everyone wants would ruin the game in the long term, because sometimes it might. Many players only think selfishly of what they want or don't consider the effect of a change long-term, or the various consequences on other players than themselves.

Personally, I prefer solutions that address everyone's concerns instead of just some people's. For example, with job complexity, just being able to switch between a simple or complex version might allow both sides to be happy.

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In my 10 years of playing XIV I have never got a survey about the state of the game. I have in other MMOs, I have from game companies, but I have never been given a Survey about my feed back for the state of XIV. If you have i'd love to see it, but i'd rather not play what if with this type of topic, It's a very simple yes or no that they do it or don't and so far no one has come forward saying it's done. And this has been a regular point bought up by people for some time.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

In my 10 years of playing XIV I have never got a survey about the state of the game. I have in other MMOs, I have from game companies, but I have never been given a Survey about my feed back for the state of XIV. If you have i'd love to see it

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https://i.imgur.com/C7czCdO.png
https://i.imgur.com/adUtycU.png

They do send out surveys but they only ask silly questions like "what's your favorite minion/mount" or those kinds of things. Nothing to actually give proper feedback.

When you unsub they do have the stereotypical "why are you cancelling" so there's something? Not a whole lot though.

Both (E) for me.
The game become so stupidly easy, remove so many MMORPG aspect, SE stop doing innovation and taking any risk, so many players do not want to listen negative feedback, just want to listen good things (PS I do not think FF14 has good community, instead it has really bad community), AND FALL GUYS CHEATS DRAMA (really?! need cheat???) , just cuz making player happy.
Piety and Tenacity should also get fix. Man, there are just way too many issue to this game.
I am really disappointed to the direction of the game now, this is 1st time I got since I started play this game from 2.0 , and im not planning to purchase 7.0 at all.

From what I gathered, their surveys are mostly PR-friendly and/or often avoids asking for gameplay/job related feedbacks lol.

After looking through my email. I did get one survey, and nothing in it was trying to gague the state of the game, just how I got info.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

They do send out surveys but they only ask silly questions like "what's your favorite minion/mount" or those kinds of things. Nothing to actually give proper feedback.

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This one actually asked proper questions that allowed me to suggest things I want and what I do and don't like about the game. The survey was aimed at veteran players (it mentioned how long I had been subscribed if you read it carefully). It also mentioned it would correlate my answers with character data from the game, so this survey was tied to information in the game which is not normal for a marketing survey.

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When you unsub they do have the stereotypical "why are you cancelling" so there's something? Not a whole lot though.

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That is significant though because it allows them to catch the reasons for people leaving so that they can address them. They also send out a survey after any support interaction.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

From what I gathered, their surveys are mostly PR-friendly and/or often avoids asking for gameplay/job related feedbacks lol.

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Yes, that is true of the last survey they did, which was posted on the lodestone, but this one was different and allowed for proper feedback. I recall it even asking for anything you would want to say to Yoshi-P or something along those lines. I don't feel like completing it over again (not even sure why it lets me).

In general it would be nice if they outlined what exactly feedback entails, since apparently this forum at least does not count. There is no "Feedback" or "Suggestion" forum, just bug reports and discussions.

For example, how many filters does something have to pass through and where do we post it? We never get any feedback from community reps or devs on the forums other than "Thread is locked, cya"

So this results in stuff like Blood Weapon still not being on stacks on EW release when Requiescat and Inner Release were fixed, and then them acting surprised and going "Well that wasn't in our feedback!"

Where IS your feedback? Does your feedback consist of content creators complaining at you directly at fanfest? Because it sure feels like that's the only time you deem anyone worthy of a response. The lack of involvement in the forums has resulted in the etiquette taking a nosedive and people openly shitposting and insulting each other in threads.

Yeah the feedback not being pooled in a consistent manner is a major issue