when will this lazy devs fix the alliance roulette?

even after the """fix""" they did its still only tower raids.
just move them to MSQ roulette and let people that want to do alliance RAIDS more that 3 extremely badly made ones. :mad:

They applied the fix that everyone said would fix it.

Some people feel they get the other raids more now. Some like yourself feel they don't. So what more is there to say? If you don't want to do alliance raids then don't do the alliance roulette.

Also, you said the first 3 were made badly. They were not. They are really great raids, our item level just outgear them and make the mechanics irrelevant. If you ever did them in ARR or minimum item level, you'd understand how sophisticated and full of mechanics they are and how they can actually wipe, or near-wipe, the whole alliance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They applied the fix that everyone said would fix it.

Some people feel they get the other raids more now. Some like yourself feel they don't. So what more is there to say? If you don't want to do alliance raids then don't do the alliance roulette.

Also, you said the first 3 were made badly. They were not. They are really great raids, our item level just outgear them and make the mechanics irrelevant. If you ever did them in ARR or minimum item level, you'd understand how sophisticated and full of mechanics they are and how they can actually wipe, or near-wipe, the whole alliance.

---

Dude, l don't want to wipe to waste my time. I saw a wipe on the first mob group in world of darkness once. Someone quit right away, and l gladly followed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They applied the fix that everyone said would fix it.

Some people feel they get the other raids more now. Some like yourself feel they don't. So what more is there to say? If you don't want to do alliance raids then don't do the alliance roulette.

Also, you said the first 3 were made badly. They were not. They are really great raids, our item level just outgear them and make the mechanics irrelevant. If you ever did them in ARR or minimum item level, you'd understand how sophisticated and full of mechanics they are and how they can actually wipe, or near-wipe, the whole alliance.

---

next to the rest of the raids in the relevant patches/expansions they are really badly made.
as for the fix its clearly did not fix shit. they need to move this 3 raids to a different roulette.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samsaraSaber

next to the rest of the raids in the relevant patches/expansions they are really badly made.
as for the fix its clearly did not fix shit. they need to move this 3 raids to a different roulette.

---

The fix was not to prevent CT. It was to prevent it being selected when it was not the highest level raid their job could access due to unequipping gear.

So why are you doing an alliance raid roulette if you don't want to do alliance raids? I personally avoided it since the roulette started existing except when someone wanted me to do it with them for the very reason that I don't want to be caught up in really long alliance raids, nor really boring ones that are no longer fun due to item level.

If they synced them all to Minimum Item level it would be a lot better, but I don't know if it would make me do it much because again they can be quite long regardless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The fix was not to prevent CT. It was to prevent it being selected when it was not the highest level raid their job could access due to unequipping gear.

So why are you doing an alliance raid roulette if you don't want to do alliance raids? I personally avoided it since the roulette started existing except when someone wanted me to do it with them for the very reason that I don't want to be caught up in really long alliance raids, nor really boring ones that are no longer fun due to item level.

If they synced them all to Minimum Item level it would be a lot better, but I don't know if it would make me do it much because again they can be quite long regardless.

---

as i love the rest of them? but over years is never any thing but this 3 really bad ones. the more expansion we get the less fun this 3 are.

This change was never going to "fix" alliance roulette because ilevel cheese was never the main cause of "Crystal Tower Roulette" in the first place.

Fact is, CT is the lowest common denominator. It's lowest level and the only set everyone is guaranteed to have unlocked. In order to get Nier in roulette, every single person has to be level 80+ and have the raid unlocked. Meanwhile it only takes a single player below level 60 to toss the other 23 people in CT. It will ALWAYS be the most common raid, ilevel cheese or no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samsaraSaber

even after the """fix""" they did its still only tower raids.
just move them to MSQ roulette and let people that want to do alliance RAIDS more that 3 extremely badly made ones. :mad:

---

We've been waiting for the devs to do a lot of things, citizen. Sometimes feedback sent to the devs will just go into one ear and out the other.




We protect what is ours.

The ARR alliance raid isn't "badly made". It's just so dumbed down due to ilvl cheese and ability redistribution that it's a chore now. But at least there we had a reason for having three parties unlike what we have now with the current one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

The ARR alliance raid isn't "badly made". It's just so dumbed down due to ilvl cheese and ability redistribution that it's a chore now. But at least there we had a reason for having three parties unlike what we have now with the current one.

---

they was never that good and they got dumbed down on top

Nothing could really change the CT Raids.
I doubt even SE saying they'd be going back to revamp them could change that.

Unless they Got rid of the Hard Poetics Cap, and made Past Expac Tome Gear have no story requirements at all for those that overlevel extremely fast.

That said, it was obvious that the Ilvl change was a: Get it to "Work as Intended" Change that I actually was asking for in its general outcome.

While I may prefer more active and fun raids. The Luck of the Roulette is still a thing. and until they get people to require other AR Raids as mandatory. Nothing will change.

Also get ready. in some months FFXIV WILL OPEN TO XBOX PLAYERS.

So get used to a rapid influx of CT Raids for a short while into Dawntrail.

Otherwise, just queue direct like others do.

For example when they are after AR Coins for upgrade trade-ins, or item/glamour farm(if you ain't running a PF for them.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

This change was never going to "fix" alliance roulette because ilevel cheese was never the main cause of "Crystal Tower Roulette" in the first place.

Fact is, CT is the lowest common denominator. It's lowest level and the only set everyone is guaranteed to have unlocked. In order to get Nier in roulette, every single person has to be level 80+ and have the raid unlocked. Meanwhile it only takes a single player below level 60 to toss the other 23 people in CT. It will ALWAYS be the most common raid, ilevel cheese or no.

---

Kinda right but no. Its literally because CT is required for msq and that skewes the roulette

i doubt anyone who really wanted that change on their own accord believed it would change significantly.
its more of a very little change some might not even notice. i'm still glad they did it though.

So long as all the alliance raids are in the same roulette, Crystal Tower ones will be heavily biased. Lowest level, only ones required for MSQ.

Because the only fix is to put crystal tower into MSQ roulette where it belongs.

The only real way to make the CT raids fun again is to ilvl cap them. Set lota to ilvl 90, syrcus to 110, and WoD to 130. WoD is the least effected by ilvl changes, but this would heavily influence mechanics seen in the others.



Or, as a really fun change, make alliance roulette min ilvl only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The only real way to make the CT raids fun again is to ilvl cap them. Set lota to ilvl 90, syrcus to 110, and WoD to 130. WoD is the least effected by ilvl changes, but this would heavily influence mechanics seen in the others.



Or, as a really fun change, make alliance roulette min ilvl only.

---

Jobs have been so badly potency crept since ARR you would need to make it MINE to even see half of circus tower mechanics and LOTA isn’t much better

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The only real way to make the CT raids fun again is to ilvl cap them. Set lota to ilvl 90, syrcus to 110, and WoD to 130. WoD is the least effected by ilvl changes, but this would heavily influence mechanics seen in the others.



Or, as a really fun change, make alliance roulette min ilvl only.

---

It's not enough. Level 50 has been reduced to a tutorial at this point. You could make CT hit as hard as you want, but you could still essentially AFK through it all because you only have to hit one button or combo 90% of the time on a given class.

If CT was revamped, it would also need a revamp of all jobs to make it engaging. If SE could do that I'd take it over what we have now. Just putting CT in its own roulette seems easier though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

It's not enough. Level 50 has been reduced to a tutorial at this point. You could make CT hit as hard as you want, but you could still essentially AFK through it all because you only have to hit one button or combo 90% of the time on a given class.

If CT was revamped, it would also need a revamp of all jobs to make it engaging. If SE could do that I'd take it over what we have now. Just putting CT in its own roulette seems easier though.

---

You must not remember the old days of Syrcus. It was probably more difficult on launch than WoD was. There are mechanics in that place no one has seen since 2014. LotA probably wouldn't really be much harder, thats true. Really the only mechanics you ignore are the towers on King Behemoth, and some of the aoe patterns on the last boss. No one drags skeletons out on the platforms on the first boss either, because its easier to just heal through the damage.


But Syrcus. Oh man if people had to do syrcus mechanics they'd be completely lost. One of my friends had someone in syrcus yell at the alliance for not taking the purple orbs to the lightning towers because it made ancient flare hit harder. Little did they know about Daybreak. 2nd boss? No one has to kill the adds because DPS is high enough to kill him before he wipes the party. No one has seen the jumping platforms in ages, let alone the robots you have to split into parties to deal with, and tethering them properly.

Its almost like the msq makes them mandatory or something

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Kinda right but no. Its literally because CT is required for msq and that skewes the roulette

---

There was a time when CT was not required for the MSQ and it was still always CT in the roulette. It's because it's the lowest level. But being required just adds to it even more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There was a time when CT was not required for the MSQ and it was still always CT in the roulette. It's because it's the lowest level. But being required just adds to it even more.

---

Yep, if even one person queues up on their level 50-59 alt job, boom 23 other people get CT.

I can only speak anecdotally, but I definitely have seen Crystal Tower come up quite a bit less since the changes to roulette requirements. I actually see people leaving Ivalice and Nier raids now because they wanted Crystal Tower (probably the people who exploited by removing their armor before).

The devs accomplished what they set out to do, in my opinion. They never promised it would eliminate Crystal Tower from the roulette, or even make all raids appear at equal rates.

24-player alliance raids don't belong in the same roulette as 4-player MSQ dungeons. Also, if you put them in there then the people who want Crystal Tower will leave if they don't get it, and it will not help people trying to complete their ARR story. The rewards should not be the same, either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I can only speak anecdotally, but I definitely have seen Crystal Tower come up quite a bit less since the changes to roulette requirements. I actually see people leaving Ivalice and Nier raids now because they wanted Crystal Tower (probably the people who exploited by removing their armor before).

The devs accomplished what they set out to do, in my opinion. They never promised it would eliminate Crystal Tower from the roulette, or even make all raids appear at equal rates.

24-player alliance raids don't belong in the same roulette as 4-player MSQ dungeons. Also, if you put them in there then the people who want Crystal Tower will leave if they don't get it, and it will not help people trying to complete their ARR story. The rewards should not be the same, either.

---

Seeing people leave ivalice and nier happened in many runs before the fix already in my experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samsaraSaber

they was never that good and they got dumbed down on top

---

Mate, back then they at least tried and had ideas. Nowadays raids are just glorified dungeon corridors with six times the people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

Mate, back then they at least tried and had ideas. Nowadays raids are just glorified dungeon corridors with six times the people.

---

Because that's how most players approach content. They're dumped in a group with 23 strangers they don't care about, they want their loot as fast as possible so they can get to the next duty with a group of different random strangers as fast as possible for more loot.

Why would developers waste time and money developing more assets than needed if they would end up ignored and unappreciated by the majority of players because they want to be "optimal" and "efficient"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Because that's how most players approach content. They're dumped in a group with 23 strangers they don't care about, they want their loot as fast as possible so they can get to the next duty with a group of different random strangers as fast as possible for more loot.

Why would developers waste time and money developing more assets than needed if they would end up ignored and unappreciated by the majority of players because they want to be "optimal" and "efficient"?

---

It's because they're playing an MMO. They're not being dumped into anything.
And having something that's not a corridor and requires a modecum of effort isn't wasted dev resources either. What does having 3 different mechanics that each group has to solve (the reason why it's an alliance in the first place, mind) to do with being efficient? Every single good videogame tries to let people have fun yet in XIV suggesting getting back what used to be in it is met with "but now I cannot farm fast enough while being bored out of my mind". Give me a break.

Honestly, the CT raids would live 'better' if they were just incorporated into the MSQ roulette, since it's something that apparently has the capacity to incorporate different fight modes (trial and dungeon) in one. They're part of the MSQ after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You must not remember the old days of Syrcus.

---

I haven't so much as set foot in the alliance roulette in years, so you'd be right. Maybe I'm not remembering how hectic the raids can be, but the complexity (or lack of it) at level 50 is still needs to be addressed. Even if you had to deal with mechanics, it would feel more like running around during boss downtime than anything else since you'd barely have to keep track of your rotation. That's especially true for DPS since the rotation is the class. At least tanks and healers on paper have other stuff to look out for.

Level 50's simplicity isn't limited to being a problem in AR either, it hurts all 50 content, but CT is the worst of all. I just wouldn't want to see the problem only half fixed by leaving level 50 jobs as dull as they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

It's because they're playing an MMO. They're not being dumped into anything.
And having something that's not a corridor and requires a modecum of effort isn't wasted dev resources either. What does having 3 different mechanics that each group has to solve (the reason why it's an alliance in the first place, mind) to do with being efficient? Every single good videogame tries to let people have fun yet in XIV suggesting getting back what used to be in it is met with "but now I cannot farm fast enough while being bored out of my mind". Give me a break.

---

Believe me, it causes more frustration than pleasure when they try to put alliance responsibility. Even the most simplest of duties in Labyrinth such as each alliance having to have 4 people stand in their panels so that other groups can damage their respective target, is almost always met with a few not obeying directions and messing it up for the other. Sure it doesnt cause wipes (for the most part) but its that level of "ugh" is why the majority of the playerbase hates CT; alongside it being too easy now.

Im with you that I wish they made alliance raids more complex, but this is a casual MMO and since Alliance Raids are the most casualest of content now, it'd be detrimental if they start going back to CT design. I think efficiency is a factor but I believe more so avoiding frustration is what drives the raid team to make these simple corridor raids. Again, just because Im saying this doesnt mean I 100% like it, Im just telling you how it is with this game.

Maybe they should make two versions of alliance raid. Casual version for DFs, complex version for pre-mades

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Believe me, it causes more frustration than pleasure when they try to put alliance responsibility. Even the most simplest of duties in Labyrinth such as each alliance having to have 4 people stand in their panels so that other groups can damage their respective target, is almost always met with a few not obeying directions and messing it up for the other. Sure it doesnt cause wipes (for the most part) but its that level of "ugh" is why the majority of the playerbase hates CT; alongside it being too easy now.

Im with you that I wish they made alliance raids more complex, but this is a casual MMO and since Alliance Raids are the most casualest of content now, it'd be detrimental if they start going back to CT design. I think efficiency is a factor but I believe more so avoiding frustration is what drives the raid team to make these simple corridor raids. Again, just because Im saying this doesnt mean I 100% like it, Im just telling you how it is with this game.

---

Oh I don't disagree. I'm just saying give me anything, even if it's easy so I got something to do. Just make it one mechanic and party B and C could potentially help out or whatever. Kinda how it is when all healers of a group die. Literally anything. Anything. All I do is press AoE #1 (unless you're a DRG) while ignoring/skipping mechanics. That is honestly abysmal in terms of design.

At least give me the option, like a min ilvl roulette or amp up the incentives to use PF for that. The game sits on a veritable treasure trove of content yet it might as well not exist. It's a shame, really.

Crystal Tower is a main story quest raid. In Novice Network yesterday, I had three people asking if we'd help queue up to get them through them for their story.

The OTHER raids have absolutely no benefits or rewards. What could I possibly gain from choosing to run a level 70 raid? So nobody actively chooses these.

My guess they will make the crystal tower raids 4 person and add them to the MSQ roulette. That would fix the problems and stop the complaints about the alliance raid roulette.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hynaku

My guess they will make the crystal tower raids 4 person and add them to the MSQ roulette. That would fix the problems and stop the complaints about the alliance raid roulette.

---

May as well make them soloable with Raha, Doga and Unei as duty support

I mean, at this point, it's just getting ridiculous to read these threads.

Community complains about balance of jobs, SE balances jobs, homogenising them in the process, community complains about homogenisation.

Community complains about difficulty spikes in MSQ, SE makes MSQ easy and more approachable, community complains about braindead easy MSQ.

Community complains about CT raids and ilvl cheese, SE institutes ilvl lock (hurting other players in the process, but that's besides the point), community still complains about CT popping (as if we didn't know this was already going to happen).

Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new players to get used to the later 24 man raids, while also increasing the chance that players might not even unlock them. Also, will have the consequence of moving the most common raid popping up to Void Ark.

Meanwhile, a poster asks for something completely innocent and inconsequential, such as more hotbars, the entire community jumps down their throat, telling them they're not being efficient and playing the game wrong.

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

Another change they can make with the Alliance Raid roulette is to base the EXP you get from it on how many raids you have unlocked. This is to encourage people to actually unlock and do the Lv60/70/80 raids. (And the Lv90 raids once 7.0 rolls around).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erzaa

I mean, at this point, it's just getting ridiculous to read these threads.

---

So much this (all the things listed).

Quote:

---

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

---

I agree that most of the time, people throw out self-centered hot takes in this community when what is needed is to take into account all sides and come up with a solution that works for everyone and addresses all concerns.

I don't think they should ignore people's feedback, because it is important to listen, it is just up to the people running an MMORPG to know which feedback to ignore, which feedback to listen to and when to come up with their own solutions because all of the solutions presented by the community cause another problem somewhere else.

Yoshi-P mentioned quite recently how it is his job to figure out what to listen to and what not to and I agree completely. That has to be one of the hardest parts of doing his job, because most other people who manage an MMORPG didn't exactly see success and often when someone takes over a successful MMORPG, it goes downhill.

In his position, you either know what is good feedback or you don't and the success of the game depends on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erzaa

I mean, at this point, it's just getting ridiculous to read these threads.

Community complains about balance of jobs, SE balances jobs, homogenising them in the process, community complains about homogenisation.

Community complains about difficulty spikes in MSQ, SE makes MSQ easy and more approachable, community complains about braindead easy MSQ.

Community complains about CT raids and ilvl cheese, SE institutes ilvl lock (hurting other players in the process, but that's besides the point), community still complains about CT popping (as if we didn't know this was already going to happen).

Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new players to get used to the later 24 man raids, while also increasing the chance that players might not even unlock them. Also, will have the consequence of moving the most common raid popping up to Void Ark.

Meanwhile, a poster asks for something completely innocent and inconsequential, such as more hotbars, the entire community jumps down their throat, telling them they're not being efficient and playing the game wrong.

At this point, SE really needs to stop listening to player feedback and just make the game they want to make. The playerbase really don't know what they're asking for and just throw out half-assed ideas with no thought to the consequences.

---

Have you ever considered that the community is not a hive mind?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Have you ever considered that the community is not a hive mind?

---

Of course I know this. And maybe my last line was hyperbolic. Jeeqbit is probably more right.

But feedback needs to be considered carefully, well thought out, how it will impact everyone, before it's given and implemented.

Throwing out statements like CT should be a 4 man or whatever, helps nobody.

There was a time when ARR dungeons had multiple rooms, I remember getting laughed at my first time when I asked to explore it.

Castrum used to feel like an actual assault on a base, now it's just another by the numbers dungeon.

Stuff like that comes about and diminishes the good parts of the game.