[Graphic Update Feedback] Miqo'te Female Eyes and Face 3 Feedback

I'm really trying to protect my excitement for these soon to come graphic updates, because of how positively it will impact the games environment. Giving us a truly more immersive and dynamically textured world. From grass that looks like cut paper which has been overlapped to soon to be full and flourishing. However, I like many others have a deep concern regarding what these graphic improvements will mean for the characters we've grown so attached to all these years. A concern that almost treads dysmorphia. I've been keeping posted on these updates and I feel quite disheartened.

https://i.imgur.com/TApHuRb.png

Looking at the Miqo mock-up images they seem like two different characters. The eyes most of all. They are significantly bigger and much more animal-like in a way that changes the rest of the face's composition entirely. While when I had first entered character creation having this new eye size and shape as an option may have been appealing. Now it just feels like the eyes lose the seriousness and intensity I love for a more playful and dough-eyed appearance. The second issue I take with the proposed new eyes is the lack of vibrance. The old coloring almost glows while the new is so dim and cloudy- The hue changes from bright yellow-gold to honey. I worry the bold greens on my WoL will be so much darker.

The Lips also receive a drastic change. The top lip no longer has the same pronounced cupids bow that I felt gave the race a feline like smile, while the new bottom lip looks less defined like it blurs out into the surrounding skin. I can appreciate that the realistic texture and sheen we gain looks gorgeous but not at the expense of the supple smile we currently enjoy. The signature facial tattoos also seem to go from a warm reddish brown to much cooler brown.

I'm not sure whether my eyes deceive me and its just the other changes in facial features or the new shadows, But the new face looks so much rounder and fuller at the cheeks. If I didn't know better I would think these were two different face/jaw shapes.
Likewise, The hair looks very different, about two shades darker. I love the new texture and details, However I feel that we sacrifice a brighter color with more highlights and lowlights to achieve it. I truly hope that Square takes feedback like this to heart when considering blanket changes to all the races. I would never dislike the idea of more options as it would make our characters even more unique which I always encourage. But I would hope that our original looks would be persevered in the process and not overwritten.

I really don't intend to sound rude because clearly this is very important to some people, but it's a little bit dramatic to suggest these two actually look like completely different characters.

Maybe they should just call the whole thing off so they can really make sure nothing changes too much.

I'm more put out that they're planning on wasting 90GB of my hard drive to up some textures I'll never really notice outside of a few gee-whiz moments after the initial update.

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Originally Posted by EllieSea

Looking at the Miqo mock-up images they seem like two different characters. The eyes most of all. They are significantly bigger and much more animal-like in a way that changes the rest of the face's composition entirely.

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With this glam:
https://i.ibb.co/YdMb74V/Screenshot-...-23-133954.png

you will hardly see a difference how big or animal-like the eyes are. :)



Cheers

I agree that it is more subtle than other changes that I pointed out in my thread on Eyes and Au ra Limbal Rings, especially if you don't play as a M'iqote so you are not as familiar with their faces as someone who does, but I think it would also help people who are unconvinced by the OP to consider how this would affect NPCs like Y'shtola, since the model uses the same face.

I can imagine that her eyes will receive a special treatment (at least post ARR), but I think her default expression would soften quite a lot with the changes around the mouth and the cheeks, and that doesn't really suit her character.

And even for a normal M'iqote, the more "realistic" irises kind of take away from the feline image to me, ironically enough. Because they're more overshadowed and the color slightly tuned down, the gaze looks less fierce and wild than it does at the moment, even with the same pupil.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I agree that it is more subtle than other changes that I pointed out in my thread on Eyes and Au ra Limbal Rings, especially if you don't play as a M'iqote so you are not as familiar with their faces as someone who does, but I think it would also help people who are unconvinced by the OP to consider how this would affect NPCs like Y'shtola, since the model uses the same face.

I can imagine that her eyes will receive a special treatment (at least post ARR), but I think her default expression would soften quite a lot with the changes around the mouth and the cheeks, and that doesn't really suit her character.

And even for a normal M'iqote, the more "realistic" irises kind of take away from the feline image to me, ironically enough. Because they're more overshadowed and the color slightly tuned down, the gaze looks less fierce and wild than it does at the moment, even with the same pupil.

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None of the scions barring Estinien share faces with players, the tattoos are pretty much part of their faces, so they could give these characters special attention even during 2.0 content.

I much prefer the after picture and am so glad they are changing it! thanks.

It's not that I really can't see any change between these two pictures, I assume we all can, but definitely not to the point where I can't still see it's the same character.

- The eyes are the most obvious difference, personally I think they look better in the after but that's entirely subjective.
- New maps makes the light hit the face differently casting a different shadow across the entire jaw making the chin look slightly shorter even though it's not, so the entire face looks rounder from this particular angle.
- I see no drastic change in the lips, cleaner lines and slightly more glossy perhaps.
- The hair colour looking slightly different is already a "problem" between the older and more recently released hairstyles. If anything this should make colour show more uniformly across all of them rather than suddenly turning drastically brighter or darker depending on when the hairstyle was released.

Obviously me saying that maybe they should just call the whole thing off is tongue in cheek, but maybe we're taking the "we don't want to change your character" statement a bit too literally in this case. There will obviously be some changes, if they truly wanted no changes there would be no point to any of this and they would just leave them alone completely.

In a perfect world every piece of feedback or complaint would turn into another option and we'd get sliders for this and toggles for that, but the reality of this game is that if they get enough feedback about something it often gets changed completely. In some cases that's fine and in some it's kind of a bummer so I'm just providing some counter criticism. For example, there are people that enjoyed the glassier look they gave the Au Ra horns but as far as we know that's completely scrapped now.

While I agree that it looks better from my perspective, I can totally understand why others would not like it. I hope the Devs offer a Fantasia for everybody after the update. While it’s a financial hit, it is the right thing to do. Any changes, even subtle, may make a player dislike their look enough to quit.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

While I agree that it looks better from my perspective, I can totally understand why others would not like it. I hope the Devs offer a Fantasia for everybody after the update. While it’s a financial hit, it is the right thing to do. Any changes, even subtle, may make a player dislike their look enough to quit.

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Absolutely agree, unless they finally intend to drastically increase what Jandelaine can do then players should at least have the option to make larger changes to their character if they're really not happy with how they look after the update.

I believe our long time resident of questionable threads is back and disguising themselves under the sea of feedback threads...like if you aren't who I think you are (The 1 post of this current month with a healer at 90 very much leads credibility to my theory however) then I apologize but in regards to the thread there is some reaching here....there is a lot of changes here which I think you are glancing over...but it is the same character. The hair now can reflect the highlights better and the lighting system as a whole has improved alongside their skin shader with subsurface scattering too. On top of that the eyes are now shaders themselves which have fully positional glare points now rather then the painted in ones in the base. I think all these just enhance the the model...it really shows their models do stand up quite well...while they've also upped the poly count with nose, chin, ear etc I do hope by tokyo they look to hair and just smoothen out some of the jagged lines that feature more at the top of the head.

It looks like the same character.

It's interesting seeing all of these people upset over objectively better looking characters. The after looks way better.
Only the Au Ra limbal ring glow and Fem Roe pupil has any weight behind it.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

It looks like the same character.

It's interesting seeing all of these people upset over objectively better looking characters. The after looks way better.
Only the Au Ra limbal ring glow and Fem Roe pupil has any weight behind it.

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Not sure I'd agree. If you look at the picture, the eyes lost a lot of their color. I don't understand the point of having all the color options, which previously allowed a range between muted and bright, if they're just going to make them all muted now.

The characters look better from a technical perspective, but they've definitely lost a lot of the uniqueness they had previously. They look kinda bland and the eyes are a large reason for that.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

The characters look better from a technical perspective, but they've definitely lost a lot of the uniqueness they had previously. They look kinda bland and the eyes are a large reason for that.

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I think this is a big point that is dividing people in all the current threads. It seems like some people focus on the technical improvement, and are arguing against the feedback others are offering because "it looks better, so why are people complaining, it shouldn't be changed at all".
I don't think anyone here thinks the graphics update is a downgrade overall, we're all super excited for it (the hair upgrade looks amazing). But technical improvement shouldn't come at the cost of the defining traits of the original designs, and at the moment they're suffering a little bit, so people are just asking for some finetuning in those areas.

It's all about nuances I guess.

The new eyes are a gigantic improvement across the board (excluding the limbal rings which I don't care about either way before any lizards jump on me). The "before" picture in the OP looks completely vacant, like a soulless robot. The "after" picture looks so much more alive after the eye upgrade. Half the reason I picked the angry eyebrows on my own character was to lessen the O_O look every playable race has in this game, so I'm very excited to see that being improved finally.

The rest of the character looks practically identical so it's pretty ridiculous to claim it's a "totally different face," but I'm sure SE went into this update prepared for a certain amount of silly nitpicking.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I think this is a big point that is dividing people in all the current threads. It seems like some people focus on the technical improvement, and are arguing against the feedback others are offering because "it looks better, so why are people complaining, it shouldn't be changed at all".
I don't think anyone here thinks the graphics update is a downgrade overall, we're all super excited for it (the hair upgrade looks amazing). But technical improvement shouldn't come at the cost of the defining traits of the original designs, and at the moment they're suffering a little bit, so people are just asking for some finetuning in those areas.

It's all about nuances I guess.

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People just need to understand that, get the basic idea of what people want before inserting into a topic.

Are they against Graphics Upgrade? everyone including outsiders are happy(Unless they're just hating for hate.)

Do they dislike the overall changes?
No, so many good changes and excitement is going around.

Are they focusing only on one aspect?
Yes, the main focus was just something that needs fixing or making sure the feel of the characters that players have grown to love and hate about the races remains the same. JUST HQ.

Sadly, so many keep pushing on it, that they make themselves seem like Being Contrarian for the emotions they get rises from.

You even have some users who folk misjudge(justifiably, or incorrectly) depending on the topic coming out in support of it. while others you expect more from their past takes take a terrible turn. (Unless they're just being against for a personal vendetta against some random user.)

But the Fact many new users with characters that have been around for awhile.

And those who love muted Colors, Roe Eyes, or asking finally for a Fix to Darker skin tones lighting.

have all come forward to give feedback and express their want for Toggles on something minor while they are developing these changes, and bringing each other up for the devs to notice.

We all want to ensure they please as many as they wish with the Graphics Upgrade.

And the major factor is being as close to our current expectations of our characters. But HQ.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

With this glam:
https://i.ibb.co/YdMb74V/Screenshot-...-23-133954.png

you will hardly see a difference how big or animal-like the eyes are. :)



Cheers

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hehe, perhaps if this was my only glam and not just my newest :p

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I agree that it is more subtle than other changes that I pointed out in my thread on Eyes and Au ra Limbal Rings, especially if you don't play as a M'iqote so you are not as familiar with their faces as someone who does, but I think it would also help people who are unconvinced by the OP to consider how this would affect NPCs like Y'shtola, since the model uses the same face.

I can imagine that her eyes will receive a special treatment (at least post ARR), but I think her default expression would soften quite a lot with the changes around the mouth and the cheeks, and that doesn't really suit her character.

And even for a normal M'iqote, the more "realistic" irises kind of take away from the feline image to me, ironically enough. Because they're more overshadowed and the color slightly tuned down, the gaze looks less fierce and wild than it does at the moment, even with the same pupil.

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mhmm, I don't deny that the changes by comparison to other races are subtle, I've read through your thread and a few others from players that can appreciate the technical improvements while also grieving the current appearance of their characters changing. All of the compliments and complaints to current state of updates are valid. Thank you for pointing out that the updates would also affect Y'shtola's model and intensity. (I think we sometimes forget how her skin has also unfortunately lightened over the years)

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Originally Posted by Yencat

It's not that I really can't see any change between these two pictures, I assume we all can, but definitely not to the point where I can't still see it's the same character.

- The eyes are the most obvious difference, personally I think they look better in the after but that's entirely subjective.
- New maps makes the light hit the face differently casting a different shadow across the entire jaw making the chin look slightly shorter even though it's not, so the entire face looks rounder from this particular angle.
- I see no drastic change in the lips, cleaner lines and slightly more glossy perhaps.
- The hair colour looking slightly different is already a "problem" between the older and more recently released hairstyles. If anything this should make colour show more uniformly across all of them rather than suddenly turning drastically brighter or darker depending on when the hairstyle was released.

Obviously me saying that maybe they should just call the whole thing off is tongue in cheek, but maybe we're taking the "we don't want to change your character" statement a bit too literally in this case. There will obviously be some changes, if they truly wanted no changes there would be no point to any of this and they would just leave them alone completely.

In a perfect world every piece of feedback or complaint would turn into another option and we'd get sliders for this and toggles for that, but the reality of this game is that if they get enough feedback about something it often gets changed completely. In some cases that's fine and in some it's kind of a bummer so I'm just providing some counter criticism. For example, there are people that enjoyed the glassier look they gave the Au Ra horns but as far as we know that's completely scrapped now.

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You aren't wrong, they eyes do look *better* so does the quality of shadows and the way the hair texture is rendered. This update will hopefully help the disparity in color between different hairstyles looking so different. It all looks better. But these changes however small do affect the overall look and expression of characters. I would love if this feedback to square yielded sliders and just more options for customization. Not just a scrap of the change as a whole.. But this would only be in a perfect world.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

While I agree that it looks better from my perspective, I can totally understand why others would not like it. I hope the Devs offer a Fantasia for everybody after the update. While it’s a financial hit, it is the right thing to do. Any changes, even subtle, may make a player dislike their look enough to quit.

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Yeah, this would be a generous thing for the Devs to do. While I don't think they could change enough to ever make me quit. It would be nice to have a Fantasia just in case to be able to adjust after the update to make my character feel more like themselves again.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

I believe our long time resident of questionable threads is back and disguising themselves under the sea of feedback threads...like if you aren't who I think you are (The 1 post of this current month with a healer at 90 very much leads credibility to my theory however) then I apologize but in regards to the thread there is some reaching here....there is a lot of changes here which I think you are glancing over...but it is the same character. The hair now can reflect the highlights better and the lighting system as a whole has improved alongside their skin shader with subsurface scattering too. On top of that the eyes are now shaders themselves which have fully positional glare points now rather then the painted in ones in the base. I think all these just enhance the the model...it really shows their models do stand up quite well...while they've also upped the poly count with nose, chin, ear etc I do hope by tokyo they look to hair and just smoothen out some of the jagged lines that feature more at the top of the head.

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I have no idea who exactly you're mistaking me for, But I appreciate the apology (Just someone who loves their character wanting to share feedback in hopes that it yields a positive change that would ideally allow us to keep our current look and those who prefer the new an opportunity to change.)

This is unrealistic but I wish they would give us the benchmark sooner rather than later so we can actually see OUR characters with the updates to either put people's minds at ease or to allow time for some feedback.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

People just need to understand that, get the basic idea of what people want before inserting into a topic.

Are they against Graphics Upgrade? everyone including outsiders are happy(Unless they're just hating for hate.)

Do they dislike the overall changes?
No, so many good changes and excitement is going around.

Are they focusing only on one aspect?
Yes, the main focus was just something that needs fixing or making sure the feel of the characters that players have grown to love and hate about the races remains the same. JUST HQ.

Sadly, so many keep pushing on it, that they make themselves seem like Being Contrarian for the emotions they get rises from.

You even have some users who folk misjudge(justifiably, or incorrectly) depending on the topic coming out in support of it. while others you expect more from their past takes take a terrible turn. (Unless they're just being against for a personal vendetta against some random user.)

But the Fact many new users with characters that have been around for awhile.

And those who love muted Colors, Roe Eyes, or asking finally for a Fix to Darker skin tones lighting.

have all come forward to give feedback and express their want for Toggles on something minor while they are developing these changes, and bringing each other up for the devs to notice.

We all want to ensure they please as many as they wish with the Graphics Upgrade.

And the major factor is being as close to our current expectations of our characters. But HQ.

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mhmmm! Thank you for understanding. It's tough to toe how happy we are about all of the improvements both to characters and environment while also pinpointing how some of these changes largely impact characters that we've grown quite attached to. So any criticism to the changes will seem like we just want to can it entirely which just isn't the case. Sad that this is so polarizing...

I guess I'm in the minority but I mainly just see better lighting and much higher texture detail. The only race I've seen so far that has a clear issue is au ra and their limbal rings.

I'll hold final judgment when the expansion comes out and I can actually look at my character, it's not worth the stress freaking out over a screenshot since they may tweak things before release. The character creator lets you do small adjustments to things like the cheeks, eyes, etc., so I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot to have them set the same between shots.

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Originally Posted by EllieSea

You aren't wrong, they eyes do look *better* so does the quality of shadows and the way the hair texture is rendered. This update will hopefully help the disparity in color between different hairstyles looking so different. It all looks better. But these changes however small do affect the overall look and expression of characters. I would love if this feedback to square yielded sliders and just more options for customization. Not just a scrap of the change as a whole.. But this would only be in a perfect world.

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They almost certainly won't please everyone, but hopefully there is a happy medium.

And who knows, maybe they will release the updated models in the benchmark so we can get a better look at them rather than staring at before and after images. :)

The improved face has some better features, being a more defined mouth (the chin and bottom lip area are much more defined and the sides of the mouth go inward some, she still retains the slight smile) and the nose has been cleaned up but it's the same face, just improved features.
The eyes have more depth and no longer have the creepy stare- the eyelashes on the top brow are thicker
Comparing the two, the new face has more pixels and the hair is more defined
I circled the hair comparison bc of the amount of pixels- and as a portrait artist, I can tell you that the size of the face is the same. The lips are the same and so are the eyes. The thicker lashes on the top lid make the eyes appear bigger.
The face stripes have also been cleaned up.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...39e11e35e7d37&

Turns out good shaders and high res textures have an effect on the way something looks. Buckle up folks, there's gonna be megathreads about these changes for years.

I remember logging my character into ARR and struggled to see her the way she was in 1.0 and ever since then I swapped changed until I found what I like or got used too. The game seemed to go more cartoon like and the races especially Miqo'te have become very dated looking to me. I think so far they look better than what we have, a lot of players will not like what they see I am sure and maybe they will feel how I did when I logged in and saw my character did not port very well.

They may give a free fantasia (they have in the past) I think is great the game will look nicer but can understand people feeling a little unsure on how it will affect their character. I am sure we will have a new benchmark to give players a chance to have a play around.

The problem with the "just wait and see until the benchmark" argument is that, if it follows the same schedule as the Endwalker benchmark did, it will release only 4 months before the expansion launches. For Shadowbringers it was 2 months. For Stormblood it was 1. Even 4 months is a very short amount of time to gather feedback, filter through it, send it to the dev team, and have the dev team act on it, especially when they already have lots of other things on their plate, especially when they're so close to the release date. It will probably be too late by then to address such things, which is why it's important that people raise their concerns early on so there's a bigger chance of improvements being implemented.

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Originally Posted by Luluna

I remember logging my character into ARR and struggled to see her the way she was in 1.0 and ever since then I swapped changed until I found what I like or got used too.

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Out of curiosity, do you have screenshots of that character before and after ARR? I'm interested to see how the model has changed.

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Originally Posted by EllieSea

dough-eyed

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Just for the record, not to be rude but because it's kind of a fun mistake: The term is "doe-eyed." Like a deer, not like bread.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

The problem with the "just wait and see until the benchmark" argument is that, if it follows the same schedule as the Endwalker benchmark did, it will release only 4 months before the expansion launches. For Shadowbringers it was 2 months. For Stormblood it was 1. Even 4 months is a very short amount of time to gather feedback, filter through it, send it to the dev team, and have the dev team act on it, especially when they already have lots of other things on their plate, especially when they're so close to the release date. It will probably be too late by then to address such things, which is why it's important that people raise their concerns early on so there's a bigger chance of improvements being implemented.




Out of curiosity, do you have screenshots of that character before and after ARR? I'm interested to see how the model has changed.

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Heya yes I do I have a lot on my old PC I play PS5 now though. I have so many I was a screenshot addict lol. I do not have access to get them on here but there are a lot of vids and screens of players from 1.0. If I can somehow in the future get them on I would happily post them up ^O^

Are any of you ever truly happy? Square Enix put a lot of work into this graphical update. It drained an enormous amount of resources and all I have yet to see on these forums is angry complaints about the previews. This must be absolutely demoralizing for the developers to see.

Ngl not caring too much on the graphic updates with characters. Now if/when they decide to add more options with character creation, that'll get my attention, but for now Im looking forward to the detailed environments more. Cant wait to see wait to see what they do with the older zone in later patches.

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Originally Posted by Luluna

I remember logging my character into ARR and struggled to see her the way she was in 1.0 and ever since then I swapped changed until I found what I like or got used too. The game seemed to go more cartoon like and the races especially Miqo'te have become very dated looking to me. I think so far they look better than what we have, a lot of players will not like what they see I am sure and maybe they will feel how I did when I logged in and saw my character did not port very well.

They may give a free fantasia (they have in the past) I think is great the game will look nicer but can understand people feeling a little unsure on how it will affect their character. I am sure we will have a new benchmark to give players a chance to have a play around.

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mmmm, it's sometimes easy to forget that characters haven't always looked as they do now. That at some point we were experiencing this "growing pain" if I can call it that and it was jarring to see changes to characters because of improvements. But we just get used to it over time eventually. I don't disagree with calling the look dated at all. Or that the game as a whole character changes included will look much nicer and more detailed. I'm sure I am just one of the many that is feeling that concern of *to what degree will my WoL feel different* (Thanks for chiming in- I would also be super curious to see any screenshots you have from before and after ARR)

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Originally Posted by Eriyu

Just for the record, not to be rude but because it's kind of a fun mistake: The term is "doe-eyed." Like a deer, not like bread.

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oof, thank you kindly for the correction! Late night brain offers little in the form of corrections (after lots of rereading). too bad I wasn't trying to make bread puns hehe

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Originally Posted by EllieSea

oof, thank you kindly for the correction! Late night brain offers little in the form of corrections (after lots of rereading). too bad I wasn't trying to make bread puns hehe

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idk, I thought it was pretty adoughrable.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

idk, I thought it was pretty adoughrable.

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oh stahhhppp it haha, Donut make me steal that one for later (I likely will)

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Originally Posted by PetThisMiqo

Are any of you ever truly happy? Square Enix put a lot of work into this graphical update. It drained an enormous amount of resources and all I have yet to see on these forums is angry complaints about the previews. This must be absolutely demoralizing for the developers to see.

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If the goal is to minimize the visual shock of the update, which is precisely what they have stated, seeing these complaints now makes it way easier to pivot than seeing them later when everything is locked down.

I don't have an opinion on this particular one, but I think it's silly to say that, when the stated goal of an update is to keep visual identity, that people shouldn't bring up issues they have with it as early as possible.

its going to be different in addition to the increased res on the textures, they are readding shaders they removed from the game during the transition to 2.0. This isn't the final product. I like what they have shown so far.

the Iris could be a tad slimmer but I do think some people are just nitpicking and will just have to get use to the subtle change