Stop dumbing down old dungeons

Just saw the new changes to Skalla and I'm just here sitting thinking why, why must you remove unique aspects of dungeons just so your crappy AI can do it, you removed the floaty boys and turned the 2nd boss stationary so now its super boring. This isn't just Skalla, lots of past dungeons that you have reworked and in doing so just removed interesting or unique things about the dungeons. Biggest complaint about dungeons in this game is that they are all super formulaic and uninteresting and yet instead of addressing this the devs double down on it and make them even more so. It was fine when you were reworking ARR dungeons that were objectively just not well designed and dated, but nothing past heavensward warrants these changes.

It's sad because these are just dungeons and very little people care about dungeons (I do not), but the standard the devs are setting that they will dumb down the most boring piece of content is very sad, what other piece of content are they gonna do this to next?

" if you want a challenge, go play ultimate" -yoshi

Just saw the changes to Skalla myself and I'm so bummed newer players will have to miss out on such a fun little feature. In general, I can't imagine how samey dungeons are gonna feel for new players that never got to experience when many of them had unique quirks. It kind of makes me resent the Trust system, tbh.

2 days ago I was in Castrum Abania an other nerf dungeons but it's really bad the 2nd boss Number XXIV no longer protect itself with element instead now it pick one do 2 or 3 attack and then it drop for 10 sec where it does Absolutely nothing , get up, switch element still with no barriers, re do the same thing that's so bad and it's not like the old version was hard I never seen a wipe not even close to a wipe hell I don't think I have seen anyone died on that fight just why

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noox-115

2 days ago I was in Castrum Abania an other nerf dungeons but it's really bad the 2nd boss Number XXIV no longer protect itself with element instead now it pick one do 2 or 3 attack and then it drop for 10 sec where it does Absolutely nothing , get up, switch element still with no barriers, re do the same thing that's so bad and it's not like the old version was hard I never seen a wipe not even close to a wipe hell I don't think I have seen anyone died on that fight just why

---

That one makes me really sad 'cause I liked that mechanic.
The trust system was a cool concept but it's starting to do quite some harm. Turning the game from a decent multiplayer to a watered down kind of boring single player.

Why is ARF the only reworked dungeon that still has any challenge?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izanaghi

It's sad because these are just dungeons and very little people care about dungeons (I do not), but the standard the devs are setting that they will dumb down the most boring piece of content is very sad, what other piece of content are they gonna do this to next?

---

Dungeons still matter. They're part of the MSQ, everyone has to run them at some point or another, they frequently get recycled for relic stages (or were, I suppose, but they're still relevant to previous ones) and they're at the centre of roulettes which everyone and their mother binges at some point for tomes to gear up or grab mats. It was always going to be impossible to keep them from growing at least somewhat tedious, but by the gods I have to ask if Yoshi is trying to kill everyone who hasn't joined in the past year off with boredom by removing the few mechanics that offered some variation in how a run might turn out.

I'm inclined to suggest removing healers altogether and replacing them with an Allagan node that periodically casts Medica every 60 seconds for the unavoidable roomwide and have done with it, since that's all they're going to be good for soon enough and nobody with more than two braincells to rub together is going to derive any enjoyment out of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noox-115

2 days ago I was in Castrum Abania an other nerf dungeons but it's really bad the 2nd boss Number XXIV no longer protect itself with element instead now it pick one do 2 or 3 attack and then it drop for 10 sec where it does Absolutely nothing , get up, switch element still with no barriers, re do the same thing that's so bad and it's not like the old version was hard I never seen a wipe not even close to a wipe hell I don't think I have seen anyone died on that fight just why

---

I call that an improvement considering missing a tower is very likely to kill you there now, before you would just look sad at the guy not changing to the correct element

I think the solution is simple: they should make a duty support version of every duty, and keep the player ones separate.

You get the same credit for each duty quest wise etc, but this allows people interested in playing an MMO with other people in the battle content to have the more interesting mechanics that existed before Trusts were introduced.

Sadly, this change would be too late as they've finished ruining old dungeons with 6.5, but maybe they could revert Skalla and Keeper of the Lake and give themselves more room to breathe design wise if they make separate player-or-ai dungeons going forward from here.

That'd be quite a lot of work for new dungeons

I can understand the rework of the dungeons. But, if they are going to make them so much easier than they were, then they should bring back the Hard dungeons. Those at least would provide an upgrade of challenge. Haukke Hard and Tam Tara Hard constantly wipe groups. It used to be the updates gave us 2 dungeons, one MSQ progressive and one hard version of a previous dungeon. I know Yoshi-P said they weren't doing this for the sake of time. Seems like there will always be a trade off.

well yeah they will stop now
since all msq dungeons have trust and have no intention to do it for optional dungeons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duskane

well yeah they will stop now
since all msq dungeons have trust and have no intention to do it for optional dungeons

---

Doesn't solve the issue, they already reworked all the interesting old MSQ dungeons into mindnumbingly boring slop and since we no longer get optional dungeons, it's all just 1 mandatory MSQ dungeon every major patch, all the future ones will also be mindnumbingly boring slop.

Current and most likely future XIV dungeons are just the most watery and unseasoned soup imaginable. They're not offensively bad, just so incredibly bland that you start asking yourself why they still exist at all outside of some imaginary obligation of "MMOs need to have dungeons."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NightPort

I can understand the rework of the dungeons. But, if they are going to make them so much easier than they were, then they should bring back the Hard dungeons. Those at least would provide an upgrade of challenge. Haukke Hard and Tam Tara Hard constantly wipe groups. It used to be the updates gave us 2 dungeons, one MSQ progressive and one hard version of a previous dungeon. I know Yoshi-P said they weren't doing this for the sake of time. Seems like there will always be a trade off.

---

"Hard Mode" in the dungeon names wasn't really "Hard Mode." For example: Pharos Sirius was harder than Haukke Manor [Hard] and Copperbell Mines [Hard] back on release. Tam Tara [Hard] I don't think people ever wiped to... on release. Nowadays you just have to hope someone says "don't kill the adds on first boss" and then hope that the party members read that if said. Haukke Manor also suffers from people just being too strong for a fight that was designed around spawning adds per HP% (the fight itself has a 6 minute enrage. Most likely shorter once all adds are killed... i should test this).
I've more or less accepted that dungeons will be super duper easy (though Magus Sisters was a promising start to EW), however I will always be disappointed if the Trials, Raids and Alliance Raids are made to be just as easy as (or worse, easier than) the dungeons.

Tested it: Halicarnassus will always hard enrage at 6 minutes no matter what. Did it two times where I killed her adds ASAP and then a second time where I do nothing at all (she did not summon her adds). Surprisingly, you can survive Fatal Allure with a Divine Benison-like buff (turned a 260k+ attack into a 200k+ attack).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izanaghi

Just saw the new changes to Skalla and I'm just here sitting thinking why, why must you remove unique aspects of dungeons just so your crappy AI can do it, you removed the floaty boys and turned the 2nd boss stationary so now its super boring. This isn't just Skalla, lots of past dungeons that you have reworked and in doing so just removed interesting or unique things about the dungeons. Biggest complaint about dungeons in this game is that they are all super formulaic and uninteresting and yet instead of addressing this the devs double down on it and make them even more so. It was fine when you were reworking ARR dungeons that were objectively just not well designed and dated, but nothing past heavensward warrants these changes.

It's sad because these are just dungeons and very little people care about dungeons (I do not), but the standard the devs are setting that they will dumb down the most boring piece of content is very sad, what other piece of content are they gonna do this to next?

---

sadly we asked for trust to be in all of the msq dungeons, at least he is against doing this to the old side dungeons.

It isn't like the old dungeons were "hard" - just different. There was the occasional "pick up these items to unlock something." Or maybe a fork in the road where you could go and get an extra chest or experience. SE really likes things being formulaic. Wall to wall twice. Boss. Repeat twice more.