Make old raid gear purchasable with poetics

I think it would be really great if we could get the ability to purchase savage raid gear from old expansions with poetics. They could put it behind a "clear wall" where you need to clear the fight that the gear comes from once if they really must. This would be a really great QoL for people who want to get old gear for glamour or alternate gear for alt job leveling without having to try and find (and compete) with several other people who also want to farm old content that can't be solo'd. I guess another option would be to make all old content soloable. I just thought this would be a nice QoL change for the game.

Go to party finder, select savage duty of choice, call it glamour farm, do it unsynced.

It is already brutally easy once you can outgear, outlevel and outecho fights, no need to dumb it down any further. It won't hurt you if you have to play the MMO of the RPG for once. Not everything needs to be.soloable.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Go to party finder, select savage duty of choice, call it glamour farm, do it unsynced.

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And then wait several hours for the group to get enough people to be able to do the handful of mechanics that can't be done alone only to have several people in the group actually have no idea how to do the mechanics that you need them for and if by some miracle, after waiting for hours for the group to fill, you do kill the boss you'll have that one guy that gets the items he wants and then leaves. But yeah sure sounds simple enough. Also not everyone has the time to wait around in pf all day for a group to fill that will maybe be able to kill the boss.

Honestly being able to unsync them for glam would be more doable if the devs made body-checks dynamic instead of absolutely needing 8 people for mechanics. There are a few dungeon and extreme mechs that scale to the number of the people in the party, and it's great for soloing/duoing old content.

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Originally Posted by CamuiKushi

Honestly being able to unsync them for glam would be more doable if the devs made body-checks dynamic instead of absolutely needing 8 people for mechanics. There are a few dungeon and extreme mechs that scale to the number of the people in the party, and it's great for soloing/duoing old content.

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Just imagine trying to go back a year or two from now and trying to farm p10s with a bunch of randoms from the pf. Its already a pain to do right now when the fight is fresh in peoples memory.
*Edit* Also they had this with bozja at release. You could solo pretty much all of the CEs and like 2 or 3 man castrum.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

Just imagine trying to go back a year or two from now and trying to farm p10s with a bunch of randoms from the pf. Its already a pain to do right now when the fight is fresh in peoples memory.
*Edit* Also they had this with bozja at release. You could solo pretty much all of the CEs and like 2 or 3 man castrum.

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Either wait a few expansions or just form a farm party with randoms or with FC members.

Come on, it's not that bad to get a few people together for this.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

And then wait several hours for the group to get enough people to be able to do the handful of mechanics that can't be done alone only to have several people in the group actually have no idea how to do the mechanics that you need them for and if by some miracle, after waiting for hours for the group to fill, you do kill the boss you'll have that one guy that gets the items he wants and then leaves. But yeah sure sounds simple enough. Also not everyone has the time to wait around in pf all day for a group to fill that will maybe be able to kill the boss.

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Im sorry you don't have friends, free company members or communities helping you out on that and that you suffer from bad players in party finder.

But I will stick to what I said - the fights are absolute piss after mega echo gets added. If people can't manage simple body mechanics after making DPS and Heal checks irrelevant, then thsy can go and pick up normal mode gear. If you insist on dye, suck it up. Poetics is a boring solution and would just kill the last damn reason to ever step into those fights even unsynced.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

I think it would be really great if we could get the ability to purchase savage raid gear from old expansions with poetics. They could put it behind a "clear wall" where you need to clear the fight that the gear comes from once if they really must. This would be a really great QoL for people who want to get old gear for glamour or alternate gear for alt job leveling without having to try and find (and compete) with several other people who also want to farm old content that can't be solo'd. I guess another option would be to make all old content soloable. I just thought this would be a nice QoL change for the game.

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Yea that would be nice. I dont agree with the pearl clutching over old savage fights.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Im sorry you don't have friends, free company members or communities helping you out on that and that you suffer from bad players in party finder.

But I will stick to what I said - the fights are absolute piss after mega echo gets added. If people can't manage simple body mechanics after making DPS and Heal checks irrelevant, then thsy can go and pick up normal mode gear. If you insist on dye, suck it up. Poetics is a boring solution and would just kill the last damn reason to ever step into those fights even unsynced.

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Never once said that I didn't have the means to go back and do old savage fights though it was a nice attempt at an insult with the no friends bit. I simply thought it would be a nice change for the community at large. You are right, those old fights are extremely easy now especially unsynced. There is no sense of accomplishment for doing those fights anymore. There is quite literally no reason to not let them be soloable. With the proposed change you can still go back and do them synced or unsynced in a group if you so desire, nothing would be stopping you. I suspect a change like this would be so inconsequential to you that it wouldn't change anything about the game for you at all. But hey maybe I'm wrong and your're one of the two people who stroll through the pf just itching to help people get their old glamours. I actually can't believe the pushback on this, there is literally no good reason to oppose something like this. I have cleared every savage fight this expansion and would have zero qualms with them making all of the pandemonium fights soloable come next expansion, it simply would not effect me.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

Never once said that I didn't have the means to go back and do old savage fights though it was a nice attempt at an insult with the no friends bit. I simply thought it would be a nice change for the community at large. You are right, those old fights are extremely easy now especially unsynced. There is no sense of accomplishment for doing those fights anymore. There is quite literally no reason to not let them be soloable. With the proposed change you can still go back and do them synced or unsynced in a group if you so desire, nothing would be stopping you. I suspect a change like this would be so inconsequential to you that it wouldn't change anything about the game for you at all. But hey maybe I'm wrong and your're one of the two people who stroll through the pf just itching to help people get their old glamours. I actually can't believe the pushback on this, there is literally no good reason to oppose something like this. I have cleared every savage fight this expansion and would have zero qualms with them making all of the pandemonium fights soloable come next expansion, it simply would not effect me.

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No attempt at insult was made regarding your friend status, the devil in the detail was "friends [...] helping you with that". specifically Savage unsync. If you felt it was an attempted insult then you are free to continue believing that. If you specifically have the means to get what you want, good for you.

I have no problem with people having an easier time to obtain glamour - if I did I'd complain about being able to obtain them with unsync.The reasons I specifically give pushback for both mentioned solutions involve the following:

1.) Making it soloable as in putting in additional dev time into ensuring whatever Savage content you think of can be done with less than 8 players beyond initial development is something I disagree with because I consider it wasted dev time. Inflated stats, higher level skills and echo help more than enough.

2.) Making it available for poetics is a working, but lazy approach and simply kills any and all reason for people to engage with old content beyond very specifically teying to clear it for the challenge. This would drastically lessen the shelf life.

gotta work for those glamz. if you want it, put in the effort.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

2.) Making it available for poetics is a working, but lazy approach and simply kills any and all reason for people to engage with old content beyond very specifically teying to clear it for the challenge. This would drastically lessen the shelf life.

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Not saying Poetics is the move here, but the shelf life on this content is already dead. If you are putting up an old savage of anything outside of the final fight of that tier (for the mount), it takes literal hours to get even a party of 3-4 for most old fights. I remember trying to get e6s glam or glam from like e2s and it taking hours just to get a party of 4-5 lmao.

In short, adding poetics to glam items doesn't kill the shelf life of the content. People do the final tier fights for ulti unlocks and/or the mount and thats it.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

2.) Making it available for poetics is a working, but lazy approach and simply kills any and all reason for people to engage with old content beyond very specifically teying to clear it for the challenge. This would drastically lessen the shelf life.

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What even is the shelf life of an old raid? I would say that old raids die as soon as the next one comes out for more than 98 or even 99% of the games playerbase, outside of unlocking the associated ultimate. One could even argue that making the old raids soloable would get more people doing old raids than there currently are. I remember in SHB going back and learning to solo cruise chaser blind, it was a lot of fun. There is also a very high probability that getting people to go back and solo old raids would drum up even more interest in the old content than there currently is, thus extending its "shelf life".

On poetics, I think making old items purchasable is a great idea and extends beyond just helping the players who want old glamour. If you make old gear available to be bought with poetics then you could also remove the old items that were originally used to purchase that gear, ie the book equivalents. These old items could even be deleted from the game freeing up inventory space from players which would have an, albeit small, effect on the servers as every time you open your inventory your client has to ask the server what is in there. You could take this a step further and make it so that you reuse the same item id for the books every expansion. First you would delete the items from players inventory about 1 or 2 weeks before the expansion release, giving players plenty of heads up that this will happen, while simultaneously making the books unobtainable and making the raid gear buyable with poetics. Then rename the items and reuse them for the next set of savage teirs. Doing this would cut back on a lot of the sort of "junk" items that mmos that run for a very long time end up accumulating.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

And then wait several hours for the group to get enough people to be able to do the handful of mechanics that can't be done alone only to have several people in the group actually have no idea how to do the mechanics that you need them for and if by some miracle, after waiting for hours for the group to fill, you do kill the boss you'll have that one guy that gets the items he wants and then leaves. But yeah sure sounds simple enough. Also not everyone has the time to wait around in pf all day for a group to fill that will maybe be able to kill the boss.

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You will only encounter this problem with maybe the last two raid tiers in historical order. Eventually and with enough ilevel everything becomes completely braindead. Those "impossible" box strat mechanics and Hello World from O12S? Totally and easily skippable now (and have been all expansion.) Light rampant? Who's she? Getting locked into Dwayne or Basic Relativity from E12S? Haven't seen that since 6.0. The only fights that are remotely still challenging and might take a bit of time to fill are the final floors of Asphodelos and Abyssos, in which case... you can watch a guide or just wait until next expansion.

I personally like that these rewards are always exclusive to this content. I enjoy joining unsynched fights I did as raid floors in the past to help out!

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Originally Posted by Caro178

You will only encounter this problem with maybe the last two raid tiers in historical order. Eventually and with enough ilevel everything becomes completely braindead. Those "impossible" box strat mechanics and Hello World from O12S? Totally and easily skippable now (and have been all expansion.) Light rampant? Who's she? Getting locked into Dwayne or Basic Relativity from E12S? Haven't seen that since 6.0. The only fights that are remotely still challenging and might take a bit of time to fill are the final floors of Asphodelos and Abyssos, in which case... you can watch a guide or just wait until next expansion.

I personally like that these rewards are always exclusive to this content. I enjoy joining unsynched fights I did as raid floors in the past to help out!

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One of versions of my proposed idea was to have making the items purchasable behind a "clear wall". With this you would still need to clear the fight at least once but there would be no need to find groups to farm it over and over. Also as someone said just a few posts above this it can literally take hours and hours of siting in PF just to find a couple of other people to do an old fight. Not everyone will have 3+ hours to waste sitting around in PF every time they want a new piece of glam.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

One of versions of my proposed idea was to have making the items purchasable behind a "clear wall". With this you would still need to clear the fight at least once but there would be no need to find groups to farm it over and over. Also as someone said just a few posts above this it can literally take hours and hours of siting in PF just to find a couple of other people to do an old fight. Not everyone will have 3+ hours to waste sitting around in PF every time they want a new piece of glam.

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That would actually make getting them harder for newer players.



As things are now, everyone has to do the fights for glam. You change that, and anyone who has cleared them no longer has to.



I recently went into O10-12s to farm stuff for glam, it didn't take 3 hours to get parties. Took like 15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

That would actually make getting them harder for newer players.



As things are now, everyone has to do the fights for glam. You change that, and anyone who has cleared them no longer has to.

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You make a fair point with this.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I recently went into O10-12s to farm stuff for glam, it didn't take 3 hours to get parties. Took like 15 minutes.

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I just took a look through all the old expansion savage fights in PF on the Aether data center. There was one PF up which was for e12s. I asked the guy how long he had been waiting for and he said an hour (his pf had 22 mins left). My guess is that you probably got quite lucky with finding a group in 15 mins though I will be checking the pf again at prime time later today out of curiosity.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

You make a fair point with this.

I just took a look through all the old expansion savage fights in PF on the Aether data center. There was one PF up which was for e12s. I asked the guy how long he had been waiting for and he said an hour (his pf had 22 mins left). My guess is that you probably got quite lucky with finding a group in 15 mins though I will be checking the pf again at prime time later today out of curiosity.

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It's currently 8:34am on a Tuesday, pst. I'm at work. Most people are at work or school. Of course he's not filled yet lol.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It's currently 8:34am on a Tuesday, pst. I'm at work. Most people are at work or school. Of course he's not filled yet lol.

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That is why I said I would be checking again later.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

I think it would be really great if we could get the ability to purchase savage raid gear from old expansions with poetics. They could put it behind a "clear wall" where you need to clear the fight that the gear comes from once if they really must. This would be a really great QoL for people who want to get old gear for glamour or alternate gear for alt job leveling without having to try and find (and compete) with several other people who also want to farm old content that can't be solo'd. I guess another option would be to make all old content soloable. I just thought this would be a nice QoL change for the game.

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I mean come to aether, slap up a pf and wait lol. We seem to be the content DC but seriously. How much do people want this game dumbed down.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

How much do people want this game dumbed down.

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How would this "dumb down" the game at all? getting rid of positionals dumbs down the game. making boss hitboxes bigger dumbs down the game. making raid buffs/heals the size of the arena dumbs down the game. This change wouldn't change anything about the fights at all. The fights would still be there for anyone who wants to do them.

Let's make all rewards from any content available for poetics then.

Want that trial mount? Poetics.

Want the gemstone Angel Wings? Poetics.

Want the otter fountain for your Island Sanctuary? Poetics.

Want the cosmetic PvP sets? Poetics.

Suddenly you have 95% of the player base spamming whatever is determined to be the most efficient way to earn Poetics to get the rewards they want and the rest of the game turns into a vast wasteland.

Or we can accept that rewards come from certain content and that content needs to be done to earn the reward.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Let's make all rewards from any content available for poetics then.

Want that trial mount? Poetics.

Want the gemstone Angel Wings? Poetics.

Want the otter fountain for your Island Sanctuary? Poetics.

Want the cosmetic PvP sets? Poetics.

Suddenly you have 95% of the player base spamming whatever is determined to be the most efficient way to earn Poetics to get the rewards they want and the rest of the game turns into a vast wasteland.

Or we can accept that rewards come from certain content and that content needs to be done to earn the reward.

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Yes, this is basically a new iteration of the argument for/against tomestone relic grinds. It's just in a slightly different coat of paint. Turns out we actually don't like being limited to one single optimal way to farm everything if the immense criticism toward Endwalker's abysmal relic content is anything to go by. Making more and more rewards that used to be accessible through various game modes such as savage, pvp, maps, Island Sanctuary, Eureka and Bozja lockboxes, etc. purchasable through poetics would render that content completely obsolete. People say old savages are already obsolete, but clearly they are not otherwise this thread wouldn't exist at all. PF is full of them in the raids tab every single day on your relevant data center.

It is a good thing that we need to do a lot of different things to get different rewards. It's what keeps the gameplay loop alive. Want a pair of booty shorts? You need to level Island Sanctuary. Want a dyeable savage glamour or mount? You have to run savage raids.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Let's make all rewards from any content available for poetics then.

Want that trial mount? Poetics.

Want the gemstone Angel Wings? Poetics.

Want the otter fountain for your Island Sanctuary? Poetics.

Want the cosmetic PvP sets? Poetics.

Suddenly you have 95% of the player base spamming whatever is determined to be the most efficient way to earn Poetics to get the rewards they want and the rest of the game turns into a vast wasteland.

Or we can accept that rewards come from certain content and that content needs to be done to earn the reward.

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Your argument is a bit of a strawman. Poetics currently have very little use cases outside of leveling. You can buy some matts for old relics/relic respecs or stuff to make some gil and thats about it. My poetics have been capped since pretty much 1 month into endwalker. I agree with the idea that rewards should come from certain pieces of content which is why I favor the idea of requiring players to have first killed the boss at least once, maybe even several times, before they can buy its items for poetics. I actually wouldn't mind that after killing a boss maybe 8 to 12 times you were allowed to buy its gear with the capped or even uncapped tomes while the content is still relevant.
*Edit* What are your thoughts on being able to purchase old augmented tomestone gear for poetics? Its virtually the same thing since they both originally required killing raid bosses to obtain.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

How would this "dumb down" the game at all? getting rid of positionals dumbs down the game. making boss hitboxes bigger dumbs down the game. making raid buffs/heals the size of the arena dumbs down the game. This change wouldn't change anything about the fights at all. The fights would still be there for anyone who wants to do them.

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Making old raid gear easier to get is dumbing it down. It's already stupid easy to get the older stuff. How much more dumbed down do you need it? Like the person who posted about everything poetics isn't wrong. That's essentially what it would go to lol.

So again, how dumbed down do you all want this. We already got a braindead relic in manderville...you wanting the same thing?

I mean show me a mmo that has zero grind then go play it cause you just part of the problem as to this games decline

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Originally Posted by Azlith

How would this "dumb down" the game at all? getting rid of positionals dumbs down the game. making boss hitboxes bigger dumbs down the game. making raid buffs/heals the size of the arena dumbs down the game. This change wouldn't change anything about the fights at all. The fights would still be there for anyone who wants to do them.

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Old raid gear is already pretty easy to get. Removing one of the few activities with any sort of longevity in a game that is already starved of content with longevity would be a bad move, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

*Edit* What are your thoughts on being able to purchase old augmented tomestone gear for poetics? Its virtually the same thing since they both originally required killing raid bosses to obtain.

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You're forgetting hunts.

The augments aren't the same thing because they had multiple ways to acquire them all along, just as tomestones have multiple ways to acquire them. Those who raided Savage might have had "early access" but it wasn't exclusive access.

Raid gear doesn't have multiple sources. It comes from raiding.

Poetics have far more uses than just purchasing gear for leveling. There are crafting materials, items needed for ARR/HW relics, materia, housing items, orchestrion roles, minions, etc. and all of those items were intended to be purchased with tomestones. They didn't have other sources.

My point was that raid gear is no more special compared to all of the other desirable items in the game that can't be earned through Poetics that the change should be made. Most players could come up with a list of items they want to be easier to get. SE would be overwhelmed with "you did it for that, now do it for this also" requests.