I have questions about the Allagans I can't really find online through searching and don't recall finding answers for in-game.
We know that the Allagans were a spacefaring society, but this doesn't tell us much about their actions in space. We only really know about Dalamud and the Monitoring ship that crashed on the moon. There are plenty of clues in Azys Lla regarding their spacefaring abilities, such as Helix being a spaceport of sorts; and various sites such as the Hypersteller Downconverter and the Alpha Comm Beacon that seem to be used for communicating with space; Either with their own ships or for sending out and receiving transmissions elsewhere from space.
Heck even the Big fish in the Hyperstellar Downconverter ( A fish named Ceti ) with the description reading "Modern naturalist circles were positively abuzz following the discovery of an Allagan tomestone which contained an article on an oliphant's trunk with a maw so sensitive, that it was believed the wavekin could detect activity in the very heavens. Further study of the work however led to the conclusion that the piece was satire.", doesn't this vaguely mirror Hermes studies on Celestial Aether?
The Allagans put Dalamud in space around the moon. Did they just not notice Zodiark's prison on the moon? Did they not go "Gee whiz that's a weird tower on the moon..." Like even Golbez was able to just walk to the moon and kill the watcher.
The Allagans were aware of the Omicrons, even if Omega itself couldn't remember where it came from, it was obviously an advanced weapon FROM SPACE, and they even used it against the Meracydians in the second invasion since they knew Omega was designed to fight dragons and they knew dragons were aliens too. So.. Were they aware of other alien civilizations? All life in the universe was extinguished (as far as we know) by modern times; but this was like 6000 years ago; and Meteion did start her song of oblivion like 12k years ago.. sooo...??? Surely there are other aether-rich worlds in space that were able to avoid destruction.
My main questions being... Were the Allagans aware of what was going on in the Universe with Meteion? Did they send out ships into space? Did they know that everything was dead by that point? Did they intercept Meteions message in space? Did the Final Days sadness ray affect ships in space? Why didn't Bahamut inside of Dalamud get Final Days'd? He might be a primal but primals are still living creatures created with creation magic right? Did his unending rage keep him from getting sadness'd?
This is why we need a Meracydia expansion. Think of all the metal sci-fi lore we could be getting!! Also please help me find answers to these questions.
The Allagans and Space (MSQ Spoilers)
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10-09-2023, 10:33 PMKariousThe Allagans and Space (MSQ Spoilers)
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10-09-2023, 10:59 PMForsakenRoe
I'd imagine that, given that the Allagans were around in the 3rd era and we're in the 7th, the aether powering the brands containing Zodiark was much stronger back then. Potentially so much so, that rather than just sealing him, it erected a barrier around the moon to stop anyone even approaching. You can see there's a crashed Allagan ship on the moon, perhaps it tried to land there and was destroyed by the barrier?
As for primals, we've already been told that Aether is effectively a shield against Dynamis's effects. Being as the primal is 100% made of aether, it'd be completely immune to turning. I also imagine that they cannot feel emotions, just 'simulate' it based on the beliefs of their summoners. So Bahamut is not actually angry, he's just projecting the anger of the dragons that summoned him, etc -
10-09-2023, 11:02 PMJeeqbit
I never really thought about any of that but they are good points.
Most likely this protection from Zodiark extended into the atmosphere around the world, especially with Zodiark being in the atmosphere on the moon.
You suggested that other worlds may have survived, but the point being made in EW is that every other world did not survive. They all sought perfection and this goal led to their destruction, so the solution was an imperfect world. Although the possibility is introduced that the Meitions may have influenced said destruction by their mere presence and posing certain questions to them. -
10-09-2023, 11:10 PMTempusFinisAllagan Empire
The Allagan Empire is an extremely advanced civilization that could traverse both time and space....not to mention cloning and combining different lifeforms they had encountered.
We don't know if any of the events concerning Etherys had anything to do with the Allags and their research. The civilization could very well have had a completely independent objective, and just researching the events unfolding for their own independent purposes...
Also, the Allags designed a Proto-Alexander (The Twinning Dungeon) in a crystal tower from an alternate future timeline (8th Umbral Calamity).
That being said, I am extremely excited about Dawntrail and seeing more of the FF14 story unfold. :) -
10-09-2023, 11:21 PMBonoki
Wasn't it also established that Emet was the founder of the Allagans and then later Garlemond? I think it's pretty safe to say the acians were the source if Allagans tech. If the Ascians didn't know about Meteion than neither did the Allagans. The Ascians might have also interfered with the Allagan crash to prevent any human life from finding Zodiark in his inperfect form. Arbert was physically on the Moon in HW and knew nothing of the Tower or Zodiark.
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10-09-2023, 11:25 PMSaraideThe crystal tower in the first is not simply a product of allagan design but the further work of the garland ironworks of the future. They learned from the defeats of omega and alexander at the hand of the WoL how to traverse time and space. The allagans didnt know how to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFinis
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10-09-2023, 11:29 PMTheMightyMolluskNo, they didn't. The Garland Ironworks of the 8th Calamity timeline designed the Tycoon based on data from Alexander and Omega, then used the Crystal Tower as a power source.Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFinis
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10-09-2023, 11:37 PMTempusFinis
I still consider G'raha Tia or the 'Crystal Exarch' as Allag. And yes, both Cid & an Allag (Crystal Exarch) created a time traveling solution for the 8th Umbral Calamity using Omega & Alexander research.
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10-09-2023, 11:40 PMSaraideNow that's just flat out wrong. You said the allagan empire could do that. That empire hasnt existed for a very long time and neither cid nor graha are part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFinis
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10-10-2023, 12:24 AMTempusFinis
The Crystal Towers do not operate without the presence of Allags. For the 8th Umbral Calamity, the presence of G'raha Tia allowed Cid to do his research on the alternate timeline.
Without the presence of any Allags, the Crystal Towers become functionless for security reasons. To say the Allagan Empire does not exist, we need to remember that Amon's clone casted a powerful spell to stop the flow of time within the tower, lulling the surviving Allags and clones inside into a deep slumber.
Amon's clone put a part of the Allagan Empire to sleep inside the crystal tower during the Calamity of Earth (4th Umbral Calamity).
We only know of G'raha Tia, but there may be others inside the tower in a deep slumber. -
10-10-2023, 01:24 AMLimecat
TWEEST incoming: The next big threat will be an Allagan reclamation fleet coming from one of their colony worlds where their civilization continued and thrived without interruption. Or maybe even, that supposed tech-oriented reflection is where the colony/exploration ships ended up by accident, and now that things have gotten looser aether and dynamis-wise, they launch a campaign back to the source to reclaim it.
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10-10-2023, 04:50 AMKarious
The Sighsteeing Log for Heimdall's Last Sight states that the crashed ship was an observation craft sent to the heavens to monitor Dalamud, and only crashed in Mare Lamentorum around the time of Dalamud's fall 5 years ago.
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10-10-2023, 05:28 AMBrightamethystIIRC that ship was part of the Dalamud debris and only crashed on the moon 5 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe
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10-10-2023, 06:07 AMMikkoAkureG’raha Tia is not an Allagan. He is a Corvosi expat from Sharlayan whose ancestor 5000 years ago was gifted a biological marker by Allagan Princess Selina that would allow him and his descendants to be considered as royalty by Allagan machinery. Years of subsequent generations had diluted it to the point where G’raha was the only one of his generation with it and he didn’t even have the full version until Doga and Unei (the only 2 non-hostile clones locked in the tower) fixed it by doing the same thing Selina did to his ancestor to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFinis
Also, a tower having a bunch of insane clones in stasis doesn’t mean that the Allagan Empire still exists. It ceased to function as an actual country 5000 years ago. -
10-10-2023, 08:00 AMTempusFinis
I personally don't see anywhere in the FF14 lore that a 'biological marker' was ever used, and when I Google the term, I don't see how a measurement in a cell is relevant....
...however, carrying the Allag royal bloodline with Allag physical traits does make G'ratia Tia Allag.
Regarding the disappearance of the Allags, we must not forget about Koh Rabntah.* She is possessed by an Allag whose true name is Noah, the Allagan Archmage.
Between the great slumber caused by Amon's clone during the Calamity of Earth and Allag spirits possessing Eorzeans unbeknownst to them, the Allagan Empire may be a lot closer to the source than everyone realizes... -
10-10-2023, 01:26 PMJonnycbad
A vast majority of Allagan tech was due to the Allagans reverse engineering Omega, and therefore Omicron technology. This is likely how they developed space-faring capability.
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10-11-2023, 12:55 AMMikkoAkureI have no idea what you were googling but a marker in this context is a specific genetic code. It wasn't said outright in the lore because no one in the setting outside the Allagans and maybe the Garleans have discovered or understand DNA and genetics yet. But we can guess it's something similar because their princess "gifted" something to G'raha's ancestor that is passed down through his descendants and is shown with a specific phenotype (red eyes) that is later diluted after 5 millennia of subsequent generations to the point where there's only 1 descendant left with the active gene and even then he only has 1 red eye. Unei and Doga showed us that G'raha's alteration can be done magically and we have no evidence of Miqo'te-Hyur hybrids so it's likely he's not even directly descended from Selina.Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFinis
G'raha isn't Allagan. I still don't understand that logic. He didn't come from Allag. Allag collapsed 5000 years ago. His ancestors were Allagan in that they lived in the Allagan Empire, but the same could be said of probably everyone alive on the Three Great Continents. 1 guy who has altered genetic code to make Allagan technology believe he is a royal doesn't mean "the Allagan Empire assisted in the project to build the Tycoon". Allagan technology was repurposed for the greater project because it utilized the Crystal Tower, but the Tycoon (the Alexander thing) was built by Garlond Ironworks and IIRC it even has their symbol slapped on it.
I don't know what you're trying to get at either because a bunch of insane clones and 1 ghost doesn't suddenly mean the Allagan Empire survived or is back and none of them had anything at all to do with the project to prevent the 8UC.
Back to the topic at hand, it would be neat to learn of possible Allagan space exploration beyond orbit, but I am hoping for a break from the usual suspects for at least 1 expansion. Though if my crazy string-and-corkboard theory about the cloud cover on the map is correct, we may be going to Meracydia in Dawntrail anyway and we'll learn more about the Allagans and potentially Dalamud then. -
10-11-2023, 01:08 AMAbsimiliardG'raha's ancestor was imbued with characteristics of the Allagan royal blood through technology. Those characteristics were then passed down from generation to generation, descendants on occasion being born with a single red eye. It's implied G'raha is likely to be the last one, however, as the blood has simply grown too thin. The characteristics imbued into his ancestor did not change his species; he remaind Miqo'te, simply with certain properties unique to Allag's ruling class that would permit him to interface with their technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFinis
Space travel is implied to be one of their earlier feats. We don't know when they came into contact with Omega, but we do know it was after they'd reached a point where they could comprehend and control it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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10-11-2023, 08:47 PMKarious
Lol the entire thread devolved into people arguing about G'raha and his genetic marker. T_T
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10-11-2023, 11:34 PMAsdif_Laoeg
If they tried to travel in space i think the ships they send stopped giving answers at some distance since the crew had probably died. Remember that the allagans had less aether than the people of the actuel time since they lived in a time with less sundering. And with the less aether per person they had they are more easy to be influenced from meteions song. With this we could see them die if they got to far away from the planet and its aether shield.
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10-12-2023, 08:09 PMForsakenRoeAh ty, not done the EW log yet (because lazy) so I was not aware of this snippet. Makes a bit of sense, but also very 'one in a million' that it's trajectory threw it onto the moon instead of off into deeper spaceQuote:
Originally Posted by Karious
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10-12-2023, 11:10 PMHermitUKPerhaps it just knocked out the engines and the Moon's gravity did the restQuote:
Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe