The mistake SE (and other companies) are doing

http://i48.tinypic.com/j5cqk0.jpg

Not trying to serve the majority doesn't mean you can't create a great game.

Paint rocks! :3

You are totally right. And then the company goes public.... Or signs its soul away to a publisher.

I agree, Paint does rock.

I made an amazing 2 color pizza image in it earlier today.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

http://img6.myimg.de/mmos30e58.jpg

Not trying to serve the majority doesn't mean you can't create a great game.

Paint rocks! :3

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No image showing up here; a 403 error when I tried copy/pasting the link.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

http://img6.myimg.de/mmos30e58.jpg

Not trying to serve the majority doesn't mean you can't create a great game.

Paint rocks! :3

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Lol...

Since when is it about creating a great game? It's about making money. And making money means getting as many ppl to subscribe to it as possible: aka the majority.

403 Forbidden

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Lol...

Since when is it about creating a great game? It's about making money. And making money means getting as many ppl to subscribe to it as possible: aka the majority.

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But that's the point - theres just not too many casuals on the free market. Face the facts, for FFXIV a great amount of the playerbase came from FFXI

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

But that's the point - theres just not too many casuals on the free market. Face the facts, for FFXIV a great amount of the playerbase came from FFXI

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Of course, but they are obligated to try. That is likely the only way they could justify trashing a million dollar investment and throwing more millions at it for 2.0. FFXIV doesn't want to be a niche game, and we probably would have never "seen" it if that was the sales pitch. The pitch probably went something like: "we will be a top competitor in the mmorpg market." Sadly, in order to do that, you *have* to control the casual market. Back in the days there was no casual market into mmorpg's so a game like FFXI could exist and do well enough that it was acceptable to create. But there are men in black suits who want to fill their pockets, and they would never give a project a chance unless it planned on competing for the casual market. That's just where the money is.

You and I both know it could *never* compete in the casual market, but some persuasive nerd in glasses convinced the guys in black suits that it could. Course if it fails he loses his job, much like what happened to Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

Face the facts, for FFXIV a great amount of the playerbase came from FFXI

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FFXIV is not FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

http://img6.myimg.de/mmos30e58.jpg

Not trying to serve the majority doesn't mean you can't create a great game.

Paint rocks! :3

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Ahh, the free spirit of the youth. I wish i still believed in a world that you want to see. But the world that is, as the others have stated, is about money, that's what a business is and does, try to make more money.

Cute tho how you think :)

The mistake players are making: Thinking that the game is always about them and what they want.

It might've been about the entertainment on the outset of videogaming, but with the coming of better storytelling and complex systems like leveling, videogames became more about the videogame. What made the gaming community worse was the advent of the online community. It was there that things like hype and developer communication really flourished. But it was there that players saw the creation of games from beginning to end through things like demos, trailers, betas, and most importantly a constant connection to developers even after the game has released.
It was from there that now developers have to satisfy the game to the teeth.

In my opinion, the only thing that is worse than big-time publishers dictating and downcutting third party developers is arrogant players thinking that they know better about game developing than the developers (who have been doing what they have been doing since the 80s or sooner).

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Ahh, the free spirit of the youth. I wish i still believed in a world that you want to see. But the world that is, as the others have stated, is about money, that's what a business is and does, try to make more money.

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reason for so many companys filing bankruptcy putting potential profits over making a good product, then they fall flat on there face when they release garbage.

Can we get the image hosted somewhere else, without the 403 error?

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Can we get the image hosted somewhere else, without the 403 error?

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For real, do something...

In this thread: Player who thinks their niche perspective is better than the developer's vision.

You do realize, that it is possible, especially in consistant online enviroments such as MMOs, to appeal to SEVERAL niches at once, right?

There are always going to be matters in which, yes, some things will tick off one crowd, and some things will anger another crowd. But idealy, not just for money, but for creating a good game, you make a bit of something for everyone who is to be your audience.

FFXIV's target audience is not FFXI fans. It's Final Fantasy fans, period - with a good helping of people who just like a good game/story/mmo.

Yoshida's goal was quite clear as far as the priotity this game is going to follow.

3. MMORPG
2. RPG
1. Final Fantasy game.

That last one alone may include mechanics that a FFXI player might not like, because, guess what, many FFXI characters weren't FF fans before playing 11.

Can we please bury the dead horse already? This will not be FFXI-2. FFXI is coming out with an expansion. You may find better enjoyment with that game. Hopefully if 2.0 gets FFXIV on its feet, funds from both games will help one another. (FFXI is getting FFXIV's combat designer as lead developer here soon anyways.)

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Can we please bury the dead horse already? This will not be FFXI-2. FFXI is coming out with an expansion. You may find better enjoyment with that game. Hopefully if 2.0 gets FFXIV on its feet, funds from both games will help one another. (FFXI is getting FFXIV's combat designer as lead developer here soon anyways.)

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This. Please. Instead of trying to turn one game into the other, just play both, or play XI. Whatever.

I'm probably going to go back to XI when the new expansion hits, because the new jobs seem pretty neat, and maybe they'll have Abyssea become completely avoidable, so I don't have to deal with that. I don't see why people complain about this game when FFXI is still there, and still getting updates, for better or worse.

Just give me the god damn discount SE I'm waiting for that before resubbing.

Every MMO for a decade had been a content grind and the Dev teams create a war zone between them selves and the player bases where the players progress and the Devs nerf to prevent it and it always fails because Devs control content, players can't win that fight and Players control Revenue and Devs can't win that fight. Devs give in, players max out, Devs can't add new content, only more grind.

MMO's are worlds. They are not video games like a LAn or Saga based single player. Create a world, add things to it. Add seasons, make them matter. Add towns, add cities, add beasts, add resources, add threats, add rewards, add stuff we can always get, add stuff we can get once and never again.

Don't worry too much, Squenix. You have the foundations of a great MMO in FF14. I know this because I came back. Twice. You are far and away ahead of 99% of the competition. There are out of 50 MMO's I have tried, 5 I ever went back to. Because you have the foundation. I have a character and for whatever reason I can't put in to words, I like her. Now, add the tools to make me feel invested in her. 7 Years, over $10,000 US. That's what CCP got because they were able to do what I am describing with EVE Online. No content, no quests, no paint by numbers story book. They focus on their MMO world. They grow their world and I grow in it.

Just my Opinion.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Can we get the image hosted somewhere else, without the 403 error?

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Done, sorry for being asleep D:

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

Done, sorry for being asleep D:

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Thank you, absolutely agreed with!

Being able to do all jobs on 1 character is an amazing way to feel "attached". If I can hug my character like a poster, I would.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Being able to do all jobs on 1 character is an amazing way to feel "attached".

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I agree with this very much.

The only mistake they are making is targeting a huge audience with little to no content outside of getting to cap level, then at endgame just 1 or 2 istances or raids and calling it a day.

Drawing a stick figure diagram in paint without doing any research or presenting sources does not make you right.

I disagree with the picture, becaue it assumes far, far too much that just isn't true.

First off - it assumes that FFXIV's base targets only non-dedicated members - where it's already proven that many players here have either defected from FFXI, or play both. This goes so much for WoW's base. As much as you would like to believe, WoW's player-base is not as stable as you would think. FFXI had a fluctuating player base as well, but imagine that fluctuating percentage on a scale about one hundred times the size of FFXI's flickering base. They're just as susceptible to finding a home in Eorza as anyone else.

Then there's FF fans - the ones that were dejected by FFXI, not just the ones that are members.

Also, note that none of the Eve Online, Linage 1 -2, and EverQuest hold overs are among the hardcore groups. But if you think for one instance that they are casual - you're dead wrong.

So no - inaccurate depiction is inaccurate. If anything, Hardcore players are more immovable from the games they've already been tapped to play, than the casuals, who can just as easily be converted to hardcore players if the game is right for them.

Create a game that has a wide appeal, and let the players sort out themselves who is hardcore and who is not - that distinction shifts depending on game to game.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I disagree with the picture, becaue it assumes far, far too much that just isn't true.

First off - it assumes that FFXIV's base targets only non-dedicated members - where it's already proven that many players here have either defected from FFXI, or play both. This goes so much for WoW's base. As much as you would like to believe, WoW's player-base is not as stable as you would think. FFXI had a fluctuating player base as well, but imagine that fluctuating percentage on a scale about one hundred times the size of FFXI's flickering base. They're just as susceptible to finding a home in Eorza as anyone else.

Then there's FF fans - the ones that were dejected by FFXI, not just the ones that are members.

Also, note that none of the Eve Online, Linage 1 -2, and EverQuest hold overs are among the hardcore groups. But if you think for one instance that they are casual - you're dead wrong.

So no - inaccurate depiction is inaccurate. If anything, Hardcore players are more immovable from the games they've already been tapped to play, than the casuals, who can just as easily be converted to hardcore players if the game is right for them.

Create a game that has a wide appeal, and let the players sort out themselves who is hardcore and who is not - that distinction shifts depending on game to game.

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Music to my ears.