If 7.0 drops and Scholar doesn’t get anything else to do with their fairy gauge I’m just going to scream. Ever since it was implemented we have been wanting more from this gauge. Right now it’s just not giving.
Most of the time I find myself sitting at 100 gauge with nothing to do with it when no one needs sustained healing. It’s almost like the devs want us to use it on tanks to counter auto attacks but we really don’t need to do that. That’s what’s excogitation is for.
My wish for the 7.0 gauge is either give us an instant single target shield for let’s say 50 gauge on a 30 second cooldown or an aoe instant shield for 100 gauge on a 60 second cooldown.
Or how about a single target damage/defense buff for some gauge. Just want more from this thing.
Please devs after years of begging and pleading. I hope it’s finally time to give us another ability to use with the gauge.
Afterthought: Or to make it even more unique how about certain scholar abilities will buff more using some gauge. For example: Let’s say we have 100 gauge and use expedient. The gauge will be reduced by let’s say 20 gauge to add 5 additional seconds to the speed portion of expedient. Or using sacred soil will reduce the gauge by 30 and add 20 extra potency on top of the regen.
Just some examples.
What do you guys think? Do you also wanna see the fairy gauge get some long overdue luv in 7.0? I know I do. Honestly it’s really my biggest wish for scholar.
Fairy Gauge….
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10-07-2023, 03:43 PMSweetPeteFairy Gauge….
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10-07-2023, 03:48 PMty_taurus
If it were up to me, I'd see the Faerie Gauge reworked into your main resource for healing and rework Aetherflow to be strictly a DPS resource.
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10-07-2023, 04:47 PMPalladiamors
I feel you. Machinists AoE still doesn't factor into either of it's other two main systems and flamethrower still exists in this... flawed form. And our primary mechanic still doesn't interact with our AoE whatsoever but at least the heat gauge does.
I'm rooting for you guys! -
10-07-2023, 06:46 PMSweetPeteIt’s literally just annoying. Why are we sitting at 100 gauge most of the time? We barely even use it. I find myself using it just because nowadays. I toss it on the tank at 100 gauge just to do it lol. I mean just to counter autos because I don’t need it for anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palladiamors
Even if someone is low more than likely I’m gonna throw a lustrate on them anyway not the fey union tether. So it’s useless. I say just make the tether a gcd because why not? I mean eos mainly embraces the tank anyway in dungeons so why not let us use the tether on command and use the fairy gauge for other stuff. -
10-07-2023, 06:47 PMSweetPeteThat would mean we’d have to generate fairy gauge faster too I think. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
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10-07-2023, 07:07 PMty_taurusWe'd need to basically redesign the gauge and how its generated. How much we generate and how much resources cost of your gauge would go into that debate. I'd rather actions cost flat amounts of Faerie Gauge rather than gradually drain it, though I could also see maybe doing something where you have actions that apply certain toggle-able 'stances' to your pet. Basically party members within range of your faerie get some sort of effect: healing over time, mitigation, debuff protection perhaps... And that drains your faerie gauge over time until you toggle it off. But it'd need to be done a very specific way to feel appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPete
I'd actually prefer to see Aetherpact removed as a faerie gauge action and instead just replace Embrace. Rather than hard-casting a heal, you can permanently tether her to any one ally at a time, not unlike Kardia essentially, and she provides a constant regen that's of the strength of Embrace rather than Aetherpact's current potency. This would give you more control over who is receiving healing from Aetherpact, and if we allow your pet to perform other actions while tethered, this can greatly improve the responsiveness of the faerie, as like with summoner's Carbuncle, she will never have to wait until her GCD of Embrace ends before performing an action you command her to perform. I'd also lessen the particle effects of the tether so your tank isn't constantly being blinded by a glittering green light. -
10-07-2023, 08:59 PMSweetPeteYeah I actually love all of your ideas. Are you sure you don’t work for square as a new dev? lol just kidding. Anyway, I love the idea of building faerie gauge then activating an ability that gives a buff/mitigation while it drains the gauge. Such an awesome idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Yeah I also agree with removing embrace and just making the tether the perma embrace on a party member. That would be amazing. -
10-07-2023, 09:12 PMty_taurusI actually applied to SE actually as a tester for FFXIV but I never got the position. This was a long time ago though, before Endwalker. I do work in games though, just nothing quite at this scale. It's tough to conceptualize actual reworks without a prototyping build. I love to theorycraft different ideas for addressing the healers, but I very often go back and rework those ideas after I find flaws in them. It'd be much easier if I actually had a place to test those ideas and also teammates interested in helping solidify a concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPete
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10-08-2023, 04:17 AMRenathras
They either need to have something else use it OR get rid of it at this point. They could just make Aetherpact a toggle, lower its potency by 10-15% or so, and dump the gauge and nothing would really be changed other than Aetherpact would be slightly more useful (ironically) and we wouldn't have a full gauge sitting there unused all the time.
Alternatively, they could make Energy Drain pull from that gauge (which I suppose would be something else using it...), which would arguably be more useful at this point.
Or they could get rid of Aetherflow entirely, have Faerie Gauge build over time, and have Soil, Lustrate, Excog, and Indom pull off of it. And delete Energy Drain.
Aetherflow as an "attack gauge" I disagree with because...what's the point? We shift all AF abilities to Faerie Gauge and have "the Energy Drain gauge"? That seems just as bad to me as "the Aetherpact gauge". Especially since the whole "draw" of ED right now is as an AF dump when you don't need to use AF for healing (or can avoid using it for healing to do a smidge more damage with ED), meaning we could simply remove Aetherflow and Energy Drain from the Job at that point and just be done with them. Plus side, would free up a couple buttons worth of hotbar bloat.
I'd honestly be fine at this point just deleting Aetherflow and Energy Drain, shifting the other AF spenders to Faerie Gauge (hopefully with different costs; Lustrate could be cheap, for example), probably get rid of Aetherpact at that point (or make it a toggle that uses no gauge), and just work things that way. Overcapping would be far less an issue if the abilities were priced right, and their Gauge costs could be adjusted to reflect their relative power levels, like Soil/Indom costing 50 and Lustrate costing 20-25, etc. -
10-08-2023, 05:55 AMty_taurusI think it goes without saying that I'm referring to having more than just Energy Drain for Aetherflow to be spent on, or more specifically, removing Energy Drain and introducing a few new actions meant for this reworked Aetherflow. The point is to offer more avenues for offensive gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renathras
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10-08-2023, 07:35 AMRenathrasNo, I get that, but it in practice will end up being something like "Fester unless on CD, Bane if in AOE unless on CD, Energy Drain otherwise". There are so many kinds of attack spells. Something like Fester but has a 60 or 30 sec CD, Bane with the same, and Energy Drain as the dump for when you're in single target (Fester) or AOE (Bane) and the respective "better skill" is on CD. We could add Energy Siphon as the AOE ED, but it's still the same thing. Basically adding a whole bunch of buttons that aren't actually doing anything interesting and ends up being "use the good one on CD, use the bad one to dump excess". Might do something like work one in as an MP regen tool...but for that to matter, MP management would actually have to be a thing. Energy Siphon/Bane would actually need to really have a lot of AOE stuff in the game other than just dungeon pulls to justify.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
Alternatively, you could make it the crux of SCH's damage kit, have everything other than Broil use Aetherflow and have SCH truly go totally oGCD kit. Bio uses AF, Miasma uses AF, Shadow Flare uses AF, etc.
...which honestly would be interesting, but not sure anyone would propose it. -
10-08-2023, 07:49 AMty_taurusThen you have even more GCDs dedicated to Broil, which is the opposite of the goal. Alternatively, another line of thinking I've had was doing more with your tactics actions...Quote:
Originally Posted by Renathras
For your neutral, we'd at least see Broil, Biolysis reworked into a 15 second instant cast DoT while Miasmolysis (or Bio III and Miasma III if I had it my way), as a hardcast 30 second DoT. Deployment Tactics spreads barriers when targeted party members and spreads DoTs when targeting enemies. Emergency Tactics, on the other hand, is reworked. When used, it swaps Physick for Protraction, Adloquium for Lustrate, and Succor for Indomitability, with those specific actions being changed into GCD heals. Additionally we add a new action in "Engagement Tactics" or if we prefer a more simple "Combat Tactics." This works the same as our reworked Emergency Tactics, only it swaps Broil, Biolysis, and Miasmolysis for more potent actions, a stronger attack that's also AoE in Meltdown, A powerful third DoT in Pain that can also be spread through Deployment, and an attack that's not quite as strong as Meltdown, but greatly restores your MP in Osmose. Or something along those lines. This is a little similar to Eukrasia on Sage, but would be OGCD conversion actions rather than the shortened GCD environment Sage creates. -
10-08-2023, 11:22 AMAravellHonestly, I disagree with this. Separating the 2 gauges into purely for healing and purely for damage strips away meaningful choice from the job. SCH is unique among the healers where it currently has additional considerations to make when optimising damage. For example, instead of only thinking "Will this tool be up again when I need it?", SCHs also have to think "Can I get away with not using Soil here?" or "Can I burn ED here and have Aetherflow be up in time for when I need Indom?" or "Should I burn all stacks here and use Dissipation? Or will I need Seraph within 30s?", all these are unique considerations that only SCH has.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
By separating the gauges into purely for one purpose, you are stripping any extra considerations away in favour of making it just like any other healer in terms on optimisation. This does not appeal to people like me who want meaningful choice. If people want totally lossless healing with no extra considerations, there already are 3 healer jobs they can play, I'd rather not see any remaining vestigial thought required to be gutted out of SCH with no replacement. -
10-08-2023, 11:59 AMty_taurusYou know, I actually referenced this concept before somewhere and specified that it could also have a tool that converts Aetherflow into Faerie gauge specifically to retain that aspect of choice--that you have the ability to change a damage resource into more healing for such situations, and the response I got from someone was "What's the point of having them be separate resources then if I can just convert one to the other?" And that was the end of that conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
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10-08-2023, 12:46 PMSweetPete
Hopefully we can see some big changes to the fairy gauge in 7.0. I really like that idea of using a skill and it drains the fairy gauge. Kinda reminds me of old bard’s foe requiem ability. It use to drain mp while in effect.
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10-08-2023, 03:00 PMAravellSeeing you mentioned conversion made me have an idea. What if they returned Eos and Selene as separate fairies with a twist?Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
When Eos is out, you're granted the buff "Offensive Tactics", all your Aetherflow actions will be offensive while all of Eos' fairy gauge skills are healing/defensive.
When Selene is out, you're granted the buff "Preservation Tactics", all your Aetherflow actions will be the healing and defensive stuff we have now while all of Selene's fairy gauge skills will be offensive.
They can add an OGCD action called "Aspect Shift" or something which swaps between fairies.
This preserves the tactical aspect of SCH by making both gauges multipurpose while also making both fairies have a use as you'd want to swap between them as their abilities come up for maximum effect. -
10-08-2023, 04:02 PMty_taurusThe problem is either your Eos Aetherflow DPS abilities will be stronger, or your Selene Fearie Gauge DPS actions will be stronger. Whichever faerie wins is the right answer, and the other is the wrong answer. It's basically more steps involved with Summoner's old pets from Stormblood and earlier, where there was just a right pet and a wrong pet. If you aren't soloing with Titan, do you want Garuda or Garuda but worse? Only in this case the question is whether or not you need the healing from the better faerie. For example, if it's determined that Eos is the stronger of the two, then the question is if you need her Faerie Gauge healing, or if you could just swap to Selene and burn that gauge on DPS. In that sense you might end up with two DPS gauges where you avoid the healing unless absolutely necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
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10-08-2023, 04:15 PMAravellI don't think jobs should be designed around the right answer and the wrong answer, if everyone is meant to arrive at the right answer, you just get bland and unimaginative jobs and no one wants that. I've always said that jobs shouldn't be as they are now with only one right answer and everything else is wrong, I want jobs to be designed in a way that you have multiple answers and they're varying degrees of right, so there's no wrong answer but every answer comes with varying degrees of loss, optimisation would become mitigating losses as much as possible instead of finding the one correct answer and doing the same thing over and over for eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
The point of my example is that both fairies bring different benefits with varying cooldowns, there will also be a button to swap between them and it's OGCD. Not swapping between them is a dps loss because both gauges are multipurpose, but it's not a wrong answer as you can use only one fairy for the entire time and still clear content, it's just an answer that comes with a bigger loss than another answer. -
10-08-2023, 10:30 PMForsakenRoe
Yeh the first thing that comes to mind with 'Fairy handles the opposite side of damage/healing that the SCH does' is that you'd need to, ideally, swap fairies on the fly because of the inherent CD on skills. So you'd use all your Fairy Gauge stuff on Eos for healing, then when she's out of gas, you swap her for Selene so that you (the SCH) cover healing while Selene does her damage stuff, then flip back. I imagine you'd swap roughly once per 30s, and you 'could' just camp one Fairy and not swap, if you really wanted, but then you'd cap on one of the two gauges (as we tend to do now), so hot-swapping would be the way to go, to keep either gauge from overcapping. Or you could purposely not swap in the leadup to a known healcheck (eg Harrowing), so you can pool up both gauges and go in with everything prepared
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10-09-2023, 01:51 AMty_taurusI would love for that to happen. But I think it would require a very significant change in XIV's combat system in order to achieve that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
If the goal is to create a situation where the optimal route is to use your DPS aetherflow, then swap over to the other faerie to use your DPS faerie gauge, then I think having the two gauges as they are currently would be odd. Why wouldn't you, in that case, have a single gauge in that example that simply "Flips." Spending gauge on one half generates gauge on the other half? I'll do a mock up...
Wouldn't something like this make more sense?
https://i.imgur.com/Vfsk9Pb.jpg
The same would be true in reverse, and the cycle repeats itself. We'd cut the faerie gauge entirely at that point. You'd have unique DPS options with Eos' charges and different ones for Selene's, but either could be spent on the same healing options, like Lustrate/Indom or whatever you had in mind, so you can always opt to sacrifice damage for healing as needed, but it feels like that would be a much cleaner interpretation of your concept. -
10-09-2023, 02:38 AMConnor
I love the idea of returning Selene as an actual entity and not just a skin for Eos. That said, I feel like the devs throwing her in the Glamours bin kind of means she’ll unfortunately never get her own chance to shine again. Which, I could maybe forgive if Seraph had its own unique ability set so it’s not just ‘Eos on Steroids’, but I guess that too much decisions for us in SE’s eyes lol
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10-09-2023, 09:40 AMAravellWhile that would indeed be cleaner and look less convoluted, the main aim of this thread is to make the fairy gauge useful, which is what I based my suggestion on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
I like your idea too though, like using one aspect strengthens the other aspect. Maybe in your system, they can make Dissipation grant max stacks of both fairy aether and then the opposite fairy gets resummoned after Dissipation ends. Could be an interesting concept if just deleting the fairy gauge is an option. -
10-09-2023, 09:53 AMty_taurusYou could do something like each use of these faerie actions adds 10 to the Faerie gauge, and when it hits 120, you get to Summon Seraph. I say 120 because that would result in Summon Seraph after every 4 Summon Eos/Selenes rather than every 3.3 Eos/Selenes. But that does make the faerie gauge still very one dimensional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravell
Or maybe you can spend some gauge to access a weaker Seraph action prematurely. Like maybe you can use a free instant raise that costs faerie gauge, offsetting your Summon Seraph phase but allowing you to more rapidly pick up a struggling party.