Healing is not hard

Please drop your ego. Why is it that so many healers pretend they're god's greatest gift to their static or party finder ? You ain't playing anything hard. Stop the egotripping.

thank u

Not in the best position to comment here really, as haven't tried playing Healer in any meaningful way..... because I hate the idea of any team relying on me for anything other than DPS for one.

I guess this all comes back to the over-discussed 'opinions' issue, but I do wish some forumites were more open-minded. I mean, I feel absolutely humiliated when I mention, here, that I still find the game difficult.

Yo, I remember a few times in duty finder where I pissed my healer off so they resolved to not heal me... only they couldn't stop themselves from hitting Medica 2 every five seconds or prevent Eos from just doing her thing, so I never died.

Hilarious stuff. Healing is so easy they couldn't intentionally fail at it. Especially now that tanking is super sustainable, even beyond the tank themselves, it takes a concerted effort between the tank and the healer for anyone in their party to die.

Love the idea that there's still ego tripping healers out there pissing off OP; far as I can tell they don't normally come to this forum. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

Healer is the eaiest to play when it comes to abilites,rotation..ect
Healer difficulty is tied to your group and content you do.

I dont find healing hard, but terrible groups can make healing chaotic ( but i kinda enjoy that).
But it require more splitted focus than the other roles.
so in that sense it's "harder" than the other roles - when things goes bad.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Please drop your ego. Why is it that so many healers pretend they're god's greatest gift to their static or party finder ? You ain't playing anything hard. Stop the egotripping.

thank u

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Feels kind of bait tbh?

I haven’t seen powertrippy healers since the days of HW.

In casual content any old healer with a pulse is all you ever need. In extremes the enrage checks are lax enough that again, there’s very little pressure outside of being able to survive mechanics and contribute cool-downs etc.

Feel free to prove me wrong with recent examples though++

your bait is as bad as our healer kits op. a shame, since you've had some good takes in general.
You aren't wrong though, healing is an absolute joke in most content and the little it isnt requires a skilled healer. A skilled healer, 2 is excessive.

but for any idiot who wanders in here. Yes, an experienced healer's complex and bitterness is completely justified. A good healer is rare these days because they've all quit

This post is about me and I really appreciate the personal attention. I will no longer be on an ego trip while I play. The problem has officially been solved.

You're welcome

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Please drop your ego. Why is it that so many healers pretend they're god's greatest gift to their static or party finder ? You ain't playing anything hard. Stop the egotripping.

thank u

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Not saying that I agree with ego-tripping as a healer, but healing in Party Finder (especially reclear parties) is most of the time hard and stressful for all the wrong reasons.

Find a static, then! Even if my schedule allowed... healing in statics is the complete opposite of being too easy and boring as it can be.

OP is right, we're nothing special. We're expendable, replaceable. The TOP no-healer run proved it.

SE should make healers so hard to perform on that it DOES justify an ego. Just as an april fools or something. It'd be interesting to see how many of the 'healers should be about healing' players eat crow when it turns out they cannot keep up on healing. Just make everything hit like on-content Living Liquid TEA for a day or two

OP I'm sad that this is the best that you could come up with for the healer forums after all of your hard work in the other forums. I guess you're better off creating another thread on FFXIV and YouTube content creators.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

OP I'm sad that this is the best that you could come up with for the healer forums after all of your hard work in the other forums. I guess you're better off creating another thread on FFXIV and YouTube content creators.

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Problem with that is that the healer related content creators probably have similar opinions to what a lot of us are asking for, so it's not good for being contrarian, all it'd do is get a lot of 'true and real' responses, then one 'no this is wrong and also false'

But if there were a content creator who were to say, for example, that healing should become even more accessible, eg the DOT should be removed too, then it'd get relinked frame 1

You're depressing me further Forsaken, and it isn't quite cocktail hour yet.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

This post is about me and I really appreciate the personal attention. I will no longer be on an ego trip while I play. The problem has officially been solved.

You're welcome

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A healer with a martyr complex, how unusual.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Please drop your ego. Why is it that so many healers pretend they're god's greatest gift to their static or party finder ? You ain't playing anything hard. Stop the egotripping.

thank u

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I think if you play a role that is so mind numbingly boring and torture you develop a negative attitude. I mean I don’t like bad attitude but in a twist these people that are healer mains do sacrifice there own health and fun so that you can do content. ( sry for the small sh*t post here)

But in all fairness I rarely see healer or any other people being vocal in chat or ingame, they rather leave parties without saying anything because you will get banned for hurting special snowflakes feelings.

What I do see more then anything is mega bad healers that can’t react too anything and are as slow as a sloth with arthritis when they are forced too react, it’s like a deer in headlights.

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Originally Posted by Post

Yo, I remember a few times in duty finder where I pissed my healer off so they resolved to not heal me... only they couldn't stop themselves from hitting Medica 2 every five seconds or prevent Eos from just doing her thing, so I never died.

Hilarious stuff. Healing is so easy they couldn't intentionally fail at it. Especially now that tanking is super sustainable, even beyond the tank themselves, it takes a concerted effort between the tank and the healer for anyone in their party to die.

Love the idea that there's still ego tripping healers out there pissing off OP; far as I can tell they don't normally come to this forum. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

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I can have Eos and Medica 2?

Water is wet

Everyone knows God's gift to the party is DNC. ｡ﾟ✶ฺ.ヽ(*´∀`*)ﾉ.✶ฺﾟ｡

To the OP, feel free to create your own party and skip the healers & just bring potions. Content is not that hard just remember to bring a warrior with you.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

I can have Eos and Medica 2?

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Don't take my Eukrasia. ;-;

Haha..
I don't play healer, so I won't really know, but from my impressions on last raids from a PF only perspective, the content is hard enough to heal...

So forum healers usually being on the more skillfull side (and also quite on the egotrip side lets be honest), all will disagree and say that the content is dead easy.
This is even more true if you get healers exclusively playing in a static.

However for PF the difficulty is well balanced.
Example, I've only ran once with a healer binome that didn't needed lb3 to pass harrowing hell.
Each and everytime lb3 was spent beforehand a failed bond 3 or w/ever, we would inevitably wipe on harrowing hell due to healers not being able to heal through, despite throwing all the mitig we, non-healers, could.
Or the speedo run.... boy did PF healers struggle with that.
There are so many moments I felt healers were just overwhelmed with the quantity of "regular" damage - not even talking about when people (and I) messed up...

Maybe they should add special achievements for people finding it too easy ?
They used to do something like that in WoW, in which if you did the fight with certain handicaps (not clearing certains debuffs or killing adds) you'd get an achievement.
There would be one or more for each boss fight, and upon completing all achievements, you'd be of course rewarded a super mount...

Like many have stated healing difficulty is based on party. Sometimes healing a DRK can feel like hell on earth other times healing a DRK can be a breeze its. Healing is weird. It can be hard or easy same can be said about tanking and playing dps honestly.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Haha..
I don't play healer, so I won't really know, but from my impressions on last raids from a PF only perspective, the content is hard enough to heal...

So forum healers usually being on the more skillfull side (and also quite on the egotrip side lets be honest), all will disagree and say that the content is dead easy.
This is even more true if you get healers exclusively playing in a static.

However for PF the difficulty is well balanced.
Example, I've only ran once with a healer binome that didn't needed lb3 to pass harrowing hell.
Each and everytime lb3 was spent beforehand a failed bond 3 or w/ever, we would inevitably wipe on harrowing hell due to healers not being able to heal through, despite throwing all the mitig we, non-healers, could.
Or the speedo run.... boy did PF healers struggle with that.
There are so many moments I felt healers were just overwhelmed with the quantity of "regular" damage - not even talking about when people (and I) messed up...

Maybe they should add special achievements for people finding it too easy ?
They used to do something like that in WoW, in which if you did the fight with certain handicaps (not clearing certains debuffs or killing adds) you'd get an achievement.
There would be one or more for each boss fight, and upon completing all achievements, you'd be of course rewarded a super mount...

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So what do you think these healers are doing the majority of the time outside the short bit where HH ruins their day?

Did you guess "pres the same one gcd button 100+ times"? Bc that's the issue with healers.
Not the difficulty of healer checks, but how boring healing is the vast majority of time and in most content.

Granted I have only tanked savage this expac (and with a static) but even when I poke my head into PF for healing EX trials, unless you need to drag a prog party to enrage despite someone licking every aoe and thus needing special Babysitter Attention, it is exceedingly monotonous in between the few handfull of heal checks.

i only find healing hard when the tank forget to use there shield or heal moves, or the team running into the fire every time they can , but if you have a good team , healing is boring and nothing more then spamming one button for a rock spell.. only a bad team make me feel like a healer

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Haha..
I don't play healer, so I won't really know, but from my impressions on last raids from a PF only perspective, the content is hard enough to heal...

So forum healers usually being on the more skillfull side (and also quite on the egotrip side lets be honest), all will disagree and say that the content is dead easy.
This is even more true if you get healers exclusively playing in a static.

However for PF the difficulty is well balanced.
Example, I've only ran once with a healer binome that didn't needed lb3 to pass harrowing hell.
Each and everytime lb3 was spent beforehand a failed bond 3 or w/ever, we would inevitably wipe on harrowing hell due to healers not being able to heal through, despite throwing all the mitig we, non-healers, could.
Or the speedo run.... boy did PF healers struggle with that.
There are so many moments I felt healers were just overwhelmed with the quantity of "regular" damage - not even talking about when people (and I) messed up...

Maybe they should add special achievements for people finding it too easy ?
They used to do something like that in WoW, in which if you did the fight with certain handicaps (not clearing certains debuffs or killing adds) you'd get an achievement.
There would be one or more for each boss fight, and upon completing all achievements, you'd be of course rewarded a super mount...

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Hm...yeah, pretty much this, honestly.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I think this, and/or Mage Tower style solo challenges with cosmetic rewards, would be a great addition to this game for the skilled players to test themselves against. Issue is, it gatekeeps less skilled players from being able to complete it, and SE is very unlikely to want to lock 'the cool new thing' behind challenging content (especially if it cannot be unsynced later). Just look how many times you see people asking for old Ults to be unsyncable

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Honestly, they may just do more Criterion Dungeon type stuff.

Make a set of content, give it a spread of difficulties, that way everyone gets the same story and such out of it, and make the high end rewards MB-able for the people that really want them.

Criterion is actually a good system since it allows for MSQ, normal, hard, extreme, savage, ultimate levels of difficulty while everyone gets to "see" the content and it's still overall accessible.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Maybe they should add special achievements for people finding it too easy ?
They used to do something like that in WoW, in which if you did the fight with certain handicaps (not clearing certains debuffs or killing adds) you'd get an achievement.
There would be one or more for each boss fight, and upon completing all achievements, you'd be of course rewarded a super mount...

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I think this, and/or Mage Tower style solo challenges with cosmetic rewards, would be a great addition to this game for the skilled players to test themselves against. Issue is, it gatekeeps less skilled players from being able to complete it, and SE is very unlikely to want to lock 'the cool new thing' behind challenging content (especially if it cannot be unsynced later). Just look how many times you see people asking for old Ults to be unsyncable

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I think this, and/or Mage Tower style solo challenges with cosmetic rewards, would be a great addition to this game for the skilled players to test themselves against. Issue is, it gatekeeps less skilled players from being able to complete it, and SE is very unlikely to want to lock 'the cool new thing' behind challenging content (especially if it cannot be unsynced later). Just look how many times you see people asking for old Ults to be unsyncable

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We have The Necromancer, Lone Hero, and The Once and Future Monarch. Oh, and ALL OF THE BOZJA DUELS.
Ranked PvP doesn't count because it's PvP, and crafting is crafting.

Skill issue.

As in "how much skill does the game want you to bring".

Am sure ya know the answer :D

Healing in general isn't difficult no, there are situations that are difficult to heal though. Usually when everything is on fire.

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Originally Posted by lennit

i only find healing hard when the tank forget to use there shield or heal moves, or the team running into the fire every time they can , but if you have a good team , healing is boring and nothing more then spamming one button for a rock spell.. only a bad team make me feel like a healer

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Oh, there's a bigger problem than this, which I think is a major issue right now (sorry, missed this before):

On the one hand, if everyone's doing everything right, there's relatively little to heal in many fights...

...but on the other hand, if people are mssing up, SO MANY mechanics just one shot them, there's nothing you even CAN do as a healer to save them. You just scoop them up off the floor. That, or them dying causes the party to fail a body-check and the entire group wipes.

Not only is there little to heal in general, when people are messing up in high end content, the damage is so unforgiving that it often leads to direct death or a total party wipe anyway, meaning healers have very little agency aside from being trained monkeys that hit their designated oGCD heal after each wave of mild, scripted, unavoidable damage. They neither are stressed to heal in general nor can they in the cases things do go wrong, aside from stuff like 24 mans. Even in the "soft screw up" cases (P5S's poison, ZeromusEx's...also poison come to think of it, if someone pops one of the spheres), while you CAN heal them through them, at level these tend to be fatal unless the healers are on the ball with...well...their oGCD heals ( <_< ) and blow a bunch on saving the person. But at least there's SOMETHING there, unlike so many that just outright one-shot the person.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Haha..
I don't play healer, so I won't really know, but from my impressions on last raids from a PF only perspective, the content is hard enough to heal....

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As a Party Finder raider, I actually find healing challenging, and that's simply due to the inconsistency of people in the Party Finder, especially your co-healer.

I said this in other thread, but I'm constantly throwing GCD healing because I don't trust them, which hurts my personal DPS as a healer... But that's okay, I guess. Add to the fact that people are not consistent with their mechanic resolving, so you might have to exhaust your spot healing ogcds pretty fast. Or tanks that don't mit properly and eat so much from the tankbusters that you need to spam your single target heal. Or just having to stop so much to rez on stuff the prog point is past by because people lie about where they progged at.

While I find 'glarespam' boring, I also don't know how well I'd do in the Party Finder with a much more complex rotation, so that's kind of a conundrum to me, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

As a Party Finder raider, I actually find healing challenging, and that's simply due to the inconsistency of people in the Party Finder, especially your co-healer.

I said this in other thread, but I'm constantly throwing GCD healing because I don't trust them, which hurts my personal DPS as a healer... But that's okay, I guess. Add to the fact that people are not consistent with their mechanic resolving, so you might have to exhaust your spot healing ogcds pretty fast. Or tanks that don't mit properly and eat so much from the tankbusters that you need to spam your single target heal. Or just having to stop so much to rez on stuff the prog point is past by because people lie about where they progged at.

While I find 'glarespam' boring, I also don't know how well I'd do in the Party Finder with a much more complex rotation, so that's kind of a conundrum to me, lol.

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As a PF healer I have a love/hate relationship with this kind of thing. I main ast and sub sch and on the tree boss this expansion I fully went scholar because we kept getting scholars who would sooner let the tanks die to the dot than use aetherflow to heal it, which would cause me to GCD heal completely erasing the benefit of their energy drains.

On the first boss of the current tier I played scholar again because shield healers in PF are now the bane of my existence, but I had my OGCD's planned perfectly with what the whm we had would do both on pull and for the first fire/ice/lightning to the point where neither of us had to GCD heal, and then they started using medica 2 on every aoe.

This made me so mad. It wasn't needed, we had it perfect.

Then on p8s as scholar I had a whm who didn't want to use regen on the dots towards the end. I was over there using all my aetherflow flow and faeries link on them and they threw a fit about having to "soil their dps" to regen them. I just could not. Keep in mind I was already losing GCD for spreadlo to counter all the damage and mitigate dot damage there.

I hate the current design of healing because it's literally a "do as little as possible" game and it's the reason for almost all of the struggles I have with healing partners in savage.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

I hate the current design of healing because it's literally a "do as little as possible" game and it's the reason for almost all of the struggles I have with healing partners in savage.

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I feel like this can be solved (partially) by having design where our damage builds towards healing tools, and healing tools build towards damage. Like, WHMs are fine with smacking Plenary Rapture when it's needed, because it doesn't cost damage, you get it back via Misery

Knowing SE though, instead of an actual gameplay loop like me/others have suggested, they'd go 'oh okay so here's a new thing at 98: a trait that makes Thin Air also cause the next garbo-GCD like Medica2 or Cure2 nourish the Blood Lily by one step'. Now you can Med2 and it's 'technically damage neutral' but like... damn that'd be bland

Stop booing them, they're right!

Seriously, the only time a healer gets to heal meaningfully is when content is new and people are getting hit by stuff.

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Originally Posted by Averax

Stop booing them, they're right!

Seriously, the only time a healer gets to heal meaningfully is when content is new and people are getting hit by stuff.

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To me is funny that is true... however this doesn't really feel that good to me. I mean, I am healing, but knowing that what is coveted for a healer - their spammy dps - is being traded off, makes me feel bittersweet about doing 'the job'.

That's probably why healing in WoW (my only other good reference) feels rewarding. Outside of very specific runs, healers aren't expected to weight in a lot of dps, and so, released from that burden, keeping people alive feels great.

It's frustrating, because Square Enix has gotten half of healing absolutely perfect: the class "feel" and aesthetics. Playing a white mage is just bliss from an aesthetics standpoint, and the spell toolbox is pretty solid.

But then the other half - content to heal - just feels bad. The binary nature of damage and how over-provisioned healers are for incoming damage output means that that healing kit lays fallow, as I play the "heal as little as possible game" and spam glare over and over and over and over and...

This is a problem with any MMO to some extent; as your group gears up and learns mechanics you have less and less to do, potentially swapping out healers when content is on farm. But FFXIV takes it to the next level by giving everything a giant telegraph and whittling down the unavoidable damage to almost nothing.

So I end up in the following cycle every expansion:
1. OK I'm going to ignore WHM and play a nice damage dealer this time.
2. Ooo, but I remember WHM being so damn aesthetically awesome!
3. Level level level.
4. Oh yeah, there's nothing to heal.

I think the issue isn't healer is not hard it's just not Fun.

Healer needs to be changed Imo, It creates issues with how other jobs are designed also, what's even the point of strong utility from a ranged/tank job (or any other) when it doesn't save a GCD because healer already has way too many ogcds.

Personally I'd want some decrease in OGCDs, healing potency (this applies to tanks aswell, esp AOE healing), fights with more AOE damage, allow tanks to pull more ect. So healers have to spend at least a good amount of time GCD healing, obviously I'm not against healer doing damage but doing damage as a healer should be a optimisation not something you can have 100% uptime on.

Simply making healers heal more is not going to solve the problem either because if you take a really hard look at the healing toolkit it is, while incredibly overloaded, utterly bland.

Outside of a few interesting effects like Lillybell, Macrocosmos and maybe Haima/Panhaima they are bog standard "make HP or eHP bar go up by X" spells. They have barely any interaction between each other and are more often than not just fire and forget skills.

So all that would happen when you increase the consistently incoming damage, and bring it closer to WoW's attrition healing, would be that you replace 80 of the 130 boring Glare casts with equally boring Cure/Cure 2/Cure 3/Medica casts.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Simply making healers heal more is not going to solve the problem either because if you take a really hard look at the healing toolkit it is, while incredibly overloaded, utterly bland.

Outside of a few interesting effects like Lillybell, Macrocosmos and maybe Haima/Panhaima they are bog standard "make HP or eHP bar go up by X" spells. They have barely any interaction between each other and are more often than not just fire and forget skills.

So all that would happen when you increase the consistently incoming damage, and bring it closer to WoW's attrition healing, would be that you replace 80 of the 130 boring Glare casts with equally boring Cure/Cure 2/Cure 3/Medica casts.

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Healers should heal more, healers job shouldn't be 100% DPS uptime.
I'm not saying healers should only use heals, they should be actively switching between damage and healing, which would make healing alot more fun (along with more buttons). At least to me fitting in as much damage as possible while also keeping people alive is fun. (while casual healers can just heal lots, so it wouldn't even be a hard role to get into).

But just giving healers more dps kits doesn't actually "fix healers" it just turns healers into DPS roles. Although not to say adding DPS is bad, just that they need to actually let healers be healers first and foremost

Give them both.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Simply making healers heal more is not going to solve the problem either because if you take a really hard look at the healing toolkit it is, while incredibly overloaded, utterly bland.

Outside of a few interesting effects like Lillybell, Macrocosmos and maybe Haima/Panhaima they are bog standard "make HP or eHP bar go up by X" spells. They have barely any interaction between each other and are more often than not just fire and forget skills.

So all that would happen when you increase the consistently incoming damage, and bring it closer to WoW's attrition healing, would be that you replace 80 of the 130 boring Glare casts with equally boring Cure/Cure 2/Cure 3/Medica casts.

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I would disagree. Even in other MMOs with simple healing spells (e.g., Vanilla WoW), the challenge was in the triage and resource management, without skills being whiz-bang intricate game design capstones. Do you risk a slower, more efficient heal or drop your fast inefficient heal to avoid a tank staying in the death zone? Is your MP consumption sustainable? Are you standing in the optimal place for AoE heals to be effective? How long can you save your emergency cooldowns, in case there is an error? Some of the "simple heals, high skill ceiling" concepts like cancel-casting big slow heals isn't really feasible with FFXIV's engine and game design, but you absolutely will be stimulated if enough incoming damage hits to where healing requires strategic choices.

I agree that FFXIV throws too many tools at healers, and some of these options should be swapped out for mitigation cooldowns. But don't knock triage without trying it.