Variant and Criterion are not good content, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise

What does the multiple paths in Variant entail ? Push a tree or not push a tree, and the difference is the boss does a donut or a line aoe ? So why do we need to spend 25 minutes doing the whole dungeon just to choose not to push a tree this time ? The choices are so boring and does not tell any story, half the time the choices you make has nothing to do with the log book entry lore.

And Criterion is just a few short Savage bosses in a straight line corridor with reused mechanics from Savage and Ultimate... Nothing fresh.

I just really wish the rewards were worth it, but alas, they're not.


https://media.tenor.com/5aF7np_zPEgA...e-the-frog.gif

Doing the variant blind and figuring out all the exits on ones own is extremely rewarding imo.

Savage is pretty fun the first time but there’s 0 incentive to reclear it

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Doing the variant blind and figuring out all the exits on ones own is extremely rewarding imo.

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You are literally "works on my machine" as a person... If the game is so perfect for you why do you keep lurking around the place for feedback? It's like going to a tech support forums and only instead of helping you just say you don't have the issue.

The content is good it just needs to have better reward or be integrated to the relic maybe…

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

You are literally "works on my machine" as a person... If the game is so perfect for you why do you keep lurking around the place for feedback? It's like going to a tech support forums and only instead of helping you just say you don't have the issue.

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I’m not sure how this response is taken from that post? I agree with them to some degree finding out the bits on your own rather then waiting to go to a Reddit collab post to do it all for you then going to the forums to say the content leant last long is another thought process one could have lol (not saying that applies to you here more a common mindset)

The content has little to no replay-ability on the casual side

I’m fine with criterion as a different take on savage but it needs better rewards

Meanwhile variant is boring, uninspired and a terrible replacement for field content. What basically amounts to a dungeon you can repeat if you want extremely slight changes isnt repeatable content AND it has terrible rewards

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Doing the variant blind and figuring out all the exits on ones own is extremely rewarding imo.

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Did the variants too, but only for the mounts. Fortunately it had guides for each path by then but no guides for bosses.

Trash packs were uninteresting, especially since I learned you could switch jobs once you're in there, so I'd always play SMN to clear the packs easier.

The puzzles were interesting, but not so interesting that I could see myself doing them repeatedly.

Variant is kinda mid which is why I dont really agree to putting more incentives like tying the relic to it. If you think it's boring content why do you want to have to do more of it? What would improve it? Probably a more indepth variant action system. Whacky lost actions seemed to be something people enjoy using.

Criterion I really like. As I said in my comment on the zepla video I have very strong opinions how purely reward driven MMO players are but I'm not gonna complain about more rewards for the content I like doing. I think the criterion bosses are actually pretty fun to do and imo they really try to use mechanics that make more sense in a 4 player setting but would be an insufferable clustertrucks for a full party.

Then... don't do it?

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

I just really wish the rewards were worth it, but alas, they're not.

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Can you elaborate on this? What is wrong with the current reward structure that makes it unrewarding? What could they do better? Have you ever actually thought about this or are you just repeating buzzwords from talking head internet personalities?

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

Can you elaborate on this? What is wrong with the current reward structure that makes it unrewarding? What could they do better? Have you ever actually thought about this or are you just repeating buzzwords from talking head internet personalities?

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Try to get into Criterion. Find out there's not that many people who want to do it. Look for an explanation. Lack of rewards seems like a reasonable one. You can't even gear in Criterion for Criterion.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Try to get into Criterion. Find out there's not that many people who want to do it. Look for an explanation. Lack of rewards seems like a reasonable one. You can't even gear in Criterion for Criterion.

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Yeah because people are told it's "not rewarding" so they don't do it. That's exactly my point. People are not willing to think for themselves and instead they surrender their capacity to critically think, analyse and even make decisions for themselves to some talking head internet personality that has never met them, doesn't know them, and doesn't care about them. This is the end result of people forfeiting their humanity and becoming literal NPCs. "If you want to do content you have to travel to Aether, it's the PF/content DC" is another prime example.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

Yeah because people are told it's "not rewarding" so they don't do it. That's exactly my point. People are not willing to think for themselves and instead they surrender their capacity to critically think, analyse and even make decisions for themselves to some talking head internet personality that has never met them, doesn't know them, and doesn't care about them. This is the end result of people forfeiting their humanity and becoming literal NPCs. "If you want to do content you have to travel to Aether, it's the PF/content DC" is another prime example.

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That would be very cute if true, mind over matter, people make their own reality type stuff. I'm very partial to this, but the reality is that the talking heads themselves along with the emerging defeatist sentiments are a reaction to a preexisting condition first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

That would be very cute if true, mind over matter, people make their own reality type stuff. I'm very partial to this, but the reality is that the talking heads themselves along with the emerging defeatist sentiments are a reaction to a preexisting condition first and foremost.

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I haven't got an opinion on this yet. I'll get back to you when Zepla uploads her next video and tells me what to think about it.

Have you ever pretended it was?

How do you know that poop tastes bad? Have you ever actually thought about this or are you just repeating buzzwords from talking head internet personalities? This is the end result of people forfeiting their humanity and becoming literal NPCs. "If you want to breathe you have to to go somewhere with breathable air" is another prime example.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

How do you know that poop tastes bad? Have you ever actually thought about this or are you just repeating buzzwords from talking head internet personalities? This is the end result of people forfeiting their humanity and becoming literal NPCs. "If you want to breathe you have to to go somewhere with breathable air" is another prime example.

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Woahhhhhh nice rebuttal you're so smart I bet you're a moderator on r/atheism omfg i didnt even notice you're a male lalafell teehee

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

I bet you're a moderator on r/atheism

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Woah, no need to get that nasty.

Well lets look at the rewards should we? https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Shishu_Coin These are the rewards for the Another Mount Rokkan. Only the frame kit, music roll and the mount are of any real note. The mount itself is also a random drop and it can be bought on the market board.

Now here is the savage version https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...kon_Manuscript

This is even more bare with only the one housing item to be of any note cause the materia you can just get from running expert dungeons and lvl 90 roulettes. You don't get any tomes, no gil or anything else for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Well lets look at the rewards should we? https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Shishu_Coin These are the rewards for the Another Mount Rokkan. Only the frame kit, music roll and the mount are of any real note. The mount itself is also a random drop and it can be bought on the market board.

Now here is the savage version https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...kon_Manuscript

This is even more bare with only the one housing item to be of any note cause the materia you can just get from running expert dungeons and lvl 90 roulettes. You don't get any tomes, no gil or anything else for that matter.

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Okay, so what would be enough of a reward?

For one thing tomes would be neat, Though it would be just another avenue, maybe the savage could be it fills all categories to full regardless of the previous amount. Also maybe make it that once a week you can bypass the tome limit on the weekly of 450. Mount Rokkan savage basically requires you to be bis on your class so it could be another way of gearing alts outside of savage reclears. Add some gil to it too since there really isn't any battle content that offers gil and you make it through crafting and the like.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

Okay, so what would be enough of a reward?

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I feel like this'll be different from person to person, but I was hoping that criterion would be another way to get gear. It doesn't even need to be savage IL, just letting me be able to get one extra piece of tome gear once per week from, say, Another Mount Rokkon for example would be enough.

I think from the savage version, I think what Maltothoris suggested is good for that. It doesn't need to help us gear our main job, but it would be great if they made it an avenue for gearing alt jobs.

In terms of rewards what I definitely wouldn't like is if it made Criterion even more into content you effectively have to also do Savage raids for. It's already set to a max itemlevel that can't be reached by doing Criterion alone and that requires weeks and weeks for people who don't do Savage to get via tomes.

Now the question becomes whether if Criterion offered gear equal to Savage if it wouldn't take away from Savage since 4 people are easier to organize than 8.

My idea would be to offer limited gearing options via Criterion that it itself doesn't effectively require (PF), meaning minimum itemlevel and maximum itemlevel will be the same for Criterion. Like I think it is with Ultimates (so there would be BiS still) and similar to gear-ignorant other battle content like Deep Dungeons.