Endless Item Circulation: Solved

One of the looming problems with most crafted gear is endless circulation in the market.

To address this issue of excess, Aldarin suggested:

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Originally Posted by Aldarin

In ffxi you could trade in crafted items for guild points, why not add something like that to remove equipment from circulation. There was also the fact you could donate equipment for conquest points. Such a system would reward players for crafting even when their items don't sell.

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Makes perfect sense to me. If not already tied in with the upcoming Grand Companies it could be.

When trading in crafted gear for points, what could these points be used for?

Brilliant. Brilliant, I say. Someone give this man a cookie. Completely forgot about this from FFXI.

Agree! This idea not only find from FFXI, but also other OLG which have crafting system. This really make me think crafting more valuable

I would say depending on item optimal rank, a certain amount of guild marks should be given in exchange for the items. So if you trade an optimal rank 10 item in you get maybe 100 marks and maybe max out at 1k marks for the higher level gear.

I would like this. A lot.

I dont think I like this idea unless they alter the prices of items or make a daily/36 hr cap for trades. There are so many excess items right now that if they put this in people would have insane amount of guild points basically making them useless.

I think the better solution is to just make the items good and/or more challenging to obtain.

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Originally Posted by Ava

I dont think I like this idea unless they alter the prices of items or make a daily/36 hr cap for trades. There are so many excess items right now that if they put this in people would have insane amount of guild points basically making them useless.

I think the better solution is to just make the items good and/or more challenging to obtain.

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To a certain degree the problem is of a transient nature, since once the excess items are turned in, things would balance out. However, there is still the issue that the rate at which items can be produced is really QUITE high. It is not difficult to turn out 3 or more velveteen robes an hour, even including time spent gathering the materials.

If items are more difficult to make / obtain, that would kill the ability of crafters / gatherers to rank up, since that is the only mechanism currently available...

Players simply cannot consume items at that rate. So, if such items can be turned in for some sort of points (excepting gil), this would have to be balanced against the rate at which other class-types could earn points.

But perhaps this isn't so bad. Gatherers certainly gather excess of certain types of materials beyond what the crafting market requires, and combat drops could account for a portion of combat characters points, in addition to points from questing.

On a humorous note, I (in the span of maybe three hours) completed and turned in four local leves in Limsa Lominsa for velveteen tabards. For each leve I created 7 velveteen tabards, thus resulting in my delivery of 28 velveteen tabards. The thought kept crossing my mind ... "just what are they using all these tabards for?"

On a more practical note, the points system described above isn't terribly different from the local leve system, excepting the source of the materials. Local leves even offer the chance to gain guild marks.

Items are not bound to you in this game so after you are done using it you can just go ahead and resell it. Something has to create the need to make new items or people will just keep recycling the old ones.

I like the idea of OP. It's to the right direction. :)

The idea works for me. Also from XI were the OP item trades / sales where you could use items to the guards to increase the influence your country had over the area (obviously this could work with companies just as well if companies could gain some benefit from controlling the little out laying towns or something).

I like this idea, if only because I'd love to see a return of the rare/ex class-specific crafting gear. But would it come with the same limitations (daily item change/set amount you can trade in for credit) it had in XI? And even if not, once the rewards have been gained, there would be little point to continuing to use this system - unless there were some type of consumable reward also available, like the autograph crystals - though the only time I used one of those was to try to sign a cheese sandwich. :P But others might find them useful.

I think I like the you break it-you bought it sorta thing with gear becoming untradable once it's been damaged the first time. It was also suggested in the thread the OP is quoting. The gear could still be vendor-able though, and perhaps to make up for some of the lost gil for the customer, a guild shop could pay more for the item if its of their trade.

That would also benefit crafters churning out items when they grind, if they aren't of the mind to use their retainers, they could get at least a better price from the merchants in the guild they are grinding for.

But, even with this problem, I still find it a little hard to find the exact gear I want. Likely cause I'm not in the 40-50 range yet. I imagine its even more difficult for folks who are just starting out to find decent gear - especially in the color they want.

If they did it just like FF11 did it work out fine instead of trading left over items you would have to make and turn in item the guild was looking for when the guild ask for them. The points you traded for in FF11 are just like guild marks

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Originally Posted by Chione

...I think I like the you break it-you bought it sorta thing with gear becoming untradable once it's been damaged the first time...

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/thumbsup. I really like this idea.

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Originally Posted by Chione

...But, even with this problem, I still find it a little hard to find the exact gear I want. Likely cause I'm not in the 40-50 range yet. I imagine its even more difficult for folks who are just starting out to find decent gear - especially in the color they want.

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Yup! I've noticed this also. This is why I voted against required level on gear because the folks I know who were just starting out either couldn't find or couldn't afford level appropriate gear (although there was a bunch of high rank gear they could afford and find). I think that at least two things would help address the lack of gear for certain ranks:

1. In the MW allow you to search to purchase gear you don't already have.
2. Make synthing lower rank recipes take far less time (make crafter rank vs. recipe rank far more significant than it is today).

If folks could search for what they want then I would know the item is desired.

If lower rank synths took way less time then I would be tempted to pop a few out to sell. I don't think Hasty Hands really counts but maybe I'm unfairly discounting it. I have noticed that I cat fail HH synths that I never fail manually.

Back to the topic of the OP:
What about trading gear in to the existing guilds to get guild marks from them? Did anyone mention that yet? I realize that over time you well exceed the required marks to obtain all the abilities but this could be another path to obtaining them and bleed items out of circulation.

So more thoughts on uses for "points":

• As mentioned above - guild marks.
• Trade for Anima
• Trade for Guardian's Favor.
• Trade for "vouchers" (Chocobo Ride, Airship Ride, ...).
• Trade for special vanity gear?
• Trade to purchase rare materials.
• Trade for items used in some sort of Magian upgrade quests?
• Trade to Wardens in camps related to companies controlling areas. Maybe if your company controls the Camp it's cheaper to teleport there or something?

Have we mentioned desynthing? That ability to break finished or partially finished items down into (some) basic mats would be nice. It would do two things; take finished items out of the world, and provide a means to grind while doing so. As long as the mats you received were less than the mats that went in you have a net a loss, and it should at least help.

Just voicing my support for this idea. My retainers are currently holding enough leather, cloth, and metal to equip a small army because I only have 20 slots to sell things.

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

Have we mentioned desynthing? That ability to break finished or partially finished items down into (some) basic mats would be nice. It would do two things; take finished items out of the world, and provide a means to grind while doing so. As long as the mats you received were less than the mats that went in you have a net a loss, and it should at least help.

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Desynth makes me think of a new DoH class to be added:

Salvager
*Breaks down finished equipment
*Weilds a wrench MH, screwdriver OH
*Ignores class requirement when repairing gear
*Can attempt repairs 5 ranks sooner than other classes

Breaking down equipment would not give shards. If desynthing yielded basic mats that wouldn't help the bigger problem since items are not exiting the market. Only thing I can suggest would be that desynthing gives a new material called Salvage. There could be various types and rarities depending on the optimal rank and base components of the item being broken down. Just have to find a use for Salvage then (besides being a universal repair material).

Reminds me of Cid from FFIV ^^

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Originally Posted by Fieros

Desynth makes me think of a new DoH class to be added:

Salvager
*Breaks down finished equipment
*Weilds a wrench MH, screwdriver OH
*Ignores class requirement when repairing gear
*Can attempt repairs 5 ranks sooner than other classes

Breaking down equipment would not give shards. If desynthing yielded basic mats that wouldn't help the bigger problem since items are not exiting the market. Only thing I can suggest would be that desynthing gives a new material called Salvage. There could be various types and rarities depending on the optimal rank and base components of the item being broken down. Just have to find a use for Salvage then (besides being a universal repair material).

Reminds me of Cid from FFIV ^^

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As long as the items being broken down netted LESS materials than what was initially put in, it would help (though certainly no return of mats would help more). The problem that I see with making it a class specific thing is that there might not be as much of an impact as it could have have if anyone could desynth. That said, I REALLY like the idea of a salvager as a class, especially if they had repair abilities like you mentioned. The question is what ELSE could they do that is worth while? Aside form being able to repair stuff, what do they actually craft? I'm not sure I can think of anything, to be honest, especially since items don't actually break in this game (Which is good, because OMFG, breaking fishing poles in 11 got expensive!).

Hmmm... If there were more clock-work or tech type stuff in the game, you could call them Tinkerer instead, and have them specialize in stuff like that (though it might infringe on GLD and ALC a little). Perhaps parts like pullies for compound bows. Clocks as furniture for moghouses (once we get them). Bits and bridles for chocobos? Flint lock / matchlock mechanisms for muskets. Locks for gauntlets and swords? Obviously anything for articulated tools; maybe parts for a loom for weaver off-hand alternative, or mill/press for cul. Just a couple things that come to mind.

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

As long as the items being broken down netted LESS materials than what was initially put in, it would help (though certainly no return of mats would help more). The problem that I see with making it a class specific thing is that there might not be as much of an impact as it could have have if anyone could desynth. That said, I REALLY like the idea of a salvager as a class, especially if they had repair abilities like you mentioned. The question is what ELSE could they do that is worth while? Aside form being able to repair stuff, what do they actually craft? I'm not sure I can think of anything, to be honest, especially since items don't actually break in this game (Which is good, because OMFG, breaking fishing poles in 11 got expensive!).

Hmmm... If there were more clock-work or tech type stuff in the game, you could call them Tinkerer instead, and have them specialize in stuff like that (though it might infringe on GLD and ALC a little). Perhaps parts like pullies for compound bows. Clocks as furniture for moghouses (once we get them). Bits and bridles for chocobos? Flint lock / matchlock mechanisms for muskets. Locks for gauntlets and swords? Obviously anything for articulated tools; maybe parts for a loom for weaver off-hand alternative, or mill/press for cul. Just a couple things that come to mind.

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Showing support for these ideas. This would be a brilliant addition! Would love to see it. And even if something like this wasn't implemented, there needs to be something that removes equipment from being resold over and over and over.

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

The question is what ELSE could they do that is worth while?

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Yeah, I kinda ran out of steam after "they break stuff", but I feel this would be enough on its own to merit another class.

I see them as the garbage man. Every week you place your useless things at the curb and the trash man collects. Without that needed service, the streets would be flooded with everyones' junk. Such is the current market in FFXIV. We recycle too much and could use a "Salvager" type to rid the market of excess by desynthing. The universal repair would be motivation for everyone to rank the class up and create a need for items of all optimal ranks to be desynthed for SP. Rewarding base material makes sense, but I didn't want to step on the DoL toes.

But that's just one thought based off another, I'd be satisfied with any system that would help the market shed some unwanted items. Item exchange to companies or NPCs would probably be easier to implement.

I agree, also the repair ideas rock. Would love to run that up and have all my repair needs governed under 1 craft..., anything better than carrying around 15 different repair materials for everything.

Another idea is maybe tied in with companies or gaining levels on our linkshells, let us donate items and gear/weapons for experiance points to get those a higher level which opens up more things to do with them? Much like Runes of Magic..a game that failed on many things but their guild levelling system was pretty neat.

Few additions;
Desynthing makes sense to me.. but I again believe it should be class specific... weavers can desynth cloth, goldsmiths jewelery, etc. Again.. to keep things somewhat balanced. (I highly agree that the outcome of desynthing should be less than the input materials also :-) )

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Desynth makes me think of a new DoH class to be added:

Salvager
*Breaks down finished equipment
*Weilds a wrench MH, screwdriver OH
*Ignores class requirement when repairing gear
*Can attempt repairs 5 ranks sooner than other classes

Breaking down equipment would not give shards. If desynthing yielded basic mats that wouldn't help the bigger problem since items are not exiting the market. Only thing I can suggest would be that desynthing gives a new material called Salvage. There could be various types and rarities depending on the optimal rank and base components of the item being broken down. Just have to find a use for Salvage then (besides being a universal repair material).

Reminds me of Cid from FFIV ^^

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Salvager.... being able to repair any item would reduce the usefulness/uniqueness of every other class. I litterally ranked up classes that I can use to repair my gear... if I had the option for the salvager class to repair all... I would only rank up that one class and buy all my gear for cheap... I cant make gear for my rank as it is anyway lol

For the "Salvage" item idea... Just another Material to hold onto when there are already TONS in my bags lol... may as well just get lower grade mats of what was initially used.

Back to the OP... I like the idea, but like stated there are already SOOO many items in circulation atm... I would like to not only see a cap on max trade ins but also a cap for points for physical lvl/rank. That way a "newer" player cant just buy a ton of lvl 50 items for cheap and trade them all in for all their new skills haha..

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So more thoughts on uses for "points":
•As mentioned above - guild marks.
•Trade for Anima
•Trade for Guardian's Favor.
•Trade for "vouchers" (Chocobo Ride, Airship Ride, ...).
•Trade for special vanity gear?
•Trade to purchase rare materials.
•Trade for items used in some sort of Magian upgrade quests?
•Trade to Wardens in camps related to companies controlling areas. Maybe if your company controls the Camp it's cheaper to teleport there or something?

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Love the ideas!

Another idea I had back in the day was to allow "upgrading" of gear. Giving us more gear in the long run. Maybe being able to desynth 2 armors into one new one? upgrading your weapon to have elemental properties like the wands for conj. changing colors for gear and/or making sets by using the same mats for different pieces. Would be nice to see more "Set" items and more diversity.

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Originally Posted by RogueAgent

Few additions;

Another idea I had back in the day was to allow "upgrading" of gear. Giving us more gear in the long run. Maybe being able to desynth 2 armors into one new one? upgrading your weapon to have elemental properties like the wands for conj. changing colors for gear and/or making sets by using the same mats for different pieces. Would be nice to see more "Set" items and more diversity.

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This quote inspired an idea in my own little head, bringing together the idea of item breakage, problems with HQ, and generally cool idea of item upgrading.

What if items could be upgraded, but that the upgrading would decay over time, thus requiring periodic recharging?

For example, an enhancement recipe could upgrade a piece of gear to +2 or +3 (likely still bowing to the vagaries of the HQ gods), but every time such a piece of gear is repaired, there is a chance for the enhancement to decay by one. This provides for a level of item decay, without the gear actually breaking, but provides a mechanism for crafters and gathers to remain useful. Essentially this makes gear enhancement a "consumable item".

Further, in addition to the existing enhancements which only affect defensive stats, thus leading to the situation where HQ gear is useless for crafters and gatherers (with the exception of tools), further enhancement recipes to add to crafting / gathering stats could be introduced.

The above does not really address the imbalance between item supply / demand, and so an item sink is still required, but I think it could still be a workable idea to prevent the ever-increasing number of HQ items in the game.

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Originally Posted by RogueAgent

Few additions;

Salvager.... being able to repair any item would reduce the usefulness/uniqueness of every other class. I litterally ranked up classes that I can use to repair my gear... if I had the option for the salvager class to repair all... I would only rank up that one class and buy all my gear for cheap... I cant make gear for my rank as it is anyway lol

For the "Salvage" item idea... Just another Material to hold onto when there are already TONS in my bags lol... may as well just get lower grade mats of what was initially used.

Back to the OP... I like the idea, but like stated there are already SOOO many items in circulation atm... I would like to not only see a cap on max trade ins but also a cap for points for physical lvl/rank. That way a "newer" player cant just buy a ton of lvl 50 items for cheap and trade them all in for all their new skills haha..

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Perhaps one way to address this concept of a salvager class is to make the salvager less effective then the more specialized classes. Sort of a "jack of all trades, master of none" deal.

So, perhaps a salvager/mechanic could repair items to 90% instead of 100% (better than the NPC repair people, but not as good as the "correct" crafting class).

Regarding item de-synthing, a salvager could salvage any item, but would receive fewer materials on average than the "correct" class, but could perhaps be compensated by having a chance to receive rare materials that the correct class would not.

Just my $0.02.