4 Paired Threads: SCH - How do you feel about it?

Do you ____ it?
(love, like, neutral, dislike, hate)

What do you like about it?

What do you dislike about it?

What would you like changed about it?

EDIT:

WHM thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-feel-about-it

AST thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-feel-about-it

SGE thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-feel-about-it

It's an absolute hollow corpse of it's former self. It doesn't flow, it's had elements of it's job ripped out to provide 'filling' for another much akin to WHM back in the day and it still has multiple facets of it's kit that just won't play nice with each other. It's a complete mess.

Numerically it's great and it has some powerful abilities for sure, but man, what have they done to my boy.

That would be "Pity" for me.

It used to be my main. 5.x was horrid and 6 was going to be the same.
They still managed to kill a fairy and get the other to wear it's skin.

I still find scholar the most comfortable even in this reduced state.

Big numbers and being able to force big numbers (recitation, formerly raw intuition) feels good. I don’t necessarily like that galvanise and catalyse are separate, nor that the faerie has been reduced and reduced, but I can understand why the former has been done. Seraph still feels like it was scraping the barrel, and that no lessons were learnt from the issues with summoner and bahamut. I quite like the current excog, it also feels pretty strategic and like it rewards fight/tank awareness. Quickened aetherflow feels very absent and the fey gauge weirdly irrelevant.

Overall I’d be entirely comfortable calling it the easiest healer to get into, certainly at lower levels with the embrace safety net and probably even at higher ones. I’m unsure if this is a condemnation of encounter design or how well white mage fits into it. The reworked dungeons haven’t helped much on this favourable comparison. Maybe if white mage had a trait for instant cures based on dot ticks it would be something easier to recommend for newer players, but it’s a lot more common to see newer cnj/whm losing control. Maybe ast would be a good recommend at lower levels too, the essential dignity ogcd is good to have available - obviously the hw requirement counts against it though.

Here is the obligatory paragraph about the monotonous rotation made worse by ruin2’s devaluation with endwalker granting everyone ast cast times. Aetherflow is probably the most interesting healer resource tool because it interacts with the damage kit albeit in an increasingly minor way.

I think, as with all healers, its healing kit could do with having a serious examine and think about exactly what is just the same button by another name. At the same time I also want Selene back so it’s not terribly consistent of me there.

Ugly spells, Jank job, boring story, the worst imo out of the 4 healers, as go as far as to say ill play whm over it anyday, Overrated as heck like final fantasy 7, any healer can perform fine just like and its only a tiny bit stronger on things than the other 3 healers but really not that big imo. Oh and just like how sge was qoute copied from it, it was a copy job from arcanist/smn until sbh where it lost its summon type dps kit. Though I can say the book is fitting for it instead of smn, smn should have had whips or rods instead like rydia of ff4.

Its the pet healer with no pet management. Yay.

I have more to dislike about SCH than like at this point.

Selene is gone instead of giving it a new kit. Like AST you could have made changing fairies into a mechanic. You removed her instead.

Still no carbies that Alphinaud used. At least we can glam into them though. Finally.

You... got rid of Miasma and Bane and didn't give them back to SCH... You couldn't even turn Deployment Tactics INTO BANE like it does for PvP.

Why does the Fairy Gauge only work with one ability? Aether Pact works with several. RECITATION works with more abilities.

Speaking of gauges, combine the two. We know you can update the gauge after a certain leveling point, there's no reason for the FaeGauge to be separated from the Aether one.*

Remember how I said there's no pet management? You can't even control what your fairy decides to heal.*

*both of these things you fixed with SGE btw

I still enjoy it for the most part. I like the aesthetic and I like that there’s a pet that still does something. Although gameplay wise I think SCH needs some clean up.

- As I’ve said in a previous post I think the new Fairy Gauge should just be 5 stacks of Aetherflow, because there’s no reason to a whole separate gauge for a spell you only use every so often

- Physick should disappear, because why is it even still here?

- We should learn Broil as soon as SCH is unlocked, because there’s no reason we should being running around with Ruin at 150 potency and Ruin 2 at 140, which brings me to my next point..

- Ruin should upgrade to Ruin 2 and it should be an oGCD, so main will look like Broil > Ruin > Broil > Ruin etc

- Dissipation should be a 15% healing buff to the Fairy/Fairy Spells , and make Embace an AoE pulse that last 20 sec. Then at lvl 80 it should upgrade into Summon Seraph with a 20% healing buff lasts 25 sec

- Deployment Tactics should Spread Adloquiom and Lustrate. At lvl 74 it upgrades to Recitation where Adloquiom and Lustrate are free and crit. Excogitation is also free

- Fey Illumination should have its effect changed to provide a shield to the party, maybe something slightly weaker than Succor

- Whispering Dawn should get the added effect of increased healing potency received by party members by 5%

- Bio should be AoE (honestly all the Healer Dots should be if we don’t get spreaders)

- Scared Soil should keep the 10% mit, apply Miasma (100 potency maybe) to enemies in the bubble, and lose the regen

- Energy Drain should become a GCD and have 310 potency when Bio and Miasma on target (200 potency if only 1 DoT is on), it’ll have a 35 cooldown, it won’t use Aetherflow (It always be a bit stronger then Broil)

- Fey Blessing will use Aetherflow

- Aether Pact will use Aetherflow and last for 10 sec

I think these changes would be good, in my opinion at least

I still like SCH, despite all the gutting it received since HW. It remains the only healer where I'm allowed meaningful choices that have consequences down the line.

- Do I need Indom here or can I burn the Energy Drain?
- Do I need Seraph in 30s or is it safe to use Dissipation?
- Does the tank need Excog or are they fine with Fey Union?

I like the decision making aspect of SCH where every choice has a consequence and I greatly disagree with anyone that asks for Energy Drain to be decoupled from Aetherflow, if they want a job that has completely free usage of Soil and Indom, SGE is right there.

As for what I'd like changed, give the fairy gauge some other purpose. Fey Union has its uses and all, but it's very niche and generally not useful at all in most circumstances. Perhaps return Fey Blessing to the fairy gauge and turn it into an AoE pulse that consumes 10 gauge per tick that's centered on the fairy, that would at least add some other use to the fairy gauge and allows some other way to deal with raidwide bleeds.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Ugly spells, Jank job, boring story, the worst imo out of the 4 healers, as go as far as to say ill play whm over it anyday, Overrated as heck like final fantasy 7, any healer can perform fine just like and its only a tiny bit stronger on things than the other 3 healers but really not that big imo. Oh and just like how sge was qoute copied from it, it was a copy job from arcanist/smn until sbh where it lost its summon type dps kit. Though I can say the book is fitting for it instead of smn, smn should have had whips or rods instead like rydia of ff4.

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Show us on the doll where the SCH main hurt you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Show us on the doll where the SCH main hurt you

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Show us on the doll where the SGE main hurt you

Like:

Breadth of the kit. Pure/barrier split be damned, I feel like this job has an answer for it all.

Dislike:

The fairy is an oGCD, but over there :: points ::.

What I'd change:

I'd suggest drawing upon Chrono Trigger's Tech system.

Tryb2. Sch feels a bit ...empty. The Job feels like there should be something more. A bit bumned out we now have only one Fairy left too. I also still feels like I'm constantly 5 seconds late. I suppose some of these experiences are due to The fact Instarted playing during heavensward. Otherwise ok class with it's own identity.

Likes
I love the concept Scholar has of healing through buffs and preventing damage as opposed to more direct healing

Party support and utility through Stratagem, Expedient, Illumination etc

Shielding and defensive buffs

Versatile skills like Protraction

The aesthetic I guess? Lol

Dislikes

Concept no longer makes sense because you can lolrecitation your way through literally everything the game overs, making preventative measures and defensive buffs functionally redundant

None of the party support except Stratagem and debatably Expedient matters (nobody has ever thanked a Scholar for using Sacred Soil or Fey Illumination lol)

DPS is obviously super boring despite being like 90% of your casts. One DoT and it’s really just there so we have a DoT, not for any actual purpose.

Selene being deleted and losing buffs that we never got back (Fey Wind, RIP)

Dissipation. I have to dematerialise my fairy to get a healing boost… and it’s a dps tool?!

Shields are practically useless in almost every situation because we have so many super powered oGCDs

Neutral (lol)
I never really cared for having 3-4 DoTs to juggle or Summoner skills like Fester and Bane. Not that I dislike them, I’d just rather they had some kind of tactical usage beyond literally just ‘keep up 100% of the time every time’ lol

What I’d do differently:

Get the PvP guys to fix it it lol . Scholar in PvP is much more fun and I think it feels much more fitting for the kind of ‘Scholar’ they’re going for. Very limited healing but strong shields, buffs to manage (damage increase on Adloquium), debuffs to manage (damage dealt reduction on Biolysis, healing reduction on Mummification), strong party utility through Expedient and it relies heavily on Fairy for when it needs more powerful healing (i.e the mini-lb) lol.

Obviously I’ll be the first to admit that it all still falls into the same ‘keep up 100% of the time all the time’ trap as just making them plain old DoTs, but at least it’d feels like have an actual purpose in turning the tides of battle. That’s just, like, my opinion though. Lol

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Do you ____ it?
(love, like, neutral, dislike, hate)

What do you like about it?

What do you dislike about it?

What would you like changed about it?

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Loved it in Stormblood, dislike it now.

What do you like about it?
The idea behind it is really good, a pet healer. In theory should be a fun exercise of micromanagement. A lot of potential. It also has, in my opinion, the cutest aesthetic for its artifact armour. I don't know how I feel about the tonberry angle, but I do love Nym and the overall lore of what scholars represent. Also fairies!

What do you dislike about it?
Lack of cohesion in the gameplay, aesthetic, and theme. Aetherflow gauge feels outdated. Fairy gauge feels meaningless. Three capstone abilities are mutually-exclusive with each other. Energy Drain existing creates a toxic relationship with your party members making mistakes. Massive button bloat. Lack of imagination with the pet implementation. Design more than any healer is aligned to increase the amount of time you go before you do anything other than Broils. By the way, "Broil" is a horrible name for your main damage spell.

What would you like changed about it?
In Stormblood, it felt like a DPS Lite, as a sort of DoT mage, which I felt suited a job with with a strong barrier, fairy, and tools like Excog which kept people alive while you did a super-abridged rotation that would keep ticking even if you had to respond to a mistake. I don't think that has to be replicated, but I think Scholar needs more engagement during downtime; WHM already exists as the perfect candidate for more simplified damage rotations. I think SCH needs a single gauge that is good and fun and interesting. Stop trying to make SCH and SGE a reflection of each other; let them breathe. Lastly, some better cohesion in its design, both in gameplay and look. Nothing should be added without considering every other action the job has. Give it a massive face-lift while preserving the few things that make it iconic.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

By the way, "Broil" is a horrible name for your main damage spell

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Totally agree with this lol. It’s supposed to be a play on words, but if you need to explain a joke after it’s told is it really that funny lol. The spell’s visual effect for me feels fairly out of place too. Slinging fireballs is already Black Mage’s thing, but for some reason Scholars somehow get nothing but a new ‘sling fireball’ visual every expansion. They’ve tried to make it more ‘scholar-like’ with the sigils on Broil IV, but at the end of the day you’re still just throwing fireballs at the enemy like a discount Black Mage. At least Biolysis looks ok lol

White Mages have a holy light aesthetic for their dps, Astrologian has the space/star aesthetic, Sages get cool lasers and disco light-show punch combo (aka Phlegma lol).. Then Scholars are over here throwing sad little fireballs at the enemy whilst Black Mages manifest a small sun over their head lol. Scholar deserves a unique and flashy aesthetic just like everyone else gets

Since SCH was sort of the plague mage along with old SMN I thought of Broil as you're exciting the enemy's aether until they overheat or something which is pretty cool. I still want Meltdown as a big Scholar damage button.

Broil is cooking the enemy from the inside, it matches SCH when it was a DOT class but like everything else with SCH square is allergic to being reminded that old SCH existed

I actually enjoy SCH's muted aesthetics, I think the less flashy animations fits the lore of SCH as a backline tactician. I don't think every job needs to be flashy, trying to make every job flashy is how you get MCH heated shot animations with the spins and flips that a lot of people really hate.

I also like the muted aesthetics, but I also think the DPS spells could use... something. The techno aesthetic of Broil IV, Biolysis, and Art of War II feel out of place, and Ruin/Broil flinging tiny balls of ??? feels bland. The original Art of War and Bio spells are good, though.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I actually enjoy SCH's muted aesthetics, I think the less flashy animations fits the lore of SCH as a backline tactician. I don't think every job needs to be flashy, trying to make every job flashy is how you get MCH heated shot animations with the spins and flips that a lot of people really hate.

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People legit hated og MCH for not being flashy, complained, and thus it got crazy heated shots in StB. In general, job actions became way more flashy with StB, especially non-casters getting big fancy spell effects instead of just unique swing animations. Compare DRK Carve and Spit to Shadowbringer. Functionally the same action, drastic visual difference.

Ultimately I think this just affects the Job Actions trailers because more and more people just turn off other players spell effects as a result.

Seraph was their best attempt at making SCH flashy. At least it focused on one of their core job ideas, the pet. Fire another comparison in skills, just look at SCH and SGE. Largely the same actions designed with an ARR vs EW sensibility.

I think Art of War has always looked rubbish compared to Miasma 2, which basically did the same thing, especially in StB when it was buffed (and you couldn't cross class Blizzard 2 anymore).

I think Broil goes back to stuff like Leeches; SCH is kind of a "Doctrine of Humors" era medic. I also really like Broil IV's animation (more than its predecessors) since it makes me think of plasma weaponry from Halo or something:

Pistol: https://youtu.be/fLEVKa465cc?t=63
Rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4RXWo3C4
(Can't find video of it, but the red plasma turrets also sound like that, especially hearing the plasma hit rocks and stuff)

And, probably because of this association, I like Broil IV a lot since "plasma weaponry" sounds like something fitting of a military scholar-mage. I also like the sigils and glyphs. Ever since "Holy Light" in Chrono Cross when I played it like 20 years ago, I've loved spells with word/symbol components visually part of the spellcast. Both Broil IV (and Broil III) and Art of War II have these, and I love it. I hope they get more over time.

I think one of the things I like about SCH is how NON-flashy it is. It feels somehow more grounded. I also like when my shots streak at the enemy, so I like Broil (other than Broil 1 itself) far better than, say, Fall Malific (which I can't even see most of the time) or Glare III (since it's also easy to not see much of it depending on what else is happening on screen).

But this is absolutely a personal taste thing.