Is the skill level required on NA DCs higher than JP DCs?

Assuming the following premises
1. JP DCs have a higher clear rate of high end content of all active players than NA DCs
2. High end content is fundamentally a team based activity, where the skill level of other players other than yourself affects the outcome
3. Therefore, PF in each DC reflects the skill level of the DC

Then is it harder to clear high end content on NA datacenters than it is in JP datacenters?

If the answer is yes, then Are high end clears more rare in NA DCs?

and if the answer to that question is yes, then Are NA DC clears and PF clears more prestigious than JP DC clears?

I imagine the Japanese are more patient so they stick with the same group till they learn each other strengths and weaknesses while we are impatient and will shuffle members in and out of a static like MtG cards till we find the "I Win" deck.

And then a new raid starts and the "I Win" deck doesn't work...so back to shuffling cards in and out till the new "I Win" deck is formed.

I also don't raid or anything so I could be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY off base till the point my theory is stupid.

*shrug*

In JPN DC, PF is used to practice and perfect the raids, and usually people stay until the group decides to break by concensus. After learning, the DF is used to clear / it's expected that the strats and raid is known by players before they attempt a DF clear, as doing so without knowing is rude and also a bit disgraceful since DF is public. I play on both with a JPN and NA char, but since I'm JPN I find the JPN DC a lot more enjoyable and way less stressful than most anything in NA^^

Higher clear rate of all active players doesn't take into account how many of those players are actually trying to clear it. I don't raid, and I know a lot of people who don't either. What percentage of JP players raid compared to NA players? How have you corrected for this?

Also, in 1, you cite active players, and in 3, you cite PF. Which is it? Are you weighing clear percentages of all active players, or PF parties that clear? How does the latter account for players that don't use PF (statics, DF clears on JP)? How does either matter when you're comparing against each other?

Your analysis is flawed and you've shown zero data even assuming it wasn't. Garbage in, garbage out.

JP has a higher percentage of people who want to raid at a serious level. If your DC has more people who want to raid, you will in turn have more people who actually do raid. And obviously if you have more people raiding, there will be more people clearing said raids.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

Higher clear rate of all active players doesn't take into account how many of those players are actually trying to clear it. I don't raid, and I know a lot of people who don't either. What percentage of JP players raid compared to NA players? How have you corrected for this?

Also, in 1, you cite active players, and in 3, you cite PF. Which is it? Are you weighing clear percentages of all active players, or PF parties that clear? How does the latter account for players that don't use PF (statics, DF clears on JP)? How does either matter when you're comparing against each other?

Your analysis is flawed and you've shown zero data even assuming it wasn't. Garbage in, garbage out.

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I'm using luckybancho numbers
what is luckybancho using to compare clear rates in NA and JP and claiming JP has higher clear rates?

JP, they ere more determined, NA seem more like not being able to find out what strategy to use and then watching Mr. Happy Videos or whatever persons... and then call it whatever person/group strategy... instead of playing the game.

I believe PF is used the most for practise and then head onto DF.

I think the west is more scared about or think themself to elite to spend the time it takes to get the clears and ditch whatever that is doign 10DPS off or whatever even if well witing the DPS requirement, the content is not so hard as most people claim it to be, and often if you are stuck with the same people all the time doing it, you get extremely little additional experience in completing the content.

It would be like in real life... routines will eventually kill you off for good, you need diversity to get better at what you do.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

I'm using luckybancho numbers
what is luckybancho using to compare clear rates in NA and JP and claiming JP has higher clear rates?

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Lucky Bancho gets the data for the percentage of level 90 characters that have the achievement for the clear.

He has no way to gather data on how many level 90 characters overall have attempted to clear. The game doesn't track who tried and failed, or who didn't try at all. All that can be seen is who succeeded.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

well, whatever problem people have with my premise is a problem they have with luckybancho's data gathering methodology
the fact remains that LB is always used as the source to claim that JP DC clears are much higher percentage wise than NA clears, and thus that makes the skill level on average higher

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I'm not certain what you're attempting to accomplish with your post. Wanting a reason to give yourself a little extra flex? You can take numbers and twist them to support just about anything you want. Very few will care either way so go for it if you want.

Personally, i think that clear rate has less to do with skill than it has to do with determination. People talk about parses a lot but forget that even the 50% percentile players are getting clears. So if you want to say that JP players are more determined to get clears then NA players, I'd believe it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Lucky Bancho gets the data for the percentage of level 90 characters that have the achievement for the clear.

He has no way to gather data on how many level 90 characters overall have attempted to clear. The game doesn't track who tried and failed, or who didn't try at all. All that can be seen is who succeeded.

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well, whatever problem people have with my premise is a problem they have with luckybancho's data gathering methodology
the fact remains that LB is always used as the source to claim that JP DC clears are much higher percentage wise than NA clears, and thus that makes the skill level on average higher

If I understand OP correctly, the premise is that the average skill of players in NA is lower, so if you actually manage to clear high end content, you tend to be pulling more weight with you, whereas in JP, since the average skill level is higher, players don't need to be as good to clear content since they can rely on other players to carry more of that load?

Is that the general idea?

That is, if everyone's a 7 out of 10, you can be a 6 and reliably clear (JP), whereas if everyone's a 4, you need to be a 9 or 10 to drag them across the finish line (NA)?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

That is, if everyone's a 7 out of 10, you can be a 6 and reliably clear (JP), whereas if everyone's a 4, you need to be a 9 or 10 to drag them across the finish line (NA)?

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Completely depends on the job. On something like DRG you pretty much can't do anything other than doing a lot of damage. In which case carrying JP DF is actually more impressive because they suck at doing damage compared to NA PF, often using incredibly horrible downtime strats (which the devs have slowly neutered by making hitboxes big and uptime strats easy to achieve, however).

On something like SCH, it's probably more impressive to carry NA because people suck at mechanics generally.

Ultimately the difference is so minor it doesn't really matter.

I mean it's not like Japan has an isolated amount of people around their server while NA has a bunch of people from everywhere even amongst itself in NA, the performance of someone from the east coast for example will differ heavily against someone from the west due to: ping, desync, and snapshotting....oh wait.

But being less sarcastic, this would probably be the reason a lot of people don't attempt higher content in NA or at least one of them and if they do it results in a much higher disparity. Would love to see an east coast server but that seems unlikely.

For reference, where I live I have the same or near equal ping to the UK server in comparison to my home server (NA server) which is outrageous tbh. The reason being that the distance is near identical away in both directions, so it doesn't matter which I play on because I'd be getting near equal quality. I.e it really doesn't matter it's either you take your 3,000 mi away from the server one way or your 3,000 mi the other way. Yes routing is a thing that is factored in but the difference is very little in terms of performance for me. As some have mentioned texas being a centralized solution wouldn't even be that great given that's not even truly centralized from me ~2200 mi give or take. In fact, in Maine it might even be beneficial to play on the UK server because it's closer in terms of physical distance, ironically enough (we truly need dedicated east coast servers)

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I imagine the Japanese are more patient so they stick with the same group till they learn each other strengths and weaknesses while we are impatient and will shuffle members in and out of a static like MtG cards till we find the "I Win" deck.

And then a new raid starts and the "I Win" deck doesn't work...so back to shuffling cards in and out till the new "I Win" deck is formed.

I also don't raid or anything so I could be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY off base till the point my theory is stupid.

*shrug*

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this kinds of sums it. they internalize a lot of negative stuff and keep inside vs what people would say on NA servers to each othe.tJPN server parties usually stick with the group even after multiple wipes until they all agree it time to call it a night even super slow progress is progress still which is even true in PF groups. NA its kind of the opposite experience honestly and it sucks most time.

The final conclusion doesn't follow the first two unless you believe that rarity is intrinsically a virtue regardless of context, which is a perilous leap of logic to take.

It makes me think of the guys who pay $10k over MSRP for a car and then insist that's the true value - but what you pay for something is actually completely detached from the underlying value of that asset. The true value is completely dependent on the sentiment of the market - and that sentiment does not and will not care that you, specifically, spent more.

A clear of a piece of content may or may not be prestigious, but it is not universally more prestigious just because it was done in a place where it was less common - any single group of 8 isn't going to have any significant bearing on overall clear rates, and difficulty in organizing doesn't really reflect on difficulty of content at all, nor imply anything about the skill at play. At best it might be more prestigious in that locality, in the same way that flashing a $20 is more prestigious in a kindergarten than at the country club.

The trick with the idea of a clear being prestigious because 'you need to be a 9-10 to drag a bunch of 4s across the finish line' is that having the clear doesn't necessarily mean you're the 9-10... you might just be one of the the lucky 4s who was in the right place at the right time.

And while it would be vaguely amusing to see someone deliberately set up a group to play on a dead server halfway across the world for maximum latency and maximum difficulty in organizing.. somehow I don't see that taking root as a mark of true raiding prestige.

Then is it harder to clear high end content on NA datacenters than it is in JP datacenters?

It is harder in PF to clear in NA then JP. That is more so due to NA's lack of communication, organization, and teamwork rather than overall skill imo. People don't read pf descriptions, argue about strats, try out classes they've rarely played in lesser content, etc. etc. JP more frequently reads PFs and goes off a macro displayed in the party chat. You are in that PF, you do that strat...end of story (just pull). Also, loot is more easily distributed in JP because of the honor system they use in PF making a wider range of players access higher damage potential in later turns.


If the answer is yes, then Are high end clears more rare in NA DCs?

Well according to the numbers you presented, yes lmao.


and if the answer to that question is yes, then Are NA DC clears and PF clears more prestigious than JP DC clears?

No. Again it is more so due to lack of organization then skill. The PF mess in NA will just make you take longer to clear. Its a time sink.