New Job Role - Magical Melee DPS?

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.


maybe this a weird take?

Ninja is a magical melee DPS

/thread



Also, we have more than enough Sword jobs.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.


maybe this a weird take?

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No, not a weird take.

However, this is very funny because there's no way CBU3 can balance this. They'll simply release a safe, homogenized DPS job.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Ninja is a magical melee DPS

/thread



Also, we have more than enough Sword jobs.

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That is wrong. Like totally wrong. As wrong as you can be.

What OP is asking for is a pure magic melee job. Not a hybrid job. Like machinist is a ranged job but uses only physical attacks and blackmage is also a ranged job and uses only magical attacks.

So it wouldn't be too far fetched to have a melee job that only uses magical attacks, which doesn't mean that it has to be casting. Just the aesthetics and damage type.

That said i am all for it, it's something that would be new and is still missing. Really neat idea!

But they would need to have a different weapon from existing jobs. What would it be?

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

So idk, I was thinking about the jobs today with Physical & Magical Ranged DPS.

and I thought "well couldn't Melee DPS have this kind of split too?"

Magical Melee DPS would be things like Mystic Knight, Nightblade, and Sword Saint.

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If the only thing that is changing is that their damage gets a purple staff icon to its left instead of a blue sword... you won't have 'split' anything.

Moreover, melee itself is already split three ways between Maiming, Striking, and Scouting, and they can't even figure out what they want from those divisions (except, apparently, to uniquely waste Melees' time and gearing opportunities by granting them 33-67% the job choices per Armor class of what non-Melee DPS have access to).

Or, to put it another way... you could have a "Magical Melee," but in effect it'll... just be another melee.

If it were to lack cast times, it'd feel even less "magMelee" (caster-like) than Samurai does. Or, give it substantial casts and cast times enough to be distinct from Samurai, and you'll then have to reconcile that with the uptime and movement requirements of being melee.

Either way, at the end of the day, you're only going to get a decent job out of its particular theme excusing fun gameplay and an attractive aesthetic -- there's no uniquely absent typal niche dying to be filled here, since players' magic damage and physical damage are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If the only thing that is changing is that their damage gets a purple staff icon to its left instead of a blue sword... you won't have 'split' anything.

Moreover, melee itself is already split three ways between Maiming, Striking, and Scouting, and they can't even figure out what they want from those divisions (except, apparently, to uniquely waste Melees' time and gearing opportunities by granting them 33-67% the job choices per Armor class of what non-Melee DPS have access to).

Or, to put it another way... you could have a "Magical Melee," but in effect it'll... just be another melee.

If it were to lack cast times, it'd feel even less "magMelee" (caster-like) than Samurai does. Or, give it substantial casts and cast times enough to be distinct from Samurai, and you'll then have to reconcile that with the uptime and movement requirements of being melee.

Either way, at the end of the day, you're only going to get a decent job out of its particular theme excusing fun gameplay and an attractive aesthetic -- there's no uniquely absent typal niche dying to be filled here, since players' magic damage and physical damage are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

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Maybe make the magic melee then into a mostly caster, like for example samurai already has to cast his finishers. That would be a difference. Or SE could finally try again to make a dot heavy job.

But it is a better idea than just sticking with the old system anyways, or not? I mean if we get next expansion anyways again one or two jobs in the same old style they can at least give them a bit of a different taste even if it's just a purple icon instead of a blue one.

Still better than nothing. Expectations are already low, i get that. We don't have to put them rock bottom tho.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

But it is a better idea than just sticking with the old system anyways, or not? I mean if we get next expansion anyways again one or two jobs in the same old style they can at least give them a bit of a different taste even if it's just a purple icon instead of a blue one.

Still better than nothing. Expectations are already low, i get that. We don't have to put them rock bottom tho.

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This has nothing to do with lowering expectations. Trying to excuse a job design off a half-hearted, irrelevant distinction like whether the damage is written in blue or purple would be a far lower expectation still.

Melee dps dealing predominantly physical damage is not a "style" of gameplay. It's a random on-paper detail that at best can be fit to the applying skills' animations. At worst, it doesn't, and sends some head-canoner into a deranged spiral... still none of which would have any impact on how the game plays. The distinction is that irrelevant.

And, sure, you CAN give a new job the mobility limitations of BLM despite also giving it the range limitations of a melee. But... why? The illogic / thematic dissonance of it would be punching you in the face as often as every enemy in PvP. As such, a more mild approach is probably the more appropriate --something more in the form of your mail-armored "Battle Mage"-- and we've already had up to 4-second-long casts (or, continuous lockouts from movement) on a melee in the form of old TCJ, so... that's going to be particularly novel on the basis of type.

Instead, like any other job, it's just going to have to be mechanically and aesthetically interesting, regardless. The fact that it has a bit more magic isn't, itself, going to be a significant advantage.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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It's kinda hilarious how you argue about something that has no real impact anyways. Like what would be the big problem behind it? Would it destroy your immersion when you see all of the sudden a purple icon instead of a blue one?

Or to make it easier to understand for you, what would be the big difference to you personally? Does it matter to you if you get another melee job which well is the same as all the other melee jobs or a melee job which is the same just with a different flavor.

In the end we will get a new job, this job will have to fulfill the jobs description. Tank, DD, Healer. This will always stay the same. So please tell me where exactly the problem for you is when people, just imagine, a different look for a job? Not mechanics, that is SE job. They will have to create that we have no influence in their job designs. But what exactly and specifically is your problem with people wishing for a specific look in a new job?

I kinda get some "i am against this to be against this!!!" vibe. Like you argue over something what was never even the topic of the thread.

On a more constructive note... Here are some random job ideas that would likely happen to have more casts than existing melee:

Adept (Scouting or Striking) - Wielding a long, lean martial staff, the Adept is a versatile, highly agile, and variably supportive front-line fighter. Its spells cast unlock and/or augment its available weaponskills and abilities, with its Mana spent leaving a portion resonating within them of that element (colored on the MP bar). The Adept has, directly or indirectly, access to all six elements, with certain combinations of elements able to source or augment others (Fire on a central target spreading Wind damage outward, etc.) and some skills able to combine one element's means of conveyance (e.g., an Earthen Spike) with another's effect (Lightning's Polarity, for instance, to form a Galvanic Spike). Operating on up to 20% increased Attack Speed depending on use of Wind (and different but similarly direct means of APM increase within Water and Lightning), the Adept is not likely to be one of the easier jobs, be that in terms of reflexes or decision-making.

Wildblood (Scouting or Casting) - Though technically wielding a regalia --subsumed (rather painfully) into the dominant hand and reshaping its arm-- the primary weapon of the Wildblood is claws and... blood. As Hemomancers, the Wildblood are a particularly nasty breed of versatile saboteur, capable of stealing away attributes from enemies for their own use, and increasingly wielding their own and their enemies stolen lifeforce against their foes. They are particularly hardy through their ability to trade blood for mana and vice versa, though damage can in turn suppress their offensive capability. Able to damn near tank when stealing life-force from a sufficient number of mobs, and to heal the majority of the party's damage intake when commanding the enemy's attention, the Wildblood's role in practice can be a bit... flexible, though its highest contribution to raid throughput usually follows from an offensive role with timely suppression.

Warden (Maiming or Striking) - Sort of a cross between a Paladin and an acme-Witcher, the Wardens carrying long maces (or, long macil -- straight, in this case two-handed clubs with up to a 1/3rd meter section of spiked steel plating over the end) and use a spend a fair portion of their time in casting Holy, Soul, and Balance magics, especially self-buffs (each formed from and named after a Sigil). Charged with both keeping monsters out of villages, and the combating of a plague within their cities that would leave their quickly aggressive victims particularly hardy against all but blunt weapons and Holy and Soul magics, Wardens are simultaneously heavy hitters and methodical coordinators that are individually sturdy and collectively even sturdier. A portion of their casts can act as shields, reducing incoming damage by a flat amount, such that these casts aren't inherently a weakness. The Warden's self-buffs can be used on others for external utility, though such usually lacks synergy compared to self-casting, as each recipient may only carry one Sigil from each benefactor but Wardens are free to cast as many Sigils on themselves as they are able to balance (between exploiting them while active and granting further synergies from carrying multiple at a time). (Because this restriction does not apply to Wardens, beware of All-Warden strike gangs in Frontlines.)

Úlfheðinn (Striking or Scouting) - Dual-axe wielding warrior-shamans that steal away your Beastmaster from the horrors of being reduced to a limited job. Switching between fast and brutal attackers and more cunning ones, they rotate between the imbued or invoked (summoned) spirit of the Wolf (allows, among other things, for dash-strikes and freer and longer combos), Bear (allows for further defensives and strong gauge spenders), or Hawk (allows for weapon-throwing and rapid mobility). While they can cast very little, optimal play tends to weave in a few rituals to capitalize on high-damage periods or replenish MP again for another burst. These rituals may restrict movement to a small area (as per Ley Lines) or directly (as per any other normal cast).

Shifter (Scouting) - So... distinctly not a Morpher, if that's what you were expecting. No, the Shifter, is a user of sentient scarves/cloaks (called their "Shroud") -- almost akin to a Dancer in aesthetic, or something out of Journey -- with a very unique means of 'casting'. If it were said to have any (meta-)elements, they would be of Weave, Sand, and maybe Skies. In role, they are extremely flexible, and tend to dabble in both healing and tanking in premade light-party or 1|6|1 content. (In an ideal world, they could outright sign up for any role for most content.) Shifters are technically melee, but in a sense occasionally like that of a puppeteer: The Shifter actually carries multiple player positions that it can use to its advantage (though for which it is never penalized, such as by having a higher chance of being hit by AoEs) --the original player position, the midpoint of the Shroud, and the edge of the Shroud-- and may at times 'snap' or "Shift" to a safe space among them. Thus a Shifter may at times act from up to 15 meters out, puppeteering from range without penalty to part of its kit, in order to simultaneously support allies elsewhere. This Shroud may be redoubled around the Shifter herself, granting aspects, settle around an ally to benefit and allow strikes around them, smother enemies, be positioned as per a pet, or move in the Shifter's place (the Shifter herself remaining stationary while her movement controls puppet the dash-strike-capable Shroud, with whom she can then swap places). The Shifter's CDs allows for the Shroud to be duplicated, too, creating positionable clones, or to slip into the Weave itself, targeting aspects of the chosen enemy and ally to sever (by attacking these aspects) or fortify.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Or to make it easier to understand for you, what would be the big difference to you personally? Does it matter to you if you get another melee job which well is the same as all the other melee jobs or a melee job which is the same just with a different flavor.

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No, I'm just tired of seeing threads that amount to "If only we had a job that did this {1 irrelevant gimmick}, it'd be super cool and unique!"

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a different look for a job

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See the examples given in OP? Those aren't different, in appearance or otherwise. That's my point. Their merely having magic... doesn't make an interesting job. Though... they also, well, don't, for those particular examples. Or, less than any existing melee except for Warrior.

A Mystic Knight has historically had, on average, a far lesser portion of magic damage than an XIV DRK. It is also a theme that was already scavenged into XIV's DRK.

A Nightblade is a Dragoon but with a sword, with some of its Jump capacity traded out for break (Armor, Weapon, Helm, etc.) skills. It's also entirely physical (outside of perhaps "Rend Magic" and "Rend MP", which are both just... physical slashes, by appearance.)

Sword Saint is three jobs in one, stealing Dark Knight, Holy Knight, and Divine Knight's skills. But, having thus muddled its identity... it's still just... a generic greatsword user. Heck, it has far fewer casts than Paladin and far less magic use than XIV DRK.

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Its longest list of skills: Stasis Sword (just deals Physical Damage), Split Punch (Physical Damage + Doom), Northswain's Strike (Physical Damage), Lightning Stab (Physical Damage + Silences), Divine Ruination (Confuse + damage based on Physical Attack), Crush Armor (Breaks Armor + damage based on Physical Attack), Crush Helm (basically same), Crush Weapon (Disarm + Physical Damage), Duskblade (Syphon Strike), Shadowblade (Souleater).

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Which is why I return to that feeling of... "Okay... I'm still waiting for the actual idea. Because this gives us as little to work with as 'the job's name should start with B', because we don't have any that start of those. Wouldn't that be cool, guys?"

As you said, it's never going to be a sub-role, so... where's the actual difference? We'd need more to work with.

And again... All melee except for Warrior already visually use magic. Even without its Ninjutsu, NIN for instance is Wind and Shadow; MNK is Fire (see TFC), Earth (see Howling Fist), and Wind (Tornado Kick); and SAM is ice-blasting people with Yukikaze between its Moon and Wind attacks and whatever the heck Cherry Blossoms Bombs are supposed to be (see also DRG); etc., etc. With those visuals already there, and the coding identical, the actual work still fully remains to be done.

You've seen my two cents. I still have yet to see yours.

I feel Samurai is near magical if we're going off of some general mechanic (casting?). If we're going off visuals then.. I don't see how we were restricted outside of what SE wants to do.

Just to toss ideas into the pool, and two I've thrown before for melee magic:

Geo-Knight / Grav-Knight: Two handed bludgeon weapons like maces, clubs, etc. One thought was a bell / musical instrument designed into them, that could be part of the thematic mechanic (raising huge mace up and ringing it, and then bashing in the enemy skull with massive tectonic plates erupting or gravity effects). Use the BRD/MCH mechanic for casting and moving (PvP), add some area awareness effects.. like perhaps constructing elemental fonts/nodes and magical positional magic (melee to mid range). If geo we're looking at the classic elements, if gravity we're looking at if AST was a big DD boi. AF armor would be Ex-Death / Golbez like. Maybe another dragoon armor I guess.

'Dominant' transformation job (scouting armor), thematically I was originally going with demons, but we have reaper now so I'd say maybe FFXVI meetings Terra Branford meets Zodiac like themes: Weapon I thought should be apparel that could appear throughout transformations, like a sash, cloak, scarf, where in complete form or visual inspirations your 'weapon' impacts the visuals of the other forms. An easy example is picture a Dullahan like mode (giant armor'd knight), now add your cloak onto it, then shift into a Sif like wolf, add the cloak (this 'weapon' could be applied to multiple situations and different locations). Could even make them have a second hand (like Paladin) that is essentially used to further adding form customization (colors, perhaps sfx like if it's fire infused or etc). Some system that encourages both enjoying a particular form but also not setting up camp forever, and ensuring each form feels different enough that it isn't "can of paint 1, 2, and 3" (had another thread on ideas that might do that). Noting I want to 'transform', reaper bleach mode is cool but I don't consider that transforming. If it looks vaguely you still that's not transforming! /table lol

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I feel Samurai is near magical if we're going off of some general mechanic (casting?). If we're going off visuals then.. I don't see how we were restricted outside of what SE wants to do.

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I mean, visuals-wise... SAM is throwing out Lunar/Time, Wind, and Ice magic left and right.

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Dominant... I thought should be apparel that could appear throughout transformations, like a sash, cloak, scarf, where in complete form or visual inspirations your 'weapon' impacts the visuals of the other forms.

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I like.

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If it looks vaguely you still that's not transforming! /table lol

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/Disagree. Still you, but a different aspect emphasized of you, is best transformation. (100% subjectively correct opinion.)

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Geo-Knight / Grav-Knight

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I dig it. I'm thinking Grav more than Geo, but both seem fun.

[Off-Topic] Oh, btw, Shougun, another thread you might be interested in: Let's Design a "Living World" Zone for 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I mean, visuals-wise... SAM is throwing out Lunar/Time, Wind, and Ice magic left and right.

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Right..? Looks pretty magical to me. The other ones we could argue vaguely too, but Samurai has both a casting bar and magic effects. Give it a staff and we'd call it a battlemage lol. The enforced distinction, visually, between the roles seems to be very little.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I like.

/Disagree. Still you, but a different aspect emphasized of you, is best transformation. (100% subjectively correct opinion.)

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I mean, it's cool. Dragon Ball Z is cool.. but I want to actually transform, as a primary mechanic, man.. let.. me.. change! lol. Have a real love for Harmonixer from Shadow Hearts (PS2) games. Naturally going full Ifrit in FFXVI is cool, though clearly not a primary mechanic. The other thing is very cool too, but for FFXIV we have lots of super sayian modes but no real transformations.. I'd like at least one 'transformation' job. I know some people don't like you can't customize them, hence I had thought of a weapon that can pass through into other forms.

I'm not going to say Sayian modes are not cool, but I do want to actually go even further beyond... at least as a thing for one job.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I dig it. I'm thinking Grav more than Geo, but both seem fun.

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I started to think gravity damage would be more exciting, as it would definitely be 'new' imagery. Over say the few elemental damage effects we already have in the damage dealing space. Not that I'd be opposed to some proper Flood, Quake, and Tornado ancient magic ;)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

[Off-Topic] Oh, btw, Shougun, another thread you might be interested in: Let's Design a "Living World" Zone for 7.0.

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I haven't forgotten! As much as it's just one new game after the next lol. Actually a decent year for gaming :3. But I'm reading that thread now.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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I totally get that but us players have anyways little hand in how SE makes their jobs in the end so all we can do is anyways just kinda bring out some gimmicky ideas. Nobody will write a 3 page detailed essay about a new job just to see SE ignore it as usual.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I totally get that but us players have anyways little hand in how SE makes their jobs in the end so all we can do is anyways just kinda bring out some gimmicky ideas. Nobody will write a 3 page detailed essay about a new job just to see SE ignore it as usual.

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Have you not met Shurrikhan, or heck me? "Do you not know who I am!?" lol

There are not very many of us, but you're talking to one who has blasted a wall of game ideas / design feedback / suggestions, another one is responding to you now XD. *Complete designs documents would be a lot longer than 3 pages... lol


Also not guaranteed but before SGE I had posted a healer that healed allies by damaging enemies, prior to that posted pylons as a gimmick weapon. Prior to RPR people were telling others "can't have a dark job" so I went on a rant about void and soul magic, though that did happen to be closer to release (~8 months).. but I did also call it out as Reaper fairly early on. Many years ago I went on 10k post about node based housing replacement idea and the steps of releasing it and upgrading it as possible into housing alternative.. A lot of examples actually, either I have a decent ability to guess due to post count / sense, or is a reason why I strongly believe they take feedback (and of course make it their own).

You mean like this?

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

All these FFXI job topics got me thinking...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...EAM_LINEUP.png

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Be warned: this was a semi-joke. Magic Melee sounds cool, but they definitely haven't hinted at adding those other jobs.

There was a topic a while back discussing what roles the 7.0 job(s) would fill. It was reasonable to assume it would be 1 or 2 DPS jobs, particularly physical/magical ranged to even the gap, especially with how uniform the tanks and healers are now, but the argument made for melee DPS was that it would create an even 6/6 split. If they added a melee and split them in half, you'd have four DPS categories with three jobs each. Since the raid format already uses two melees, it seems thematically appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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Don't get me wrong, i would be thrilled if SE would pay any attention to people who put so much work into feedback and ideas.

Sadly most times i figure the language barrier stands in the way, the devs are known for not being really great with english so they would need to hear most stuff from someone who can speak both languages. Which should be mostly only the translators like Koji Fox. Not here to bash the devs, but we all heard Yoshi P. speak "english" and mentioning that he isn't really good at it. xD

Anyhow props to you and Shurrikhan for putting so much effort into it, if it is fun for you then there is nothing wrong with it! All power to you fellas!

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I totally get that but us players have anyways little hand in how SE makes their jobs in the end so all we can do is anyways just kinda bring out some gimmicky ideas. Nobody will write a 3 page detailed essay about a new job just to see SE ignore it as usual.

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There have probably been at least a dozen I've seen since EW launched (though I didn't have an active account or forum permissions during the time I saw many of those, and I sadly failed to bookmark them). Most had gotten pretty thorough feedback from at least a couple posters. Yes, there are (others) this nerdy.

Granted, the expectation is normally just that players will read it, and some few slivers of the hash-out will produce understandings useful in creating examples that would give warrants for certain ideas that would in turn push the community towards a place where their future critiques will be less easily misconstrued by the developers (such as for an excuse in order to toss out another least-effort take).

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

You mean like this?

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Hmm, yeah, that'd about do it. Very nice.

I still don't really see the point in classifying physical and magical separately if it doesn't really say anything about how the particular job plays (RPR playing more like a DRG than a NIN, RDM, or RFC, etc.), but... if that were to replace the Maiming/Striking/Scouting nonsense distinction among Melee and Casters continue to have their casting pruned away anyways, I wouldn't be opposed to that assortment, even as arbitrary as it might seem by then.

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It was reasonable to assume it would be 1 or 2 DPS jobs, particularly physical/magical ranged to even the gap, especially with how uniform the tanks and healers are now, but the argument made for melee DPS was that it would create an even 6/6 split. If they added a melee and split them in half, you'd have four DPS categories with three jobs each. Since the raid format already uses two melees, it seems thematically appropriate.

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Aye. 1 more Scouting would make a ton of sense. 2 Maiming, 2 Striking, 2 Scouting for 6 Melee DPS, opposite 3 Aiming and 3 Casting for 6 Ranged DPS.

Sadly, Melee is used to being hit with the double-standard when it comes to (sub)role classifications, so somehow despite 1.x (largely pre-roles) launching with 4 melee (GLD, MRD, PGL, LNC) and 3 ranged (BRD, CNJ, THM) and ARR having been meant to launch with 3 melee DPS (NIN, meant to mirror SMN, delayed) and 3 ranged DPS (ACN being both the replacement for the healer that Yoshida removed in 1.x in changing THM from a Vampiric Support to a pure DPS and, as a bonus, another DPS). Le sigh.

FF has had the Mystic Knight job/class.

Who are effectively a physical class that use magic to power up their attacks and add elements to it.

So it's not an impossibility to get such a class...

Half of Ninja's kit is magic damage and you can think of Mudras as a roundabout way to "cast" with also letting you move about. Samurai also has "casts". You can't really make a melee job that has too many hard casts because many melee mechanics require a ton of movement. Samurai had 2s hard casts in SB and now they're 1.5s casts because 2s was too punishing.

Holy Knight's "Sword Skills" from FFT are reflected in PLD's skill set 80+ with Confeitor combo which has various aetherial swords raining down, not to mention Requiescat which is literally Hallowed Bolt/Lightning Stab.

Red Mage has the Mystic Knight archetype rolled in with its spellblade combo
Ninja has the Thief archetype rolled in with Mug
Warrior has the Berserker archetype rolled in with Berserk
Paladin has the Sword Saint/Divine Knight/Holy Knight archetype rolled in with Requiescat (Hallowed Bolt) and Divine Knight's various "crush" skills (Confiteor Combo)

Because of the above, we don't have room for Mystic Knight, Thief, Berserker, or Sword Saint jobs.

Moreover, we have enough swords:

Gunblade
Sword
Great Sword
Short Sword (many "Rogue Arms" are shortswords and gladiuses and not only knives and daggers)
Katana
Rapier

Enough sword jobs.

For magical range DPS they could have a Gambler that's uses scouting gear and weapon used is cards. For Magical physical DPS I would like to see Beast Tamer that uses whips for a weapon and maiming gear.

I'm leveling one of those: Red Mage.

If anyone has played Tales of Graces and used Pascal that's what I want from a caster. Long range basic attacks but all magic is cast close range. Every other game I play with a caster reverses this so it was really nice to see a game that done it this way.

I don't want new jobs if they're just going to be carbon copies of existing ones. Make the existing ones more distinct first >.>

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

FF has had the Mystic Knight job/class.

Who are effectively a physical class that use magic to power up their attacks and add elements to it.

So it's not an impossibility to get such a class...

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That is why I mentioned Mystic Knight:

Fire Sword - Grants Damage Buff to self, Perform Fire Strikes, ends with a circle fire aoe around the player character.
Earth Sword - Grants self defense buff and those within range, it will act like the ye olde Stoneskin magic spell that White Mages lost.
Water Sword - Grants self Water Strikes, ends with a line AOE that sends water damage toward group of enemies (somewhat similar to certain Blue Mage Spells)
Wind Sword - Grants self increased speed movement, and can send separate wind projectiles from afar toward a selected enemy
Umbral Sword - Each Strike Drains HP from the enemy (similar to Bloodlust, but slightly better)
Lightning Sword - Speeds up rotation of attacks while doing electrical Strikes, and ends with a lightning strike you can do from afar, could be great for mechanic strats.
Ice Sword - Grants self to use Ice Strikes to slow down enemies, and ends with line aoes projecting out in card and intercard directions.

Astral Sword it's ultimate move is granted after using every other Element that can do high single magical damage

Well that just my interpretation anyway.


Theoretically what Sam said that Red Mage is kind of like a Magical Melee though now I think about it.