Positivity!

I see a lot of negativity on this forum for some reason. I do not understand it outside that "people come to the forums to vent and complain". I don't see how people think Endwalker is bad, let alone the story or gameplay. I don't understand how the class mechanics are "2 min meta" / "bland, boring, and the same". As someone who came from WoW for 16 years, this game is superior in pretty much every way.

I am trying to max all my jobs to 90, i'm so close! But doing all the roulettes every day, from beast tribe dailies, to the stadium crafting questlines, the fate farming, housing / decor, from the raiding content there is just so much to do. I can game for like 10 hours a day and barely have enough time to do everything i want in the first half of every week. Let alone even play other games to mitigate burn out. I still have achievements to hunt, mounts / collectibles to collect, relics i haven't even started. Sometimes I just feel like i'm drowning in content and it is glorious!

So anyways the only way I can think people aren't having fun or think there is nothing to do is because they have limited themselves in what they do inside the game. Maybe they are exclusively raiders and ignore the 80% of the other stuff in the game. But as someone who wants to do everything even the pvp I honestly think it will be impossible to collect al the collectibles, the achievements, and achieve everything the game has to offer.

ah, just what this forum needed, toxic positivity

"look at me guys i'm right there is so much to do in the game and you all are wrong you negative nancies you didnt even do the achievement that requires you to fish 10000 fishes !!!"

So an echo chamber is what you desire? Feeling angry and disgruntled with the game you claim to love and have voices justify your feelings? You know from what i've read on the first 2 pages no one is offering feed back? What will make the story better, what will make the game better? Do you have to kill off important scion characters like Y'sthola for the story to have impact? Do raids need increased difficulty, more mechanics? Are you wanting your raiding expereince to be like a dark souls game? Are the rewards not good enough for your time? Even though games are meant for you to have fun and enjoy yourself in? But please, insult me instead of trying to fix anything.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

So an echo chamber is what you desire? Feeling angry and disgruntled with the game you claim to love and have voices justify your feelings? You know from what i've read on the first 2 pages no one is offering feed back? What will make the story better, what will make the game better? Do you have to kill off important scion characters like Y'sthola for the story to have impact? Do raids need increased difficulty, more mechanics? Are you wanting your raiding expereince to be like a dark souls game? Are the rewards not good enough for your time? Even though games are meant for you to have fun and enjoy yourself in? But please, insult me instead of trying to fix anything.

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I personally dont play the story so I wont touch that topic, as for dungeons and raids they can both vastly be improved yes, especially dungeons with a system like Mythic+ from WoW to make it fun to repeat over and over again, while still not mandatory at the same time.

The housing system needs to be improved as well, more wards need to be added and more items that actually have the same theme need to be added as well.

Don't let the bitter bother you. I'm with ya. Game's fun and there's a lot to do. Many people want to be bitter and they want everyone else to be as well.

Don't get me wrong, the game's not perfect and there are things to critique, but some people have taken it to the levels of a religion to hate not only the game but everyone who likes it. If they truly were only interested in critiquing the game, as they say, then they wouldn't attack people being positive about it or sharing their enjoyment of it.

Doing that isn't critiquing the game.

The biggest challenge in the game is for someone to make a positiv thread about something without it being a direct reaction to a negative thread. So difficult that no one has managed to beat it so far but we have our best people on the case.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

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You figured out what the forums are meant to be for, voicing your complaints and criticisms about the game.

Not everyone is going to be interested in doing every type of content, that is an impossible standard to meet. So when there isn't enough of a particular type of content during the expansion to satiate those players, or if it does exist but the rewards are lackluster for some reason, of course it's going to be met with negativity and complaints.

Compared to the prior expansions where we had eureka, bozja, actual relic grinds, etc, even though there were things to give feedback on, there was still more to do before the lull really set in.

Achievements are not content, they are just bonuses from doing the content, and to bring up my prior point, not everyone is an achievement hunter because it simply isn't worth their time to bash their head against the wall crafting an abhorrent amount of collectables. That content exists for that particular set of people, not for everyone.

The 2 minute meta is quite literally how the combat is designed, all of your most potent raid buffs along with lesser powerful raid buffs and ALSO your most potent abilities are in that selective 2 minute window, it is inevitable that it will wind up feeling the same in some capacity.

Based off your join date, of course you still have content to do, you started roughly half a year before Endwalker launch, so of course there's still a lot for you to do. There are quite many of us who have been here for 6+ years who have been there, done that. This expansion is perfect for new players if it's your "main game", not so much us vets who have already done the old content.

I'm not some hardcore raider, but there just isn't much for me in the game right now. Which is fine, it gives me some time to play other games while I wait for resets.

This isn't all to say that you aren't justified in voicing positive feedback either, if you're enjoying the game I'm happy for you and hope you continue to enjoy the game.

You're not alone. WoW refugee as well and I do enjoy the game. Keep that positive vibe, it's needed.

So whats wrong with the raids? I'm having a blast with normal raids / trials. Is savage (and or higher) not difficult / rewarding enough? I understand the desire for end game repeatability with dungeons like mythic plus however just saying the game is bad without trying to make a massive thread with tons of support about say adding in mythic plus variant isn't going to help anyone. TBH i only found out recently a lot of things I want to do with housing requires a mod just because of how the system works. I would think Square Enix knows its a big issue and are working on a fix but i'm only a couple years into this game. But outside specific content / difficulty how does that relate to endwalker being worse than heavensward or any other expansion. Cause tbh from story, to zone design, and or content availability, heavensward seems like the weakest expansion in game and thats not a troll statement, its a personal opinion.

Oh look, another WoW Refugee coping how this game is the best ever and they had more fun in the first 5 minutes than 20 years of WoW combined.


Hint: if you need to tell yourself and everyone how amazing everything is, then its not really that amazing.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

ah, just what this forum needed, toxic positivity

"look at me guys i'm right there is so much to do in the game and you all are wrong you negative nancies you didnt even do the achievement that requires you to fish 10000 fishes !!!"

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A bit overdramatic, but also fair.

Positivity is nice, just don't try and force it. It has the opposite effect when it's not genuine.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The biggest challenge in the game is for someone to make a positiv thread about something without it being a direct reaction to a negative thread. So difficult that no one has managed to beat it so far but we have our best people on the case.

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This tbh, it's always "yeah there is so much negativity so let me make a positive post"

it's really disingenuous

Just make a positive post if you want to make one, there is no need for it to be a "response" to the amount of negative threads

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

A bit overdramatic, but also fair.

Positivity is nice, just don't try and force it. It has the opposite effect when it's not genuine.

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It is genuine, I honestly love this game, I believe the story is the best any mmorpg has ever done. Combat feels better than say the 4 button rotation in wow (outside burst / cds). Professions are a god send (outside timed nodes), I enjoy this feature more than pve / pvp tbh. There are reasons to log in to do something every day and if you don't want to, you don't feel like you're being punished for it. It is just upsetting to see so much negativity when tbh the gaming industry seems to be going off a cliff and ff14 seems to be one of those few rare gems in the mud.

I’m with you OP! XIV will go down as one of my favorite games of all time! I really love the 9 year journey I had with my WoL through this story. I even changed him over the years to slowly look older. I have a lot of attachment to him.

I also love the vast content the game has on offer. I think I have more game time here than any game I have ever owned.

Looking forward to more years here and crossing my fingers next expansion continues to impress.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

So whats wrong with the raids? I'm having a blast with normal raids / trials. Is savage (and or higher) not difficult / rewarding enough?

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Problems with savage/ultimate differ from encounter to encounter based on how the fight is actually designed which can affect jobs' performance and how the mechanics feel to execute.

For Criterion dungeons it's the rewards, the actual content itself was met with positivity but the rewards are so lackluster no one really has a reason to go back and run it. We're currently hoping they do better with the rewards come 6.45 with the new criterion but...it isn't looking to bright in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

But outside specific content / difficulty how does that relate to endwalker being worse than heavensward or any other expansion. Cause tbh from story, to zone design, and or content availability, heavensward seems like the weakest expansion in game and thats not a troll statement, its a personal opinion.

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It directly contributes to the overall enjoyment of the expansion.

Heavensward had more complex job designs and the jobs actually felt like they had their own niche and identity. Whether that's bad or good is fairly subjective. Personally, I think they nailed it in Stormblood but it just needed refining, not whatever Shadowbringers brought.

There were more dungeons so your roulette at lvl cap wasn't just a coin flip.

The game systematically was also vastly different than now, there's been a lot of QoL added over the years.

Heavensward was also still when the game was relatively "new" and finding its footing, so people were ultimately in the same boat you are now. Enjoying everything they can find.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

It is genuine, I honestly love this game, I believe the story is the best any mmorpg has ever done. Combat feels better than say the 4 button rotation in wow (outside burst / cds). Professions are a god send (outside timed nodes), I enjoy this feature more than pve / pvp tbh. There are reasons to log in to do something every day and if you don't want to, you don't feel like you're being punished for it. It is just upsetting to see so much negativity when tbh the gaming industry seems to be going off a cliff and ff14 seems to be one of those few rare gems in the mud.

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Combat feels better than say the 4 button rotation in wow (outside burst / cds)

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? WoW literally has way more buttons to press than FFXIV, and they all do something, unlike FFXIV's.

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Professions are a god send (outside timed nodes)

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They are fun, until you have done the same casts a million times, and yeah, then it aint very fun anymore.

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There are reasons to log in to do something every day and if you don't want to

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Like what ?

https://i.gifer.com/795T.gif

Not sure if legit positive thread, or just a forum regular negative nancy arguing with themselves as bait.

I already see at least one poster and their alt...

https://media.tenor.com/s1wnF2DiWA0A...l-futurama.gif

If it's legit, cheers OP!

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

? WoW literally has way more buttons to press than FFXIV, and they all do something, unlike FFXIV's.



They are fun, until you have done the same casts a million times, and yeah, then it aint very fun anymore.



Like what ?

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I'm talking about rotations: Take Elemental Shaman in dragonflight: Flame shock, Lava Blast, Lightning Bolt, Earth shock (4 button basic rotation), now you can add some complexity with the talent tree like Icefury and 4x frost shocks. But it still boils down to a simple rotation that pretty much revolves around 4 abilities as most specs / classes in wow do. Say compared to the Dragoon who has 7 buttons, not counting any ability that has a 30 second cool down or more / global cd weaving. Thats all for single target. They are pretty much the same on aoe rotations though.

I mean if you're doing the same crafting rotation over and over and thats boring, couldn't the same argument apply to combat rotations?

Reasons to logging in: Roulettes, great exp, great tomes, good gil. Beast Tribe dailies. Gold saucer / ocean fishing, controlling the market, island sanctuaries. Not including any of the weekly stuff which has its own list. And yes WoW "has more buttons to press" but you aren't using most of them in single situations like a mob pack, or a single boss fight.

Most of the negativity is from trolls and attention seeking people.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

And yes WoW "has more buttons to press" but you aren't using most of them in single situations like a mob pack, or a single boss fight.

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Thats just wrong and shows you havent done anything in WoW. People even lust on packs in M+ despite it being historically a boss-cd

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Originally Posted by Zachia

I'm talking about rotations: Take Elemental Shaman in dragonflight: Flame shock, Lava Blast, Lightning Bolt, Earth shock (4 button basic rotation), now you can add some complexity with the talent tree like Icefury and 4x frost shocks. But it still boils down to a simple rotation that pretty much revolves around 4 abilities as most specs / classes in wow do. Say compared to the Dragoon who has 7 buttons, not counting any ability that has a 30 second cool down or more / global cd weaving. Thats all for single target. They are pretty much the same on aoe rotations though.

I mean if you're doing the same crafting rotation over and over and thats boring, couldn't the same argument apply to combat rotations?

Reasons to logging in: Roulettes, great exp, great tomes, good gil. Beast Tribe dailies. Gold saucer / ocean fishing, controlling the market, island sanctuaries. Not including any of the weekly stuff which has its own list. And yes WoW "has more buttons to press" but you aren't using most of them in single situations like a mob pack, or a single boss fight.

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Ele shaman is one of the easiest spec though so I'm not sure that's a good argument

As for reasons to log in, if you are leveling jobs sure, once that's done there is no reason to, tomes can be capped in 2 hrs of hunt trains, as for good gil, uhmm.... ?

Beast tribes same thing really, if you are a new player or at least recent player, yes, if you are an older player that content is long done.

Gold saucer I mean sure, but once again, except if you are after the 4 millions (I think ?) MGP mount, I'm not sure what the point is ? Ocean fishing is cool sure, as for the market I mean you cant do much in any case, FFXIV's MB is a lot less active than WoW's AH.

Island sanctuaries you go once a week to check in on your stuff and that's pretty much it

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

Most of the negativity is from trolls and attention seeking people.

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Yeah i'm beginning to notice that. Outside Stormpeaks and Zairava (who wasn't really being negative) who has offered valid criticisms, everyone else who is being a negative nancy is going straight towards insulting / mocking. As well as trying to put me down or make me out as some kind of villian for having a different opinion against the forums. I'm surprised some of these people don't get some vacation time away from the forums. To be brutally honest, I came to the forums for an answer to a question and didn't wanna make a thread about said question. However seeing the negativity was quite overwhelming and i was so curious as how to so many can bash a great game (not perfect but great) like they are being abused for just playing it. But seeing some of these responses I get it now. Anyways if anyone was curious to the question I had in mind it was: "Why are Dragoons getting a rework alongside astrologian where Dragoon feels complete / great". If anything at least out of personal taste wise, mechanist seems to be the most boring job in the game, I apologize mechanist mains.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Ele shaman is one of the easiest spec though so I'm not sure that's a good argument

As for reasons to log in, if you are leveling jobs sure, once that's done there is no reason to, tomes can be capped in 2 hrs of hunt trains, as for good gil, uhmm.... ?

Beast tribes same thing really, if you are a new player or at least recent player, yes, if you are an older player that content is long done.

Gold saucer I mean sure, but once again, except if you are after the 4 millions (I think ?) MGP mount, I'm not sure what the point is ? Ocean fishing is cool sure, as for the market I mean you cant do much in any case, FFXIV's MB is a lot less active than WoW's AH.

Island sanctuaries you go once a week to check in on your stuff and that's pretty much it

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You bring valid points, but I also know this is just one video game. If one feels like they have done everything there is to do, and there is no reason to log in and play. Why not play a different game? I'm not saying anyone is wrong for wanting this to be their only game as it is a great game, but even Yoshi-P wants his community to take breaks and try other games out... like FF16. If one is to play only one game, play it for hours daily, for years on end, it wouldn't matter what video game it was, people would feel burn out and a sense of nothing to do. I like to juggle between ff14, TW: Warhammer 3, and Diablo 4 atm. But as someone said here I do acknowledge there can be things done to better the content like ff14's mythic plus version. I just am surprised of the sheer negativity the forums has for a game that people claim to main / love.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

It is genuine, I honestly love this game, I believe the story is the best any mmorpg has ever done. Combat feels better than say the 4 button rotation in wow (outside burst / cds). Professions are a god send (outside timed nodes), I enjoy this feature more than pve / pvp tbh. There are reasons to log in to do something every day and if you don't want to, you don't feel like you're being punished for it. It is just upsetting to see so much negativity when tbh the gaming industry seems to be going off a cliff and ff14 seems to be one of those few rare gems in the mud.

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Your feelings may be genuine, but your reason for posting is not. You stated yourself that you were posting it as a reaction, so it gives off the vibes of the post being damage control.

I don't disagree with a lot of your points in the OP. I enjoy a lot of what you mentioned. I just don't really feel the need to mention it. I also don't believe that the content I enjoy takes away from the problems the game does have.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Your feelings may be genuine, but your reason for posting is not. You stated yourself that you were posting it as a reaction, so it gives off the vibes of the post being damage control.

I don't disagree with a lot of your points in the OP. I enjoy a lot of what you mentioned. I just don't really feel the need to mention it. I also don't believe that the content I enjoy takes away from the problems the game does have.

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Very valid points, I guess the reason i felt motivated to post was damage control for the forum mods / devs looking. I dont want them to think that "everyone hates their game" or "everything they do is wrong", or "everyone just wants to complain lets ignore all forum feedback". And I wanted to share that there are people who do love the game especially if any sprouts are looking at the forums and feel overwhelmed from said negativity and begin questioning their game of choice. But yeah I should of worded my statements better, it does look like my pro's overright people's cons when it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

Very valid points, I guess the reason i felt motivated to post was damage control for the forum mods / devs looking. I dont want them to think that "everyone hates their game" or "everything they do is wrong", or "everyone just wants to complain lets ignore all forum feedback". And I wanted to share that there are people who do love the game especially if any sprouts are looking at the forums and feel overwhelmed from said negativity and begin questioning their game of choice. But yeah I should of worded my statements better, it does look like my pro's overright people's cons when it doesn't.

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I wouldn't worry about that (at least the first part about the devs/mods looking). It's unlikely a company as big as SE doesn't have a dedicated analyst team to parse feedback in different social media platforms. And they probably use tools to monitor player activity IG. They don't really need manufactured positive feedback posts to feel better about the game they're making.

At the very least, these types of threads always 'force' some users to spend a bunch of their posts, as they simply cannot NOT post in them.

That said, I agree with NekoMataMata in this matter, making a "these forums are so toxic, let's be positive" isn't likely to draw anything BUT toxicity. If you enjoy something specific about the game, make a thread about that, I think that's much more healthy and hopefully it might encourage a more positive response.

I do not understand it outside that "people come to the forums to vent and complain" I guess you're still new

I feel like such a shiny pokemon for never have played WoW.
In fact i think thats the whole reason why i don't see how this whole rethoric of MMORPGs being dead or stagnant that has permeated the public opinion during years is real.

MMORPGs are fine, you just were playing WoW.

MMORPG's are dying either you get gatcha games coming from Asia or Korean markets or you get Western MMO's that fail to deliver i.e. New World. Growing up I always wanted to play a MMO then when I finally got into FF14 back in 2014 I was excited at first. Now I feel like the light of MMO's are fading out, communities are lackluster and making friends online is near impossible. The genre is dying and maybe MMO's are better off just fading out of existence since none of them can do anything exciting or new.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

Now I feel like the light of MMO's are fading out, communities are lackluster and making friends online is near impossible.

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This isn't the genre's fault tho.

Just as we don't need threads that are negative for the sake of being negative, we also don't need threads that are positive for the sake of being positive. People come to the forums when they have complaints, this is natural. Not everyone that's negative is a troll, people have legitimate complaints too.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

People come to the forums when they have complaints, this is natural. Not everyone that's negative is a troll, people have legitimate complaints too.

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Problem is that after some time, legitimate people seem to give up on constructive criticism since it seems like we're screaming into void, so they just quietly leave, while trolls stay.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

You figured out what the forums are meant to be for, voicing your complaints and criticisms about the game.

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Forums are for discussing the game – what you like as well as you don't like.

The devs need to hear what people are enjoying about the game, not just what they want changed.

And fans (or at least the ones who enjoy talking about the thing they like with other fans) need a place to gather and do that.

That's what the forum should be for. Not just the negative reactions without the other side, or how can the devs know what the majority want?

If nine people like a thing and the tenth person complains that it should be changed, the devs should ideally be aware of all ten people's opinion before deciding whether to change the thing.

Unfortunately the lack of moderation – perhaps in the idealistic intent of letting everyone have an equal say – has just frustrated and driven off a lot of the previous forumites who were here to talk about all aspects of the game and not just their grievances with it.

Remember how someone said that Positive Threads Never Get Attacked, but only Negative Threads do?....lol

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Remember how someone said that Positive Threads Never Get Attacked, but only Negative Threads do?....lol

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And they even question his sincerity. I do like to come to the forum, to sometimes speak up, rattle a cage or yank a chain every now and then, but some of those people, should have their internet permanently removed.

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Originally Posted by Zachia

Combat feels better than say the 4 button rotation in wow (outside burst / cds).

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It's most likely because you haven't reached the stage where you look behind the curtain yet.

If you played WoW for 16 years then you unfortunately kind of only experienced the twilight years when it comes to their class design (at least in my opinion) but what we've been experiencing in XIV is basically what WoW players experienced when going from Cataclysm/Mists of Pandaria class design to Warlords of Draenor/Legion class design.
With every expansion we get more and more nuance sucked out of our jobs and the difference between the barrier of entry and the maximum potential of gameplay is increasingly flattened.

While WoW might only have 4 or 5 core abilities you use constantly their class design is often reactionary, it switches up your gameplay with random procs and buffs that you need to deal with.

Rotations in XIV on the other hand are basically static. Especially in this expansion there is a 60 second loop of abilities you execute in the exact same sequence every time, with every 2 minutes being the big window where all the raid buffs come off cooldown and everyone spams their big potency attacks at the same time.
It becomes stale and monotonous incredibly quickly, like you're working on a factory belt doing the exact same motions over and over and over.

Nothing comes across as more disingenuous for praise when it has to be justified by bringing up WoW or another game and saying that "this game is better in every way!"
Is it impossible for former WoW players to discuss anything without constantly bringing up the fact that they played WoW? XIV does have a lot that is worthy of praise, and also a lot that is worthy of criticism. Having to put down another game that you clearly enjoyed enough to spend 16+ years on to say that you like this one is anything other than genuine, in my opinion. It comes across more like you're really trying to stick it to Blizzard more than anything.

Like it or not, this is where the developers tell people to come to give complaints, criticism and feedback towards the game. "Everything is awesome and amazing and so much better than WoW!" is equally as unhelpful to the developers as "Everything sucks and Yoshi-P is a hack and needs to be fired and SE should be destroyed". I come here to voice my complaints and criticisms towards healer gameplay as someone who took Yoshi-P up on his "go do Ultimate" response to healer feedback and still find that everything I was thinking before is still true even after clearing DSR. That's literally all I care about, and I'll continue giving my feedback until I unsub or they revert this terrible design philosophy towards this role. Does that mean I hate this game and am always negative towards it? Of course not.

You also say this:

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Maybe they are exclusively raiders and ignore the 80% of the other stuff in the game.

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which, no offense, shows that you really don't understand the broader complaints from players towards this expansion because raid content has been the vast majority of the meaty content that has come out this expansion. Most of the people complaining about having nothing to do aren't the people who've done DSR, TOP, Pandaemonium or Criterion, they're the people who don't want to or cannot put in the time for raiding. Outside of job design, "raiders" have had it good this expansion relative to other groups. It's the people in the middle who didn't start playing in the past year or two that don't have content with longevity being designed for them. If someone found a majority of their playtime in content like Bozja or Eureka, they don't have anything for them this expansion.

For me, almost all of my playtime this expansion is spent raiding Savage/Ultimate so I'm not too bummed that there's not a Bozja/Eureka this expansion, nor do I find Island Sanctuary or the relics upsetting, but I can see how players that don't enjoy raiding but did enjoy a grind would find it upsetting and I agree with them. They had what they liked taken from them and were given nothing in return, and that's definitely worth being upset about. These expansions last a long time, and "just wait for the next expansion" basically means "wait for 2-3 years and maybe things will change."

As for all the clearly bait/troll threads that constantly litter this forum at this point; the people who flood in to circlejerk and post about how "totally not trolled" and how aware they are that it's a troll thread and how blocked the OP is are worse than the people making them, because they're giving the threads life and constant activity. The threads are clearly doing their purpose no matter how self aware people think they are being by making their 45th snarky comments about it or the OP being an RMT bot.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

And they even question his sincerity.

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Not a strange reaction when the OP lists some of the most common complaints in the forum and then somewhat dismisses them (to OP, not even accusing that it was on purpose, it's just very easy to read it that way). I guarantee you that the response to this thread would be extremely different if it looked like it wasn't made in retaliation to negative posts.

Two positive threads off the top of my head that have been very well-received were the "What do you guys do for fun" one that was posted recently (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/483942), and the "Positive Feedback" one posted soon after 6.4's launch (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/482641), and both of them were just that. Regular topics with non-inflammatory opening posts. I struggle to think of a more vocal critic than Stormpeaks, for example, and they left positive feedback in both.