Lets talk about loot specifically savage loot.

Before I say anything I expect this to open a can of worms.

So why are people allowed to clear and get no loot. I know they get a book each week but that still means they can go 3-6 weeks without winning loot.

Now when I compare it to ultimate. Everybody who clears can get any weapon they want each week. Normal raids alliance raids also work this very same way.

So why is savage different?

Now this not only breeds toxicity in your raiders it also breeds toxicity in statics. Because it is making static players if they want to practice a raid forced to wipe party finder or be kicked from there static.

Now what does this do it makes clearing savage harder in part finder because its blurring the lines between bad raiders and static members who are fucking your party over just to practice a single mechanic.

I've heard countless times in voice chats from raiders saying they purposely wipe savage to not go ahead of there static.

Ive been in a few statics who told me to do the same or they would kick me. I got kicked because im not going to ruin other peoples experiences for some jerk on the net. That cares more about there own loot than the community.

So this is a very real situation and it doesen't stop rmt all this does is encourage players to make alts to sell runs with.

My proposed fix would be just make savage loot fall in line with normal raids or alliance raids. And thats everybody is allowed 1 piece per raid. This would fix alot of problems.

It would fix alot of the trolls and trap parties in savage and give people incentive to reclea and better learn the fights

To keep people subscribed.

Because the Devs and the randoms that don't even do the content put the gear on a pedestal, so it has to be very very very slowly spoon fed to you until about a month before the next tier is out.

If they do that I’m getting my BIS and not playing the game in like 2 weeks. Which is nice because in a single month of sub I can finish all msq, get BIS and go play other games.

PF would die super quickly but who cares, I got mine.

It I think that’s not quite what developers want but players would very much behave like this.

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Originally Posted by Miyumi_Nara

Now when I compare it to ultimate. Everybody who clears can get any weapon they want each week. Normal raids alliance raids also work this very same way.

So why is savage different?

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Because savage is meant to be easier and recleared. Ultimate is meant to be so hard that you get the clear and might not be able to pull it off a second time. Whether that's actually the case I'm not going to comment but maybe a group just lucks out on a lot of RNG aspects and can't replicate it.

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Now this not only breeds toxicity in your raiders it also breeds toxicity in statics. Because it is making static players if they want to practice a raid forced to wipe party finder or be kicked from there static.

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Yes, but the solution could be to keep loot weekly but make it so you having cleared just makes you automatically roll Need and then say unable to be obtained if you win the roll.

One solution is to have raid days be early in the week so you can PF later in the week.

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I've heard countless times in voice chats from raiders saying they purposely wipe savage to not go ahead of there static.

Ive been in a few statics who told me to do the same or they would kick me. I got kicked because im not going to ruin other peoples experiences for some jerk on the net. That cares more about there own loot than the community.

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Wow, never heard of that. That's a really awful thing to do. I don't usually see anything that looks intentional in PF though.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Wow, never heard of that. That's a really awful thing to do. I don't usually see anything that looks intentional in PF though.

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People 100% do this in prog parties because of the 2-chest system. Though i'm always on the boat of i would rather have experience in my raid group over a 2 chest for a week. If people wanted to PF before raid prog and cleared the content, all that means is we prog quicker as a group. Reclears should always be a 2-chest for a static though (IMO) :).

Because this game's raiding would die in less than a month so they have to timegate it to oblivion to keep people subscribed, timegates are fun right ?

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Originally Posted by Oizen

To keep people subscribed.

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Looks at the casuals that subscribe that don't run savage and I have to ask what keepss them subscribed the number is much larger than the savage players

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Because this game's raiding would die in less than a month so they have to timegate it to oblivion to keep people subscribed, timegates are fun right ?

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They could always gear gate instead. That worked great before.



The raid scene is too used to being able to clear week one. If they changed that people would riot.

Players can clear content faster than new content can be generated. Until ChatGPT/LLMs change that basic calculus, some sort of timegating is - and I cannot stress this enough - fun-maximizing for players (which is why it is ubiquitous in live service games).

There's no sinister conspiracy behind it. Without timegating, plenty of players would no-life grind gear and then endlessly post on the forums about having nothing to do - they would in fact like that system less.

That's it. There's nothing more complicated than that.

To keep Savage alive for at least a full patch cycle.

Otherwise, the only incentivize to continuously run Savage is parsing. Which is not only something the devs don't like but also means you're never going to help randoms get their clears if your objective is pretty numbers. The faster you gear also means a bigger dent in the crafting market as that gear becomes less and less relevant.

If you could get a guaranteed piece per fight, well let's see how that looks for Warrior BiS, which is my job this tier.

P9S: One kill
P10S: Five kills
P11S: Three kills
P12S: One kill

So of the five fights they've designed, two of them I would only have to kill a single time if I were guaranteed gear each floor. The simple reality is there's no possible way to incentivize content without some degree of timegating.

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Originally Posted by Miyumi_Nara

Looks at the casuals that subscribe that don't run savage and I have to ask what keepss them subscribed the number is much larger than the savage players

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They have their own content with its own timegating. Even putting that aside, the raid community is much more specific in why they play the game. If you could be done with Savage in under a month, you're likely losing a fair number of those players as there is literally zero reason for them to look at Savage again unless they like pretty numbers on a website. Casual players have different reasons for why they play.

Put bluntly, SE knows the raid community won't stick around unless there's a consistent amount of raid content which they cannot readily produce as quickly as it's consumed. So they timegate it to preserve some degree of longevity.

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Originally Posted by Miyumi_Nara

Looks at the casuals that subscribe that don't run savage and I have to ask what keepss them subscribed the number is much larger than the savage players

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I never said it was smart. Personally I think every savage could guarantee you one loot every time, not have to clear them in order every week, and remove the loot lockout entirely by the .x5 patch and nothing would change.

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Originally Posted by Miyumi_Nara

So why are people allowed to clear and get no loot. I know they get a book each week but that still means they can go 3-6 weeks without winning loot.

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That right there is the problem.

You pick when you want to raid.
You don't have to do some dungeon crawl to get to the "arena" where the boss that drops the loot is.
You don't need 36+ people to raid.
You don't lose experience when you die.
You don't have to respawn back in town and run all the way back.
You don't have to compete against the entire raiding population for a chance to fight the boss that drops the loot.
You don't have to kill 4-8 sub-bosses for a chance at the token you need to spawn the bigger boss where you only get one-shot at it before having to start again.

The list goes on and on. Essentially, some raiding players want a participation reward... and they get it.

Maybe think of raid loot as something special, not something a player is entitled to. You get the weekly token and the bonus is a chance at gear.

Players need to realign their expectations. Otherwise, we'll soon be at "clear the normal raid, click a button - get a full set of savage gear."

I was doing some extra practice outside my static time and if we got close enough I knew I would have to wall it, thankfully about half the pf grp was myself and friends with this understanding. But we put up the pf under the title of practice not clear. And friends found some others they could clear with themselves as a group later from that practice. I don't know about others but I don't go into any "practice x" grp expecting it to clear. I'd join a clear group for such things.

I really wish I could help friends or randoms get their clears without cucking their loot. I also wish that accessories were 2 books. Just in general I want to be able to play with others more freely and gear my alt jobs in reasonable time. That is not really doable atm unless I finish getting my alt through endwalker and go unlock the raids on that.

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Originally Posted by Miyumi_Nara

Looks at the casuals that subscribe that don't run savage and I have to ask what keepss them subscribed the number is much larger than the savage players

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We all know it's erp that keeps them around.

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Originally Posted by Miyumi_Nara

Looks at the casuals that subscribe that don't run savage and I have to ask what keepss them subscribed the number is much larger than the savage players

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Casual player keep logging in because they enjoy the content they're playing. Most endgame raiders just do it for the kill credit and flashy rewards, not really for the fun of playing the content.
So, you have to stretch the gear out for raiders. Otherwise they would get their flashy gear/mount/weapons and leave till the next content drop.

Personally feel like the entire savage raiding system is just not well designed imo

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I was doing some extra practice outside my static time and if we got close enough I knew I would have to wall it, thankfully about half the pf grp was myself and friends with this understanding. But we put up the pf under the title of practice not clear. And friends found some others they could clear with themselves as a group later from that practice. I don't know about others but I don't go into any "practice x" grp expecting it to clear. I'd join a clear group for such things.

As somebody else in this thread This is just shitty to do. Because you are blocking people regardless of there loot. I go into practice parties not expecting a clear but wont deny the group the clear if there able to do such. Because you know why im not a toxic person. I don't treat FF14 statics like a job because there not paying me.

I really wish I could help friends or randoms get their clears without cucking their loot. I also wish that accessories were 2 books. Just in general I want to be able to play with others more freely and gear my alt jobs in reasonable time. That is not really doable atm unless I finish getting my alt through endwalker and go unlock the raids on that.

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The loot system is your reasoning for doing such this just further proves my point why it's bad. And why it needs a change. You sir have openly validated that this is an issue in savage and the loot system breeds toxic players I thank you for commenting