Silver Icons in treasure dungeons feel way too rare.

Did some maths tonight because i got frustrated by not being able to get the 2 minions.

For those that dont know, in Ophiotaurus Treasure maps dungeons, if you hit the Silver you get 50/100k gil+ can roll on one of two minions.
I have been trying to get them since their launch on Jan 10th but in all that time have only seen the Silver Icon 3 times, way too stupidly rare to lock a collectable or two behind.

So heres some maths on my experiences. Im rounding down most me results to the average since i haven't kept exact numbers.

1: I have consistently run 2 groups of 8 players a week with 3+ maps each without fail.
Its been 20 weeks and 3 days as of this post since the maps patch dropped.
3x8=24, 24x2= 48 maps a week and that's rounding down to the 'minimum possible' under those conditions.
48x20= 960+ maps run since their launch.

2: Treasure dungeons i note as having about 2 portals per 3 maps. I may be wrong on my maths here, I want to say 640+ treasure dungeons give or take.

3: Each Treasure dungeon average's 3 spins, in my experience leaning towards 4 spins but rarely 5 or 1 and 2.so that's 1920+ Spins of the Treasure wheel.

So in 1920 spins, only 3! have hit the Silver Icon that drops the minion. This gives the same gil as the gold ! icon which we strike 2-3+ times a night and the gold also gives cloth, fashion and mount items.
For 2 minions there is next to no chance of getting and put it on OCE with its low pop? Nobody posts them on the market board and the price never drops for those that do go up (27 mil each last check)

Seriously SE, up the rate on Silver please at least to the same as the gold !, They are minions, Not game breaking super weapons/armor.

I dread to think how long its going to take me to get the Stormbloods Thiefs map title, that requires getting to room 7 of the rare Thiefs maps 20 times, i have run nearly 100 now and not once seen past room 3, last time i looked at FF collect, it claimed only 0.010% of players have it.

Im of the belief that if someone puts the work in, they should be rewarded for what they were working for, RNG and probability mean someone can work at it every day for the rest of the games life and never accomplish their goal.

I am of the firm belief that it is impossible to get passed round 3.

I have done hundreds of maps and have never gotten passed round 3. Anyone who says they have is cheating.

Treasure dungeons being primarily gated by rng you have no control over is why i dont like that content.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Treasure dungeons being primarily gated by rng you have no control over is why i dont like that content.

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Agreed. They are a fun FC map event you can do in an evening once you gather/buy a bunch and its such a bummer when the first or second gate fails. They should rework it so that the only later gates where the "riches" are have that 50/50 door mechanic or maybe add some fun "stand on floor button/shape in a sequence" type activation puzzle to open it instead. Maybe use that mini game in post ShB MSQ where you have to flip 2 similar cards to rescue your npc party in that temple

the silver thing cant happen on spin 1 or 5, its exclusive to spins 2-4. I got 5 or 6 in about 1000 maps portals

also the odds of reaching spin 4 are about 20% per map, I doubt that anyone did hundreds without getting there. You should play lottery then

It's never just 1 spin; if your first spin lands on an Atamos he gets zapped every time

I'm not sure about the 2/3 chance at portal, but Ophio maps have seemed to have a better portal rate than past maps. All previous maps were roughly 50% chance at portal, except the ones with 100% chance. The longest no-portal streak I've had with Ophios is like 6 or 7, I've gone 10+ in a row without portal several times with previous maps

My experience is you're at least 10 times as likely to get a full clear as you are to get a silver roll, I've personally seen more 4x and 5x bonus boss chests than silver rolls

It's nice having some things ultra-rare, especially when they can sell on the marketboard

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

the silver thing cant happen on spin 1 or 5, its exclusive to spins 2-4. I got 5 or 6 in about 1000 maps portals

also the odds of reaching spin 4 are about 20% per map, I doubt that anyone did hundreds without getting there. You should play lottery then

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can confirm this as complete bs.

We got the hydaelyn symbol in ophiotaur maps on the first spin.

Whether it's impossible or exceedingly rare to get silver on the first roll, I suspect that the dial is "rigged" and not an even chance of all twelve possibilities coming up.

lol - i don't like it cuz it doesn't give me what i want right away so i don't play it. these things are designed to be played over the lifetime of the whole service of the game. the rng is so high to prevent a glut of the rare things going too fast

I’ve probably done over 50 of these maps at this point… I have never seen silver once! :(

The sliver ring is meant to be very very very rare. I'll admit it's pretty evil for SE to tie those dude's minions to it, but they will make you gil if you get lucky lmao.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

The sliver ring is meant to be very very very rare. I'll admit it's pretty evil for SE to tie those dude's minions to it, but they will make you gil if you get lucky lmao.

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lol I made someone very happy paying 12 mil for Hades. But now I’m too broke for Hythlodaeus! LOL

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

lol I made someone very happy paying 12 mil for Hades. But now I’m too broke for Hythlodaeus! LOL

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the duality of an Elpis simp. I got the lady dude from the questline lmao.

i've seen silver twice in last 3 days. 2 4-round all gold portals last 2 days.

Pajama cult unite

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Whether it's impossible or exceedingly rare to get silver on the first roll, I suspect that the dial is "rigged" and not an even chance of all twelve possibilities coming up.

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I'd be more likely to believe this as Yoshida mentioned back during Aquapolis that there is no "50/50 chance" of getting through.
The game decides when you zone into the door dungeons how far you are getting and your choices from that point do not matter. This likely is the same for the Shifting Altars.

Very few people seem to understand this however and equate it to RNG or debate on which door to choose. A choice of which does not actually matter.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

can confirm this as complete bs.

We got the hydaelyn symbol in ophiotaur maps on the first spin.

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the symbol is there but its impossible to hit, its a fake symbol

I've seen just four clears and one silver in maybe ~300 Ophio maps. Haven't been through as many Zonure maps but I saw a silver in there too (did I tell this story before? It was around 9AM and I ended up helping some guy sitting alone in PF walk away with a beaver). It wouldn't surprise me if Ophio clears were made especially rare since the maps are both gathered and opened in the same zone. The gil rewards certainly are worse, to the point where I'd rather just get ejected on the second incantation than the fifth to save time if it's not going to bother clearing.

Both the portal chance and incantation success rate in the shifting dungeons might as well be a coin flip at best, and that's five successive coin flips if you ignore the first incantation. Speaking of, I've only seen an Atomos there once, effectively making it a rarer occurrence than the silvers as far as I'm concerned; I figured they wouldn't even bother putting fakeouts there, but apparently they did. The only thing I can assume is rarer than that would be getting three zapped Atomoses (Atomosi?) in a row, which I can't recall ever seeing. That makes it especially hopeless when you see two of them before the final incantation.

Out of all the treasure dungeons, Excitatron seems to have a noticeably higher clear rate, even despite having the same number of rooms as DoLG. I also agree with the sentiment that picking a door in the door dungeons doesn't make a difference; the game has to allow you to reach the end, which leads to me agreeing with the sentiment that the grind is miserable. Now, if you want something to be skeptical about, someone I was Ophio mapping with said they got three clears in five maps (no, not just portals).

Sidenote: I kind of wish people didn't feel the need to comment on every single incantation. They even know an Atomos can get zapped and they still freak out whenever they see one. After thousands of incantations, you'll start to think it's a jinx.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

[…]The game decides when you zone into the door dungeons how far you are getting and your choices from that point do not matter. This likely is the same for the Shifting Altars.

Very few people seem to understand this however and equate it to RNG or debate on which door to choose. A choice of which does not actually matter.

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Well this is very depressing to read. I haven’t done many of the latest map myself, probably only about a hundred since the first time it was implemented. But I have not seen a clear at all since then. Trying to farm the clear credit feels like a daunting task now.

I did saw 1 silver roll ironically, it was also my first time seeing it.

I have literally never been past the 3rd/4th floor on treasure dungeons, my luck sucks.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

lol - i don't like it cuz it doesn't give me what i want right away so i don't play it. these things are designed to be played over the lifetime of the whole service of the game. the rng is so high to prevent a glut of the rare things going too fast

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This is such a lazy response. OP literally said they ran Treasure Maps almost 1,000 times yet somehow they're just upset "it doesn't give me what I want right away"

Maybe, just maybe the system isn't well thought out and people don't find utterly insane RNG odds fun? You can have high RNG that's still reasonably obtainable. Going too far in the opposite direction just leans to the same end result as making the reward to easily obtainable. People stop caring.

saw another last night... 3 in 4 days. almost won too.

Grade 15's can be duo'd, my friend and I do tank/heals. I was finding I could solo alot of 15 and think those with more talent could pull it off better.

My suggestion is to join a PF big group, up your attempts and grind for a a few hours. You'll see it.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is such a lazy response. OP literally said they ran Treasure Maps almost 1,000 times yet somehow they're just upset "it doesn't give me what I want right away"

Maybe, just maybe the system isn't well thought out and people don't find utterly insane RNG odds fun? You can have high RNG that's still reasonably obtainable. Going too far in the opposite direction just leans to the same end result as making the reward to easily obtainable. People stop caring.

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I thought he was talking about himself... I guess the "lol" does make it look sarcastic.

Agreed, I haven’t seen it stop on silver once

I used to host these a lot, but it got harder and harder to find people willing to go because everyone would get understandably burnt out on how frustrating the rng aspects were.

Yeah I don't like it either OP, it does need to change.

Three more final invocations in Agonon landed on Atomos with no zap. Up to probably a dozen of those in a row by now. Not really sure how I even managed to see four clears.

I've been doing map since HW and I never see that Silver at all... Guess my luck is that horrendous huh? The only time I see Gold is just at Elpis...

I think my map group has done about 800 map dungeons since the Elpis maps dropped and we got silver exactly once. It's definitely extremely rare.