So, I had an idea about roulettes

Alright, so imagine this:

Duty Roulette: Leveling (Beginner) -> ARR and HW Dungeons
Duty Roulette: Leveling (Intermediate) -> STB and SHB Dungeons
Duty Roulette: Alliance Raids (Beginner) -> Crystal Tower and Shadow of Mhach
Duty Roulette: Alliance Raids (Intermediate) -> Return to Ivalice and YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse

Leveling and Alliance Roulettes are split in two: one for the first expansions and one for the later ones (but not the last one). Furthermore, Main Scenario Roulettes are turned into solo duties and the beginner roulettes are the ones who give the big Poetics reward. Also, rework Coils to add them to Normal Raids.

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Originally Posted by Vandso

Alright, so imagine this:

Duty Roulette: Leveling (Beginner) -> ARR and HW Dungeons
Duty Roulette: Leveling (Intermediate) -> STB and SHB Dungeons
Duty Roulette: Alliance Raids (Beginner) -> Crystal Tower and Shadow of Mhach
Duty Roulette: Alliance Raids (Intermediate) -> Return to Ivalice and YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse

Leveling and Alliance Roulettes are split in two: one for the first expansions and one for the later ones (but not the last one). Furthermore, Main Scenario Roulettes are turned into solo duties and the beginner roulettes are the ones who give the big Poetics reward. Also, rework Coils to add them to Normal Raids.

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I think the only issue with this is older MMOs like XIV will eventually end up in a spot where the population is heavily tilted towards higher levels, leaving beginner roulettes in low-population and longer que times.

Of course I'm always bored when in my 80's I end up in a level 20 dungeon, and also bored with 80% Crystal Tower, but I imagine that may be why they keep it like this.

I guess my question would be, why?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I guess my question would be, why?

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I'm guessing some people are tired of ARR dungeons and getting CT raids every day. I know I am - the number of times I get anything Stormblood - Endwalker while levelling is miniscule, so I'm stuck levelling with a small portion of my play kit a lot of the time.

Not saying this would be a great change, but I can see why some may like this.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm guessing some people are tired of ARR dungeons and getting CT raids every day. I know I am - the number of times I get anything Stormblood - Endwalker while levelling is miniscule, so I'm stuck levelling with a small portion of my play kit a lot of the time.

Not saying this would be a great change, but I can see why some may like this.

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So stop doing the roulette's every day? If you're leveling just run the highest dungeon. Roulettes really are not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So stop doing the roulette's every day? If you're leveling just run the highest dungeon. Roulettes really are not worth it.

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Running highest level dungeon takes forever to wait for as a DPS. The trusts are too slow and boring to me also and not my cup of tea.

XP and money rewards are still nice running these daily even with an unlucky chain of more boring dungeons/raids. Sometimes I do get a higher level dungeon or raid and while less common, I do have actual fun then.

I'm also not the person asking for the change. For me the rewards vs. cost (usually boredom) is still worth it, or I'd already have stopped.

Where's the Endwalker stuff?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm guessing some people are tired of ARR dungeons and getting CT raids every day. I know I am - the number of times I get anything Stormblood - Endwalker while levelling is miniscule, so I'm stuck levelling with a small portion of my play kit a lot of the time.

Not saying this would be a great change, but I can see why some may like this.

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Meanwhile I've stopped doing leveling roulette because it's always Ktisis Hyperboreia or Aitiascope lately. Anecdotal, yes, I know, but in the last few months, I've had two Shadowbringers dungeons and the rest were all Endwalker, usually those two.

I just do trusts for dps leveling. Roulettes are faster once you're in sure, but I hate waiting for queues. I'm not good at doing other things while I wait for the queue to pop, my brain gets frustrated. I like to focus on one thing at a time.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Meanwhile I've stopped doing leveling roulette because it's always Ktisis Hyperboreia or Aitiascope lately. Anecdotal, yes, I know, but in the last few months, I've had two Shadowbringers dungeons and the rest were all Endwalker, usually those two.

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I wish I had such luck :) I was lucky enough to get 1 ShadowBringers and 1 Endwalker in the past two weeks, but the rest for all ARR & HW on the RDM I'm levelling.

I don't like the idea of dishing out more roulette instances for the sake of it. Just balance everything accordingly.

If I had to say considering everything, remove any attachment of the ShB relic and tie it directly to the Alliance roulette rather than the raid series itself. Further to this, just rebalance the ARR alliance raids appropriately so that everything isn't a wet noodle.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I don't like the idea of dishing out more roulette instances for the sake of it. Just balance everything accordingly.

If I had to say considering everything, remove any attachment of the ShB relic and tie it directly to the Alliance roulette rather than the raid series itself. Further to this, just rebalance the ARR alliance raids appropriately so that everything isn't a wet noodle.

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As an aside, I see more deaths in ARR than most tiers. Just this week I saw:

1. 8 people dying in the trash rooms in Crystal Tower.
2. 5 people blown up by Meteor in Crystal Tower.
3. 3 people blown up by Final Boss in Crystal Tower.
4. 11 people somehow dying on first trash room in World of Darkness.
5. Regular people not cleansing Death from Eye Boss.
6. 1 player dying to Cloud not knowing to run from the focused sky-beam.

Watching these deaths in otherwise faceroll content always brings a smile to my face, as others I'd be fast asleep.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Meanwhile I've stopped doing leveling roulette because it's always Ktisis Hyperboreia or Aitiascope lately. Anecdotal, yes, I know, but in the last few months, I've had two Shadowbringers dungeons and the rest were all Endwalker, usually those two.

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This happens to me too, but I assume a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm probably one of the few omnis that bothers with levelling(I only really do it 3x a week for the clusters). We're the ones that help fill current expac leveling roulettes.

You will get ARR low level dungeons and you will like it, having 2 spells to use is very fun isnt it ? Arent you entertained ?

/s

Would be nice but won’t ever happen because they need people to fill in the older content for sprouts and people low on time will still go for Syrcus because of how much faster it goes so the queues for intermediate and above would take forever to pop.
Best thing they can do is put people in duties based on their class level and not ilvl so that people can’t just take their armour off to influence what everyone else will get.

Burning out should be considered when calculating reward vs time. XP reward when running Main Scenario and Alliance may be good. But if you're not having fun running them, is the reward worth it? Video game is supposed to be fun. Rushing towards max level is not rewarding if you don't have fun doing it.

The whole point of having a dungeon roulette is to put players where they are needed according to demand. Artificially cutting the roulettes up like this would just divide the player population pool into smaller cliques, resulting in longer queue times for everyone.

No high-level players will queue for "Beginner" roulette, I guarantee it. New players and those who want to level alt jobs will be punished for it. And then the game will begin its downward spiral into death.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

The whole point of having a dungeon roulette is to put players where they are needed according to demand. Artificially cutting the roulettes up like this would just divide the player population pool into smaller cliques, resulting in longer queue times for everyone.

No high-level players will queue for "Beginner" roulette, I guarantee it. New players and those who want to level alt jobs will be punished for it. And then the game will begin its downward spiral into death.

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Lol? You're being absolutely ridiculous. This game won't die because ERPers will keep it alive.

You’d just have longer queues as players would be splitted into even more categories. Atm I get a bit of everything on my DC. Been getting mostly 70+ trials, raids and dungeons lately.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I think the only issue with this is older MMOs like XIV will eventually end up in a spot where the population is heavily tilted towards higher levels, leaving beginner roulettes in low-population and longer que times.

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As long as f2p exists, anything up to lvl 60 will always be decently populated. The f2p system in this game is what makes old content healthy in population.

Its mostly lvl 70 and 80 content that lacks players. And currently the situation is worse since a lot of higher level players are sucked away towards that low level content, causing queues to explode in times. But that roulette can obviously also contain the lvl 90 roulettes in them. Splitting the roulettes will on that give players more motivation to take the harder roulettes (especialy when the lvl 50/60 ones arent going to give any proper awards anymore - as for example it only has to give poetics and none of the other tomestones).

For the dungeons the situation isnt too bad though, as there its just groups of 4 people. But for the raids its 24, and it takes only 1 person to do an ilvl cheese to force a certain raid (they realy should set a minimum ilvl on these raids). Splitting them will prevent the need for people to ilvl cheese (or they will only do that for the lvl 50/60 raids), and therefor help the lvl 70 and 80 ones in popularity.

And its not like you realy need to face that content too often. You are going to get a certain raid once per 9 days on average. Its not going to become as dull as quickly. Probably in this case the lvl 90 raids pushing that number even lower. And that is fine, that they show up is more important than to have it entirely balanced. Once per 2 weeks for each of the old raids is enough to spice things up a bit.

The current roulette however... be happy if you get something other than CT as 90% of the time its those.

This thread reminded me that a few years ago, I had my own idea for reorganizing how dungeons are sorted into roulettes, and I believe I future proofed it enough that I wouldn’t change anything about my proposal today.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lette-concerns

I was never fond of the distinction between leveling dungeons and level capped dungeons as far as the roulettes went, along with entire parties of level 60+ people for example getting thrown into an ARR dungeon anyway.

Although I guess nowadays, every new dungeon is a mandatory story dungeon…

How about they rebalance the raids to accomodate the years of potency creep, stat creep and folding actions into one action or traits instead? Like have actual HP pools reflecting current day potencies.

Would certainly lessen the faceroll paper structures they call raid bosses and would improve overall user experience for first timers as well as replayability.

Ofc adjust exp/tome rewards as needed.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

How about they rebalance the raids to accomodate the years of potency creep, stat creep and folding actions into one action or traits instead? Like have actual HP pools reflecting current day potencies.

Would certainly lessen the faceroll paper structures they call raid bosses and would improve overall user experience for first timers as well as replayability.

Ofc adjust exp/tome rewards as needed.

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That would require just generally more work re-balancing. Planning, coding, testing, QA, etc.

Not saying they're incapable, but if they happy with how things are currently, and it seems to me they are, I can't see them being willing to put in the extra effort.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I think the only issue with this is older MMOs like XIV will eventually end up in a spot where the population is heavily tilted towards higher levels, leaving beginner roulettes in low-population and longer que times.

Of course I'm always bored when in my 80's I end up in a level 20 dungeon, and also bored with 80% Crystal Tower, but I imagine that may be why they keep it like this.

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If SE really wanted to they could fix this problem by giga buffing the rewards from mentor roulette as in give them more mounts/minions/glams. Perhaps even overhaul the mentor roulette system and just make the roulette accessible by players at cap.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Running highest level dungeon takes forever to wait for as a DPS. The trusts are too slow and boring to me also and not my cup of tea.

XP and money rewards are still nice running these daily even with an unlucky chain of more boring dungeons/raids. Sometimes I do get a higher level dungeon or raid and while less common, I do have actual fun then.

I'm also not the person asking for the change. For me the rewards vs. cost (usually boredom) is still worth it, or I'd already have stopped.

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Try popping over to Aether. I recently blitzed an alt through the MSQ and have grinded several jobs on her back when I still had the Road to 80 buff. Longest I waited was ten minutes for any of the ShB or EW dungeons.

Just to comment on what Ransu said, I'll note that Roulettes are actually pretty bad for EXP. Leveling is only good if you get a dungeon in the same expansion your level range is or one previous. So if you're 85, then Holminster Switch or higher. Any other dungeon is a decent loss in EXP. Alliance is only okay because CT is fast, albeit it very boring. Trial/Normal are fine if you get ARR/Gordias but anything current isn't worth the EXP.

Of course this is purely for efficiency sake.

What is good EXP though that most people forget about are daily hunts. EW hunts give you roughly 3M passive EXP per day. Between that and the Elephants, it's half a level per day for very little investment.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Try popping over to Aether. I recently blitzed an alt through the MSQ and have grinded several jobs on her back when I still had the Road to 80 buff. Longest I waited was ten minutes for any of the ShB or EW dungeons.

Just to comment on what Ransu said, I'll note that Roulettes are actually pretty bad for EXP. Leveling is only good if you get a dungeon in the same expansion your level range is or one previous. So if you're 85, then Holminster Switch or higher. Any other dungeon is a decent loss in EXP. Alliance is only okay because CT is fast, albeit it very boring. Trial/Normal are fine if you get ARR/Gordias but anything current isn't worth the EXP.

Of course this is purely for efficiency sake.

What is good EXP though that most people forget about are daily hunts. EW hunts give you roughly 3M passive EXP per day. Between that and the Elephants, it's half a level per day for very little investment.

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Obviously it depends on how quickly you're trying to level, but I found just running the highest level available dungeon outside of roulettes is a pretty decent way of getting XP.

I.e. at 81-82 do Zot, 83-84 do Vanaspati, etc

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Try popping over to Aether. I recently blitzed an alt through the MSQ and have grinded several jobs on her back when I still had the Road to 80 buff. Longest I waited was ten minutes for any of the ShB or EW dungeons.

Just to comment on what Ransu said, I'll note that Roulettes are actually pretty bad for EXP. Leveling is only good if you get a dungeon in the same expansion your level range is or one previous. So if you're 85, then Holminster Switch or higher. Any other dungeon is a decent loss in EXP. Alliance is only okay because CT is fast, albeit it very boring. Trial/Normal are fine if you get ARR/Gordias but anything current isn't worth the EXP.

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Thanks for this info, very helpful to me as honestly I get higher level dungeons so rarely that I knew there were a bit more XP, but wasn't sure how much. I still have 7 jobs to level so I could try this method for those I have left.

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As for the suggestions to rebalance CT and older content - the way I look at it, it's not content meant for me who has been doing these raids off and on for 9 years. Of course these are all easy and old hat after this much time.

My role is to fill up spots for newer players who find these challenging, and in return I get tomestones and roulette bonuses. The numbers of deaths I regularly see here, there are still those players out there that this content was meant for and is still a challenge as they learn.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What is good EXP though that most people forget about are daily hunts. EW hunts give you roughly 3M passive EXP per day. Between that and the Elephants, it's half a level per day for very little investment.

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Second this. Everyone sleeps on the daily hunts but they're a great source of regular xp. One of my go-to's when I'm leveling classes after I roll through my roulettes for the day. Beast tribes, too.

While I was still leveling, I would do the daily hunts while in queue for duty finder. Passed the time better than just sitting around an aetheryte.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

This thread reminded me that a few years ago, I had my own idea for reorganizing how dungeons are sorted into roulettes, and I believe I future proofed it enough that I wouldn’t change anything about my proposal today.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lette-concerns

I was never fond of the distinction between leveling dungeons and level capped dungeons as far as the roulettes went, along with entire parties of level 60+ people for example getting thrown into an ARR dungeon anyway.

Although I guess nowadays, every new dungeon is a mandatory story dungeon…

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That's pretty much what I want to be done with the roulettes. 50/60/70/80 is getting too long of a name, and people don't really run it much. Making mandatory and optional dungeon roulettes helps things along, and giving them the same bonus DOES encourage people to do them.

In terms of the main idea of this thread, they just need to lower the max ilvl in LotA and ST to make them on par with WoD in difficulty, and watch how quickly people stop ilvl cheesing. The second they're forced to actually put effort into things, they'll be encouraged not to game the system. That or make it so the alliance raid roulette gives exp bonuses based on the level of the raid. Get CT? Well you're getting the lowest amount of exp bonus, barely 1/5 of a level if you're in the 80s, but 4/5 of a level if you're in the 50s. Get Nier? You're getting a ton of exp, around 4/5 of what you need to level.

Honesty the best thing is to just unlock Mentor roulette. It's honestly my favourite roulette in the game. [Mainly because it's the only one that gives access to EX trials]

The fact you can end up anywhere is the best thing going. Really mixes it up and you're also helping people stuck in long queues.