can we have duty action "potion" and "phoenix down" on dungeons?

phoenix down: 120 seconds cd with hard cast
potion: 60 seconds cd healing 40% of max HP

https://media3.giphy.com/media/xiMUw...giphy.gif&ct=g

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Originally Posted by Ayasaki128

phoenix down: 120 seconds cd with hard cast
potion: 60 seconds cd healing 40% of max HP

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why tho? you have a healer for a reason and they are even optional in dungeons these days.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

why tho? you have a healer for a reason and they are even optional in dungeons these days.

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I bet it's for those times when you've got a lot of new people who are taking way more damage than normal, and the healer goes down but there is no RDM/SMN to res them...and nobody is carrying a Phoenix Down, which - iirc - can't even be used in combat anyways.

Healers have enough self-confidence issues, no need to make them feel worse.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

I bet it's for those times when you've got a lot of new people who are taking way more damage than normal, and the healer goes down but there is no RDM/SMN to res them...and nobody is carrying a Phoenix Down, which - iirc - can't even be used in combat anyways.

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Then wipe..... like holy shit we don't need more sources of healing.

The pheonix down kinda makes 0 sense since you can't use it in combat any way....unless you're also asking for them to be usable in combat as well.....but as Mosha just said, wipe and try again....That or just always play as a RDM/SMN and your problem is kinda fixed....If you need a res before the levels you get them on those jobs, then the problem might be elsewhere.....

I would wish they rather expand and make the potions that are already in the game viable. And maybe let phoenix down used in fights.

Make items great again!

If the reason healer can't be anymore interesting is because of preventing wipes when the healer is dead.

Sure, make Pheonix Down actually useful. In exchange please make healing more interesting.

Agreed, I'd get behind having more (but restricted) sources of combat res if it made SE willing to actually lean on healers in casual content a little more.

A 60% max hp heal every 60 seconds seems kind of unnecessary though?

just delete healers

Playing Healer is already playing the baby sitter role where you're just there to keep people who can't stay out of the bad alive. This would kill what's left of that.

Being able to use Phoenix Downs in combat wouldn't be bad...but they may wish to give it a 6m cooldown (that doesn't reset when you wipe). Because as it stands now, they could delete every potion (that isn't a stat potion) and phoenix down in the game and nothing of value would be lost.

Just wipe.

Summoner (lvl 12) and RDM (lvl 64) can rez on top of the healers. We don’t need more rezzes.

People should just learn the fights. Otherwise people will put even less effort into it. The game is already easy enough.

I wouldn't mind an in-combat phoenix down, but the potion might be a bit much. The only use I see for it is making your healer frustrated you won't like them heal you or no healer runs.

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

I wouldn't mind an in-combat phoenix down, but the potion might be a bit much. The only use I see for it is making your healer frustrated you won't like them heal you or no healer runs.

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I agree with your thoughts on the potion, the potion is unneeded.

Why not make Max Potions (before lv60) and the latest Hyper Potion (lv80(?) and above)? They're a fairly good at foolproofing bad healer in your party. If even that isn't saving from wiping then there's something else very wrong in the party.

Not much reason I see to implement this..,
and the Duty that would need it already has em. Which are largely EXP-Zones, and Variants.

Would not really make any sense to thegame at all.

So essentially giving tanks the ability to raise. This would be completely broken. No thanks.

Not to mention that the healer role needs more reasons to exist, not less.

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Originally Posted by Tint

So essentially giving tanks the ability to raise. This would be completely broken. No thanks.

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IMO the only ones who should get to use Phoenix Downs in battle are Physical Ranged. Makes sense for the "support tax" to come with better support.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

IMO the only ones who should get to use Phoenix Downs in battle are Physical Ranged. Makes sense for the "support tax" to come with better support.

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Yeah nah. We don't need a Phoenix Down for anyone in the party since the Healer's supposed to be the backbone on that front. If they die, you either

A) DPS it down and use your tools to survive as long as possible.
or
B) Reset and wipe.

I can see why it may be useful, but I don't think we need to deteriorate Healers any further than how they're already being treated.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Yeah nah. We don't need a Phoenix Down for anyone in the party since the Healer's supposed to be the backbone on that front. If they die, you either

A) DPS it down and use your tools to survive as long as possible.
or
B) Reset and wipe.

I can see why it may be useful, but I don't think we need to deteriorate Healers any further than how they're already being treated.

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Then let's remove Resurrection and Verraise while we're at it. After all, it's the healers own fault if they die, right? Because they were trash, they didn't know what they were doing, they're clearly not good enough for this...ehh WHM main? I'm sure you'll be fine with more pressure on you and getting blamed for your own death.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Then let's remove Resurrection and Verraise while we're at it. After all, it's the healers own fault if they die, right?

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To be frank, removing the Raise Utility from SMN/RDM wouldn't change much aside from how raiders progress in a tier; in casual content though, it'd put more emphasis on the healer not dying so the party doesn't die. The only spikes in difficulty are The Vault, Doma Castle, Holminster Switch, and for Endwalker Ktisis Hyperboreia.

As someone said earlier:

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Originally Posted by Tint

the healer role needs more reasons to exist, not less.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

To be frank, removing the Raise Utility from SMN/RDM wouldn't change much aside from how raiders progress in a tier; in casual content though, it'd put more emphasis on the healer not dying so the party doesn't die. The only spikes in difficulty are The Vault, Doma Castle, Holminster Switch, and for Endwalker Ktisis Hyperboreia.

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If a healer dying once just results in a group wipe due to no other raises, it will lead to a lot of bad blood between healers and the rest of the party, resulting in the healer population taking a nosedive due to not wanting to handle the pressure. If a tank dies, you can often pick him up and everything can get back to normal somewhat. If a DPS dies, same thing. If a healer dies, group wipe. That is not a good formula for keeping healers playing healers, and you'd see queues even worse than they are now. Then you'd see so many threads going "Why does nobody want to play healer?" again.

If you really want to make healer role more essential, the easiest method would be to nerf the healing on tanks (specifically PLD and WAR), and start making more attacks where the damage dealt is a flat damage percentage that cannot be mitigated by any source. This forces actual flat healing requirements, and makes the healers mandatory because there's going to be a hell of a lot more danger for everybody else. Imagine boss raidwides that do 80% of your max HP and can't be mitigated at all, or some tankbusters that always do 90% of your max HP and can't be mitigated. Personally I'd prefer a return of the old days where bosses had less named tankbusters and just hit really hard with autos (think the P8S P2 tank soak autos), forcing an actual mitigation rotation on tanks.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If a healer dying once just results in a group wipe due to no other raises, it will lead to a lot of bad blood between healers and the rest of the party, resulting in the healer population taking a nosedive due to not wanting to handle the pressure. If a tank dies, you can often pick him up and everything can get back to normal somewhat. If a DPS dies, same thing. If a healer dies, group wipe. That is not a good formula for keeping healers playing healers, and you'd see queues even worse than they are now. Then you'd see so many threads going "Why does nobody want to play healer?" again.

If you really want to make healer role more essential, the easiest method would be to nerf the healing on tanks (specifically PLD and WAR), and start making more attacks where the damage dealt is a flat damage percentage that cannot be mitigated by any source. This forces actual flat healing requirements, and makes the healers mandatory because there's going to be a hell of a lot more danger for everybody else. Imagine boss raidwides that do 80% of your max HP and can't be mitigated at all, or some tankbusters that always do 90% of your max HP and can't be mitigated. Personally I'd prefer a return of the old days where bosses had less named tankbusters and just hit really hard with autos, forcing an actual mitigation rotation on tanks.

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They returned to that with EX6. And it was good. However, I wouldn't want raid-wides to be as exacerbated as in your example. If you think it's going to lead to bad blood, I think you're playing the wrong game because people know that you just simply need to try again. If you want to talk about pressure though, how about those 'new' tanks that get Tankxiety? There's always that fear of expectation. Healers are no different. People will get over it and try again in the same dungeon if they wipe and help each other if they can.

Here's a question I'd like to ask: What keeps Healers from playing Healers? Because it obviously isn't because of people given the community that's running here OUTSIDE of the Forums.

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Originally Posted by Tint

So essentially giving tanks the ability to raise. This would be completely broken. No thanks.

Not to mention that the healer role needs more reasons to exist, not less.

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PLD used to have raise.
It was ...fine tbh. Like it wasn't broken at all. If you think so, RDM would like to show you a thing or two.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

PLD used to have raise.
It was ...fine tbh. Like it wasn't broken at all. If you think so, RDM would like to show you a thing or two.

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Because PLD could not use it in battle. Battle raise on a role which basically cannot die in casual content will make the game even more braindead. You can recover nearly everything then.

Why havent people realized that the thread itself is just a huge meme, because of how useless and gutted healers are?

Well if we are tossing out healers we may as well toss out tanks. Everyone is responsible for themselves. If you go down...it's squarely on you.

Now EVERYONE is DPS role.

I'd like this even just for immersion's sake if nothing else. I always found it odd when I started playing XIV how useless items were in combat compared to the single player entries. And utilizing duty actions for regular dungeons would add some needed variety. The potion seems a bit much, maybe make the rez cooldown 3 minutes and potion 2 minutes to line up with other self heals. At that point you can just throw second wind in the bin, it has always sucked anyway and saves up a tiny bit of hotbar space.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Well if we are tossing out healers we may as well toss out tanks. Everyone is responsible for themselves. If you go down...it's squarely on you.

Now EVERYONE is DPS role.

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And how do you plan on doing that with a potion? Tweak the cooldowns a bit and this would not be in any way game breaking. Potions are a huge staple in the franchise and it's always been odd how worthless they are in this game.

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Originally Posted by Sheriyana

A Potions are a huge staple in the franchise and it's always been odd how worthless they are in this game.

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I don't know, man. Health pots have saved my ass plenty of times and tinctures are hugely important in end-game raiding. Plus, eye drops have niche uses like deep dunegon.

I dunno, those cd seem too long. Just drop it down to 30 seconds and 10 seconds and for set hp values. It's not like healers had a purpose beforehand anyways. Would give new life to the consumables

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Originally Posted by Sheriyana

And how do you plan on doing that with a potion? Tweak the cooldowns a bit and this would not be in any way game breaking. Potions are a huge staple in the franchise and it's always been odd how worthless they are in this game.

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I think in general it has to do with how slow and formulaic the combat system is. If it were more faster paced, with attacks and party wide aoes happening a lot more frequently like in WoW, then potion usage would be a lot more useful even if you have a healer. But they also need to rework healers to have more offense and having to manage MP more carefully in boss fights to compensate for the extra healing individual members use.

But you also have to balance it where its not a "requirement" for players to self-heal either. It be a tricky thing to balance and a lot of work on their end to revamp the combat to accommodate it imo but Ive been asking for a rework of it anyway so.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

I don't know, man. Health pots have saved my ass plenty of times and tinctures are hugely important in end-game raiding. Plus, eye drops have niche uses like deep dunegon.

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I can almost guarantee most people don't even carry potions, let alone use them. Hell I'm pretty sure they stopped adding new ones years ago. As for phoenix downs, the game does its best to make sure you never use them with how you can only carry one and all that. Healing items are completely worthless here compared to the single player entries in the series. In previous games you could even do cool stuff like kill undead with a phoenix down and hurt them with potions/healing. Here they just utilize that against players in extremely niche situations like the second boss of weeping city with the zombie status, and that's actually the only one I can think of. I'm not talking about tinctures, those are just a glorified lazy damage buff.

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Originally Posted by Sheriyana

I can almost guarantee most people don't even carry potions, let alone use them. Hell I'm pretty sure they stopped adding new ones years ago. As for phoenix downs, the game does its best to make sure you never use them with how you can only carry one and all that. Healing items are completely worthless here compared to the single player entries in the series. In previous games you could even do cool stuff like kill undead with a phoenix down and hurt them with potions/healing. Here they just utilize that against players in extremely niche situations like the second boss of weeping city with the zombie status, and that's actually the only one I can think of. I'm not talking about tinctures, those are just a glorified lazy damage buff.

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I mean this isn't a single-player FF game, so expecting it to work like one is a fatal flaw.

Yeah, you're right its been so long since they added new healing pots 6.3 was sooooo long ago....../s but they have their uses as pointed out its not their problem if you don't use them.

I thought it was always weird Phoenix downs couldn't be used in combat but in past FF games that was not the case.

No idea why they made it so could only carry one phoenix down and only able to use it out of combat. Was it like this in FFXI with phoenix downs. Nether potions or phoenix downs should have a cd ether since all other Final Fantasy games played never had them.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Well if we are tossing out healers we may as well toss out tanks. Everyone is responsible for themselves. If you go down...it's squarely on you.

Now EVERYONE is DPS role.

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That would fix the horrible job design and queues.

Tank/healer /dps scheme it's so outdated,limited and sucks everywhere in modern mmorpgs.