6.4: Dark throne review

Are FFXIV writers on drugs?

Thank you for your wise and compelling insights.

All that cash shop money has to go somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Are FFXIV writers on drugs?

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Could you elaborate on that? I loved the story. Amazing patch as always.

The Dark Throne? More like the Dark Padding, am I right fellas?
Jesus christ.

I think the structure of the patch (1 dungeon, 1 trial) is really hurting the storytelling.

6.1 was ok, it's job was to relaunch a new story after the epic conclusion of EW vanilla. I was really hyped when I realised they were gonna explain where was the last of the first brood. It's not remarkable, but it did the job : create expectation for what was coming.

6.2 was good. It introduced Zero, The Golbez team, and the two Golbez generals were well buildt, and both the dungeon and the trial had stakes.

6.3 was a deception. It's the anti thesis of 6.2. The whole first part didn't make the story progress at all. It felt like the Twins were shoehorned in the story. The two generals were not build, which made their fight forgetable. It's shame because Rubicante had a nice design. At the end of the patch, you sure have defeated 2 more generals, but for the rest... the story of saving Azdaja didn't progress at all. We're at the same point than at the end of 6.2. That's were you begin to feel the structure hurt the story.

6.4 made me angry. You have a first part that is useless to the story told. I feel "getting fuel and autorisations" is not a good enough justification to spend 2h30 going here and there and not progressing in the main story of the patch. Instead we have several side stories that are not developped enough to be satisfying. Wrost things is : none of those elements are bad per se, but the time they take compared to Azdaja/Golbez plotline is too long. To me it felt like stalling before getting to the part we all knew was coming. And when we got there,it abruptly cut because "there cannot be 2 trials in a patch". It's fair in term of structure, but in term of climax, it's awful. You just cut it in two, which feels very disatisfying. Especially since we know we will have to get another dungeon that will probably have no real importance before we can get the the real thing, because it's the structure.

I also feel the whole "ho no, our talisman don't work anymore, let's retreat" is too convenient. It screams "patch is done, come back in four month". Something I never felt during ShB patches, or even early EW ones. First of all, the WoL doesn't need it, and it feels so out of character to leave without even trying anything. There was other ways to deal with that. Being pushed back or something.

That story was just not written to last this long. We just got two patch that delayed the story with different subterfuges, and when we finally get to it, it abruptly ends because it's next patch trial. I would have liked the story to be written another way. I don't know what happened between 6.2 and 6.3, but something seems to have happened. I have difficulties to believe the guys that wrote this are the same that wrote EW.

3/4 of this patch MSQ felt like filler.

6.1 and 6.2 went full gear into the new story but it feels like they ran out of steam and things to write and just tried to stall as much as possible...
Not happy with the direction the MSQ took for 6.4 either, it's a massive let down to have the MSQ filled with a lot of "joke filler" after we got Shadowbringer which only had a weaker 5.1.

I'm sorry, but a glistening and sweaty Estinian will never be filler. Women all over reddit are beside themselves as I type this lol.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

3/4 of this patch MSQ felt like filler.

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That's because whole 6.X story is just a filler with yet another 20+ years old FF cameo. This is a problem since EW doesn't even have dedicated trial storyline this time, no storyline for relics and/or explorable zone either. Pandaemonium is only decent story left. I'm curious about opinions of hyper casuals who only play for a story.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm sorry, but a glistening and sweaty Estinian will never be filler. Women all over reddit are beside themselves as I type this lol.

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Let's just turn this game into softcore p*** because that's what it is anyways

The entire story revolves around fanservice of like 2385902835 different NPCs that degens fire their meaty cannons or valleys on before spending 1 second on the actual story

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Originally Posted by Deo14

That's because whole 6.X story is just a filler with yet another 20+ years old FF cameo. This is a problem since EW doesn't even have dedicated trial storyline this time, no storyline for relics and/or explorable zone either. Pandaemonium is only decent story left. I'm curious about opinions of hyper casuals who only play for a story.

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I would say this patch was even worst. Felt like filler of a filler arc. So much time wasted on fan service/comedy and barely any spent on the actual story. And the actual story bits for the most part, were quite predictable.
It's honestly a good thing I don't play this game mainly for the story anymore cuz I would be gone after this ew story.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

Let's just turn this game into softcore p*** because that's what it is anyways

The entire story revolves around fanservice of like 2385902835 different NPCs that degens fire their meaty cannons or valleys on before spending 1 second on the actual story

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This games community is a good example of what 24/7 instant unrestricted access to p*rn did to a whole generation

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Are FFXIV writers on drugs?

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Don't care, doesn't matter. A ton of people like this patch. FFXIV is widely considered to be the best MMO right now and one of the best JRPGs of all time. Nearly everyone has been happy and is having fun watching cutscenes about curry and people looking straight at the wall. We in the FFXIV community should support the brave and hard-working developers who work night and day to give us this wonderful cutscene--I mean game--for the price of a sandwich (panini) (extra avocado). In fact, I wish I could tip the developers just to show my gratitude.

Oh, and by the way? Zero is awesome. She's cool, just like me. Learn to be like Zero, will you?

https://files.catbox.moe/jvybrp.gif

I believe this thread is over. The people have spoken. NEXT!

I think seeing that one trial mob during the Live Letter gave me some hope that we were going to be wrapping up the whole Void/Azdaja thing in this patch, with Golbez as the last obstacle, before setting something up in the 6.5 series to lead up more to whatever the expansion will be. Welp..

I understand they want to hit all the FFIV beats, and Zeromus was an inevitability, I guess, but I'm just exhausted of this story. It really feels needlessly drawn out, to the point where I was just kind of annoyed when we saw Golbez turn Azdaja in front of us, like "Great.. glad this was built up over a year", rather than being invested, motivated, or upset by it.

I was much more intrigued by little details like Erenville's hint of an expedition and 'homecoming', the letter Krile kept glancing at, Thancred and Urianger's hints at there being a need for Archons for something... I guess because it's hinting at new things, and hopefully an end to this whole Thirteenth business.

I really hope Fan Fest can bring some excitement back, cause this has been the most disconnected I've been from the MSQ in ages, and I'm someone who has liked-to-loved most of the story up to and including 6.0.

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Originally Posted by Mainasu

I think seeing that one trial mob during the Live Letter gave me some hope that we were going to be wrapping up the whole Void/Azdaja thing in this patch, with Golbez as the last obstacle, before setting something up in the 6.5 series to lead up more to whatever the expansion will be. Welp..

I understand they want to hit all the FFIV beats, and Zeromus was an inevitability, I guess, but I'm just exhausted of this story. It really feels needlessly drawn out, to the point where I was just kind of annoyed when we saw Golbez turn Azdaja in front of us, like "Great.. glad this was built up over a year", rather than being invested, motivated, or upset by it.

I was much more intrigued by little details like Erenville's hint of an expedition and 'homecoming', the letter Krile kept glancing at, Thancred and Urianger's hints at there being a need for Archons for something... I guess because it's hinting at new things, and hopefully an end to this whole Thirteenth business.

I really hope Fan Fest can bring some excitement back, cause this has been the most disconnected I've been from the MSQ in ages, and I'm someone who has liked-to-loved most of the story up to and including 6.0.

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Exactly that (except I felt anger when I saw they were really going for Zeromus). Not that the story by itself is bad. I've been wanting to know about the last first brood for a long time. But there are so much things that are not the whole Azdaja Golbez storyline it's tiring. When the storyline actually come you're just frustrated/bored there is so few of it.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Don't care, doesn't matter. A ton of people like this patch. FFXIV is widely considered to be the best MMO right now and one of the best JRPGs of all time. Nearly everyone has been happy and is having fun watching cutscenes about curry and people looking straight at the wall. We in the FFXIV community should support the brave and hard-working developers who work night and day to give us this wonderful cutscene--I mean game--for the price of a sandwich (panini) (extra avocado). In fact, I wish I could tip the developers just to show my gratitude.

Oh, and by the way? Zero is awesome. She's cool, just like me. Learn to be like Zero, will you?

https://files.catbox.moe/jvybrp.gif

I believe this thread is over. The people have spoken. NEXT!

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True and good post, Macchi.

Minor point, but is it just me, or does Urianger sound different this patch? Could just be the migraine talking, but he sounds off.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Minor point, but is it just me, or does Urianger sound different this patch? Could just be the migraine talking, but he sounds off.

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At the start of the MSQ, some voices seem a little off. Had the same with Estinien too.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

I think the structure of the patch (1 dungeon, 1 trial) is really hurting the storytelling.

6.1 was ok, it's job was to relaunch a new story after the epic conclusion of EW vanilla. I was really hyped when I realised they were gonna explain where was the last of the first brood. It's not remarkable, but it did the job : create expectation for what was coming.

6.2 was good. It introduced Zero, The Golbez team, and the two Golbez generals were well buildt, and both the dungeon and the trial had stakes.

6.3 was a deception. It's the anti thesis of 6.2. The whole first part didn't make the story progress at all. It felt like the Twins were shoehorned in the story. The two generals were not build, which made their fight forgetable. It's shame because Rubicante had a nice design. At the end of the patch, you sure have defeated 2 more generals, but for the rest... the story of saving Azdaja didn't progress at all. We're at the same point than at the end of 6.2. That's were you begin to feel the structure hurt the story.

6.4 made me angry. You have a first part that is useless to the story told. I feel "getting fuel and autorisations" is not a good enough justification to spend 2h30 going here and there and not progressing in the main story of the patch. Instead we have several side stories that are not developped enough to be satisfying. Wrost things is : none of those elements are bad per se, but the time they take compared to Azdaja/Golbez plotline is too long. To me it felt like stalling before getting to the part we all knew was coming. And when we got there,it abruptly cut because "there cannot be 2 trials in a patch". It's fair in term of structure, but in term of climax, it's awful. You just cut it in two, which feels very disatisfying. Especially since we know we will have to get another dungeon that will probably have no real importance before we can get the the real thing, because it's the structure.

I also feel the whole "ho no, our talisman don't work anymore, let's retreat" is too convenient. It screams "patch is done, come back in four month". Something I never felt during ShB patches, or even early EW ones. First of all, the WoL doesn't need it, and it feels so out of character to leave without even trying anything. There was other ways to deal with that. Being pushed back or something.

That story was just not written to last this long. We just got two patch that delayed the story with different subterfuges, and when we finally get to it, it abruptly ends because it's next patch trial. I would have liked the story to be written another way. I don't know what happened between 6.2 and 6.3, but something seems to have happened. I have difficulties to believe the guy that wrote this are the same that wrote EW.

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the next patch is going to be the climax of it all what are you complaining about?
there was a long drought with no content at all during stormblood after everything was concluded I am guessing by having it padded like this adds more time to stretch out certain content

6.5 is going to be the last patch for this expansion where most of the story content will be finishing everything that has been going on and starting the new story for the coming expansion

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm sorry, but a glistening and sweaty Estinian will never be filler. Women all over reddit are beside themselves as I type this lol.

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Man, shut up.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Man, shut up.

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Can't handle the reality huh? Because it's true that his sweats are the plots all along. :)

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Man, shut up.

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You seem triggered. As honored as I am that this is the post you felt compelled to respond to after a month is mine, I recommend blocking me. Because I’m going to be here as much as I like.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Triggered? Brother, I felt embarrassed for you. How a grown man can spout that amount of cringe is just insane.

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I have more where that came from.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You seem triggered. As honored as I am that this is the post you felt compelled to respond to after a month is mine, I recommend blocking me. Because I’m going to be here as much as I like.

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Triggered? Brother, I felt embarrassed for you. How a grown man can spout that amount of cringe is just insane.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Minor point, but is it just me, or does Urianger sound different this patch? Could just be the migraine talking, but he sounds off.

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I thought I was going crazy but yup, he definitely sounded different to me too

I was hoping the void story would finally be over with, but nope, they're really gonna drag it out all the way until 7.x so we have basically no actual build-up to the expansion.

The only "hint of what's to come" I noticed was the Scions having their presence requested in foreign lands which is too vague to really get excited about.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I was hoping the void story would finally be over with, but nope, they're really gonna drag it out all the way until 7.x so we have basically no actual build-up to the expansion.

The only "hint of what's to come" I noticed was the Scions having their presence requested in foreign lands which is too vague to really get excited about.

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Maybe the Scions will go to a foreign land and the WoL can go on their own adventure somewhere else for an expansion?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I was hoping the void story would finally be over with, but nope, they're really gonna drag it out all the way until 7.x so we have basically no actual build-up to the expansion.

The only "hint of what's to come" I noticed was the Scions having their presence requested in foreign lands which is too vague to really get excited about.

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I have to assume the build up has started in some way, which is..concerning.

I am playing what is supposed to be a high fantasy game, but there is very little adventuring to be had. It's mostly people standing around talking and espousing empty platitudes. What little actual adventuring there is, it's just not enough. Need more combat. Need new zones to visit. Story is painfully predictable. Needs tension.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

I am playing what is supposed to be a high fantasy game, but there is very little adventuring to be had. It's mostly people standing around talking and espousing empty platitudes. What little actual adventuring there is, it's just not enough. Need more combat. Need new zones to visit. Story is painfully predictable. Needs tension.

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Damn I wasn't aware Final Fantasy had to be hard stuck to a single genre.

This whole void filler arc feels like a story that would usually take 2 patches to resolve stretched out to encompass the entirety of post-EW. It's overstayed its welcome and I just want to be done with it already.

Not a great start for a community topic about this patch, but nonetheless.

I thought the whole patch was pretty solid, so that is a positive. I noticed some people here though that certain story beats seemed to either fly over people's heads or felt it could have been little different, but honestly story-writing is subjective, and this is the way they wanted to convey certain things that were going on in this patch.

Now negatively I felt once again the patch content was too short, and we're back on the grinding weekly wheel again.

Not a good look honestly not that the developers actually care what I have to say about it or anyone else, its just the way they want to do their patch cycle. I'm starting to think they don't have much people on their staff if its four months of this each time.

Oh wow since when did Kotaku decided to join the forums?

In terms of content, Ive already expected what we got so I was left satisfied with both msq and the last raid tier.

Also glad the whole Zeromus theory didnt pan out as we all thought it would. At least they didnt make it THAT predictable.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Are FFXIV writers on drugs?

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Well...

...I was expecting something. Anything, really. This...was not even that.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Now negatively I felt once again the patch content was too short, and we're back on the grinding weekly wheel again.

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I will say I somewhat agree with your post, and this part in particular. I was thinking near the end that it would be nice if they had the MSQ a little longer and broke it up into the X.Y and X.Y5 instead of all the X.Y. It would need to be longer to do this, though, but when I got to the end and they were talking about how they'd make haste to work out a solution, I mentally said to myself "...which should take about 4 months."

Would be nice if we had a little nudge more on story in the X.Y5 patches - even if it wasn't a lot, just a "So here's where our efforts are, can you help us out with this little thing? Okay cool, we're still moving forward, but it'll be a bit longer before preparations are complete."

The only time they do this is in the X.5 and X.55 patches, and that almost always feels better. Especially now that patches are 2 weeks longer.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Oh wow since when did Kotaku decided to join the forums?

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I never thought I'd say this..... But this comparison is far from fair. To Kotaku.

I don't always enjoy what they have to say, but at least they have something to say. This..... thread? Why is it even here?

Way too much people standing around talking with no tension aside from the garland plot point. Moon segment was but too short then lost its momentum after. The need balance story and gameplay a bit
Better. I was disappointed we only got 1 dungeon. They could have given us 2 dungeons to break up the monotony. At this point it just feels like I'm watching a visual novel. The raids are fun, cool. But I feel msq wise, there were some shortcomings.

6.4 I absolutely like it... it takes the story in another direction, which is nice... getting away from all the Ascians is what confuses people, so please?

Really something big on the move.

Well, let's see:

MSQ: Enjoyed it much more this time than in 6.3, loved that red moon and the music in there.
Dungeon: Very pretty dungeon, love that arrangement of Old Sharlayan theme in there
Trial: It felt too easy or it felt like it wasn't complete. I still have to do the Extreme trial of it to see how good that fight it.
Raids: Honestly gave quite the challenge wiped few times, and I loved those, it was great fun. I will be trying the Savage.

Island Sanctuary is getting more love, hopefully they keep building up on it. Other improvements are also great (bigger range on buffs is awesome), especially the visibility for people's jobs/roles. Wish they had added that back in Shb during Bozja because that place is always a death fest lol.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

I never thought I'd say this..... But this comparison is far from fair. To Kotaku.

I don't always enjoy what they have to say, but at least they have something to say. This..... thread? Why is it even here?

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Yeah I dont think spouting baseless nonsense isnt exactly "something to say"

Have to say, whilst I don't particularly dislike the new portions of the MSQ, it did seem a little drawn out.

And, with regards to the current conclusion:

I'll confess it annoyed me - I mean, I know there is probably some justification for it in terms of maintaining story progression... but two tropes came into play, which I found really irritating.
The first one was the classic 'Evil Gloating' trope. I mean, Golbez was on his knees, Azdaja - whilst still corrupted - was free of her cage and his control. His weapon had dissolved. Great! So what do we do? We let Golbez monologue at us. :rolleyes:
Sorry - we should have booted his sorry ass down the abyss. Yeah, I guess that wouldn't work in terms of keeping the story going but I'm a little tired of this trope - a trope that Disney's 'The Incredibles' outright mocked - being used like this.
To be honest, it felt like a damn turn-based RPG game situation.

The second really ties into the first - the victory fakeout. Where it looks as if we've won but said assumed victory is snatched away (in this case, at least in part, because we decided that standing around listening to Golbez monologue at us was a good idea) and the situation takes a turn for the worst to the point of "oh no - we're powerless against this threat that we totally could've prevented! Run away, back to the Source!"
Run away. Again. No doubt so another convoluted contingency plan can be made.

I've loved the MSQ to this point, and being critical of it doesn't really feel overly natural but the tropes they employed really didn't hit the right notes with me and, for the first time, I actually reached the (current) endpoint of the MSQ and haven't immediately wanted to discuss how great it was with my friends, because overall... I actually felt pretty deflated.