The Purpose of the Healer Role Subforum

As stated in the sticky at the top: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ealer-Roles%21

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Welcome to Forum: Healer Roles!

The purpose of this forum is for players to hold discussions on Healer roles and its tactics with other players.

Please take time to read the following rules and the FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum Guidelines(North America/UK) before you post or start a discussion.

General Forum Rules:
Please refer to the following thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/63104

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I guess it's proof that neither Devs nor Mods come here, considering 99% of the posts here are...not those things, interestingly enough.

...not that anyone should doubt at this point that mods don't come here, lol

https://i.gyazo.com/e02061bdb416796d...5f6f53d508.png

Please, point which of the following posts its not about "Healer roles and its tactics", because I only see 2 and are started by the same person

Yeah, I saw that. All I can think of is cancer and essays.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

As stated in the sticky at the top: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ealer-Roles%21



I guess it's proof that neither Devs nor Mods come here, considering 99% of the posts here are...not those things, interestingly enough.

...not that anyone should doubt at this point that mods don't come here, lol

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I'm going to have to ask you to make your subtext a bit bigger because I cannot read it.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Please, point which of the following posts its not about "Healer roles and its tactics", because I only see 2 and are started by the same person

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Nice attempted gotcha, but "Healer roles and its tactics".

8 of those are about changing Healer Jobs and proposals to that end, not about the role or tactics.
2 are about changes that should be implemented in-game to help with players learning the role (so debatably on topic)
2 are about the history of the Healer role in context of fights (one specifically about the tactics used) (so debatably on topic)
1 is asking for tactics to deal with an encounter (so on topic)
1 is a meta discussion about the Healer role in the context of party composition (so debatably on topic)
1 is gathering (or attempting to gather) positive feedback about the role in general (so on topic)
1 is about the point of the subform per the sticky (so debatably on topic since the sticky can't be replied to but should be considered valid to discuss)

Oh, and the bulk of the ones that are on or debatably on topic were started by the same person, yes.

(I could mention something here about my post in General applying, but...I'll let it slide.)

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Nice attempted gotcha, but "Healer roles and its tactics".

8 of those are about changing Healer Jobs and proposals to that end, not about the role or tactics.

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That is a talk about the role since the jobs are an extension of it. These are probably the most on topic of all as they serve the main pupose of the forums. In fact quoting the game itself https://i.gyazo.com/97ef31a5c3c9fc6d...08ed219b0e.png

Proposals (or in other words, suggestions) are on topic

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2 are about changes that should be implemented in-game to help with players learning the role (so debatably on topic)

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On topic

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2 are about the history of the Healer role in context of fights (one specifically about the tactics used) (so debatably on topic)

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Less focused but on topic

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1 is asking for tactics to deal with an encounter (so on topic)

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Indeed

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1 is a meta discussion about the Healer role in the context of party composition (so debatably on topic)

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META=Most Effective Tactic Avaliable, its on topic

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1 is gathering (or attempting to gather) positive feedback about the role in general (so on topic)

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Yes, the focus is the healers after all

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1 is about the point of the subform per the sticky (so debatably on topic since the sticky can't be replied to but should be considered valid to discuss)

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More debatably but, ok let say its on topic.

So... where is the 99% of the posts that are not on topic?

I don't see "Renathras's personal echo chamber" in that description.

People in here disagree with you on a lot of healer design topics. All of your Gish Galloping, topic-swapping, and attempts to twist semantics into pretzels to make yourself correct by default (like this thread, imagine that! People disagree with you, so now you've decided that threads talking about healer class design changes don't actually fit in the subforum's precisely defined topic definition, haha so there, you win.) doesn't change that. Falling back on passive-aggressively insulting people here, telling people who have healed for a DECADE now that they're "actually supports" and should go play Bard or something, then recoiling and running off to General Discussion and Reddit and wailing that this place is "toxic" when people take exception to your dictating what THEIR preferred role is, is also not "healer discussion".

Cut it out.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

People in here disagree with you on a lot of healer design topics.

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Your word salad rant aside, that's for a different reason.

"YOU KNOW WHAT? YES!"

Also MY GOD are you a 1950s drive in theater? Because the amount of projection in that post is EPIC.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

So... where is the 99% of the posts that are not on topic?

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Quick question for you:

Do you know the difference between "posts" and "threads", by chance?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Quick question for you:

Do you know the difference between "posts" and "threads", by chance?

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Yes, I use the threads because they are also posts made by the players and its a more neutral way to showcase that the "99%" is plain false, you could in fact open almost any thread in the healer forum and you'll find much more on topic arguments that things out of topic (which usually happen because misinformation)

Now I repeat my question, where is that 99% of out of topic posts?

Lil bro really got tired of farming likes on general discussion and came back to the healer forums to continue getting folded like yesterday's laundry.

Wild.

While I enjoyed the expression 'folded like yesterdays laundry', I find it hard to believe he was farming likes anywhere, I think the highest liked post I've seen from him is like, a 4

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

While I enjoyed the expression 'folded like yesterdays laundry', I find it hard to believe he was farming likes anywhere, I think the highest liked post I've seen from him is like, a 4

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A broken clock is right twice a day, as they say.

Healer forums are filled with: hate and entitlement.
It's impossible to have a genuine discussion here,
because people think discussion is all about winning.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Yes, I use the threads because they are also posts made by the players and its a more neutral way to showcase that the "99%" is plain false, you could in fact open almost any thread in the healer forum and you'll find much more on topic arguments that things out of topic (which usually happen because misinformation)

Now I repeat my question, where is that 99% of out of topic posts?

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Riiiight.

The posts IN the threads.

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So you know, I have no ulterior motive with this post. I just found it kind of amusing how most topics often don't seem to actually suit it, nor do many posts within them. "dream Job changes" are arguably NOT part of it, nor are class ideas from other games or similar things. Nor are quite a few other things. I just found it kind of amusing is all. That and it's pretty highly likely mods don't ever come in here.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Lil bro really got tired of farming likes on general discussion and came back to the healer forums to continue getting folded like yesterday's laundry.

Wild.

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lol, you guys are obsessed with likes, aren't ya?

It'd be funny if you guys actually were "folding" anyone. All you've done, collectively, is prove what people say about this subforum correct. And instead of having the wherewithal to realize that, you smugly take dogpiling on people as a point of pride rather than rightly being ashamed of it. Which is even more sad by the fact you don't even succeed at it except in your own minds...

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

While I enjoyed the expression 'folded like yesterdays laundry', I find it hard to believe he was farming likes anywhere, I think the highest liked post I've seen from him is like, a 4

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As I've said before, internet Likes are the worst metric possible to judge whether something is valuable or correct or not. I wouldn't bother farming the things considering I believe they're worthless. Though so you know, more than 4. (My drawing of Zero as a Hecteye got at least that, lol)

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

Healer forums are filled with: hate and entitlement.
It's impossible to have a genuine discussion here,
because people think discussion is all about winning.

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Exactly right.

Though I think if more people like you were in here, it might change. It just takes a wave of non-toxic people to actually come in together and stick around. The problem is, non-toxic people only seem to come in 1s or 2s to this area, so they can get ganged up on and run off before they can collect. Then the denizens here throw a victory party about how they're the majority here - because of course they are, when they run everyone else off. XD

Discussions are great, though. If you've any ideas or contributions to them here, feel free to throw in. Who knows, maybe you can be what breaks the toxicity. Never know, anyway. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Renathras

"dream Job changes" are arguably NOT part of it, nor are class ideas from other games or similar things. Nor are quite a few other things. I just found it kind of amusing is all. That and it's pretty highly likely mods don't ever come in here.

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They are tough, quoting the game itself again https://i.gyazo.com/97ef31a5c3c9fc6d...08ed219b0e.png

Those "dream job changes" fall under suggestions, same with ideas from other games etc.

What are those few things you talk about tough? Because they must be many if they are 99% of the posts

I believe it is time to stop replying.

SE kind of set the bar themselves when the EN forum reps started banning theorycrafters from here circa late ARR to early HW.

Kind of want ppl to not think crazy on the idea that healers need to go over the top of what abilities should be in the game because 90% chance the devs will not take it seriously. So you just have pages of nonsense that ends up in 1k paragraphs a post. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Was expecting just stick to the abilities at hand and just slight improvements that the devs can logically get by. Nope, that wasn’t the case. So…….I mean, it gotten nowhere very quick.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Kind of want ppl to not think crazy on the idea that healers need to go over the top of what abilities should be in the game because 90% chance the devs will not take it seriously. So you just have pages of nonsense that ends up in 1k paragraphs a post. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Was expecting just stick to the abilities at hand and just slight improvements that the devs can logically get by. Nope, that wasn’t the case. So…….I mean, it gotten nowhere very quick.

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More or less this.

They aren't discussions of the role, and they aren't discussions of tactics (the two things for this forum). Note that this picture:

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

https://i.gyazo.com/97ef31a5c3c9fc6d...08ed219b0e.png

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Is not posted in this subforum.

Indeed, even note what it says itself:

"...can be posted on the official FFXIV General Discussion forums."

Note that it does not say "Healer Role forum". (We're splitting hairs now, mind you, but if that's what you're going to hang your hat on: You can't.)

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In the end, many of the discussions here aren't feedback. A lot are back and forths between people who like Healers and those who do not, suggestions for completely upending the role itself (rather than discussions of the role), wild ideas for completely changing the role from what it is (which isn't really "feedback" in many of the cases), and attacking anyone who doesn't share a negative view for the current state of healers, who promotes or provides positive feedback on the current state of healers, or who makes their own suggestions on Healer Jobs that are "too small" (to those seeking big changes) or positive feedback/support for the current status quo.

Observing some posts myself, a lot of the healer ideas do sound good in their own way. Although, there are a couple problems I am seeing so far. We probably have too many ideas that take every class into different directions. We need to present a more unified template of ideas so it can actually become a reality. So far, I have only noticed a survey generally asking for more DPS buttons being confirmed. We also have posts that say simply adding back single buttons like Aero 3 and Shadowflare isn't good enough ... However, I only noticed enough survey data to believe that fulfills adding more DPS buttons >.> Perhaps our next step should be to have survey votes on which template of healing and DPS we should choose for each. It's a long shot, but that looks like the next step.

As for the like metric, I find there to be a few reasons. Some of my experience is from the WoW forums, so there might be some variance in other areas.

- Faction War Votes. It is more unlikely for someone to upvote a post if it was made by someone they don't like regardless of it being true or false. The arguments can get so heated that some neutral parties may be forcefully dragged into one side with cherry-picked words triggering someone.
- The post is very brief. When a lot of points are discussed, a post may have half agreement and half disagreement. The readers also have different degrees of patience compared to others. If there is literally one sentence, it is much easier to agree or disagree with the point. Sometimes this is a shame since we occasionally need more detailed points to support the post with facts.
- The post made the reader laugh. Humor is long sought after for the forums since we only have so much time in our day to read. It sometimes becomes a form of entertainment if we enjoy enough humor from it.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Observing some posts myself, a lot of the healer ideas do sound good in their own way. Although, there are a couple problems I am seeing so far. We probably have too many ideas that take every class into different directions. We need to present a more unified template of ideas so it can actually become a reality. So far, I have only noticed a survey generally asking for more DPS buttons being confirmed. We also have posts that say simply adding back single buttons like Aero 3 and Shadowflare isn't good enough ... However, I only noticed enough survey data to believe that fulfills adding more DPS buttons >.> Perhaps our next step should be to have survey votes on which template of healing and DPS we should choose for each. It's a long shot, but that looks like the next step.

As for the like metric, I find there to be a few reasons. Some of my experience is from the WoW forums, so there might be some variance in other areas.

- Faction War Votes. It is more unlikely for someone to upvote a post if it was made by someone they don't like regardless of it being true or false. The arguments can get so heated that some neutral parties may be forcefully dragged into one side with cherry-picked words triggering someone.
- The post is very brief. When a lot of points are discussed, a post may have half agreement and half disagreement. The readers also have different degrees of patience compared to others. If there is literally one sentence, it is much easier to agree or disagree with the point. Sometimes this is a shame since we occasionally need more detailed points to support the post with facts.
- The post made the reader laugh. Humor is long sought after for the forums since we only have so much time in our day to read. It sometimes becomes a form of entertainment if we enjoy enough humor from it.

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I think I agree with you on pretty much all of this, Tigore.

And in service to the latter (not for likes, just for good vibes): Made this after someone in General said they'd like to see Zero as a Hecteye just because they thought it'd be funny. :)

https://i.imgur.com/etMkw3r.jpeg

I think my favorite of the replies in that thread was "All those eyes, they seem so sad. But that one on the right...that one has seen some things." lol