More in-depth tutorials for PvE job & PvP: yay or nay?

I've noticed that the RPR and SGE questlines try to explain the basic of their jobs better than the previous jobs questlines. If I remember correctly, SGE explain the utility of Kardia, shields... And RPR teaches about the importance of positionals, AoE, and Soul Gauge (I'm not sure if they talked about Death's Design.) I thought it was great! I still think they should explain other spells/ abilities/weaponskills... more in depth as well, but it's a great start!
I know the game gives advices whenever you unlock your Job Gauge, but I think having to play, and having NPCs telling you what you should do directly is better for people who are unfamiliar with the game

I don't recall anything like that in the previous and older jobs questlines- it seems to be more RP-ey and letting the player figuring out by themselves. Do you think it'd be a great idea to have what they did with RPR and SGE, but with the older jobs?

As for PvP, I've noticed a lot of people seems to be lost with Crystalline Conflict and Frontlines objectives. It's true that there are NPCs in Wolves' Den Pier that explain everything you need to know in these modes. But I feel like not a lot of people knows about it, and that's totally understandable. I've been wondering- would'nt it be interesting to have a fake match, with bots- akin to the Lord of Verminion tutorials (without having a gargantuan amount of tutorials.....)- to learn the basics? It would be required before playing with real players

This is not a troll post, hate post or anything, this is genuinesely something I was thinking, as I've noticed more people having trouble figuring out the core ability of their jobs.
I'd like to know what you guys are thinking, is it a good idea, or would it make feels like the game is holding the hand of the player too much?

I think when they're done with Duty Support if possible it would be fantastic to go back and redo some of the Job Quests a bit to have those solo instances that serve as tutorials. I loved both SGE and RPR for that.

Yay 100%. At the absolute least they need to update hall of the novice. I mean the DPS HOTN teaches about accuracy. Ya know, that stat that was removed 6 years ago.

Been replaying the game on an alt and I'm at the 50 of Ninja and the tutorial of it is OK...till 45. When you unlock your final mudra ( which opens up a large chunk of your mudra abilities ) they are like ok it does this, this, and this OK LET'S GOOOO!

The ones before it they put you in a training scenario to actually use them.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Yay 100%. At the absolute least they need to update hall of the novice. I mean the DPS HOTN teaches about accuracy. Ya know, that stat that was removed 6 years ago.

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It does? I don't remember Hall of the Novice ever saying anything at all about Accuracy. Or any other of our stats for that matter.

Class and Job Quests have always done this. The conjurer quests teach you about Cure, the Astrologian quests teach you about cards and there are many jobs that require you to attack things with certain attacks. All the Heavensward job quests tried to explain the new abilities in the lore and designed the quest around the ability, so that it makes sense why you learn that ability from it. Eventually, SE became tired of the effort required to design story around abilities, especially with the 20 jobs we have now and how most people put off alt job quests until max level anyway.

Many of the abilities that you learn in these quests have changed a lot over the years or even been removed, requiring a quest change. SE doesn't want to keep updating old content because it is important to focus on the new content which makes players resubscribe. And that is why they can't make Hall of the Novice more sophisticated.

I do want to point out that the role quests involve using your abilities though. I had to actually heal on a healer and the NPCs nearly died if I just tried to DPS like in dungeons, I had to actually use interrupt on a tank, I had to actually do mechanics on a DPS instead of falling asleep.

People have always been clueless in PvP. Nothing is going to make them not clueless unless it doesn't have objectives. Killing the enemy is an obvious task. Objectives usually are not obvious enough.

In an ideal world where they actually invest in FF14 yes, but I'm going to say no because I seriously want them to stop sinking all dev time into """"revamping"""" old content

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Class and Job Quests have always done this. The conjurer quests teach you about Cure, the Astrologian quests teach you about cards and there are many jobs that require you to attack things with certain attacks. All the Heavensward job quests tried to explain the new abilities in the lore and designed the quest around the ability, so that it makes sense why you learn that ability from it. Eventually, SE became tired of the effort required to design story around abilities, especially with the 20 jobs we have now and how most people put off alt job quests until max level anyway.

Many of the abilities that you learn in these quests have changed a lot over the years or even been removed, requiring a quest change. SE doesn't want to keep updating old content because it is important to focus on the new content which makes players resubscribe. And that is why they can't make Hall of the Novice more sophisticated.

I do want to point out that the role quests involve using your abilities though. I had to actually heal on a healer and the NPCs nearly died if I just tried to DPS like in dungeons, I had to actually use interrupt on a tank, I had to actually do mechanics on a DPS instead of falling asleep.

People have always been clueless in PvP. Nothing is going to make them not clueless unless it doesn't have objectives. Killing the enemy is an obvious task. Objectives usually are not obvious enough.

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That's why I was thinking about something more in depth, like those RPR and SGE quests. I feel like they try to explain the jobs better than the previous questlines. It's true some quests tells you to hit things with certains actions, I remember NIN doing this. But I feel like having to play in an solo Duty, and having the game telling you to hit more of your buttons, multiple times, to progress was rather nice, but it might be a personal preference!

As for PvP...I don't really agree, let's take Crystalline Conflict for example: Pushing the crystal is the only way to win. However, I've seen plenty of people being frustrated because their teammates would be more focused on killing the enemies rather than pushing the crystal, because like you said, killing enemies is an obvious objective. That's why I think, a match with bots to learn the basics and telling the player 'the main objective is pushing the crystal!' might solve these problems..But I might be too optimistic...?

I know the game resources and dev time is limited, it was only something I was thinking about!

There are plenty of guides to get better at the game, Players have the entire internet at their disposal and still refuse to use them.

Putting it in game will not make a difference until player attitude changes.

Playing like shit is a personal choice, And that is perfectly fine because the game gives you no reason to actually get better unless you want to challenge yourself with harder content.

You'd have to update this every expansion. The hall of the Novice does mention accuracy. It's still in the game you just don't need to put any stuff into it. The game just expects you to keep an up to date weapon while you're leveling. As you'll see auto attacks and skills miss if you for instance try and kill a lv 20 mob with a lv 12 weapon. A few other examples of class/job quests trying to teach you is the lv15 gladiator where the npc used to constantly yell at you to use flash. Now it's total eclipse. Same with the lv40 Sch quest instead of leaches Alka Zolka asks you to use esuna. Arcanist probably could use a rework as it still has lines and plays that expect you to have a working topaz carbuncle. Rdm, DnC and GBN all try to teach you the basics of the job. I'm not sure why Sam just tosses you into the deep end. Seriously the old man could at least hint to things.

Everyone else in CC expects everyone else to be on the crystal or are too chicken to be on it while the entire other team is there wailing on the one person on your team that is on the crystal. Expecting people to know what to do in PVP I feel is sort of a lost cause. Unless you're playing in high tiered ranked or somehow got 9 other people together in order to play a custom match or two. Or you made a tournament.

I think it'd be a little unnecessary to amend (more detailed) tutorials to jobs attached to base classes, since there's a lot more room to learn those organically while leveling. But I do wish there was a little more guidance for jobs you unlock with fuller kits, as a kind of catch-up on the basics.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Been replaying the game on an alt and I'm at the 50 of Ninja and the tutorial of it is OK...till 45. When you unlock your final mudra ( which opens up a large chunk of your mudra abilities ) they are like ok it does this, this, and this OK LET'S GOOOO!

The ones before it they put you in a training scenario to actually use them.

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Yeah, the Ninja questline literally has you hit dummies your new abilities at the beginning.

The bit before the last couple of quests was more so due to Oboro rushing you in the story to prepare you for the upcoming fights. It's still better than hitting training dummies.

Anyways, as for the OP... I don't really see the benefit. It won't help most people unless you're going to handhold them through every detail of their job's abilities/skills.

They could update some of the job quest dialogue though. Some job quests make mention to old abilities/skills that were removed.

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Originally Posted by Wawaya

As for PvP...I don't really agree, let's take Crystalline Conflict for example: Pushing the crystal is the only way to win. However, I've seen plenty of people being frustrated because their teammates would be more focused on killing the enemies rather than pushing the crystal, because like you said, killing enemies is an obvious objective. That's why I think, a match with bots to learn the basics and telling the player 'the main objective is pushing the crystal!' might solve these problems..But I might be too optimistic...?

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The Feast was the most direct PvP I remember, because you actually just had to kill the other team and collect their medals. That's it. Crystalline Conflict replaced it, and although there is an objective, killing the other team is part of achieving it because if you don't, they will prevent you completing the objective.

The problem with The Feast was that it was not as popular as Crystalline Conflict. One of the problems was that it required 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS per team (8 people) and certain roles are notoriously rare in games like this (tanks and healers). The other problem was that the healer would keep everyone alive on either team for 10 minutes or more, until finally a death happened. If you were very lucky, then the healer was new and the match was over in a few seconds. Now it's capped at 5 minutes with occasional overtime. The other problem with The Feast was actually the reward structure, where only the top 100 got them, making a person think that since they won't be in the top 100, what is the point in doing this?

Crystalline Conflict is not otherwise much different than The Feast, yet oddly people's perception of PvP transformed from "PvP isn't good in this game" to "PvP has been overhauled and is really good now" because of the rebrand alone.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Crystalline Conflict is not otherwise much different than The Feast, yet oddly people's perception of PvP transformed from "PvP isn't good in this game" to "PvP has been overhauled and is really good now" because of the rebrand alone.

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I think it's down to nothing more than accessibility. What changes they made to the format just made the mode feel more accessible to the average player, and arguably more worth the effort, since the primary incentive is generally the rewards.

That said, I'd started playing just a few months before the overhaul dropped, and most of my PvP friends hated the change. I had to hear them complain about it for months lol. Meanwhile, as someone who doesn't particularly enjoy PvP either way, I felt the changes made my experience feel a lot more streamlined/intuitive. And CC itself just being a lot more bite-sized in both scale and time limit goes a long way too, as you said.

It is not really needed due to the jobs has been made much easier to play compared to 2.0 and 3.0