This game is on a terrible state right now.

This expansion has been really lackluster in terms of patches, there is literally nothing to do, and most of the stuff added is a joke.

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Originally Posted by Namuh

This expansion has been really lackluster in terms of patches, there is literally nothing to do, and most of the stuff added is a joke.

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Maybe just maybe if they had listened to those of us who rang the alarm bells back when they announced 4 month delays between patches, pointed out that beast tribes being delayed to .5 patches was unusual, that this relic grind is a joke not to mention the content its attached to, the story in the base game and in the patches is objectively the most controversial one seeing as how we've never had 800 page threads criticizing the story before, dead on arrival Criterion dungeons, the fact that we lost exploratory zones to island sanctuary...

...we'd have a decent expansion instead of one that has caused this much disappointment across all sectors of the playerbase.

It's always been like this. The "content" is socializing with people. If that's not for you, I suggest you try finding a new game or come back next patch.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

It's always been like this. The "content" is socializing with people. If that's not for you, I suggest you try finding a new game or come back next patch.

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No it wasn't like this in HW and SB. It's like you guys don't even remember doing content anymore.

Even back then, we'd still have nothing to do once we were done with the MSQ, finished Savage, and completed side content like beast tribe stuff.

If anything, there's more to do now thanks to the Ultimates. The vast majority of the "playerbase" still focus on the social aspects of the game.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...24/446/29c.gif

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Maybe just maybe if they had listened to those of us who rang the alarm bells back when they announced 4 month delays between patches, pointed out that beast tribes being delayed to .5 patches was unusual, that this relic grind is a joke not to mention the content its attached to, the story in the base game and in the patches is objectively the most controversial one seeing as how we've never had 800 page threads criticizing the story before, dead on arrival Criterion dungeons, the fact that we lost exploratory zones to island sanctuary...

...we'd have a decent expansion instead of one that has caused this much disappointment across all sectors of the playerbase.

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Yeah but the devs like it so who cares what anyone here thinks. Not memeing, they will not care until their jobs are at risk, this has never been more clear. And seeing as SE is too incompetent or worse, ignorant to notice a clearly sinking ship, I’m just going to be playing Nearer, My God, To Thee while I complete my first current Expert craft. They don’t care and neither should we. They’re the Japanese Valve except they still update the game they don’t play.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Maybe just maybe if they had listened to those of us who rang the alarm bells back when they announced 4 month delays between patches, pointed out that beast tribes being delayed to .5 patches was unusual, that this relic grind is a joke not to mention the content its attached to, the story in the base game and in the patches is objectively the most controversial one seeing as how we've never had 800 page threads criticizing the story before, dead on arrival Criterion dungeons, the fact that we lost exploratory zones to island sanctuary...

...we'd have a decent expansion instead of one that has caused this much disappointment across all sectors of the playerbase.

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"all sectors of the playerbase"?

The majority of people who play any game don't participate in online discussion on forums, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, Discord, etc. The silent super majority is a well known fact.

This is why the Devs of pretty much any game rarely actually make content in-line with what the online community says they want. Devs know the're not representative of the general playerbase and instead use metrics/data harvested directly from the game to see what most people playing the game want to do/are doing.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

It's always been like this. The "content" is socializing with people. If that's not for you, I suggest you try finding a new game or come back next patch.

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This guy's not entirely wrong, which is the saddest part. Several years ago back in heavensward, I had friends telling me to quit tera and come play XIV with them. I didn't, because I was hooked on that kMMO crackpipe, but eventually they all quit before stormblood came out, citing the content dripfeed model as their reason. They hated getting a small amount of content every 3 months. Now the shoe's on the other foot, and I'm playing XIV while they're playing other games, and none of them will return to XIV because in their mind the game's had slow content rollouts since at least hw. Hell, the famous "please quit my game" quote from Yoshi P was from years ago. It's not like Endwalker invented the dripfeed model. It just feels worse this time because they extended the waiting period from 3 months to 4. Maybe in 7.0, we'll have to wait 6 months for 6 hours of content.

That said, just saying "it's always been bad" doesn't excuse the fact that it's bad or preclude us from demanding better. But yeah, no, that precedent's been set for a while. And it's pathetic really, when you consider that there are free to play games with content or events to do every month. And it's particularly egregious when you compare expansions that gave us deep dungeons and exploratory zones while also rolling out the usual dungeon/alliance/8man/relicgrind setup all on a 3 month schedule (stormblood) to today's situation where the content we've gotten instead of exploratory zones (islands, variants) was kinda lacking in longterm replayability and it's left a lot of people bored or quitting until 6.4. In the end it won't matter though. 7.0 will see a resurgence in players; we probably won't even be able to log in when 7.0 launches, because all the tourists will be returning in droves. And that's the only metric anyone in charge will care about. When the number drops by literally 30% after a month, no one will even notice or care except the people whose friends lists have evaporated seemingly overnight, but to hell with those people. We already got their money.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

It's always been like this. The "content" is socializing with people. If that's not for you, I suggest you try finding a new game or come back next patch.

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Indeed, I enjoyed very much so talking to people in Eureka and Bozja. Which this expansion is lacking. Thank you for pointing that out.

This game has always been trash when it comes to retention. Everything is so fastly done due to the dribble of content between the frequent and consistent patches.

Anyone who calls the halcyon days of ARR and HW or SB is lying to do in order to push the blame on Shb and EW when really the fault lies in FFXIV's core content designs.

Its really that this game has always been like this.

i miss bozja and eureka, still go in there to piss around and make some money, neww deep is alright, but would like for more explore zones, or for open world to have more engaging fates like NM or engagments.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

i miss bozja and eureka, still go in there to piss around and make some money, neww deep is alright, but would like for more explore zones, or for open world to have more engaging fates like NM or engagments.

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I wouldn't even grant the Deep Dungeon that, it's little more than several copypasted assets stacked on top of each other with weapons I would never consider grinding for and a vehicle for Ishikawa to gush about Hermes more. While also throwing Arthurian legend away. Is there nothing she won't destroy after taking down most of the universe in base Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...24/446/29c.gif

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Based response. Marry me.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

i miss bozja and eureka, still go in there to piss around and make some money, neww deep is alright, but would like for more explore zones, or for open world to have more engaging fates like NM or engagments.

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Eureka and Bozja is absolute hot garbage though. Waiting around afk by the base for nms and engagements is not fun content.

Exploratory zones need to be better

Ahh, the head fanfiction writer is back. I guess he really can't quit, he just keeps coming back.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

This guy's not entirely wrong, which is the saddest part. Several years ago back in heavensward, I had friends telling me to quit tera and come play XIV with them. I didn't, because I was hooked on that kMMO crackpipe, but eventually they all quit before stormblood came out, citing the content dripfeed model as their reason. They hated getting a small amount of content every 3 months. Now the shoe's on the other foot, and I'm playing XIV while they're playing other games, and none of them will return to XIV because in their mind the game's had slow content rollouts since at least hw. Hell, the famous "please quit my game" quote from Yoshi P was from years ago. It's not like Endwalker invented the dripfeed model. It just feels worse this time because they extended the waiting period from 3 months to 4. Maybe in 7.0, we'll have to wait 6 months for 6 hours of content.

That said, just saying "it's always been bad" doesn't excuse the fact that it's bad or preclude us from demanding better. But yeah, no, that precedent's been set for a while. And it's pathetic really, when you consider that there are free to play games with content or events to do every month. And it's particularly egregious when you compare expansions that gave us deep dungeons and exploratory zones while also rolling out the usual dungeon/alliance/8man/relicgrind setup all on a 3 month schedule (stormblood) to today's situation where the content we've gotten instead of exploratory zones (islands, variants) was kinda lacking in longterm replayability and it's left a lot of people bored or quitting until 6.4. In the end it won't matter though. 7.0 will see a resurgence in players; we probably won't even be able to log in when 7.0 launches, because all the tourists will be returning in droves. And that's the only metric anyone in charge will care about. When the number drops by literally 30% after a month, no one will even notice or care except the people whose friends lists have evaporated seemingly overnight, but to hell with those people. We already got their money.

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There are also F2P games which don't produce content with anything like that sort of frequency. I came from one which managed to put out all of one new episode (worth about 45 minutes of play time) every five or so months. The remainder of the time they run wall-to-wall recycled 'events' with a FOMO carrot on a stick reward to pad their login metrics. And they put the items their players want most in gambleboxes or £250 bundles, which contain a stack of additional fluff to justify inflating the price.

Focusing most of their resources on cash shop items is exactly why they produce so little playable content.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

There are also F2P games which don't produce content with anything like that sort of frequency. I came from one which managed to put out all of one new episode (worth about 45 minutes of play time) every five or so months. The remainder of the time they run wall-to-wall recycled 'events' with a FOMO carrot on a stick reward to pad their login metrics. And they put the items their players want most in gambleboxes or £250 bundles, which contain a stack of additional fluff to justify inflating the price.

Focusing most of their resources on cash shop items is exactly why they produce so little playable content.

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Were they critically acclaimed tho?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

There are also F2P games which don't produce content with anything like that sort of frequency. I came from one which managed to put out all of one new episode (worth about 45 minutes of play time) every five or so months. The remainder of the time they run wall-to-wall recycled 'events' with a FOMO carrot on a stick reward to pad their login metrics. And they put the items their players want most in gambleboxes or £250 bundles, which contain a stack of additional fluff to justify inflating the price.

Focusing most of their resources on cash shop items is exactly why they produce so little playable content.

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The game could use some better fomo login events. Or just decent login events. The Moogle event is at least 2 closer to 4 weeks late. The items from the vendor aren't really that spectacular. I am not saying the patches can't be longer apart. The login event should have one emote, one mount, and gear set that is original to the event. have the items available for next login as well. Then they can move to cash shop like seasonal items.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

The game could use some better fomo login events. Or just decent login events. The Moogle event is at least 2 closer to 4 weeks late. The items from the vendor aren't really that spectacular. I am not saying the patches can't be longer apart. The login event should have one emote, one mount, and gear set that is original to the event. have the items available for next login as well. Then they can move to cash shop like seasonal items.

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XIV is literally incapable of doing the bare minimum. Doesn't even try to compete, it doesn't have to.

People are happy to AFK, they're overjoyed with the idea that they can AFK for weeks or months at a time. These are the happiest group of people, to be excited not to play the game they're paying a monthly sub for.


https://i.imgur.com/5VyXYTr.png
https://i.imgur.com/8HuXj7X.png

What this game needs is the retention content of Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands 1 to 1.

I mean, it didnt work for the WoW community and drove a lot of the playerbase but Im sure the FFXIV community will welcome these systems even if it costs players in the long run right?

As long as it keeps the endgame players happy right?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Ahh, the head fanfiction writer is back. I guess he really can't quit, he just keeps coming back.

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4chan brainrot

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Eureka and Bozja is absolute hot garbage though. Waiting around afk by the base for nms and engagements is not fun content.

Exploratory zones need to be better

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i completely and absolutely disagree with you

i really enjoy running around joining parties to set up nms, its very "listen to podcasts" activity to me, and more enjoyable way of doign a relic compared to the garbage with ARR/HW hyper grind

my only complaint is most jobs feel stinky at lvl70 and rather have my full kit, bozja having exp tied to things let me also level alt jobs since i personally dislike running dunegons back to back.

Fine if you dont like it, i dont really care. But i enjoyed it, and gives something for me to do between raid nights.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

i completely and absolutely disagree with you

i really enjoy running around joining parties to set up nms, its very "listen to podcasts" activity to me, and more enjoyable way of doign a relic compared to the garbage with ARR/HW hyper grind

my only complaint is most jobs feel stinky at lvl70 and rather have my full kit, bozja having exp tied to things let me also level alt jobs since i personally dislike running dunegons back to back.

Fine if you dont like it, i dont really care. But i enjoyed it, and gives something for me to do between raid nights.

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Yeah but I dont agree with your philosophy that the content was "good" or that it retained players. Like I said, the progression for it not only was it a chore and unfun but it can be done relatively quickly. The only good things about it were the instanced raids but the zones themselves suck eggs.

It needed to have a variety of outworld activities to do rather than moar FATE grinds.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah but I dont agree with your philosophy that the content was "good" or that it retained players. Like I said, the progression for it not only was it a chore and unfun but it can be done relatively quickly. The only good things about it were the instanced raids but the zones themselves suck eggs.

It needed to have a variety of outworld activities to do rather than moar FATE grinds.

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that was an improvment bozja made, the critical engament tier above generic fates had actual mechanics to them even if easy, more involved

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

that was an improvment bozja made, the critical engament tier above generic fates had actual mechanics to them even if easy, more involved

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True, but thats all there ever was with the exploratory content. Nothing else, no weekly quests, hunts, no outworld pvp, no outworld dungeons and lack of extra instanced dungeons. Just literally....beefed up FATES.

It was dumb

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Originally Posted by Kickwars

No it wasn't like this in HW and SB. It's like you guys don't even remember doing content anymore.

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Actually, it was worst during those times, believe me you will be sitting in Limsa for hours and hours on in. By the way, there was no DC travel and if you are not on a populated server or in a established FC, you were screwed unless you transferred. Mostly, it was the social bit that got many players through those times in fact the club scene came from those days.
Terrible state?!?! I think that OP and any of those ones that is complaining did not play 1.0 at all or any of the patches up to 2.4.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

i miss bozja and eureka, still go in there to piss around and make some money, neww deep is alright, but would like for more explore zones, or for open world to have more engaging fates like NM or engagments.

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The only difference between overworld FATEs and NM or engagments is the rewards you receive for them. That really is the only thing wrong with FATEs, they offer nothing you need after levelling. Bicolors were an alright idea but they don't buy very much that you actually want and a few weeks after release you don't need those anymore either. Part of the problem has become offering too many different things each having their own set of rewards, instead of maybe offering a few different ways to get the same currency and have access to a much larger set of rewards. Maybe have variant also offer up bicolors and then really put some effort into the things you can buy for them, instead of having their own shop that has next to nothing in it.

For all the unique features Endwalker advertised itself with, I liked one of them.

Ishgard Housing - Released broken, filled in a month, Questionable Lottery system that ignores core issues of the Housing system in the first place.
Island Sanctuary - Boring and Bare Minimum Right Click Spam
Variant Dungeon - Neat Lore Dump, Brainless one and done game play
Criterion Dungeon - Cool concept, Too hard (Normal Should be tagged as Savage), shit rewards.
Criterion (Savage) - Clone of Normal except with harder hitting mobs and an incredibly boring Overall-enrage mechanic, would prefer a unique fight and harder mechanics. (Also shit rewards)
Eureka Orthos - Heaven on Higher, if you like deep dungeons, you'll like this content, does not stand out from the other two in any meaningful way, its just another one.


In terms of whats left, 6.4 and 6.5 are likely going to be more of the same, I can't even think of anything standout left coming to Endwalker. We've seen all of it, whats left is more of the same.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

For all the unique features Endwalker advertised itself with, I liked one of them.

Ishgard Housing - Released broken, filled in a month, Questionable Lottery system that ignores core issues of the Housing system in the first place.
Island Sanctuary - Boring and Bare Minimum Right Click Spam
Variant Dungeon - Neat Lore Dump, Brainless one and done game play
Criterion Dungeon - Cool concept, Too hard (Normal Should be tagged as Savage), shit rewards.
Criterion (Savage) - Clone of Normal except with harder hitting mobs and an incredibly boring Overall-enrage mechanic, would prefer a unique fight and harder mechanics. (Also shit rewards)
Eureka Orthos - Heaven on Higher, if you like deep dungeons, you'll like this content, does not stand out from the other two in any meaningful way, its just another one.


In terms of whats left, 6.4 and 6.5 are likely going to be more of the same, I can't even think of anything standout left coming to Endwalker. We've seen all of it, whats left is more of the same.

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Okay then, so what do you want on 6.4 and 6.5? I am curious about this.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

It's always been like this. The "content" is socializing with people. If that's not for you, I suggest you try finding a new game or come back next patch.

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I don't know if you were being serious or sarcastic but honestly? The answer is right here in your post BluexBird. I don't understand why more people dont get that. Many MMORPG's today and MOST MMORPG's in the 2000's (and all of them before WoW) were sand box MMO's. The developers rarely did more than create a world, and give us characters to play with. The rest was up to players. And it was wonderful.

Final Fantasy XIV is IMO the best of both worlds. We have years of spoon fed story and side quests and currencies to farm if we choose. And the venues and emotes and clothes in the game are set up perfectly to encourage player generated content too.

Other players ARE content.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I don't know if you were being serious or sarcastic but honestly? The answer is right here in your post BluexBird. I don't understand why more people dont get that. Many MMORPG's today and MOST MMORPG's in the 2000's (and all of them before WoW) were sand box MMO's. The developers rarely did more than create a world, and give us characters to play with. The rest was up to players. And it was wonderful.

Final Fantasy XIV is IMO the best of both worlds. We have years of spoon fed story and side quests and currencies to farm if we choose. And the venues and emotes and clothes in the game are set up perfectly to encourage player generated content too.

Other players ARE content.

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And here we have it folks, the ultimate excuse for the devs bringing barely any content at all in the span of 5 months, other players apparently are content, so why have any content at all ? you can just talk with other players anyway, why do we even need dungeons and raids ? just put us in a square room and let us talk, that's content after all right ?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I don't know if you were being serious or sarcastic but honestly? The answer is right here in your post BluexBird. I don't understand why more people dont get that. Many MMORPG's today and MOST MMORPG's in the 2000's (and all of them before WoW) were sand box MMO's. The developers rarely did more than create a world, and give us characters to play with. The rest was up to players. And it was wonderful.

Final Fantasy XIV is IMO the best of both worlds. We have years of spoon fed story and side quests and currencies to farm if we choose. And the venues and emotes and clothes in the game are set up perfectly to encourage player generated content too.

Other players ARE content.

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This approach was forced to change and evolve when online communication stopped being novel. I do remember that era of MMOs, where guildmates would log in just to talk to each other, but now people sign into discord for that.

For the people left behind, I don't think your perspective is realistic or a healthy approach for the game as a whole. If other players are the content, but those other players are quitting because they have nothing to do and don't want to spend 15 a month on nothing (as happens every expansion), then your content evaporates with them. For example, if you're like me and enjoy queuing up for orbonne to watch people die, then yeah, the people dying is your content, but if the queue never pops because there's nobody playing or bothering to run that stuff, then the content is gone. It's better for Square to at least lift a finger and offer some reason to log in and play, for people who can't get enjoyment from RP venues or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

And here we have it folks, the ultimate excuse for the devs bringing barely any content at all in the span of 5 months, other players apparently are content, so why have any content at all ? you can just talk with other players anyway, why do we even need dungeons and raids ? just put us in a square room and let us talk, that's content after all right ?

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To some people it absolutely is content, its called VR chat. But no one is asking for that.

But we aren't in a square room just to chat are we? No one is advocating for that, even those like me who adore the social aspect of this and other MMORPG's. Otherwise I would just play a single player game. We do have many tank, healing, dps, crafting and gathering jobs. We have countless main story quests and side quests, exploratory zones, mounts minions, gear, and currencies to farm, extreme, savage, and ultimate raids etc. The core of Final Fantasy XIV "game" content still exists and there will certainly be much more of it in the future. But if we get more dance floors and things in that nature, thats obviously fine with a lot of the player base. T

heir content release schedule is still ahead of other AAA MMORPG's. Coming from WoW and some of the longest content draughts in an "on going subscription game" history, I just scratch my head when people complain about the content cadence in FFXIV. I think its great. Two years going and I still haven't ran out of things to do here and my alt character is only just about to start Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Namuh

This expansion has been really lackluster in terms of patches, there is literally nothing to do, and most of the stuff added is a joke.

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That isn't true in the least. Have you not been doing any of the content?

We have had 3 new beast tribes, 1 new GATE, new pvp arenas and rewards, 2 new map dungeons, 11 dungeons, 2 alliance raids, 5 extremes, 8 savage raids, 2 ultimates, 1 variant dungeon, 1 criterion/savage dungeon, a new deep dungeon which includes 70 high-end floors and island sanctuary.

We are set to get 4 more savage raids, 2 more variant/criterion/savage dungeon, new blue mage content likely including a reason to do level 70/80 raids, a new alliance raid, another ocean fishing route and all their associated reward grinds for people who want to do them more than once and more dungeons and extremes. And some other things like new cards to get and new sidequests.

There is nothing lackluster about all that at all.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

This approach was forced to change and evolve when online communication stopped being novel. I do remember that era of MMOs, where guildmates would log in just to talk to each other, but now people sign into discord for that. Hell, the MMO genre in general has aged considerably and most of its enjoyers have jobs now, which partially explains the shift from heavy grindset to more casualized system where you can even pay to skip certain inconveniences.

For the people left behind, I don't think it's a healthy approach for the game as a whole. After all, even utilizing your own perspective... if other players are the content, but those other players are quitting because they have nothing to do and don't want to spend 15 a month on nothing, then your content evaporates as well.

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Sorry if this ends up being a double post but im tired Lol. Maybe someday so many players will quit that even they are no longer content, but we are pretty far from that. I would cite the fact that Twitch and part finder are full of people at venues basically 24/7 So if I play this game for 5-10 years and it "runs out of players" well, thats a long time to play a game and I couldn't even be ad at that point.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Other players ARE content.

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Eeeh, I get what you're saying... but as much as you'll see me defend this game around these parts, and how frustrated I get with the average "Game Dead No Content" post... you're going too far here.

First of all, it's not the early 2000s. MMOs have come a long way, and if all you needed to have fun in an MMO was other people, 1.0 would have been a massive success. The game sure is an amazing social platform, and I agree that there's a lot of content people tend to ignore, and we can argue about people going no-life and finishing all content in a single day, but to say that other players are content is stretching it. Variant Dungeons are somewhat filling a gap left by HM Dungeons, and not only do I hope they become a staple of every patch, but I hope HM dungeons and Exploratory Zones make a comeback as well, and not instead of one or the other. I wish we had new job quests to do, to see how our friends are doing and experiencing small fun stories tied to our jobs outside of the MSQ that aren't Alliance and Normal raids.

It's gonna be my 10th year anniversary of playing this game in September. Are you telling me that expecting a few more dungeons and some story for each of my jobs is "asking for too much"?

Look, I get the forum tends to be rather unreasonable the other way with calling the game dead or whatever, but please don't take it to the other extreme end of the argument...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I don't know if you were being serious or sarcastic but honestly? The answer is right here in your post BluexBird. I don't understand why more people dont get that. Many MMORPG's today and MOST MMORPG's in the 2000's (and all of them before WoW) were sand box MMO's. The developers rarely did more than create a world, and give us characters to play with. The rest was up to players. And it was wonderful.

Final Fantasy XIV is IMO the best of both worlds. We have years of spoon fed story and side quests and currencies to farm if we choose. And the venues and emotes and clothes in the game are set up perfectly to encourage player generated content too.

Other players ARE content.

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The old sandbox games had armies of GMs that managed constant world events. We didn't just sit AFK at the bank 24/7.

Also, it's not that the people were content because we chatted, they were content because we got to kill and farm them.

FFXIV Dungeon: (Queue pop) > *silence* ... > (Finish)
Sandbox Dungeon: (Walk 20min to dungeon) > "We need to be quick, and get these mats, 'cause HAXORBUTTSLAMMER is comin' this way bro. Hurry up!" > (Whole party dies)

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Sorry if this ends up being a double post but im tired Lol. Maybe someday so many players will quit that even they are no longer content, but we are pretty far from that. I would cite the fact that Twitch and part finder are full of people at venues basically 24/7 So if I play this game for 5-10 years and it "runs out of players" well, thats a long time to play a game and I couldn't even be ad at that point.

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Yeah I guess the clubbing people will always have something to do, but people who want to actually enjoy the gameplay element of the video game are constantly left with a room full of stuff and no reason to do it. Which is fine for some people. For example, I'll run orbonne just for fun; I don't even care about the rewards. But if other people need a reward for their time then they'll refuse to do content that has no reasoning behind it, and suddenly my ability to do orbonne gets diminished. Orbonne is just one example, but it's not hard to see how it can affect other elements as well. Looking at recent content like variant dungeons. There's no real reason to go in there, so when I ask friends to go, most are like "bro, why" and when I queue up it fills about 50% of the time, and most often I just wind up soloing it. As someone who agrees that people make up a lot of the fun in an online game, soloing content isn't enjoyable to me. I need people to want to play the game so that I can enjoy playing the game with those people. The designers of this content control the incentives surrounding it, and they could do a better job in this area. It's especially disheartening when we get new content with recycled glams (manalis) or timegated loot (every alliance raid on release), because that just makes less people want to do it after a certain point, which makes it harder for weirdos like me to jump in and do that stuff for fun.

I'm rambling in circles but yeah tldr non-venue-goer here and people are my fun too but if se doesn't give them a reason to play the game then i cant have fun

Always has been, and always will be.

- Dungeons have always been corridor simulators and those that haven't been designed as such, were treated as such, nobody really ever went for optional doors/paths for rarer loot e.g., Manor Varnish. henceforth why dungeons like that no longer exist. Their direction is a result of how people have treated the dungeons historically. It's all well and good posting a screenshot of Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak, but realistically most people were following the exact same path every time and would always go directly to the route of the boss. Same with all those lovely optional rooms and areas of Sastasha.

- Eureka was OK but it was still just a zoned, and abysmally slow FATE simulator. Yes, it was good for socializing because 90% of the experience was farming sponge monsters to pop a FATE. It has nice parts, but tut regardless, is still abysmally designed. It was an empty, disappointing, and utterly lifeless husk for Anemos and Pagos. If anything my only complaint is that some of the mechanics in the latter Eureka zones and Bozjan zones should be core in some fashion to overworld, and not a luxury.

- Most issues advertised as being exclusive to Endwalker, have been very longstanding issues. e.g., housing has always been an issue and has gone through several iterations to try and stampede some issues. Remember their last cookie clicker attempt that had people clicking for hours on end in an unhealthy fashion and number of people auto-clicking / botting in an attempt to win a house?

-More spaced-out content, whilst we get less, yes, is not to provide for more content nor is it a vehicle for laziness. It's just simply providing a better work/life culture. If people cannot take holidays when they want them due to potentially unrealistic schedules then that is an issue.

The game has legit always been this way and people thinking otherwise are just looking at older expansions with rose-tinted glasses and hardly seeing the picture objectively.