Astro Rework 7.0. My Spidey Sense Is Tingling.

So I been thinking long and hard about this Astro rework. First I thought okay it’s probably about the cards but what about the cards they couldn’t change and implement in 6.2?

Then they hit us with the rework is so big that it must wait until 7.0. That’s when it hit me. What if the next caster because we know we’re getting a caster for 7.0. It’s almost guaranteed at this point. What if Astro and this new caster are connected somehow and they need to rework Astro to part it from this new caster?

Now you all might be thinking I’m crazy and yeah you may be right but stay with me. What if they are giving Astro this summoner level rework to remove the rest of the time aspects from Astro to implement Time mage as the new caster.

Now Time mage has been a top contender for a job that people has been asking for but then it’s always said that Astro is part time mage so it will never happen. In Shadowbringers they removed most of the time aspects from Astro and we only have what lightspeed left and their benefic spells basically is them reversing time on injuries and their LB is time related.

Though I am still on the Geomancer craze as the new caster I’m not counting out Time mage just yet.

What do you guys think? Can SE pull this off? Do you think this could be the reason Astro is getting this extensive rework? Could Time mage, a popular wanted job finally be making its debut as the new caster in 7.0?

At this point I don't trust that they could design their way out of a wet paper bag. But yes, cutting things from one job and presenting it as a brand new™ job is very much par for the course.

It would be really funny if AST had it's design pushed back to make space for a new job 2 times in a row.

But no, they're reworking AST since it's a tradition at this point, it's just simply getting a different flavor of bad. If it removes all the time-related elements, then that's just a side effect. One concern was that current AST is too busy, so I expect them to remove few healing buttons (Horoscope, Neutral Sect, Synastry, maybe Celestial Intersection), and then rework cards in such a terrible way that nobody could even imagine. Something like removing buffs from cards and making them heal instead. Astrodyne will give 5%/10%/15% healing potency and Minor Arcana will be somehow split into 3 buttons. Please look forward to it.

And they didn't delay rework from 6.3 to 7.0 because it was too big, it's another bullshit excuses they like, they just didn't expect 6.1 backlash to be this hard, so they gave us more time to cool off before they disappoint us once again.

Sorry for doomer take, but there is only pessimism left when it comes to job design.

I doubt that AST rework is linked to a new caster. As a number of people of pointed out, SE had a backlash related to DPS changes which they likely didn't predict. This coupled with their having no dedicated healer designer as well as having prior issues with AST rework likely made them rework some changes.

I very much doubt that that incorporated some dramatic changes to their AST rework, as Deo14 pointed out they still likely botched it, but perhaps it will not be as bad as what Deo14 is painting.

Or...dare I say...? They remove malefic, gravity, and any drawing aspect. *Le gasp*
And dare I say more...? ADD more heal buttons to an already bloated heal kit. *Le gasp 2.0*
(now you won't be busy cause all you ever do is "heal", if even that ;D)

-This is half joking but very well could be a possible future, look forward to it-

Also look forward to tanks and DPS getting more heal options for the party to replace us further.

I’m still going to hold out hope but from what all you guys said you all you may be right. We shall see!

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Originally Posted by fulminating

But yes, cutting things from one job and presenting it as a brand new™ job is very much par for the course.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I doubt that AST rework is linked to a new caster.

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Considering how many people have asked for Time Mage, guess where Time Dilation went?

Half joking aside, I would not be 100% surprised if AST did not get a single thing mains wanted back since Shb in some way, but its still 'passible' and as such, the rest of the player base tells us to quite down we "got what we wanted" despite the fact the devs are more tone deaf than me.

I have 0 hopes for 7.0. If anything them telling me AST is removed from the game and replaced with something else IS good news at this time.

All I want is a damn healer with a buffing system THAT ISN'T AROUND A CRAPPY 6% DAMAGE INCREASE be that for me (Astrodyne) or the party (5.0 Divination). WTF is so hard for them to understand that?

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

All I want is a damn healer with a buffing system THAT ISN'T AROUND A CRAPPY 6% DAMAGE INCREASE be that for me (Astrodyne) or the party (5.0 Divination). WTF is so hard for them to understand that?

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SE : Increased the Damage Buff of Divination to 7%

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

SE : Increased the Damage Buff of Divination to 7%

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Listen, unless Divination is worth 7% per card draw...

And even then it wouldn't be worth it.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Listen, unless Divination is worth 7% per card draw...

And even then it wouldn't be worth it.

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I don't see AST getting any better in 7.0. Hell, I have a sneaking suspicion that they're going to try and "salvage" the toolkit by making it almost identical to WHM.
Minor Arcana completely gone
Lord of Crowns being turned into AST's version of Assize
Lady of Crowns becoming fuel for Astrodyne to mimic Lilies and Misery
and the rest of the cards are virtually untouched because they don't need to touch them.

I pray I'm wrong but given the current trend of nuking a job to make it the most basic it can possibly be, it just sounds plausible enough that I could see it happening.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I don't see AST getting any better in 7.0. Hell, I have a sneaking suspicion that they're going to try and "salvage" the toolkit by making it almost identical to WHM.
Minor Arcana completely gone
Lord of Crowns being turned into AST's version of Assize
Lady of Crowns becoming fuel for Astrodyne to mimic Lilies and Misery
and the rest of the cards are virtually untouched because they don't need to touch them.

I pray I'm wrong but given the current trend of nuking a job to make it the most basic it can possibly be, it just sounds plausible enough that I could see it happening.

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Like I said at that point, telling me AST as a class has been removed from the game sounds like better news. /shrugs We'll see when 7.0 rears its head.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I don't see AST getting any better in 7.0. Hell, I have a sneaking suspicion that they're going to try and "salvage" the toolkit by making it almost identical to WHM.
Minor Arcana completely gone
Lord of Crowns being turned into AST's version of Assize
Lady of Crowns becoming fuel for Astrodyne to mimic Lilies and Misery
and the rest of the cards are virtually untouched because they don't need to touch them.

I pray I'm wrong but given the current trend of nuking a job to make it the most basic it can possibly be, it just sounds plausible enough that I could see it happening.

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>Astrodyne Removed
>Seals Removed
>Redraw Removed
>Minor Arcana Removed
>Draw 1 charge every 60 seconds.
>Pressing draw immediately plays a random card of 6 possible cards.
>Cards are all functionally the same. Buffs no longer vary depending on who recieves it.
>Cards are a 30yalm point blank aoe granting each player within it a 1%DPS buff for 15s.
>Cards also deal both damage to all enemies for 150 potency and heal allies for 300 potency.
>Divination is untouched.
>Fall Malefic II

Cards changed to be group-wide instead of targeted, and the buff adjusted as necessary. GCD heal costs increased to compensate for AST's significantly greater MP economy than WHM, range of heals adjusted (seriously, the range of AST's heals is an actual problem in P8S, especially for HC and NA), Undraw deleted, Draw\Play combined into one action.

There's your rework.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

Cards changed to be group-wide instead of targeted, and the buff adjusted as necessary. GCD heal costs increased to compensate for AST's significantly greater MP economy than WHM, range of heals adjusted (seriously, the range of AST's heals is an actual problem in P8S, especially for HC and NA), Undraw deleted, Draw\Play combined into one action.

There's your rework.

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You had me until Undraw deleted. SE will sooner remove Neutral Sect before they remove Undraw.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

You had me until Undraw deleted. SE will sooner remove Neutral Sect before they remove Undraw.

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I would strangely be ok with that.

I hope they buff the card system..cuz it's rather weak ( the 6%) ...should be 10-15%

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

I hope they buff the card system..cuz it's rather weak ( the 6%) ...should be 10-15%

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That would make sense if it was solo buffs,, I don't see why you see that it is "rather weak" when it is in a party setting. If an astro is in a competent party, it isn't weak. If however the astro is in a party that doesn't require healing but people aren't putting out DPS (missing rotation, movement issues, etc) then it's a party issue and the astro's castrated DPS set can't make up for anything.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

So I been thinking long and hard about this Astro rework. First I thought okay it’s probably about the cards but what about the cards they couldn’t change and implement in 6.2?

Then they hit us with the rework is so big that it must wait until 7.0. That’s when it hit me. What if the next caster because we know we’re getting a caster for 7.0. It’s almost guaranteed at this point. What if Astro and this new caster are connected somehow and they need to rework Astro to part it from this new caster?

Now you all might be thinking I’m crazy and yeah you may be right but stay with me. What if they are giving Astro this summoner level rework to remove the rest of the time aspects from Astro to implement Time mage as the new caster.

Now Time mage has been a top contender for a job that people has been asking for but then it’s always said that Astro is part time mage so it will never happen. In Shadowbringers they removed most of the time aspects from Astro and we only have what lightspeed left and their benefic spells basically is them reversing time on injuries and their LB is time related.

Though I am still on the Geomancer craze as the new caster I’m not counting out Time mage just yet.

What do you guys think? Can SE pull this off? Do you think this could be the reason Astro is getting this extensive rework? Could Time mage, a popular wanted job finally be making its debut as the new caster in 7.0?

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i wouldn't mind this IF and emphasis on IF they actually go harder into the astrology and card aspect of AST

I would unironically enjoy the card system to not require targeting party members to apply its buffs. I'd rather have every card be different in its effect but be a point blank aoe, buffing everybody around you, than the current iteration where you have to fumble back and forth between targeting the enemy and scrolling down the party list.

At least on PC, I don't find it difficult to set up the HUD so that it is easy to apply a buff then switch back to your target of interest.

AOE buff that are all different and potentially subject to RNG could be rather frustrating, depending upon what buff effects are available, the party composition and the scenario , not to mention if no change is made to buff effects when soloing.

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

i wouldn't mind this IF and emphasis on IF they actually go harder into the astrology and card aspect of AST

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Oh I’d love to hear more on what you think they should do with that aspect.

I recall Yoshi-P saying he wanted to implement an Onmyouji caster type of class which also deals with divination, cosmology and magic, but I don't see what they'd want to take from AST at this point (though, Square has been on a roll with making confusing decisions).
It might've been scrapped though since they're more occultish compared to AST, and they might've wanted it to be a dot-based cursing/debuffing type of class in place of SMN.

If there IS a new caster, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up stripping RDM instead and repurposing some part of their kit for the new class, but it's not something I look forward to anymore as they would end up not being distinguishable from the other casters (except our BLM overlords).

Look at how RPR turned out: it's a simplified version of DRG.
Sage is SCH without a healbot and buffs.

I'd rather them funnel the labor and budget of creating new jobs into expanding their design team since it's glaringly obvious they don't really care about expanding healer roles in this game.
We know there's a DRG rework that's gearing up for 7.0 too. I'm more curious how they're going to handle THAT.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Oh I’d love to hear more on what you think they should do with that aspect.

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1 thing for example arcana combinations instead of having seperate arcanas Major and minor allow us to use them for their seperate buffs or combine them for stronger buffs/effects for example lord and ewer grants +5% magic damage to the party (just an example but it's also why you can use them seperately cause for example if you have a SAM and NIN it might be more beneficial to just use the general buff and lord seperately).

it would be nice if we had more attacks/healing based on different draws or draw systems (a tarot deck comes to mind), like drawing death will make our next 3 malefics deal +10% damage renewal gives MP etc....

on the purely astrological side we need more "spacey/mythical" abilities maybe even abilities named and themed around the twelve like halones star sword shower an AOE ability that rains down astral swords on the target area. or nophicas feast cleanses all negative affects to all party members and has a cure potency of 400 (just an example)

there's more i could think of and fine tune with time but there's a few quick ideas

Here's the rework that will likely happen:
cards will now fill over time, you hold up to 3 cards they will give out GCD heals, you get two different cards one will heal for 800 on a single target, another that will heal all party members for 400 potency.
Once using 3 Cards you will gain a uh.. Afflatus Mis... I mean a " Afflatus Malefic!" Which will be equal to 4 Fall Fall Malefic potency. Don't worry! Divination Will now be a 10% raid buff on a 120 CD to make up for that and some other potency adjustments!

Also removed a lot of the the unique OGCD's, Essential Dignity now always heals a set amount!

My two cents, as a practical person and a thorough enjoyer of Stormblood AST. for me AST's main problem right now is the weaving nightmare it can become at times where you need to set up heals and throw out cards.

Make Draw and Play GCDs with reduced cast time (like dancer steps or ninja mudras). Same MP regen on Draw. Still two charges of Draw.
Return of Royal Road and just make it double the next card effect or duration for melee cards, and AoE cards for ranged cards. (perhaps a one minute CD on Royal Road)
Get rid of the Seals, but keep Astrodyne as a reflective self buff (perhaps MP regen if Draw is on CD, dmg and healing up if a card buff is up on the party)
Make Synastry work on Cards too.
I'd steal the idea of Eukrasia from sage to have an "Aspected" buff that turns Benefic / Helios into their aspected versions (and Malefic into Combust I guess) to help with button bloat. Otherwise, just merge Benefic I and II with Aspected Benefic, with both a direct heal and the regen.
Add back the buff duration up on Celestial Opposition. Bake in the single target version of this in Celestial Intersection I guess.

I'd be happy with this. More time magic, more card play, slightly less oGCD weaving and we keep the great healing CD setup.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

At this point I don't trust that they could design their way out of a wet paper bag. But yes, cutting things from one job and presenting it as a brand new™ job is very much par for the course.

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Exactly. When they talk about reworking healers--what they're probably saying is more homogenization, which is absolutely the worst thing they could possibly do to these watered down, overly basic, hollowed-out shells of what once were diverse, unique, and fun jobs.